This is not a "one side or the other" issue. The twenty dissenters need to understand the error of their ways, but someone needs to put McCarthy on the straight and narrow. And it needs to be done immediately, if not sooner.
This is not a "one side or the other" issue. The twenty dissenters need to understand the error of their ways, but someone needs to put McCarthy on the straight and narrow. And it needs to be done immediately, if not sooner.
Why is what the 20 dissenters doing, considered erroneous? It seems to me, this is exactly what should be happening. Why has McCarthy somehow been ordained to be Speaker? It seems whatever he believed, was incorrect. There were 19, now 20 people who don't want him to have speakership. He keeps holding more votes (5 already) and the numbers have only been getting worse each time. On it's face, this seriously makes me question what he's thinking. Is he under the impression that this "problem" somehow resolved itself, or that the people who have somehow ordained him, resolved this problem from one vote to the next?
There have been 5 votes now, and he's not gained support, only lost a little bit more of it. I'm not particularly sure I really like him either. My understanding is that he refuses to sign an agreement that he will abide by a few terms... those being that he would release all J6 evidence, investigate Hunter Biden, and agree to some level of fiscal responsibility. That he refuses to these very simple demands is at best, totally suspect to me.
Personally, this to me seems like a complete failure of leadership, and the fact that he's already moved into the office despite the fact that this vote hasn't been successful is increasingly concerning to me... it's almost as if he was somehow given "assurance" that the position was his... and I'm definitely not liking the perspective. Why do we want someone from California anyway? They've lost their state... that's the worst example of a state to be coming from. Florida though... like Byron Donalds... that's a state that went from being SOLID blue... literally bluer in the mid 1990s than California is right now... to a super Republican majority in every chamber, every position, and every committee. Lowest unemployment, top 3 in education, you name it. Seems to me... that's a place we want our next speaker to come from.
Why is what the 20 dissenters doing, considered erroneous?
I don't want McCarthy either, but it seems to me to be inevitable. The alternatives are much less desirable. I don't want a seriously splintered GOP or a Dem speaker.
If the dissenters cannot quickly produce a candidate which can carry the necessary 218 votes, they need to bite the bullet and stand behind McCarthy. The time for grandstanding and infighting is long passed. There is an adage which rhymes with "Slit or get off the slot." They have VERY important work to do and it needs to be done YESTERDAY.
I have been incommunicado all afternoon and I guess they will be reconvening shortly. We can only hope they have reached an amicable understanding.
I don't want McCarthy either, but it seems to me to be inevitable. The alternatives are much less desirable. I don't want a seriously splintered GOP or a Dem speaker.
If the dissenters cannot quickly produce a candidate which can carry the necessary 218 votes, they need to bite the bullet and stand behind McCarthy. The time for grandstanding and infighting is long passed. There is an adage which rhymes with "Slit or get off the slot." They have VERY important work to do and it needs to be done YESTERDAY.
I have been incommunicado all afternoon and I guess they will be reconvening shortly. We can only hope they have reached an amicable understanding.
I don't think it needs to be inevitable. One thing I've learned is that... it's easy to become detached from reality based on your own situation and success (or failure) in life. When people who are not seeing things from the same perspective as the masses get put into a situation where they aren't getting their way, they often lash out in ways they wouldn't otherwise. This can reveal a lot about a person, particularly... where their allegiance and drive comes from.
Dan Crenshaw is a good example here... the comments he made the other night, calling the 19-20 people "terrorists," is really apropos to my point. It seems that an "establishment" has already pre-determined how they wanted this to go. It doesn't seem to be working out that way, and now they're even threatening these 20 individuals by saying they're going to strip them of their committee positions. We laughed at the Democrats with their "Super Delegate" nonsense during the primary, which essentially made the primaries more of a "feel-good" thing than anything else. Yet we are willing to accept similar behavior in our own party.
Nothing good has ever come from an establishment Republican. I can think of a few negatives... "Read my lips, no new taxes" (but we got new taxes), or George W. Bush. All of whom I more or less agreed with at the time. Like the idiot that I was, I need to experience failure myself to learn from it... and I have. I don't want establishment quorum. I want someone to go in there and FIGHT, and FIGHT HARD for the things the American people want changed... not to pass legislation that enriches foreign governments, colluding corporations, and American oligarchs.
We're being told to accept the fact that it's inevitable... maybe it is. Kevin McCarthy seems to know something we don't because he's already moved into that office, and the Capitol Police haven't told him to vacate. Where I stand though, he doesn't have the votes... and it seems the majority of Republican voters agree with me.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I don't think it needs to be inevitable. One thing I've learned is that... it's easy to become detached from reality based on your own situation and success (or failure) in life. When people who are not seeing things from the same perspective as the masses get put into a situation where they aren't getting their way, they often lash out in ways they wouldn't otherwise. This can reveal a lot about a person, particularly... where their allegiance and drive comes from.
Dan Crenshaw is a good example here... the comments he made the other night, calling the 19-20 people "terrorists," is really apropos to my point. It seems that an "establishment" has already pre-determined how they wanted this to go. It doesn't seem to be working out that way, and now they're even threatening these 20 individuals by saying they're going to strip them of their committee positions. We laughed at the Democrats with their "Super Delegate" nonsense during the primary, which essentially made the primaries more of a "feel-good" thing than anything else. Yet we are willing to accept similar behavior in our own party.
Nothing good has ever come from an establishment Republican. I can think of a few negatives... "Read my lips, no new taxes" (but we got new taxes), or George W. Bush. All of whom I more or less agreed with at the time. Like the idiot that I was, I need to experience failure myself to learn from it... and I have. I don't want establishment quorum. I want someone to go in there and FIGHT, and FIGHT HARD for the things the American people want changed... not to pass legislation that enriches foreign governments, colluding corporations, and American oligarchs.
We're being told to accept the fact that it's inevitable... maybe it is. Kevin McCarthy seems to know something we don't because he's already moved into that office, and the Capitol Police haven't told him to vacate. Where I stand though, he doesn't have the votes... and it seems the majority of Republican voters agree with me.
I keep saying the new house has work to do. The work is the subject of that thread that I began at the end of 2019. If they don't unite and go to work, all is lost.
7th vote? When do they move him out of the office?
Then who?
Ideally, I would like to see them draft Jordan, but he doesn't want the job. So the question remains: Who can get 218 votes today?
Every day they spin their wheels is another day for the mice to play.
The "gang of twenty" is already being branded by the press as extreme, radical, far right wing rebels. Yeah, "we" don't care what they say, just like "we" didn't care what Adam Schiff said. But half the country (and a few on here) believe we are all communist conspirators. This crap needs to stop. NOW!
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 01-05-2023).]
Another way to look at this situation is that the wait is well worth getting some safeguards built in to House procedures to prevent shoving through last minute Omnibus spending bills that are loaded with needless spending.
It will never be drained if they keep f**king around.
Well, tell me something... people keep saying this is the worst thing that could be happening. What really does it matter if there is a 2 or 3 day delay... or even a two week delay? Yeah, I want to see investigations as soon as possible... but I'd much rather have someone in there that's going to do something later, than someone who's going to not do anything at all.
I keep saying the new house has work to do. The work is the subject of that thread that I began at the end of 2019. If they don't unite and go to work, all is lost.
On this... I wasn't disagreeing with you. I absolutely wanted the same thing you did. I certainly wasn't saying we didn't need to investigate, I just said that I've accepted the fact that no one would be charged. I also said this: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...HTML/124451.html#p38
"Louis Lerner didn't get charged, because everyone pretty much knows it was directed by President Obama. But that's the problem... the FBI refused to prosecute, because they knew.
I understand what you're saying. A Trump win or not... we will not see a single Democrat go to jail. I absolutely guarantee that to you, and we can go back to this post 4 years from now when we're talking about 2024."
Unfortunately, I was right. There was one guy who was charged, a low-level FBI staffer, and if I'm not mistaken, he was acquitted of all charges. But the people actually responsible for everything, they all got away... as I said would happen. And they will continue to get away with it. It's a double-standard, and I think people like McCarthy are probably OK with it, maybe even part of it.
If what you're saying is that the point is, this new house needs to get some things done, I guarantee to you that they won't rehash any of these things if McCarthy is made speaker. Guarantee it. All the **** we went through the past four years will be ignored. They may focus on Hunter Biden, but it'll be the only thing they talk about. No January 6, no real investigation of Hillary's abuses of power, or Obamas, none of that.
I absolutely want someone other than McCarthy... someone who's not establishment, someone who the Democrats will call "crazy."
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 01-05-2023).]
I guess what I am really pissed about is that they didn't have this worked out weeks ago. None of this should have been a surprise to anyone.
Now, since Jordan doesn't want to do it, who can do the job? Why didn't they already have someone else ready to go?
This is Joe Biden level stupidity. You know the Dems are taking notes and writing future "news copy" and campaign speeches.
I totally agree with you, but I think this really speaks volumes about what is REALLY happening. My opinion... the "establishment" felt that this was such a lock, that they didn't even consider there would be any real significant pushback. As I write this, the house just had their ninth vote for speaker, and McCarthy failed yet again.
Just being completely honest with you on what I think... I believe the establishment believed everyone was "sufficiently bought," so this would be an easy win.
I think it's important to also address what I mean when I say "establishment." These are the power brokers whom include American oligarchs, large corporations that have a vested interest in things that McCarthy (and house members) might potentially push through the senate, and honestly... foreign influence.
What I've learned about the RNC is that it's not the organized platform we think it is... it's both grassroots to some extent, and also "bought." The local county chapters are expected to play along with big party politics... and when they don't... there's a lot of pressure put on the people at the county and state level. I think what we're seeing here, right now... is the corrupt part of the Republican party trying to push through a vote so they can ensure they'll be able to manage and control the party. The ~20 some odd detractors are not playing ball... and they literally do not know what to do, because they cannot control them... and therefore cannot bribe them.
To me, the big takeaway from this is that there are 200 Republican congressmen who are as deep in the swamp as all of the Dems. They are not going to give up their now opulent lifestyle just because a few do-gooders have a conscience.
My anger is increasing exponentially with each passing day.
All the hand-wringing over the 'delay in government business' is just the same nonsense that is trotted out whenever the government 'is about to shut down!!' Every day they are not in session is a day we are not getting screwed, IMHO, and we should be celebrating instead of worrying.
Looking to Presidential candidate selection history as a guide, I found this interesting quote and I'll go on record as 'hoping' for a dark horse candidate:
quote
But occasionally, a “dark horse” compromise candidate – who may have had just a handful of delegates at the start – eventually was nominated as a way to break a deadlock. Famous dark horses included Warren Harding, nominated on the 10th ballot by the 1920 Republican convention, and John W. Davis, declared the Democratic nominee in 1924 after a record 103 ballots.
You may "talk'o" spending, as in these Omnibus budget legislations.
You should also approve of the funding for the IRS so that it can actually collect more of the revenue that is properly due to the U.S. Treasury, based on the expectations in the IRS tax codes and the requirements that are incumbent upon the federal government, in order for the federal government to effectively govern (federally).
A coin with two sides.
Or more literally, a ledger with two columns.
Fortunately, that "plussing up" of IRS resources was authorized in the Inflation Reduction Act that was passed by Congress and signed by the President some months ago (if memory serves me.)
"Our Plussed-Up IRS, It Must Be Preserved..!" despite the talk that's been heard from some Republicans to try and undo that plussing-up of the IRS, which is a 10-year project that needs to be sustained (budgetarily) over the next 10 years, as the Inflation Reduction Act calls for.
Do I hear a round of applause?
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-05-2023).]
There seems to be a lot of cheering, so I guess that means that McCarthy won. I am willing to bet he ends up being a totally pathetic house speaker. I hope I'm proven wrong...
This has more of the action. It starts with some kind of verbal interaction between Matt Gaetz, who remains seated, and Kevin McCarthy, who walks up the aisle to verbalize with Gaetz. At 1:21, Mike Rogers (R) from Alabama comes into view at the top of the aisle and walks down towards Kevin McCarthy and the row where Gaetz is seated. Rogers starts to edge closer to Gaetz, when Richard Hudson (R) from North Carolin, who had also come down the aisle, grabs Rogers from behind, putting his hands on Roger's shoulders, and then, at 1:33, the Face Masking no-call, which left astonished viewers all across the nation shaking their heads and asking "Where was the Sergeant At Arms?"
When reporters asked why a Challenge Flag wasn't thrown, the Parliamentarian of the House came on to explain that it's not one of the "reviewable" no-calls.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-07-2023).]
