Man I wish. the HTOB blew when I was putting it together, and I didn't have time to fix it before I left for boot camp, now the car is 600 miles away and very lonely...
ive heard you need to shim the master cyl, possibly your issue? what are your estimates?
ive heard you need to shim the master cyl, possibly your issue? what are your estimates?
I'm going to shim the HTOB instead of the master, I think my current HTOB blew from being hyper-extended, so shimming the master wouldn't fix anything...
I'm hoping for 450 whp, but we'll see, I'll probably have to fix a couple of other things before that's a reality.
I'd almost like to see what this thing could do N/a, with the porting, cam, and bottom end, I'd bet I'd be close to 300, but I think to get there I'd need a new set of headers. designed more towards an N/a build.
updates is the car itself Is in rough condition (as seen from some of the pics) im saving up to have turbo headers / Y / downpipe to be made, and move the whole engine over to the mint 88 I picked up...
I understand that you have to modify the 88 cradle for your engine?
No... what you are showing in those pics is removal of the exhaust hump in the forward cross-member for a 3900 LZ9, which would be similar to the 3500 LZ4 w/ VVT. The non-VVT 3500 LX9 requires no such modification.
I'm going to shim the HTOB instead of the master, I think my current HTOB blew from being hyper-extended, so shimming the master wouldn't fix anything...
I'm hoping for 450 whp, but we'll see, I'll probably have to fix a couple of other things before that's a reality.
I'd almost like to see what this thing could do N/a, with the porting, cam, and bottom end, I'd bet I'd be close to 300, but I think to get there I'd need a new set of headers. designed more towards an N/a build.
I don't understand why shimming the HTOB is considered a proper fix... The Fiero clutch master has a bigger bore than the Sunfire/Cavalier master. I believe the problem is that the Fiero master tries to move more fluid than the F23 HTOB can handle. It's not like the HTOB NEEDS to overextend in order to properly disengage the clutch. In fact, on my car the clutch disengages within a 1/3 of pedal travel, and that's with the master cylinder shimmed about 3/4" from the firewall. The 2.2 clutch system protrudes the same distance from the bellhousing as the 60*V6 clutch system. Therefore the distance is the same as a factory F23 setup. Although a HTOB shim may have the desired function, it sounds like it relies on bottoming out the pressure plate to stop pedal travel... which sounds silly to me. Shimming the Fiero master cylinder away from the firewall should basically bring the setup closer to that of a Sunfire/Cavalier. It's also the easiest method to get the desired result out of the three common methods I've seen (pedal stop, HTOB spacer, or master cylinder shimming).
OTOH, a HTOB spacer does make sense for a V8 swap where an adapter plate is used in order to make up for the extra distance.
If you measure the differences in the bell housings and clutch spacing for the HTOB you will find the F23 is approx .25 inch deeper then the Fiero manual tranny this is why the need for the spacer to make up the difference. Dan
No... what you are showing in those pics is removal of the exhaust hump in the forward cross-member for a 3900 LZ9, which would be similar to the 3500 LZ4 w/ VVT. The non-VVT 3500 LX9 requires no such modification.
Well that good to know for the LX9 install. I understood it was because of it being an 88 cradle. Thanks for the clarification.
I don't understand why shimming the HTOB is considered a proper fix... The Fiero clutch master has a bigger bore than the Sunfire/Cavalier master. I believe the problem is that the Fiero master tries to move more fluid than the F23 HTOB can handle. It's not like the HTOB NEEDS to overextend in order to properly disengage the clutch. In fact, on my car the clutch disengages within a 1/3 of pedal travel, and that's with the master cylinder shimmed about 3/4" from the firewall. The 2.2 clutch system protrudes the same distance from the bellhousing as the 60*V6 clutch system. Therefore the distance is the same as a factory F23 setup. Although a HTOB shim may have the desired function, it sounds like it relies on bottoming out the pressure plate to stop pedal travel... which sounds silly to me. Shimming the Fiero master cylinder away from the firewall should basically bring the setup closer to that of a Sunfire/Cavalier. It's also the easiest method to get the desired result out of the three common methods I've seen (pedal stop, HTOB spacer, or master cylinder shimming).
OTOH, a HTOB spacer does make sense for a V8 swap where an adapter plate is used in order to make up for the extra distance.
I planned to take some measurements to see for sure where I need to be. the reason why I think the HTOB needs to be shimmed on my car is because I never got a real pedal at all before it blew, I am assuming that it blew because it was already partially extended, and when it did start to build pressure, it just blew past. the only way I will know for sure is to pull it apart, which I plan to do here soon. I barely got a pedal feel at all with mine, and I every clutch I have ever bled had way more feel then that did.
I may end up shimming the master as well, or because I have one of Rodney's master with the adjustable banjo, thread the pushrod further and cut it down to limit the travel. we'll see when I get it apart. do you have measurements for the sunfire slave cylinder? (bore and stroke)
Did you ever complete your exhaust? If so, pictures please. I'm thinking about doing it like Fiero Factory did the 4.9L install I sold. Cat straight down and "T" out to tips.
that would work if your running the 3400 manifolds, but they are 'restrictive' to the 3500, I have 2 front 3500 manifolds's on my swap (still no exhaust minus some 'flex' pipe, I was going to run the front manifold around and out like the stock exhaust, then Y in the rear manifold to just before where the exhaust turns to go into the muffler, Ive seen a few LS swaps setup that way.
*now* when I move it to my 88, its going to have 2 log manifolds, Y into a turbo, then follow factory exhaust pathway out.
is it possible to use the fiero clutch with the f23? what needs to be done to the linkage?
some Fiero clutches work, some don't. when I take mine back apart, I'm going to swap to a clutch made for the F23.
there really isn't a linkage with the F23, it uses a HTOB inside the transmission, whereas the fiero trans uses an external slave, pushrod, fork and conventional TOB. you might be able to adapt the F23 to a ext slave, but I don' think it'd be worth it.
------------------ we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...
some Fiero clutches work, some don't. when I take mine back apart, I'm going to swap to a clutch made for the F23.
there really isn't a linkage with the F23, it uses a HTOB inside the transmission, whereas the fiero trans uses an external slave, pushrod, fork and conventional TOB. you might be able to adapt the F23 to a ext slave, but I don' think it'd be worth it.
ment the shift linkage :P was reading one thread, they used a new cable made a special bracket?
I built my own linkage, with a set of new izuzu cables, I plan to re-do it though with the cables coming in from a different angle. I can post pics if you would like.
The best shift cable setup seems to be a Getrag select cable and F23 swap shift cable from California push-pull. The F23 swap shift cable is more-or-less a Getrag select cable made thicker and with longer ends.
The best shift cable setup seems to be a Getrag select cable and F23 swap shift cable from California push-pull. The F23 swap shift cable is more-or-less a Getrag select cable made thicker and with longer ends.
this really depends on how you set it up, but that is the way most are doing it.
