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So yeah, this had to happen... by Cliff Pennock
Started on: 10-21-2021 05:43 AM
Replies: 42 (1079 views)
Last post by: Trinten on 11-11-2021 12:50 PM
Cliff Pennock
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Report this Post10-21-2021 05:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Cliff PennockClick Here to visit Cliff Pennock's HomePageClick Here to Email Cliff PennockSend a Private Message to Cliff PennockEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't expect everybody on PFF to get along with each other. Just like in real life, some people just rub you the wrong way. It's part of every day life. But, some people apparently hate each other to the bone. They go out of their way to post derogatory remarks in each other's posts. Why? Just because they can.

Well, that's where I step in and make sure they can't.

I've added a new functionality to the forum and that is that the forum simply does not permit specific members to post in specific other members' threads. So if you are trying to post in someone's thread and you get a message you are not allowed to, that's because I've added you to each other's blacklist. This isn't something you can set yourself. It's something only I have access to. It was a necessary function I had to add to the forum since it was getting out of hand, especially in TO/T.

Sure, they can still go at each other in threads neither of them started. But if they do, I will consider that thread-hijacking which is cause for an immediate ban or a probation at the minimum.
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Report this Post10-21-2021 08:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for steve308Send a Private Message to steve308Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Outstanding!
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Report this Post10-21-2021 08:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for steve308Send a Private Message to steve308Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Listening for the sound of heads exploding over in O/T
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Patrick
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Report this Post10-21-2021 04:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't think it will affect me personally. I'm not sure what I think of it. I dont think I like it because it limits some peoples interactions with people they disagree with, and that is needed for a healthy society. But I do understand, and I would add it is a little more palatable that it isnt themselves creating the blacklists directly. I suppose time will tell.

I havent seen those who are happy about it here so far use OT much.
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Report this Post10-21-2021 04:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

I havent seen those who are happy about it here so far use OT much.


Excuse me? Over the years I've wasted more than my fair share of time in O/T. And you know it. However, I eventually just got fed up with feeling like I needed a shower after spending any time in "discussion" with certain individuals there.
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Report this Post10-21-2021 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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Report this Post10-21-2021 05:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like it. I think it will go a long ways towards eliminating the tendency for some forum members to go out of their way just to insult certain other forum members, to the point where threads were actually being "hijacked" just for that purpose.


------------------
Viva la revolución del 15 de agosto

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82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post10-21-2021 06:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Excuse me? Over the years I've wasted more than my fair share of time in O/T. And you know it. However, I eventually just got fed up with feeling like I needed a shower after spending any time in "discussion" with certain individuals there.



Hahaha... I need a shower after looking at your avatar! (I kid...)
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Report this Post10-21-2021 06:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Personally, I do not like to see anyone silenced. I think that people should be free to make fools of themselves, for all the world to see. It can be both entertaining and enlightening.
But that is just the opinion of an old, retired gearjammer.
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Report this Post10-21-2021 06:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
Personally, I do not like to see anyone silenced. I think that people should be free to make fools of themselves, for all the world to see. It can be both entertaining and enlightening.
But that is just the opinion of an old, retired gearjammer.

Hypothetical: Forum member "anti-williegoat" (fictional) shows up almost every time after "williegoat" posts, and posts a message that is nothing more than a thinly veiled or ineptly contrived contrivance that says--when all the pretense is stripped away--"F*ck You, williegoat."

It's not just a hypothetical.

No one is going to be silenced by this forum software innovation, but some are going to have their megaphone taken away from them--and rightly so.
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Report this Post10-21-2021 07:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

Hypothetical: Forum member "anti-williegoat" (fictional) shows up almost every time after "williegoat" posts, and posts a message that is nothing more than a thinly veiled or ineptly contrived contrivance that says--when all the pretense is stripped away--"F*ck You, williegoat."

It's not just a hypothetical.

No one is going to be silenced by this forum software innovation, but some are going to have their megaphone taken away from them--and rightly so.

Correct, it is not just hypothetical, unique or anything new. That is why I say, "I think that people should be free to make fools of themselves, for all the world to see."
My patience is rooted in experience.
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Report this Post10-21-2021 07:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

I think that people should be free to make fools of themselves, for all the world to see. It can be both entertaining and enlightening.


I find it to be the same old same old nasty crap. It got real old years ago. I'm delighted to learn of this change taking place at PFF. It's a positive step in the right direction.
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Report this Post10-21-2021 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

Hahaha... I need a shower after looking at your avatar! (I kid...)


Todd, the less said about your avatar the better.
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Report this Post10-21-2021 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Originally posted by Patrick:



Second this sentiment.
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Sorry that you had to take the time to add this feature, but thank you for doing so, hopefully it will help.

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Report this Post10-22-2021 09:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FatsClick Here to Email FatsSend a Private Message to FatsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

Personally, I do not like to see anyone silenced. I think that people should be free to make fools of themselves, for all the world to see. It can be both entertaining and enlightening.
But that is just the opinion of an old, retired gearjammer.




Just block the person from seeing the other persons post, don't stop them from having a voice in a thread. Even the ones I disagree with almost all the time should have a voice. They shouldn't be trolling, or just name calling.
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Report this Post10-22-2021 12:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 10-22-2021).]

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Report this Post10-22-2021 05:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't know what the % of negs will get you put on probation but with the limited number of active people perhaps now its not enough.
Use to be able to self police but now its always the same thing over and over and the fear of getting the boot has lost its sting.
Unless Cliff steps in its hard to use the rating system to even attempt at making a difference.
Perhaps make everyone's rating bar visible will help, some feed back for newer members.
Then lower the number it takes to put someone on probation so they are given a chance to mend their ways. (is probation even automatic?)

Oh and **** you that's why.

**I miss having a Fiero, I hope that one day soon I can get one again. Thank you Cliff for keeping the lights on.
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Report this Post10-22-2021 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe Bloozberry will come back.
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Report this Post10-22-2021 08:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

Maybe Bloozberry will come back.


I wish he and a LOT of the people who were innovators in the Fiero world would come back to this forum. Dave (Bloozberry) had a lot of engineering knowledge and that made his build very interesting.
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Report this Post10-22-2021 10:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:
I don't know what the % of negs will get you put on probation but with the limited number of active people perhaps now its not enough.
Yup, Most members haven't gotten a single point either direction in months to years. Most new members will never get a ratings bar for same reasons.

Original idea was users can "Speed Ban" gross abusers. But Now Low Active Users is the problem w/ that setup and near impossible to activate "Speed Banning" now.
"Speed Banning" was partly to help members ageist Spammers and related so Cliff didn't need to watch 24/7 but now they get banned only when users email to cliff or use the report button or cliff sees a spam post hours to days later.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


The Ogre's Fiero Cave

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Report this Post10-22-2021 10:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:
I've added a new functionality to the forum and that is that the forum simply does not permit specific members to post in specific other members' threads. So if you are trying to post in someone's thread and you get a message you are not allowed to, that's because I've added you to each other's blacklist. This isn't something you can set yourself. It's something only I have access to. It was a necessary function I had to add to the forum since it was getting out of hand, especially in TO/T.

Sure, they can still go at each other in threads neither of them started. But if they do, I will consider that thread-hijacking which is cause for an immediate ban or a probation at the minimum.
Most of these flame wars have been going on for Years and now you bother doing a "firewall" between some members or groups?
Then add Admin Censoring is Why you created PFF or did you forget or just ignore that statement?

While trying to Censor some users May reduce work for you... Can reduce page views and thus Ad $ as well as many lurkers and members want the "drama" when some people go flaming others more so in TO/T that's now likely your main view generator. Many TO/T Threads in the last Decade and more are made to start fights just for that reason.

Is bad enough already had to edit/delete whole threads to make Google happy just to get Ad $ again. Now everyone needs to watch images and photos or can get banned. It's a Wonder that Google didn't just ban PFF for TO/T entirely because many threads can be labeled as Hate Speech, Racist, Hard Right, etc. at Google's whim or people "reporting" PFF to Google.
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Report this Post10-23-2021 12:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for skywurzClick Here to visit skywurz's HomePageSend a Private Message to skywurzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Can reduce page views and thus Ad $ as well


The only Ads I remember ever seeing on here are The Fiero Store and a link to buy Cliff a beer... Id imagine that banner is probably a flat rate agreement at this point....

Edit:

Iirc the reason Cliff fixed https was because googles algorithms started making non https sites unfavorable thus lower in the searches. That was a true shame seeing as this forum is probably the best and most complete knowledgebase regarding our cars. Its fixed and now wayward Fiero owners can now find info higher up in their searches.

[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 10-23-2021).]

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Report this Post10-23-2021 09:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for steve308Send a Private Message to steve308Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If only there was a vaccine for 'dumb assery' that could have been administered to a few select individuals this could have been avoided. I wish those few select individuals who have chosen to disagree with each other on every single thing would simply email each other and fight it out between themselves.
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Report this Post10-24-2021 02:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by skywurz:
The only Ads I remember ever seeing on here are The Fiero Store and a link to buy Cliff a beer... Id imagine that banner is probably a flat rate agreement at this point....

Edit:

Iirc the reason Cliff fixed https was because googles algorithms started making non https sites unfavorable thus lower in the searches. That was a true shame seeing as this forum is probably the best and most complete knowledgebase regarding our cars. Its fixed and now wayward Fiero owners can now find info higher up in their searches.
PFF uses Ads at left of the Thread Title, at PFF System Bot "posts" in a thread (Current 3 such "posts" in this thread), at left bottom next to All times are ET (US), and likely elsewhere unless your browser has ad blockers, NoScript, and some other plugins.

Correct... https is "required" to show up in Google search and others now. W/o that a site may show up but buried often pages down a list.
The Encryption/HTTPS Everywhere program isn't really to protect users but give Google et al more ways to control what you see and people that run Verisign letsencrypt.org etc that can cancel the Keys that https needs at any time w/o Warning to basically Kill any site.

My Cave and many, Many, others get little value having https and eats more time and often money to use that. Part of Why the Cave is at archive.org only now.
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Report this Post10-24-2021 11:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree that hateful speech and profanity directed towards another forum member is unacceptable but "hateful speech" is a very subjective term. If you disagree with someones approach , project, advice or method, say so and offer a correction, I see no problem with that. I only see issues with name calling and where the thread turns personal. If we keep the conversation to Fieros, projects, restorations and repairs that go with them that should be good enough but respectful, disagreements and criticisms about things (not people) should be allowed.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post10-24-2021 01:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Blacklist Larry Hubbert from posting in the Mall.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 10-24-2021).]

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Report this Post10-24-2021 01:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for skywurzClick Here to visit skywurz's HomePageSend a Private Message to skywurzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

[PFF uses Ads at left of the Thread Title, at PFF System Bot "posts" in a thread (Current 3 such "posts" in this thread), at left bottom next to All times are ET (US), and likely elsewhere unless your browser has ad blockers, NoScript, and some other plugins.



Im mostly in mobile and the system bots posts don't show up in that view. When i look at the regular page with my blockers turned off (that's a feat because my home network run 2 blocking methods plus my systems blockers) system bot is there but the posts are always blank. Even in non blocking browsers like IE. This has been this way for at least the past year or so I've been back.

ADs have changed in the last 8 years. Just the programming, tracking and most of the time modifications to your TOS in order to support some of the ones that are not viruses and adult content is staggering. Most legit companies don't want an AD for them right above something "insensitive" or "hateful" as it will be seen as sponsoring therefore approving of it. So you have to change your TOS and police this behavior to keep those clean adverts coming in.


 
quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:

Blacklist Larry Hubbert from posting in the Mall.





While I almost want to agree, he may have good days where people do get valuable parts they need. People don't typically go online and post when things go the way they are suppose to.....

[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 10-24-2021).]

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Raydar
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Report this Post10-24-2021 04:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I still think that people should be able to block other people whose posts they don't want to view. (Conversely, if you block somebody, they won't be able to see your posts, either.)
Don't other forums implement that?
That way, nobody is stopped from posting. Everybody gets to see posts from those who they want.
Don't like a vendor? They can still do their thing, but you don't have to be annoyed by them.

I might suggest that it could even be selected by different areas of the Forum. Block someone from justO/T, or just the Mall, etc.

With that said... I'm a member of lots of Fiero groups on Facebook. One morning I ended up blocking a couple dozen people who were being particular posterior orifices to one person. (The target of their attacks has been freely supporting/assisting the Fiero community for decades. He certainly didn't deserve all the crap.)
I haven't missed them at all, and my stress level immediately dropped. (That's about the only advantage I can think of that FB has over the Forum.)

Anyone?

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-24-2021).]

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Cliff Pennock
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Report this Post10-26-2021 08:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Cliff PennockClick Here to visit Cliff Pennock's HomePageClick Here to Email Cliff PennockSend a Private Message to Cliff PennockEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:
Then add Admin Censoring is Why you created PFF or did you forget or just ignore that statement?


Errrrr... I created PFF because I hated over-moderated forums and newsgroups. Or where everybody was tip-toeing around the almighty moderator. I'm not sure how may forums you know where you can go all-out on the moderator and not get banned because of it. As for censoring, there has always been some form of censoring since there are quite a few things I do not tolerate on this forum. If you are unwilling to respect the rules set here, then you'll lose some rights (like the ability to post in certain people's threads) or at worst, get banned.

 
quote
While trying to Censor some users May reduce work for you...


This tool does not censor anyone. It simply prevents two people from posting in each other's threads since time has proven that the only reason they are posting in each other's threads, is to belittle each other.

 
quote
Can reduce page views and thus Ad $ as well as many lurkers and members want the "drama" when some people go flaming others more so in TO/T that's now likely your main view generator.


There's no correlation between "drama" and ad income. 😄 "Drama" threads do not generate more ad income than other threads. In fact, TO/T isn't even the most read section. It most certainly doesn't attract the most users.

 
quote
Many TO/T Threads in the last Decade and more are made to start fights just for that reason.


What?

 
quote
Is bad enough already had to edit/delete whole threads to make Google happy just to get Ad $ again. Now everyone needs to watch images and photos or can get banned.


If you walk in a bar, do you put a **** picture up on the wall? And even if you did, are you going to complain to the owner if he takes it down? And when he does, and you put it up again, do you think it's all that crazy if he tells you to leave the premises?

 
quote
It's a Wonder that Google didn't just ban PFF for TO/T entirely because many threads can be labeled as Hate Speech, Racist, Hard Right, etc. at Google's whim or people "reporting" PFF to Google.


Yep. Closing TO/T would make my life a lot easier because every single time I got a warning from Google, it was because of some post in TO/T (and up to now, really only because of nudity, nothing else). ANd I want to keep Google happy because ads and donations are what keeps PFF alive. If I have to delete a few threads in TO/T (that have nothing to do with Fieros and are in fact not in the spirit of TO/T) to keep PFF running, I won't think twice. Consider the alternative. And that is PFF gone in its entirety. Besides, only a handful of (entire) threads were ever deleted for this purpose.
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Cliff Pennock
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Report this Post10-26-2021 08:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Cliff PennockClick Here to visit Cliff Pennock's HomePageClick Here to Email Cliff PennockSend a Private Message to Cliff PennockEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

I still think that people should be able to block other people whose posts they don't want to view. (Conversely, if you block somebody, they won't be able to see your posts, either.)


Yes, but that's a lot harder to implement than you think. You would also need to filter out quotes from this person as well. Or responses to this person's posts. There's no good way to do it, really. If all you really want is not seeing posts from a specific person (but still see his quoted texts etc), then that's fairly simple to implement.

 
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Don't other forums implement that?


I don't know. I don't visit other forums. 😁


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David Hambleton
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Report this Post10-26-2021 11:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for David HambletonClick Here to Email David HambletonSend a Private Message to David HambletonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Cliff, thanks for keeping the forum going and trying to maintain at least a basic level of civility.
Sometimes I wonder if the kids that needed to be told to "play nicely" in pre-school are the same adults that need the same basic life instruction...
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2.5
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Report this Post10-26-2021 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Patrick:

... I eventually just got fed up...


 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

It got real old years ago.


Yes, my point, you dont go there much (anymore).
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Report this Post10-26-2021 02:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

2.5

42389 posts
Member since May 2007
 
quote
Originally posted by David Hambleton:

Hey Cliff, thanks for keeping the forum going and trying to maintain at least a basic level of civility.
Sometimes I wonder if the kids that needed to be told to "play nicely" in pre-school are the same adults that need the same basic life instruction...


I agree thanks for continuing the dedication Cliff.
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Raydar
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Report this Post11-04-2021 08:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:

...that's a lot harder to implement than you think.

I don't visit other forums. 😁


Fair enough. Thanks for looking.
As they say... "Keep on keepin' on!"
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Hudini
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Report this Post11-05-2021 05:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is there a way to filter the thread out if started by a certain individual? I'm not talking every post in other threads, just the whole thread started by a certain person?
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