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How to get to Heaven by Mike in Sydney
Started on: 08-19-2025 10:33 PM
Replies: 63 (757 views)
Last post by: 82-T/A [At Work] on 08-30-2025 12:53 PM
82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post08-26-2025 08:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike in Sydney:

Welcome back, Todd. I was wondering when you would put your two cents in.

Again, you're assuming that I'm a radical leftist. How foolish you are. I'm as far from being a radical leftist as you are from being someone who hasn't imbibed the MAGA Kool-Aid.

Bye, Todd.



I was on a couple of trips, sorry.

Also, I don't think that me believing you to be a radical leftist is "foolish."
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Mike in Sydney
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Report this Post08-26-2025 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike in SydneySend a Private Message to Mike in SydneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
[B]Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:[/

Also, I don't think that me believing you to be a radical leftist is "foolish."


Your opinion.

Anyway, welcome back, I guess.
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Report this Post08-27-2025 01:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike in Sydney Here:

Welcome back, Todd. I was wondering when you would put your two cents in.


Mike, the jig is up! Todd has us pegged! You're a "radical leftist" and I have "no intention of actually having a conversation about anything".

We can't pull the wool over Todd's eyes any longer. He's just too smart for us!

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-27-2025).]

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Report this Post08-27-2025 01:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Doug85GTSend a Private Message to Doug85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike in Sydney:


Doug,

You're correct, we've all done it. There are local rules, "buddy rules", personal rules when just hacking, etc. So illegally improving your lie, dropping a ball closer to the hole, or anything outside the rules of the governing body can and does happen. Is it right? It depends on the situation but it's not allowed in competition and if you are bragging about your consummate golfing ability, you shouldn't do it in public - especially when you KNOW there is press or other observers around.

DJT brags continuously about being club champion. To do that, you have to play by the rules. To have a handicap assigned to you, you have to turn in a series of scorecards where the rounds were played in accordance with the official rules by the which the club or Course sets. Don doesn't really do that. Read Rick Reilly's book for details.

I'll give Don this, he can bang the ball a long way but his short game is suspect. It's kinda like his tariff negotiations: drive for show, putt for dough.

(edited for spelling)



Unless they shut down the golf course for the president to play, there will always be the public and press around. By your reasoning, that means the president is only allowed to use official tournament rules, otherwise he is "cheating".

If you have not noticed, Donald Trump brags about a lot of things. Most people, including his supporters take it all with a grain of salt. We know he is and will always be a salesman. Obviously this has gotten under your skin that he does this so maybe the problem is with you and not him.

No, I am not going to read a book to try to understand your argument. Either state what you mean or have your argument ignored. You have gone from condemning him Hell to nitpicking his golf game. It all comes off as petty.
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Report this Post08-27-2025 02:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Doug85GT:

Donald Trump brags about a lot of things... he is and will always be a salesman.


Is this what passes for "Presidential" material these days? My, how the mighty have fallen.
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Report this Post08-27-2025 03:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike in SydneySend a Private Message to Mike in SydneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Doug85GT:


Unless they shut down the golf course for the president to play, there will always be the public and press around. By your reasoning, that means the president is only allowed to use official tournament rules, otherwise he is "cheating".

If you have not noticed, Donald Trump brags about a lot of things. Most people, including his supporters take it all with a grain of salt. We know he is and will always be a salesman. Obviously this has gotten under your skin that he does this so maybe the problem is with you and not him.

No, I am not going to read a book to try to understand your argument. Either state what you mean or have your argument ignored. You have gone from condemning him Hell to nitpicking his golf game. It all comes off as petty.


You amaze me. If the shoe was on the other foot and we were talking about Obama, Clinton, or some other “left-leaning” or centrist individual you would be rallying the masses, gathering your pitchforks, and surrounding the castle. Don’t try to deny it, you only make yourself look foolish to those who recognise the blatantly obvious.

And BTW, I didn’t condemn Don to hell. I don’t have or want that responsibility. A person condemns himself or herself to hell, not me. I hope Don and others including you have taken steps to avoid that destination.
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Report this Post08-27-2025 07:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Everyone... let's look at this entire thread for how absurd it is:

- The post started out with an atheist quoting scripture to try to convince everyone here that Trump wouldn't go to heaven.

- The post devolved into the radical leftists complaining about Trump cheating at golf on his own golf course.


Donald Trump, living rent free in the minds of leftists, making atheists read scripture, and making people experts in golf. Is there anything he cannot do?
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Mike in Sydney
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Report this Post08-27-2025 07:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike in SydneySend a Private Message to Mike in SydneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

Everyone... let's look at this entire thread for how absurd it is:

- The post started out with an atheist quoting scripture to try to convince everyone here that Trump wouldn't go to heaven.

- The post devolved into the radical leftists complaining about Trump cheating at golf on his own golf course.


Donald Trump, living rent free in the minds of leftists, making atheists read scripture, and making people experts in golf. Is there anything he cannot do?


Obviously, the only head I’m living in is yours, Todd. There’s definitely a lot of room in here.
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Report this Post08-27-2025 10:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Doug85GTSend a Private Message to Doug85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike in Sydney:


You amaze me. If the shoe was on the other foot and we were talking about Obama, Clinton, or some other “left-leaning” or centrist individual you would be rallying the masses, gathering your pitchforks, and surrounding the castle. Don’t try to deny it, you only make yourself look foolish to those who recognise the blatantly obvious.

And BTW, I didn’t condemn Don to hell. I don’t have or want that responsibility. A person condemns himself or herself to hell, not me. I hope Don and others including you have taken steps to avoid that destination.


Don't try to be coy. You know very well the implications of what you did. You most certainly made it clear you think President Trump is going to Hell. Everyone posting in this thread clearly understands that is what you did.

This forum has decades of my posts on it. I don't recall ever saying with any seriousness that Obama or Clinton were going to Hell nor do I recall ever criticizing their golf games. You are welcomed to verify it if you want.

What I have done over the years is criticized their policies, values and official actions. That is a very different thing from what this thread is doing.
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Report this Post08-27-2025 11:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike in Sydney:

Obviously, the only head I’m living in is yours, Todd. There’s definitely a lot of room in here.



I'm happy to say that if it lets you have a better day... but the truth is, I don't much think about the P&R section at all, unless I'm in it. When I think about Pennock's Fiero Forum, I think about my daughter's Fiero project, the fact that I was on here when I was 20, and getting to meet Cliff in Zandvoort last year. Truth is... I really wish there was more substance to your posts. Both you and Patrick are obviously upset that Trump won... there's nothing wrong with having an opinion, but you guys don't ever really post anything of substance. It's always nonsense stuff like this... "Trump cheats at golf" or "Trump is going to hell because the Bible says so."

To be completely honest, I don't really know what you guys get out of this. I'm here because I like political discussion, I like debating ideas and policy... because this is how I change and grow. 25 years ago, I was a Democrat, anti-gay, pro-abortion, pro-death penalty, and believed in almost anarchistic libertarian ideals. Through discussions on here, and several other forums over the years, I've shifted right (or maybe the left shifted left). I support gay rights and gay adoption, I'm anti-death penalty, against abortion, and have more of a controlled-capitalist viewpoint on economics. Definitely not Keynesian, but I do see value in government directing funding for different programs to benefit the country as a whole.

I used to have excellent discussions with some of the other folks on here. I don't think through any particular fault of my own... the only people who really post on here are you and Patrick... and you rarely post anything of substance. It's usually something you guys saw on Facebook or whatever, and think you've got a "Gotcha" that you post here. There's never any policy discussion, etc. I almost wonder why either of you even waste your time. If I was as miserable as you guys were with the current situation, I don't think I'd even be wasting my time talking about it if I didn't have anything really substantial to discuss.

Most of your replies tend to be this obviously-insecure and feigned attempt at being a wise old person, but everyone can see through it. You never respond with anything substantial, and when you do respond, it's usually hand-wavey as if you have nothing really to say, or you outright run away.


If you want to have an actual debate on a topic, I'd like that... but I'm not seeing that from you.
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Report this Post08-27-2025 01:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bonaduceSend a Private Message to bonaduceEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Going by what is seen in the video, it appears 2 rules were broken.

https://www.usga.org/RulesF...x=191&Rule=0&Topic=1

Q.I can’t find my ball after searching for three minutes – what are my options?

A.If you can’t find your ball within three minutes, it is lost. Because it is lost, you must return to the spot of your previous stroke and play another ball from there for one penalty stroke (see Rule 18.2b)

With out knowing the complete scenario, the president should be assigned a 2 stroke penalty, by not returning to the previous ball strike area, if in a tournament it would be cause for DQ. But alas, like all games played in your personal back yard each individual has their own rules to play by.


https://www.usga.org/conten...all-provisional.html

If you hit your ball out of bounds or lose it (you have three minutes to search for your ball before it becomes lost), your only option is to go back to the spot of your previous stroke to play under stroke and distance. There are only a few exceptions to this when it is known or virtually certain what happened to your ball.

There is also an optional Local Rule which provides an alternative to stroke and distance relief when it is in effect. This Local Rule is recommended for casual play and not for competitions involving highly-skilled players. If it is in effect, for two penalty strokes, you can estimate the spot where your ball is lost or went out of bounds and then find the nearest fairway edge that is not nearer the hole than the estimated spot. You can drop a ball in the fairway within two club-lengths of that fairway edge point, or anywhere between there and the estimated spot where your ball is lost or went out of bounds.

If you think that your ball might be out bounds or that you might not find it, you can play a provisional ball to save time. You must announce that you are playing a provisional ball before doing so. If you are then unable to find your original ball, or you find it out of bounds, your provisional ball is your ball in play under stroke and distance, and you don’t have to take the time to walk all the way back to the spot of your previous stroke.


Now that we definitely know which rules he broke on the course, can we get back to discussing the really important things like bruises and cankles
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Report this Post08-27-2025 02:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Doug85GT:...

If you have not noticed, Donald Trump brags about a lot of things. Most people, including his supporters take it all with a grain of salt.
We know he is and will always be a salesman.


DJT likes to troll people. Especially the press, and especially the lefties. (But I repeat myself.)
I think it's hilarious, watching people spinning on their eybrows and jumping up their own arseholes, in response to comments that he's made.

He's now got the residents of DC speaking out in favor of criminals and crime. Just because he is doing something about it.
(To be fair, there are lots of DC residents supporting him, but the press is only talking about the people who are complaining.)
Effing hilarious.
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Report this Post08-27-2025 03:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work] Here:

Patrick has no intention of actually having a conversation about anything.


 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Todd's idea of a "conversation" is him typing great volumes of totally made up baloney. He then gets defensive when called on it. Rinse and repeat.


 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

Please find an example of that... please quote my entire post.


 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

I'm happy to say that if it lets you have a better day... but the truth is, I don't much think about the P&R section at all, unless I'm in it. When I think about Pennock's Fiero Forum, I think about my daughter's Fiero project, the fact that I was on here when I was 20, and getting to meet Cliff in Zandvoort last year. Truth is... I really wish there was more substance to your posts. Both you and Patrick are obviously upset that Trump won... there's nothing wrong with having an opinion, but you guys don't ever really post anything of substance. It's always nonsense stuff like this... "Trump cheats at golf" or "Trump is going to hell because the Bible says so."

To be completely honest, I don't really know what you guys get out of this. I'm here because I like political discussion, I like debating ideas and policy... because this is how I change and grow. 25 years ago, I was a Democrat, anti-gay, pro-abortion, pro-death penalty, and believed in almost anarchistic libertarian ideals. Through discussions on here, and several other forums over the years, I've shifted right (or maybe the left shifted left). I support gay rights and gay adoption, I'm anti-death penalty, against abortion, and have more of a controlled-capitalist viewpoint on economics. Definitely not Keynesian, but I do see value in government directing funding for different programs to benefit the country as a whole.

I used to have excellent discussions with some of the other folks on here. I don't think through any particular fault of my own... the only people who really post on here are you and Patrick... and you rarely post anything of substance. It's usually something you guys saw on Facebook or whatever, and think you've got a "Gotcha" that you post here. There's never any policy discussion, etc. I almost wonder why either of you even waste your time. If I was as miserable as you guys were with the current situation, I don't think I'd even be wasting my time talking about it if I didn't have anything really substantial to discuss.

Most of your replies tend to be this obviously-insecure and feigned attempt at being a wise old person, but everyone can see through it. You never respond with anything substantial, and when you do respond, it's usually hand-wavey as if you have nothing really to say, or you outright run away.

If you want to have an actual debate on a topic, I'd like that... but I'm not seeing that from you.


[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-27-2025).]

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Report this Post08-27-2025 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Everyone... let's look at this entire thread for how absurd it is:
Click to show


Let me fix that for you.

"Everyone... let's look at this entire thread for how humorous it is" :

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 08-27-2025).]

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Report this Post08-27-2025 10:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike in SydneySend a Private Message to Mike in SydneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I'm happy to say that if it lets you have a better day... but the truth is, I don't much think about the P&R section at all, unless I'm in it. When I think about Pennock's Fiero Forum, I think about my daughter's Fiero project, the fact that I was on here when I was 20, and getting to meet Cliff in Zandvoort last year. Truth is... I really wish there was more substance to your posts. Both you and Patrick are obviously upset that Trump won... there's nothing wrong with having an opinion, but you guys don't ever really post anything of substance. It's always nonsense stuff like this... "Trump cheats at golf" or "Trump is going to hell because the Bible says so."

To be completely honest, I don't really know what you guys get out of this. I'm here because I like political discussion, I like debating ideas and policy... because this is how I change and grow. 25 years ago, I was a Democrat, anti-gay, pro-abortion, pro-death penalty, and believed in almost anarchistic libertarian ideals. Through discussions on here, and several other forums over the years, I've shifted right (or maybe the left shifted left). I support gay rights and gay adoption, I'm anti-death penalty, against abortion, and have more of a controlled-capitalist viewpoint on economics. Definitely not Keynesian, but I do see value in government directing funding for different programs to benefit the country as a whole.

I used to have excellent discussions with some of the other folks on here. I don't think through any particular fault of my own... the only people who really post on here are you and Patrick... and you rarely post anything of substance. It's usually something you guys saw on Facebook or whatever, and think you've got a "Gotcha" that you post here. There's never any policy discussion, etc. I almost wonder why either of you even waste your time. If I was as miserable as you guys were with the current situation, I don't think I'd even be wasting my time talking about it if I didn't have anything really substantial to discuss.

Most of your replies tend to be this obviously-insecure and feigned attempt at being a wise old person, but everyone can see through it. You never respond with anything substantial, and when you do respond, it's usually hand-wavey as if you have nothing really to say, or you outright run away.


If you want to have an actual debate on a topic, I'd like that... but I'm not seeing that from you.


Obviously, Patrick, myself, and other non-MAGA folks are so deep in your head that you can't stand it but to respond to some of your recent posts:

  1. What have I said to make you think that I'm an atheist? Other that starting this thread by stating that I am a Christian and by clarifying what the Bible says about the requirements for salvation (John 3:16) and what the bible says about good works, I've never said anything about religion. Religion is a personal choice believe or don't believe, it's up to the individual.
  2. I am a wise old person when compared to you. Shucks, my 13-year old grandson is a wise old person when compared to you.
  3. You constantly project and deflect. Need a recent example? How about you jumping in and accusing me of being an atheist? I've stated my position on religion (and this is the Politics and Religion forum) whereas from memory you've implied that you are an atheist - or at least agnostic. Anyway, it's your call. I am happy of have an exchange of emails outside of this thread if you want to discuss my beliefs in depth. I promise not to try and convert you.
  4. What you consider substantial and what others consider substantial may not coincide. You, however, cannot accept the fact that some folks may not agree with you so you respond with lengthy diatribes to try and win your point. With me, that doesn't work.
  5. If you have been paying attention, I usually quit responding to you. You just wear me out. I begin to feel like the Robert Heinlein quote, "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."



 
quote
Originally posted by Doug85GT:


Don't try to be coy. You know very well the implications of what you did. You most certainly made it clear you think President Trump is going to Hell. Everyone posting in this thread clearly understands that is what you did.

This forum has decades of my posts on it. I don't recall ever saying with any seriousness that Obama or Clinton were going to Hell nor do I recall ever criticizing their golf games. You are welcomed to verify it if you want.

What I have done over the years is criticized their policies, values and official actions. That is a very different thing from what this thread is doing.


Dang, Doug, you sound like my wife when I told her my latest Fiero followed me home. I'm not being coy. The implications are, yes, based on what I've observed and on what DJT has done, I think he is headed there. The good thing is he doesn't have to continue on the track he's headed down. Good works and deeds don't get you into heaven. A Christian knows that so saying that "I wanna try and get to heaven if possible. I'm hearing I'm not doing well. I am really at the bottom of the totem pole. But if I can get to heaven, this will be one of the reasons." on Fox & Friends on 8/19/25 makes be believe he's worried about something and may not be sure about his standing as a Christian. I truly hope I'm wrong about his status.

You totally missed the point about Obama, Clinton and other “left-leaning” or centrist individuals. Let me help you understand. I'm saying that if or when Obama, Clinton and other “left-leaning” or centrist individuals were to do something that is questionable, the right would be going batsh*t crazy in the same way that Don is being treated by the left and centrists.

Forget the golf analogy, here's a hypothetical for you, If a Democrat had been in office, lost the election where there was no appreciable election fraud (notice I said “appreciable” to acknowledge that there may have been fraudulent votes / actions on both sides), had rallied his supporters to storm the Capital, threatened the Vice President and other officials of both Parties, attacked Capital Police, damaged the Capital building, and then pardoned those convicted of the crimes, how would you as a MAGA, Alt-Right, Republican or right leaning individual view that? If you tell me that you would feel the same way those on the other side feel or view it, I’m calling Bullsh*t.


 
quote
Originally posted by bonaduce:


Now that we definitely know which rules he broke on the course, can we get back to discussing the really important things like bruises and cankles


You’re right this thread has gone off topic. Perhaps we should go on to discuss the cankles, bruises, strange press conference utterances, and obvious age-related health problems. Trump is 78, the same age Biden when he was sworn in 2021 and we saw what happened there.

[This message has been edited by Mike in Sydney (edited 08-27-2025).]

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Report this Post08-27-2025 11:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike in Sydney:

You’re right this thread has gone off topic.


That's partly my fault. Rick mentioned he'd like to golf with Trump, and I warned him of the potential consequences.

 
quote
Originally posted by Mike in Sydney:

Trump is 78, the same age Biden when he was sworn in 2021 and we saw what happened there.


Scary for sure!

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Report this Post08-28-2025 08:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike in Sydney:

Obviously, Patrick, myself, and other non-MAGA folks are so deep in your head that you can't stand it but to respond to some of your recent posts:

1. What have I said to make you think that I'm an atheist? Other that starting this thread by stating that I am a Christian and by clarifying what the Bible says about the requirements for salvation (John 3:16) and what the bible says about good works, I've never said anything about religion. Religion is a personal choice believe or don't believe, it's up to the individual.

2. I am a wise old person when compared to you. Shucks, my 13-year old grandson is a wise old person when compared to you.

3. You constantly project and deflect. Need a recent example? How about you jumping in and accusing me of being an atheist? I've stated my position on religion (and this is the Politics and Religion forum) whereas from memory you've implied that you are an atheist - or at least agnostic. Anyway, it's your call. I am happy of have an exchange of emails outside of this thread if you want to discuss my beliefs in depth. I promise not to try and convert you.

4. What you consider substantial and what others consider substantial may not coincide. You, however, cannot accept the fact that some folks may not agree with you so you respond with lengthy diatribes to try and win your point. With me, that doesn't work.

5. If you have been paying attention, I usually quit responding to you. You just wear me out. I begin to feel like the Robert Heinlein quote, "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."




I could repeat what I said before, but you seem to be intentionally ignoring it. I'm not going to get into the insults as you have, but I'll repeat that I have no problem with people who disagree with me. I like discussion; however, I expect people to be able to defend their positions. Respectfully, I haven't ever seen you do that, and I feel your responses on politics are more emotionally based than they are rooted in any thought. There are a lot of positions I waiver on, and I'm clear about it when questioned... almost all of my opinions have come from discussions and debates. Sometimes I end up re-affirming my own positions, other times I change them.

And no, I'm Catholic. I'm very religious, but I rarely talk about it. My faith is totally unshakeable because of what I've personally experienced.
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Report this Post08-28-2025 11:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Doug85GTSend a Private Message to Doug85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike in Sydney:
You totally missed the point about Obama, Clinton and other “left-leaning” or centrist individuals. Let me help you understand. I'm saying that if or when Obama, Clinton and other “left-leaning” or centrist individuals were to do something that is questionable, the right would be going batsh*t crazy in the same way that Don is being treated by the left and centrists.


Here is the problem. I am addressing you and your grievances directly. You are addressing your own mental image of "the right".

I cannot and am not even going to attempt to address your mental image of "the right".
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olejoedad
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Report this Post08-29-2025 09:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike in Sydney:


(snip) Obama, Clinton, or some other “left-leaning” or centrist individual (snip)




Considering these politicians "left leaning" or centrist speaks volumes about your political views.
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Report this Post08-29-2025 03:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Patrick:
Is this what passes for "Presidential" material these days? My, how the mighty have fallen.


The mighty ????

Who are they ?

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Originally posted by cliffw:

The mighty ???? Who are they ?


Presidents of the US who were once respected world-wide. Even though I'm not American, I'm saddened to see what's become of the head office/administration in the US. It's now the laughing stock of the world.

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Report this Post08-29-2025 09:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Presidents of the US who were once respected world-wide. Even though I'm not American, I'm saddened to see what's become of the head office/administration in the US. It's now the laughing stock of the world.



No, they weren't. I've been traveling the world at least two countries every year since I was 5, for the last 42 years... sometimes many more, especially for the decade I worked for the NSA. As an American, especially in the 80s and 90s... everyone always let me know how much they disliked the United States Presidents. Not a single president from the United States has ever had any kind of respect (in the way that you are suggesting) since as long as I've been alive. Maybe it was different in the 70s and earlier... but in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s... no... we're never appreciated. The closest we've ever come has been President Obama, who still was disliked. I even visited your CSE a few times under the Obama administration, and I routinely had to bite my lip as they constantly made negative comments about him with me in earshot. Which is ridiculous, because when the 5-Eyes partners from the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand would visit one of my sites, I always showed the utmost respect and never talked politics to them. But whatever...




President Trump is the first president who's actually "respected" in so much as he's hated. Countries hate the power that the United States has, I get it... and they're forced to respect Trump, because he's using the full economic power of the United States to get what he wants.

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 08-29-2025).]

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Report this Post08-30-2025 12:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

Not a single president from the United States has ever had any kind of respect (in the way that you are suggesting) since as long as I've been alive. Maybe it was different in the 70s and earlier... but in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s... no... we're never appreciated.


I go all the way back to Eisenhower. Can't say I can remember him, as I was only five or six years of age when his term ended... but from what I've read, he was well respected. I certainly remember John F Kennedy. He was definitely respected world-wide. Perhaps the US never fully recovered after JFK's assassination, but the quality of US presidents has been slipping since then... although I believe Jimmy Carter was the finest human being of all the later presidents.

 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

President Trump is the first president who's actually "respected" in so much as he's hated. Countries hate the power that the United States has, I get it... and they're forced to respect Trump, because he's using the full economic power of the United States to get what he wants.


Don't kid yourself. In no way, shape, or form is Donald Trump respected by anyone other than by MAGA zealots and other wannabe right-wing dictators such as Javier Milei of Argentina.

And please don't suggest that Vladimir Putin respects Donald Trump. Putin is playing Trump for a fool. That fiasco of a meeting in Alaska was an embarrassment for any self-respecting American.

Your idea of "respect" is completely skewed.
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quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
I go all the way back to Eisenhower. Can't say I can remember him, as I was only five or six years of age when his term ended... but from what I've read, he was well respected. I certainly remember John F Kennedy. He was definitely respected world-wide. Perhaps the US never fully recovered after JFK's assassination, but the quality of US presidents has been slipping since then... although I believe Jimmy Carter was the finest human being of all the later presidents.



I would agree with your comments on Jimmy Carter (and of course the other presidents you mention), though I don't remember them. I do know that Jimmy Carter led a very virtuous life, both in and out of office. I don't agree with much of what I've learned about his presidency... he seemed hesitant to make any decision, and perhaps his party is what saddled him down, but he was rather weak, and people walked all over him while he was in office. He was an amazing person in the years out of office, always being selfless.

For me personally, I really liked Ronald Reagan, which I respect that you probably don't like. I wouldn't say any of the other presidents since then have been "great." DJT is growing on me though, but we're only 8 months in, and I'll reserve my decision until he's been in office for 3.5 years.


 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Don't kid yourself. In no way, shape, or form is Donald Trump respected by anyone other than by MAGA zealots and other wannabe right-wing dictators such as Javier Milei of Argentina.

And please don't suggest that Vladimir Putin respects Donald Trump. Putin is playing Trump for a fool. That fiasco of a meeting in Alaska was an embarrassment for any self-respecting American.

Your idea of "respect" is completely skewed.


At no point did I suggest Putin "respected" Trump, though I do know that he doesn't believe he can screw around with Trump like he could President Obama and Biden. Putin attacked Ukraine during Biden and Obama's term, and took land both times. That is fact and undisputed. What's also fact is that he didn't begin amassing troops on the border of Ukraine until Trump was out of office, and once the Supreme Court ruled all of Trump's law suits null and void, he immediately started amassing troops, and then invaded by August. This is also fact.

I think Putin is slightly playing Trump right now, but I give Trump credit for at least trying to end the war diplomatically. I also give Trump credit for forcing Europe to have to take an active role in this, we'll see what the outcome is.


The strict definition of respect is two-fold... it's having admiration for someone for who they are, and also for qualities they hold. Obviously, your view of the definition of respect is correct... but I disagree that the world has respected our presidents. It's not something I particular care too much about (honestly)... but I understand that no country wants to be pushed around by another larger country. That said... it's what it is... and Obama and Binden (less so Clinton, believe it or not) are extreme interventionists. The "Arab Spring" and the toppling of many governments occured as a result of their forced meddling through CIA and State Department programs. Both Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. were also like this. Trump, not so much... Trump has actively fought to be a non-interventionalist unless it directly affects the United States, or her immediate allies... but, the next 3 years remain to be seen whether he changes. He was very "hands off" for things like that in his first term.

I will say that other countries have a type of respect for Trump... they respect (begrudgingly) that they dislike the fact that he has significant power, while they view him as a loose canon. The respect is not one of admiration, but one of perhaps fear of what Trump might do. It's the reason the left focuses on the "king" and "dictatorship" nomenclature when they refer to Trump. He's not of course... but he's using the full power of the United States to get what he wants for our country. This clearly upsets the other countries (and I would expect that it does). Understand that in my mind... I view it from the perspective that for the last 20+ years... the United States has effectively been taken advantage of, while also misusing the trust of other nations as well.

The reason why myself, and others (as best as I can figure), voted for Trump, is because we are tired of sending billions of dollars overseas. We're tired of endless wars (I for one definitely am), and I want our allies to be strong, not reliant on us. What I'm going to say is going to feel insulting, and I don't mean it to be... but Canada has the weakest military right now than it's ever had in my entire lifetime. When I worked for the NSA, as a volunteer, I would volunteer my time (as an NSA employee) to work with your country's young cadets at the Royal Military College in Kingston, Ontario. It's a beautiful small town, and the people there were really nice... and I also bought a beaver stuffed animal for my daughter (haha).

But... what I came to quickly realize, is that Canada had basically eliminated multiple military colleges. You guys literally only have RMC, and one other (which serves as a back-up). You no longer have a college for sailors, one for army, one for air force, etc. You lump them all into one college, which has essentially destroyed the culture of the individual military branches. You guys do what you do, so I'm not making aspersions... but the United States has effectively been the "defensive force" for Canada, while Canada has effectively "wound down" their military. I loved my time working with the people at CSE... but I was also shocked to learn (at the time), you guys basically have like 5 cybersecurity people that did incident responses (to critical infrastructure and your own intelligence networks) for your entire country ... Canada actually started relying on us.


Respectfully, I love Canada, I do... but you guys have in fact been taking advantage of the United States... in my view, and I think we need a "reset." That's what Trump is doing... the fact that a lot of people are angry, is the likely outcome. There's a lot of **** that's been ****ed up, a great much of it has been as a result of corporate lobbying and influence that's corrupted our government (and yours). I also know as a fact (though you will probably disagree) that the social issues we seem to fight about, are also perpetuated significantly by groups lead by Russia, Iran, China, North Korea, and even Pakistan (which is a quasi-ally of ours). The very intent of this is to create and sow discontent between people who have different political opinions. This is also on-going in Europe as well... this is intentional. It comes from two major groups... our common adversaries, and globalist billionaire institutions that desire a more malleable and compliant populace ... in an effort to give them better authority and manipulation power to grow wealth.


We fight about stupid stuff... but we have a common enemy, and common allies, and a common goal... we just have a hard time realizing it.

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