"Like those crosses outlined in light on the Manhattan skyline at night, George Washington’s exhortations and admonitions are residues of a lost and probably unrecoverable past."
I am thankful that it is "unrecoverable".
The founding Fathers did a great job setting up our government, but their "morals" include acceptance of slavery and oppression of women. Those are two evils that require religious dogma to justify them. They are basic tenants of Christianity and Islam. That is why our government has to be free of religious influence.
Churches do a lot of good work, but they can't be involved in shaping government policy.
The founding Fathers did a great job setting up our government, but their "morals" include acceptance of slavery and oppression of women.
I am so glad you're not really a teacher (or a lawyer, lol!). Your ignorance would be unbelievable if I didn't already know that you simply parrot whatever you're told, and this is just more of that.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:I am so glad you're not really a teacher (or a lawyer, lol!). Your ignorance would be unbelievable if I didn't already know that you simply parrot whatever you're told, and this is just more of that.
Everything I said is 100% correct.
Just tell me what you claim is wrong and I will give you a history lesson right here in front of everyone.
No. I am 100% correct. You can't use the morals of someone 200 years ago (George Washington) to judge people today. He lived in a time when many people did not consider chattel slavery or oppressing women to be wrong.
Or are you going to try and argue that there is nothing immoral about slavery or denying women equal rights?
Originally posted by randye: Leftists are so stupid that you're willing to cripple your own minds on the basis of idiotic moral relativism.
Actually in this situation it is you guys on the right who are being moral relativists. You are the ones defending the acceptance of slavery as moral in the 1700's.
Maybe you should leave the use of those big words to people who know what they mean.
Actually in this situation it is you guys on the right who are being moral relativists. You are the ones defending the acceptance of slavery as moral in the 1700's.
Maybe you should leave the use of those big words to people who know what they mean.
It's clear to me that you haven't read the Federalist Papers, the Thomas Jefferson Papers, or anything related to the actual history / ratification of the U.S. Constitution.
I realize that your current facade' is being a "history teacher;" however, to me... this is akin to when in your last account on here (before you were banned like everywhere else), you didn't know the difference between mens rae and actus rae, despite claiming to be a criminal defense attorney.
In the Declaration of Independence, the language was very specific... "all men are created equal." Jefferson goes on to describe why he and Franklin used this language... and he had to fight to keep this language because some wanted it to be more specific. It was intentional, because he hoped there would be a time where it actually applied to everyone. This was carried through to the U.S. Constitution where it does not actually mention the word "slavery" or "slaves" at all, by intention. This is very clear. He had to use very specific language to get the southern states to agree to ratification, while wording the constitution in a way that essentially made slavery illegal through future interpretation (this was very intentional). Even Article IV, Section 2 specifically did not mention slavery, but instead "indentured servants," also by intention. They viewed it as vile, and although many of them had slaves early-on, people do change... and they did change as they got older. This honestly makes it all that much more redeeming.
Regardless... you do you. I know you're not actually a history teacher, but for your own benefit, you should at least read what the founders wrote in their own memoires.
Originally posted by BingB: You just posted an article that was a lecture on todays morals being judged by George Washington.
Do you not read what you post links to?
I posted an article that was a warning of how our values could be manipulated by special interest groups. Evidently it was over your head, perhaps your English teacher could explain some of the big words to you.
Originally posted by randye: You Leftoids have the rhetorical and logic skills of children, your histrionics and jejune analogies not being the least of it.
Leftists are so stupid that you're willing to cripple your own minds on the basis of idiotic moral relativism.
and yet progress marches on and con grow old and die their hate and fear is no way to run a modern nation but hate and fear is all they have so quickly or slowly with great fury they always fail and progress beats regression every time
They viewed it as vile, and although many of them had slaves early-on, people do change... and they did change as they got older.
I guess Jefferson changed when he got too old to get his slaves pregnant.
How many slaves did Jefferson own and when exactly did find slavery so "vile" that he set them all free? Since you studied the issue so much I am sure you know.
What exactly did you say what wrong with Brandon's immigration policy ?
What do you suggest can he do to fix it ?
How would you fix it ?
Need strict laws to stop "catch and release". Make it clear so that no President can work around it with an "executive order".
If you eliminate "catch and release" you have to have some way to deal with the flood at the border. Claims for asylum can be complicated so applicants are entitled to at least some sort of hearing. We need to increase the number officers to conduct these hearings. I'd say 90 days is the longest we could reasonably hold people at the border, so all hearings would have to be that quick. The recently proposed bill had provisions to completely stop all entries when they reached a certain level. We would have to have something like that to make sure we could process everyone within 90 days.
If we limit the numbers at the legal ports of entry then that will put an even greater strain on the rest of the border. We need to upgrade security. A wall, more video surveillance, or patrol personnel, or whatever is most effective. We also need to add more penalties for illegal entry other than just sending them back to Mexico. Anyone caught attempting to enter illegally should be barred from seeking legal entry for 5+ years. The Biden Administration likes to brag that they returned more people to Mexico than Trump, but the evidence indicates that they are actually catching and returning the same people over and over again. They just keep trying until they succeed.
I guess Jefferson changed when he got too old to get his slaves pregnant.
How many slaves did Jefferson own and when exactly did find slavery so "vile" that he set them all free? Since you studied the issue so much I am sure you know.
Like I said, there's a reason why you're single. Having a conversation with you is basically akin to kicking yourself in the nuts. There's no point to it, and it's painful. You are a completely worthless individual to have a conversation with, Fred. Never in my life have I ever encountered someone who's mildly ignorant in every category, confidently wrong, and self-consciously arrogant all at the same time. The entire psychology of why you're even here is weird as **** , to say the least. You've been banned from multiple other forums, and yet... something draws you back. Let's say hypothetically you do have a Fiero... you don't even contribute in the other forums except to throw in a random stupid post or question for the sole benefit of trying to make it seem like you're contributing. Yet... you're too stupid to realize that the rest of us are NOT stupid, and can see right through it.
So... on Thomas Jefferson. He ran a plantation, so obviously he had slaves. As normal sane people have said... it was considered totally normal in that society (that he was born into) to have slaves, yet... he was one of the "change makers" that fought to end slavery. Being the founder of a nation, despite what you may think... does not pay. He was flat-broke when he died, and the slaves kept the plantation running. I've been to Monticello several times when I lived in Richmond, VA. I've seen the slave (punishment) cage in the basement, and walked the gardens and fields they worked. To simply say that Thomas Jefferson was a bad man because he owned slaves, is incredibly ignorant because you're imposing today's values on yesterday's people. Even then, he knew it was wrong, and as far as slave holders went, he did his best to actually take care of them, while acknowledging they were still "slaves."
He freed many slaves (having actually educated them in several trades), and while education among slaves was considered punishable by most southern state laws, he did not discourage it. If you read his personal letters, you'll find that he was very two-faced... what he said in public, and what he actually did at home. You're viewing everything from the perspective of white and black, of course... but the words in both the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution are very specific... and they do not mention race for a very good reason. He envisioned a time when everyone truly would be free... which is why he wrote it the way he did.
Like I said, there's a reason why you're single. Having a conversation with you is basically akin to kicking yourself in the nuts. There's no point to it, and it's painful. You are a completely worthless individual to have a conversation with, Fred. Never in my life have I ever encountered someone who's mildly ignorant in every category, confidently wrong, and self-consciously arrogant all at the same time. The entire psychology of why you're even here is weird as **** , to say the least. You've been banned from multiple other forums, and yet... something draws you back. Let's say hypothetically you do have a Fiero... you don't even contribute in the other forums except to throw in a random stupid post or question for the sole benefit of trying to make it seem like you're contributing. Yet... you're too stupid to realize that the rest of us are NOT stupid, and can see right through it.
Todd, I get it, you disagree with Bing. He frustrates you because he challenges your opinion, and he refuses to be chased off the forum by you and a few others... so you wish to give him a dig. Okay fine, I'm not above doing that to a few members here myself. However, IMO you're now pushing things too far. I'm pretty sure that posting an entire paragraph where you're doing nothing but insulting a PFF member probably goes against Cliff Pennock's rules.
It's getting rather tiresome to be seeing strings of insults (not just by you) directed towards a fellow forum member in lieu of a rational response.
Keep it civilized! It's ok to disagree with someone. Really, it is. But it's not ok to call someone a "toad licking monkey waxer" just because he disagrees. It'll make you actually look like one. Name-calling will most likely get you a bad rating. At the very least, it will cause the thread to end up in the Trash Can, and at its very worst it will get you banned.
Keep it civilized! It's ok to disagree with someone. Really, it is. But it's not ok to call someone a "toad licking monkey waxer" just because he disagrees. It'll make you actually look like one. Name-calling will most likely get you a bad rating. At the very least, it will cause the thread to end up in the Trash Can, and at its very worst it will get you banned.
Patrick, Fred (whom has been banned already) has specifically stated (as Bing) that he enjoys getting people worked up, and enjoys the reactions he gets by doing what he does. He's not here for discussion, and it has nothing to do with him having a difference of opinion. There are many people who have disagreeing views, but understand how to have a conversation. Rather than have an honest discussion, his goals have literally nothing to do with the actual topic. So he pivots and deflects whenever he feels he's "losing." This means it's a "fight" for him, and that makes every discussion a literal "fight." This is not how things should be. I mean absolutely what I said, and while I do honestly feel bad saying it, I think he needs to hear it.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Patrick, Fred (whom has been banned already) has specifically stated (as Bing) that he enjoys getting people worked up, and enjoys the reactions he gets by doing what he does
This is a lie. All I have said is that I will fight against misinformation because it is bad for society.
You accuse me of just wanting to attack and work people up yet i NEVER resort to paragraphs of personal insults directed at you. You are the one who does that. You are the one who is here to make it all personal. You are the one who replies to my posts of facts with nothing but more insults. You are the one who can not separate your political discussions from your cultural positions.
Basically you are doing everything you accuse me of doing while I never do anything you accuse me of. All I do is post facts to disprove misinformation on political issues.
Originally posted by BingB: @ cliffw: ... you make these vague accusations without ever giving specific examples.
I am not going to play make believe with you.
quote
Originally posted by BingB: @ cliffw: I have made a tremendous effort to find out what Fredtoast did to get banned so that I could avoid it.
I can help you !
My Wife worked at the Texas State Hospital for 25 years. The State Hospitals in all States care for the mentally ill, including those found in court "guilty by reason of insanity" and those deemed to not be sanity able to mount a defense.
I am not suggesting you are mentally ill.
My Wife was part of a treatment team. Which had Dr's and psychologists. The team members worked together on all cases assigned to them. Years of experience together, a true team.
Their task was to interview the "subject of treatment" and the many facets of what placed them in the Texas State Hospital. Their goal was to return the subject to a sane state of mind with medication, if needed, so they can function in public.
Those deemed to not be sane enough to mount a defense, their job was to become sane enough to do so.
For 25 years my Wife has threatened me that if I ended up in the State Hospital, that she would personally write my treatment plan, : . I ask her for her opinion on people's actions many times as long as it is not me, : .
You are one of those people. She identifies the following disorders she believes you show traits of. She can not state your state of mind without interviewinq you in depth with the help of her treatment team members.
The disorders she believes you show traits of include ...
quote
Originally posted by my Wife]: Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD). Histrionic personality disorder (APD). Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (OCPD) Slight schizoid personality disorder.
BingB, you recently said you need no introspection. Your an odd ball because everyone does.
As far as being banned and claiming to understand what got FredToast banned. Again, I can help you. Are you up for a twelve step program ? Serious question.
BingB, you recently said you need no introspection. Your an odd ball because everyone does..
Do you know what "introspective" means? How could I possibly be introspective for another person?
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
As far as being banned and claiming to understand what got FredToast banned. Again, I can help you. Are you up for a twelve step program ? Serious question.
I am not sure I need a 12 step program. But I am very anxious to find why Mr. toast got banned.
And here is my "serious question". If you know why he was banned why don't you just tell me? Why is it such a big secret?
I am not sure I need a 12 step program. But I am very anxious to find why Mr. toast got banned.
And here is my "serious question". If you know why he was banned why don't you just tell me? Why is it such a big secret?
Fred, there is NO ONE HERE that still believes that you aren't Fred Toast. There is literally no point to continuing this. Your mannerisms, behavior, and the things you literally say are all identical. Your inability to multi-quote (until we call you out on it), your tone-deaf constant drum beat that "you post facts and sources," despite the fact that you actually don't. It's the same person. Again, there is NO ONE HERE who actually believes you aren't the same guy. Fred was banned. Then created a new account (like an idiot) with another account using a different e-mail address that literally had his same name in it. We called him out, and he disappeared, and then 1 week later you showed up as yet another new account... STRAIGHT to the Politics & Religion section, and carried on as if you've always been here, but with a different persona.
Stop... it's extremely pathetic. You should be seriously embarrassed with yourself. Who does this?
Originally posted by BingB: Do you know what "introspective" means? How could I possibly be introspective for another person?
My my. I will ask my Wife if you suffer with signs of dilusion. No one asked you to do that.
I do very well understand introspection.
quote
Originally posted by BingB: I am not sure I need a 12 step program. But I am very anxious to find why Mr. toast got banned.
And here is my "serious question". If you know why he was banned why don't you just tell me? Why is it such a big secret?
It is no secret. I just told you. Do some introspection. You andFredToast, aside from acting the same way, both show signs of the same mental condition.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Fred, there is NO ONE HERE that still believes that you aren't Fred Toast. There is literally no point to continuing this. Your mannerisms, behavior, and the things you literally say are all identical. Your inability to multi-quote (until we call you out on it), your tone-deaf constant drum beat that "you post facts and sources," despite the fact that you actually don't. It's the same person. Again, there is NO ONE HERE who actually believes you aren't the same guy. Fred was banned. Then created a new account (like an idiot) with another account using a different e-mail address that literally had his same name in it. We called him out, and he disappeared, and then 1 week later you showed up as yet another new account... STRAIGHT to the Politics & Religion section, and carried on as if you've always been here, but with a different persona.
Stop... it's extremely pathetic. You should be seriously embarrassed with yourself. Who does this?
The only pathetic thing here is how much you are obsessed with me.
And I don't know about Mr. Toast, but I constantly post facts and sources to back up my opinions. And I constantly challenge others to do the same. But instead all we get are long threads about my supposed secret identity.
Why do you even care? I did not come here to attack you or anyone else. I just came here to challenge misinformation from BOTH sides. I don't support Biden's immigration policy. I support the rigths of citizens to possess firearms. I don't want to de-fund the police. If there were more people from the left starting threads here then I would be disagreeing with them also. But it sems that there is a small cadre of right-wing extremists who consider themselves the gatekeepers for this forum. If that is the way you want it to be then fine. If you can not stand up to dissent then get rid of me. But I am not going abandon the fight against misinformation because of a threat from cancel culture. I am nearly as insulting as many of you. I don't post misinformation. So I have nothing to be ashamed of. If the truth hurts your feelings then that is not my problem.
: . I ask her for her opinion on people's actions many times as long as it is not me, 
