im not ragging on your ride; quit putting your negativity on my comments(and it's you who dislikes talking about death(i accept i'm going to die someday, just hoping someone like you doesn't do it)), don't infer what someone says as angery, it's the internet(typed words don't have feelings attached to them).
and what i might say might make it so you and everyone around your car is safe(PLAYING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE); saving you money(americans are sue happy) because your insurence might be invalid do to some mod(s) that you do.
You TYPE and say there are no emotions, but you certainly imply them.
Due to having no family other than my mom, (who passed on in 1998) I have ALWAYS been cautious. I dont need a devils advocate. In fact, everytime I prepare to work on a car I read every book I have on what it takes to remove, repair, or figure out how to fix what I have to do.
There was NEVER anyone to help me, or give advice (BEFORE the internet). so I HAD to force myself to get a repair (I never done before) completed
You think what I'm doing now is unsafe???
I've had totally STOCK vehicles that I've NEVER modified, kept maintained, and STILL had a brakeline burst from RUST,a tie rod that was worn out, rear leaf- spring break through the floor, they were just plain OLD cars.
Happenstance can come at ANY TIME, WITHOUT doing anything wrong.
[This message has been edited by sunofjustice (edited 12-05-2010).]
Oy vey, that was fun. (Not.) Anywho, we're moving ONWARD and UPWARD,mates.... less talk, MORE pix.
My plans for the interior were to remove any unneeded dead weight, but, keep the interior decent looking, and LIVEABLE.
To accomplish this goal, I used ALOT of polyethylene foam, and a bit of polyehellen remnant foam. (Door liners, new shifter console.)
The new console has a USABLE utility box made from a plastic drawer I cut and glued together. For the box to fit (and to remove some weight), I had to modify the skeleton.
Although its very light, I tried to keep the charcoal polyehellen,remnant foam to a minimum. Its very STIFF and will keep the new shifter console from FLEXING underneath.
The utility box/armrest did'nt have hinges yet. It was just temporarily taped up until the FINAL fitment of the new shifter console
The squares on the lid of the box were added to remove some onces. Light gauge aluminum was used to help seal the ends. Automotive "goop" (AWESOME product!) was employed to seal it all.
Originally, I wanted the utility box to be of an OPEN design. Unfortunately, the box would cave in under the weight of me simulating leaning on it.
According to my notes, (which are confusing me to no end) I got 5 onces off the skelly from removing two skeleton brackets. A total of 8 onces (half a pound).
I could have gotten even MORE weight off the skeleton by drilling holes in it. But, the dremmel is pretty LOUD and I try to be considerate of my neighbors in the building. (Plus, that burnt plastic was annoying as all get out.)
After walking up and down the stairs fifty bajillion times, (the apartment is on the second floor) the fitment of the new shifter console was FINALLY making progress.
The photos of the NEW shifter console, doors, and computer cover will be shown as they currently are. (Some of the pix for these are still missing.)
Heres a quick look at the door handle modifications.
Initially, '91 astro handles were to be used, but the configuration and weight of 'em was'nt light enough. So, the stock handles were cut off, and flat aluminum bar stock was incorporated.
I added an inch or two for MORE leverage. Door opens with a nice, light pull. Success!
First fitment of new lightweight shifter console, (or what I refer to as command control central)
I thought about using poly carbonate for the upper deck of the console, but I read somewhere that you cant paint it. There IS tinted , mars resistant lexan.......for a price. At the time, the price of .25 gauge aluminum was exorbitant, so .16 gauge aluminum was incorporated instead. At first I used velcro so the aluminum could be EASILY swapped out later for something better. But it still left some gaps. The aluminum was then glued in later on.
Heres are some pics of the lightweight, blower bilge fan installed.
Weight was 8-9 onces, versus 5 pounds for the stocker. This sucker pushes 240 CFM, at 4.5 amps 12volts DC. It's loud, but works very well.
It took me some considerable time to figure out WHAT to use for a door grab handle.
At first, I thought about just a simple leather, or clothe pull strap.
Then I realized that the ones on my fridge were the PERFECT shape and size! So, I went to lowes to inquire about them. A new door sill revision was made to house the new grab handles. (They're REALLY light, 1 1/2 onces each.) Heres a pic......
Theres still a little more detail work to do, but its quasi presentable.
Total weight of NEW door covers, roughly 2lbs. Total weight of OLD door covers, roughly 17 lbs.
Only a suggestion, but you could lose some elbows by converting to a bumperpad notchie. It may have been discussed already. This thread is gaining more weight due to activity. I just cant keep up.
I doubt the spare tire tub does anything for aerodynamics. If anything, it obstructs airflow from the radiator fan. Here are a couple photos of an IMSA Fiero race car. Notice the lack of any "spare tire tub like structure" in the front end.
If a race car doesn't need a spare tire tub for aero, then a street car definitely does not.
I think that's a little different situation, there's essentially nothing even remotely similar about that IMSA to what a totally stock Fiero has.
The pan is supposed to help channel air coming from the radiator to go under the car which then gets sucked up through the engine compartment and extracted through the engine vents. I believe I was told this by Ed Parks.
In this case, you can clearly see that the IMSA has it's firewall channeled so that the air deflects away from the center and out underneath the sides of the side fenders.
Not saying it makes a huge difference, but if you're going to channel air INTO the front of the car, you've got to make a way for it to escape, otherwise it will increase your drag co-efficient. This is something that I assume would be important to him. What he could do is have the air coming through the radiator, get extracted straight through the hood like a lot of mid-engine cars have...
I mean... honestly, it's not going to mean the difference between 15s and 13s... but every little bit helps. If you're going to replace the center console with something made of styrofoam, then this is probably something you would be concerned with.
Hi flo filter 0HP (Versus paper) Your engine can not even come close to pulling more than 5% of the capacity of a DIRTY stock paper filter. Whoever told you a high flow filter does anything knows nothing about the subject. I actually measured this stuff. there is ZERO gains in a fiero by using a K&N or other brand "high flow" filter. Sparkplug side gapping 0.1HP Sparkplug indexing <1hp NGK copper core plugs 0HP There is not one spark plug on this planet that will give you more HP. none. Power pulley 2-3HP Synthetic engine oil 1HP Windage tray .1-1HP
Those are correct real numbers. What you had listed were what the ricers try to throw around and have no basis in reality.. Dont listen to guys on those forums.
Want ponies? Port the Exhaust logs for 5-6HP real gain Port the Y pipe for another 1-3HP Free Flow Exhaust system another 1-3HP put the air intake back to stock will give you more gains than ANY modification. the stock V6 intake is better than even a $2400 Honda CAI setup.
Better intake, like a Truelo will give a real gain. Real headers will give a real gain. an engine in top shape and not worn out, will also give a real gain... How many miles on your engine? what are the compression numbers? Is the engine in perfect shape, well maintained and in perfect tune? real HP gains are right there, make sure you are getting max HP at your current setup.
If you want CHEAP and easy HP, then put in a wet nitrous system. next cheapest is a low boost 6psi turbo.
Honestly, you need to work with real numbers and not the fantasy numbers you will find on other forums. It gives you a big disappointment when you discover that the promised gains are all a lie.
I agree that any air coming into a vehicle, to help cool it off, is a good thing.
I also agree that any air coming into a vehicle, that is properly regulated and utilized, is a good thing. (The FORMER is just more FUN.)
Here's an idea that might have merit.
How about installing......... a boxed aluminum (or plastic) "wind channel" placed BEFORE and AFTER the radiator, kept at an angle with little or NO restriction on the very end of said system (hood vent, louvers). It could help reduce (or cancel ) any LIFT incurred by the stock, belly breather configuration.
Some questions come to mind though.......
Question (1): would this idea create ANY form of usable downforce? (A little of this could help stabilize the lighter front end.)
Question (2): anyone install an air dam of some sort, and notice improved HIGHSPEED stability? If so, please post a pic of its design.
even though the expected horsepower numbers are washed down, ONE more horsepower is better than NONE.
Even though K/N ticks me off for not coming up with MORE innovations the past two decades, at least its WASHABLE. The paper clogs up, you throw it away.
Sparkplug indexing - 1hp
power pulley - 2-3hp
synthetic oil - 1hp
ported exhaust logs - 5-6 hp (even though my engine has headers.)
sprint headers - 7-8 hp (?) (guesstimate)
y-pipe restriction deleted 1-3 hp
Roughly 10 to 15 horses. (Although headers are usually 15hp by themselves.)
Regardless, thats ALMOST half of the needed forty horsepower. (using 140 hp as baseline.)
The 2.8 is a new remanufactured engine with under 20,000 miles. (Runs perfectly,no smoke, did'nt do a compression check though)
Nitrous (the bottle is for babies), I dont care for. No matter how small a shot you're spraying, it puts a tremendous LOAD on the pistons, rings, and crank of a stock engine. (Just a matter of time before it blows.)
Besides, you always have to keep REFILLING the bottle.
No offense, but a 6 psi turbo on a stock engine is gonna cause the SAME problems. Plus, cost ALOT more to install, tune, and maintain.
Then theres the HEAT issuses, and the extra WEIGHT.
If I was VERY lucky, and got a motorcycle turbo off of "flea bay", ran the boost no higher than 2-4 psi, ran colder plugs and a 2 bar map sensor (or was it 3?) MAYBE the engine would hold together enough for a season or two. (Big maybe.) Almost forgot the mandatory PREMIUM gas penalty.
I'll have to do a search on it again, but what about HP for a dual throttlebody???
How much power for a BIGGER t. body? (Like a tunedport)
Again, I'm not trying to offend you sir, or anyone here. I just dont want to be pigeon holed with "pro IN box thinking". Theres gotta be something overlooked that could unlock some additional HP.
so how exactly was i goating you? please do tell i'd love to hear in detail how i was goating you(that offends me)
the actual saying is "it feels like 10hp per 100lbs lost" all that means is that it's pushing less weight around.(and this comes from the 2ton car era) your engine doesn't magicly gain 40hp(like in stupid video games).
speaking of weight, most of it is off the front is it not; i wonder how much you front end has gone up and your track narrowed(both making it worse to drive); i want you to take it on the highway and report back.
but for the most part your attempt to go faster cheaper, would be better server reducing areodynamic drag (horsepower requirement is squared for the speed you want to travel), considering the fiero takes 15hp or more to achieve 55mph guess how much hp is required to get up to 100mph(that's with the stock cd; yours probably has the areodynamic drag of a ram 1500)
straighten out the airflow underneith and over the top(meaning get rid of all the grills you don't need) will increase hp more than losing weight
i still think it is fool hardy for the way your doing things and that you probably get the shittest fuel economy out of anyone on here, i'm betting it numbers in the single digits
ps. if i wanted to goat you, you gave everyone enough fodder
pss. 1984 fiero sport coupe, say what you will(i could careless, considering you've already spewed every common bit of info anyone and everyone knows for no reason at all)
and sorry you have a freedom of speech problem(and if any of this offends you; you might want to read more, and attack people less)
that last post you made is funny; you remind me of every newb on the jeep forums looking for something anything that is a golden shot in the arm for the 4.0l and the 2.5l; and won't take no for an answer justifying the money spent on snake oil saying it gives them more power at any cost simply because it cost them money. and the people who say the exact stuff you do here on; that forum eventually figure out that the experts know what the their talking about or leave in frustration
oh, yeah and that forum has more teeth(this is a nice forum)
[This message has been edited by baldlobo (edited 12-08-2010).]
and for spark plug indexing its less than 1 that's what that arrow means
oh, and to blow your mind, weather your tires are inflated properly or not can effect your power output more than what you've added, let alone wind, atmospheric pressure changes, temperature changes
and that's 140 or 135 depending on what your reading is at the flywheel
[This message has been edited by baldlobo (edited 12-08-2010).]
so was the remanufactured engine that was put in was it remanufactured to the specs of the one that was orignally in the fiero or was it a generic reman?(the 2.8l came in at least 10 different vehicals with varring horsepower figures)
If the car loses 270 pounds, easy to do the way he is going, that is 10% of the total body weight. That is a huge improvement and can be felt and measured, if he started with a baseline. Since he already knows what the car feels like, he will notice an improvement. Not everyone has to measure and record everything to have success. I gained significant lap time improvements by doing nothing other than removing weight. Removing door bars and bumpers is not a smart thing to do, but cosmetics in the interior or comfort items like AC are just dead weight unless you want them.
You can have the best aerodynamics in the world, and they won't do a darn thing until you get to highway speeds. Weight loss is all about GETTING TO highway speeds. Don't confuse the two. I am starting to play with the aerodynamics now that my car is at the weight and balance point where it will be staying. Trying to mess with aerodynamics when there are easier gains to make like weight loss is a waste of time. On the street, while accelerating from a stop, aerodynamics make virtually no difference.
Saying the original air cleaner is better than a $2400 Honda system because of a 20 year old Herb Adams article is,,,,, well,,, do you believe everything you read? Herb did not account for the weight loss. We did not even have washable filters (readily available) 20+ years ago. The OE setup weighs a lot more than virtually any aftermarket setup and is more restrictive than most newer setups. Although, the Fiero restriction is the intake, not the air cleaner. If the intake restriction is not removed, changing, or removing, the air cleaner will not make a difference because it did not meet its capacity. That is about all that the old article proved.
A Truleo with a single throttle body would be a big improvement over stock. There is no reason, other than looks, for a dual throttle body on a 2.8 as you just can't use that much air.
After the weight loss is done, THEN it makes sense to cut the springs or change them. There is no reason to cut them as you go (as long as the weight loss is a ongoing thing) until you know exactly how much the front of the car will weigh. I had to cut mine twice so far and will likely do it one more time, now that my car is about as light as it will ever be.
I already added my 2 cents about the air dam issues earlier.
Why does everyone keep hammering sonofjustice? I honestly have not seen any out of the way comments from him, but I HAVE seen at least 2 attacks on him.
This is my only subscribed thread right now. Don't get discouraged SoJ, I'm enjoying this read.
It's his car, inputs good, correcting numbers is helpful, but attacking him for methods you feel is incorrect or downright stupid, leave it at home. this is one of the most friendly forums I've ever been apart of. Keep it that way
I agree that any air coming into a vehicle, to help cool it off, is a good thing.
I also agree that any air coming into a vehicle, that is properly regulated and utilized, is a good thing. (The FORMER is just more FUN.)
Here's an idea that might have merit.
How about installing......... a boxed aluminum (or plastic) "wind channel" placed BEFORE and AFTER the radiator, kept at an angle with little or NO restriction on the very end of said system (hood vent, louvers). It could help reduce (or cancel ) any LIFT incurred by the stock, belly breather configuration.
Some questions come to mind though.......
Question (1): would this idea create ANY form of usable downforce? (A little of this could help stabilize the lighter front end.)
Question (2): anyone install an air dam of some sort, and notice improved HIGHSPEED stability? If so, please post a pic of its design.
Honestly, because of the length of all the cooling pipes on the Fiero, it's actually impossible to make a Fiero overheat UNLESS the system isn't functioning properly, or wasn't burped properly.
My 1987 Fiero SE / V6, when it was totally stock, had about 70k miles on it, and ran flawlessly (perfect tune-up)... it used to sit at the 1/4 mark.
I would start my car, and let it idle to warm up. Once the car warmed up, you could literally let it sit there in park, in a parking spot, in idle... and the temperature gauge would never get past the 1/4 mark, and the fan would NEVER kick on. It would do this all day, even in 100 degree ambient temperature with 90%+ humidity in South Florida.
I don't have capacity numbers, but I would be very surprised if I was wrong to say that the Fiero had at least a gallon more coolant capacity than say, your average FWD Oldsmobile Cutlass of the same year with a 2.8 V6. You basically have four cooling tubes running along the entire length of the car. You have one on each side for the radiator / engine, and then you have two which run down the center to the passenger side of the gas tank that feeds the heater core. Not to mention that the radiator in the Fiero is not a small one. I don't know how many cores it is... if it's even more than 1 core, but it's not a small radiator.
So cooling is never really an issue if everything is functioning properly... really, the engine doesn't NEED air flowing under it to be "extracted" through the engine vents. I would guess the only real reason for that is for the longevity of everything else... hoses, ignition components, etc. They aren't getting the typical air flow that you would otherwise get if everything was mounted in the front of the car.
As for the aerodynamics of it all... the aero-bodied cars (which yours is), already comes with a "wind channel" going towards the radiator. When the Fiero rolled off the showroom floor, it would have come with heavy rubber sheeting that basically encloses and seals off any air that comes into the nose portion of the front air dam, and funnels it into the radiator. Of course, it's not perfect... but this rubber sheeting basically attaches to the bottom inside center of the nose, and tries to seal it off and channel this air directly towards the radiator. There is also a lower air dam that skims the bottom of the front of the Fiero, which also channels this air towards the radiator (or actually, the A/C condensor if so equipped).
These rubber sheets I mentioned are also attached to plastic ducting / brackets which also seal off the area from the condensor to the radiator. All the air then gets channeled in towards the fan opening. From there, it gets pushed in three directions, to the left and to the right which extract under the wheel well areas, but unfortunately... can also create pressure in the headlight buckets which cause people to have their headlights pop-up above 100+ miles an hour. For me... I've always made sure that all of this duct work and everything else was always COMPLETELY intact on my car. I've been upwards of over 120 miles an hour a few times in my Fiero when I was younger (and more stupid) and never had my headlight covers pop-up even once. Anyway, the rest of the air gets channelled under the spare tire area and down the center and sides of the Fiero's underbelly.
Many mid-engine race cars, or the ones that did well actually... often have the air from the radiator just chanelled and extracted directly through the hood. If done right, I suppose this could make the entire thing function like a big front spoiler... but it would probably have little, if any affect on aerodynamics unless you planned to go over 100+ miles an hour, and if that was the case, I'd recommend you look into some good suspension components and life insurance.
I'm hardly even quasi-knowledgeable on any of this stuff... I just know that you don't want to create "pockets" anywhere in the air flowing around or through your car. The best way to give you more downforce and better high-speed handling is to make the car as low to the ground as possible. Lotus did this in the 70s with their F1 cars by using side skirts. This prevented any air from flowing under the car, which essentially created a vacuum and helped it get sucked down to the ground (not to be confused with the F1 vacuum car... heh).
How were you "goating", or is it GOADING me? Barring the similarities, let me break it down for you.
In a nutshell, you pretty much said I'll KILL EVERYONE around me, I'll go to jail, lose my car, and get BURIED (?) in it. (Dont know how THATS going to happen if they take the vehicle away.) OH yeah, and lets not forget the little quip .... "your over-roof scoops are ugly as sin..." (Most folk would be MORE civil, and say something like....."I dont care for them, or I'm not a big fan of....." yada yada.)
Who would'nt notice such a ham fisted, slight like that and not detect any sort of umbrage?
Plus, WHERE are the photos of your car, sir???
You asked for that hood pix just so you could harp some more Ralph Naderish rhetoric on my thread, why dont you Quid pro que and give us something to nit pick on as well.
In a round about fashion, Your statements most assuredly implied my death , EVERYONE around me would be taking a dirt nap as a direct result of me, and that you REALLY,REALLY REALLY DONT like my modifications. Oh yeah, I should DIE too.
This has NOT been a one time occurance.
I also understand the meaning of freedom of speech. But, this phrase IS a double edged sword with a caveat attached. Meaning, you will hear everything even if you DONT want to hear it.
Baldlobo, you say I'm afraid of talking about death??? You are speaking to the choir, dear chap.
Thinking about passing on due to some freak occurance is a given......... (IE: eating bad food, furnance blowsup,falling down stairs, semi kicks off a retread, idiot with celly texting, people dropping heavy crap off overpasses, the roof of the overpass just FALLS off due to age (both of these are quite common in Michigan) especially if ANYONE was a God fearing and cautious person, (like myself) they would'nt NEED a devils advocate.
It is VERY redundant, and tedious to have to keep addressing something I am ALREADY very aware of.
[This message has been edited by sunofjustice (edited 12-08-2010).]
Baldlobo, I ALREADY mentioned that the weight loss would SIMULATE the equivalent of 40HP without engine work. You're taking what I said OUT of context by implying the weight loss would "majically" produce horsepower.
I also stated, that ADDING more horsepower will be factored into the weight reduction agenda.
It is relatively CHEAPER to start taking pounds OFF, versus trying to find the MONEY to accomplisf the former.
If you went back to the fifties, or sixties to reference the "it feels like 10 horsepower if you remove a hundred pounds", try going back to the forties where the EARLY hotrodders COMMONLY took FENDERS, and HOODS OFF to reduce weight.
(Some cars are fashioned like this and are DRIVEN to our DREAM CRUISE annually.)
Baldlobo, do you even READ the responses given in reply, or should I just IGNORE your statements like you have done with me???
Plus, i thought you were "done" and wished me a good life. (Even though I'm supposed to be "dead and buried in my car".
you said you used your STOCK temp. gauge, and STOCK fan OS to monitor the coolant temp. whilst the car sat and idled? (Stock gauges can LIE, I had an autometer gauge when I did my test.)
Even though I had forgotten what the ACTUAL fan kick in temp was (I said 220, when it was 235) that temp is tantamount to boiling, and should be AVOIDED. Especially, n this day and age. IMO (I still suspect this was a possible planned obselence.)
The main culprit of my cars overheating was that I used the TRADITIONAL way of timing (set computer, use #1 sparkplug, reset.)
It was'nt untill I used the coil wire method, that I saw vast improvement in cooling, and performance. (Thank you PFF.)
As far as aero dynamic drag, and the engine gets cooled by this and that jargon, I'm not really overly concerned about this right now. EVERYTHING done for weight reduction is early ground work. Its ALOT of work, and most of my substitutions have to be CONSTANTLY reevaluated AFTER driving the car. In other words...... I'm NOT done yet!
If anything, I'm TRYING to work with everybody here and come to a happy medium that accomplishs my goal, and quite down the naysayers and hecklers somewhat. Geesh. that adage about " you cant please everybody all of the time..." sure DOES keep coming to light.
Anyway, The GT aero nose already has a drag coefficent of 0.35. (This is WAY better than the first years who averaged 0.41.)
The over roof scoops will be removed for weight, and some CUSTOM vents will be made up to temporarily replace them. (the over all design COULD be more svelt.)
I'm thinking about eventually coming up with something more streamlined, and is'nt a PITA when I need engine bay service room. But, the vents ARE light so they will be of priority.
I rechecked my posts, and I ALREADY mentioned that the air coming through the radiator would create some lift as well as TURBULANCE. I'm just proposing a more CONTROLED form of radiator entering and exiting that MIGHT provide some ECONOMICAL residual downforce.
[This message has been edited by sunofjustice (edited 12-08-2010).]
my posts were to get your attention, and draw attention to what your doing, because by your own word you do a touch and go; any forethough go into what your doing or removing. and yes i don't think what your doing is good for your car(let alone what else i've said)
do you know the wording "due care and attention"
hey scca, is your purpose built fiero driven on public roads? or trailered?
No offense, but a 6 psi turbo on a stock engine is gonna cause the SAME problems. Plus, cost ALOT more to install, tune, and maintain.
Then theres the HEAT issuses, and the extra WEIGHT.
If I was VERY lucky, and got a motorcycle turbo off of "flea bay", ran the boost no higher than 2-4 psi, ran colder plugs and a 2 bar map sensor (or was it 3?) MAYBE the engine would hold together enough for a season or two. (Big maybe.) Almost forgot the mandatory PREMIUM gas penalty.
I dig this thread, and I want you to know that I'm not just trying to be a douche and slam you...
BUUTTTTT..... Me thinks you know next to nothing about turbos 'n' stuff... Again, not to slam, everyone has a lot of learning to do, nobody starts with knowledge of internal combustion engines out of the womb... Just wanted to point out that a properly designed and tuned turbo setup at only 6 pounds of boost on a stock engine in good working order shouldn't be an issue. You aren't running crazy high compression and you have low miles on a reman. engine. Also, your bit about premium needs to be thought out a bit better I think. Turbos(done properly) effectively improve the efficiency of the engine. You MAY see an improvement in MPG when you aren't hot rodding. Say 7.5 gallons to fill up from E, at 20 cents a gallon extra for premium. That is a wallet-busting $1.50 extra per fill-up. Even if premium is 40 cents more, an extra $3 a fill is negligible next to the power gains you would see.
Now back to weight loss.. I have to say get rid of the roof scoops and the spoiler. They may look nice, but they do precisely nothing for performance, so you are adding several pounds and measurable drag for the sake of cosmetics. Just my .02...
Keep it up though, its cool to see someone pushing the Fiero diet limits...
you asked how much has the front end went up after the weight loss?
Are you referring to RIDE HEIGHT, or are you asking about front end lift?
BOTH are consider moot points right now since the car is NOT finished!
Never the less, there would'nt be much of either since most of the weight was taken from the MIDDLE of the car, and not just the front. In fact, I have taken some significant weight off the REAR as well. But, certain individuals with hood fetishes wont let me post the info without having to REPEAT myself over, and over again.
Furthermore, only 230 something pounds has been removed. (Roughly the weight of a person) Unless I had REALLY,REALLY BAD front springs, I doubt if there was ANY really significant ANTI ride height characteristics. I have adjustable coilovers on the front, and koni, kyb struts on the rear. My car sits VERY low right now.
The car is NOT done yet, the interior is my first try and its NOT done either (some materials I want to swap, some I dont.) and theres still MORE areas of the car that could use lightening, but I want to use BETTER materials before I attempt.
This is proto typing, a tedious ONGOING PROCESS. theres alot of trial and error. ONE step at a time. Also, if you try to anticipate any modification that may fail, you can EASILY take steps to PREVENT such from transpiring.
Lastly, the crap you said about tire pressure affecting horsepower is NOT a matter of precedence. (Theres a greenhorn statement If I ever heard one.) If anything, tire pressure affects MPG alot more so. Drag racers compromise their tire pressure at the DRIVE wheels to attain further traction, even when they are seriously concerned about horsepower.
P.S. Snakeoil?
Who HAS'nt bought a supposedly performance oriented product at least once or twice due to MISLEADING advertisement. (Marketing Is the devil) Most of the simple horsepower tips I mentioned DID'NT come from the internet. They came from the COUNTLESS hotrod, carcraft, popular hotrodding etc. mag rags that hype this and that due to there sponsorship.
these tips have been seen in my hard cover books as well, (david vizard hotrodding,cant remember title book is misplaced somewhere, and the 1001 hotrodding tips and tricks book as well.)
You'd think these tips were reliable since there so concistant and ubiquitous.
Originally posted by sunofjustice: The car is NOT done yet, the interior is my first try and its NOT done either (some materials I want to swap, some I dont.) and theres still MORE areas of the car that could use lightening, but I want to use BETTER materials before I attempt.
If weight-loss was entirely your goal, I would make the car more like a track car... something that kind of looks the part. I get the impression in some cases that you remove components and replace them with other components that look similar, but just made of cheaper and / or lighter materials... but I kind of get the feeling like you want to keep the car looking like a car?
To each their own of course, but if it were me, I'd strip the sucker down of all it's bare essentials so it essentially looked like a race car. Just a drivers seat, and bare metal all around except for a factory dash, black hard-board door panels... a driver's window safety-net, no passenger window, a plexiglass rear window, and a race windshield. I'd also get rid of all the other crap too...
It would be a cool project. By replacing a lot of this stuff, you're kind of making it look a bit ghetto in some respects. Might as well just go the whole extra yard and make it a track car. You'll still have a capable car that you can be proud of, and have all (and more) weight savings.
Originally posted by baldlobo: hey scca, is your purpose built fiero driven on public roads? or trailered?
It is strictly a track car. I have to trailer it. I have posted several photos of it on the board in various places, even the mall. Still have it, for now.
I did actual testing on air filters, I have real numbers, my numbers match those from Car and Driver and other real car writers. K&N filters do absolutely nothing at all. there is a ZERO pressure difference between the inside and outside of a paper filter. in fact a very dirty one showed only a 0.1psi drop.. PSI drop = loss in air flow.
washable filters are useless for a stock engine on a properly designed filter intake system. Guess what, the fiero unlike most cars had not only a properly designed filter intake, but it's actually over-sized for the engine. If you have a 1000hp monster engine sucking in air like crazy at 8000rpm, through a stock sized intake filter setup, guess what, a K&N will help. there is no way a 2.8 or even a 3.4 can ever be built up to pull in enough air to exceed even a 50% load on a cheap paper filter in the stock location. It is impossible, the displacement is not big enough and the engine will grenade well before it hits the RPM's that would get even close to it. a 3.4L pushrod running at WOT at 8000 RPM will only pull in 330.55556 CFM the pleated paper filter for the fiero is rated to handle ~1500CFM based on surface area calculations. Yes I cut one open and measured and then calculated. a 3.4 running WOT at 8000 rpm will fly apart in 1 second. this is assuming a perfect restriction free intake from filter to valves. We all know the stock upper intake has a big restriction in it, so the CFM the engine can pull in at WOT and bouncing off the REV limiter is around 220CFM, that is about the MAX the engine with a stock cast aluminum intake can flow. add a turbo and things change, increasing the PSI makes a big difference.
Buy a washable if you are a environmentalist or hate throwing things away, dont buy one for "performance" because it never had and never will have any advantage on a stock engine or even a mild engine swap. Me; I'll gladly throw away a filter every 6 months.
P.S. a 6psi boost does not over stress the engine, nor does it cause any heat issues, You can run 6psi on a 2.8 or 3.4 without an inter-cooler as the intake temps never go above 250 degrees. I calculated all this out. tuning expensive? not really, not unless you want a drag strip tune to get out every last HP. a realistic tune where the engine runs well normal and under boost is actually cheap. Darth fiero can send a chip that will probably have it running good enough for 90% of the people the first time. don't be afraid of boost, done right it's reliable as an engine without one... problem is most are not done right, or are done without taking the time to do all the math and learning how they work and are supposed to be done. Giggle gas also done right is not bad for the engine... A lot of myths and lies are all over the net about nitrous and turbos, typically started by people that did not know what they were doing , or they added a 100HP dry shot to a 250,000 mile worn out car and blew the engine up.
Lastly, the crap you said about tire pressure affecting horsepower is NOT a matter of precedence. (Theres a greenhorn statement If I ever heard one.) If anything, tire pressure affects MPG alot more so. Drag racers compromise their tire pressure at the DRIVE wheels to attain further traction, even when they are seriously concerned about horsepower.
this is a greenhorn statement; where do you think that gas and energy goes that kills your mpg; um, yeah that's because they understand physics(or the conservation of energy) or do you like creationism?
here's the baby steps for you gas goes into engine; is ignited, forces piston down, turns crank, which after several hundred to several thousand cycles goes through the transmission to the diff out to the wheels; if said wheels are under inflated(read that as higher friction), it uses more energy to get moving
was that simple enough for you to grasp; oh and the people who lower there tire pressure at the track normally air back up because of mpg.
frontal area is 18.6sqft(i don't think it matters weather it's an indy nose or not considering it's the front silhouette(that's the basic outline from ground up, for the person who can't read)
oh and about mags they are paid for by the manufactures of the products to help sell their stuff; not to help you out in anyway shape or form(it all comes down to the money; think the money you paid for the newest rag keeps them afloat; i don't think so)
[This message has been edited by baldlobo (edited 12-09-2010).]
