Hellow, I have just joined your forum after looking at many of your posts trying to get my 4 cyl. running. I finally got it running and as they are known to do, it caught fire. Not much damage though as I had my fire ext. ready.
However that was the last straw, I now want to install a low HP SB crate motor in it.
This is a pic. It is a street machine and lots of fun driving. I am looking for some clear pic's of an engine installed in an 84. Thank you.
AND a big thankyou to every one that had posted on diagnosing a unrunning engine that has helped me get mine running.
I don't think my pic went through, I will try later.
Welcome to the fun of fieros. Glad you got yours running, sad to hear it caught fire. As far as putting a low HP small block crate motor goes I would tell you this. Forget a crate motor and put a caddy 4.9 in it. The swap is the easiest to do. You get plenty of low end torque with the V8 sounds with out all the extra pieces and work of any other swap. Search here and you will see lots of info on how easy the swap is.
4.9 NoStar probably the worst engine GM ever made next to the HT4100. Go with an LS or SBC, you'll only do it once and it will be bulletproof. Do a Google search on Caddy engines. > https://itstillruns.com/cad...roblems-6637955.html
quote
Cadillac Northstar Engine Problems
•Oiling Issues. Far and away, most of the Northstar's issues have to do with oiling. …
•Oil Consumption. It's not unusual for pre-2000 engines to go through as much as a quart of oil every 500 miles. …
•Carbon in the Cylinders. …
•Blown Head Gaskets.
They left out Warped heads, cracked heads, head bolts pull out of the block, and the 3 piece block with NO GASKETS that always leaks.
I add my name to the 4.5L/4.9L V8 swap club. Best performance at the lightest weight, and lowest cost per dollar, while still getting 27-29 hwy MPG. . Even if you purchase a ready made plug and play harness, you should be able to complete this swap, engine and all, for under $2,000. Locating a V6 cradle will simplify things.
4.9 NoStar probably the worst engine GM ever made next to the HT4100. Go with an LS or SBC, you'll only do it once and it will be bulletproof. Do a Google search on Caddy engines. > https://itstillruns.com/cad...roblems-6637955.html
They left out Warped heads, cracked heads, head bolts pull out of the block, and the 3 piece block with NO GASKETS that always leaks.
It was... the 4.9 is a pushrod engine, the Northstar is 4.6L and quad valve and dohc. Completely different engines.
Since you are not looking for a rocket ship, the 4.9 is definitely easier and cheaper than the SBC, but the SBC, Northstar, and LS4 have a lot more performance potential. The 4.9 also isn't an easy engine to make look clean and clutter free, which may or may not be of interest to you.
All gauges, cruise, AC and Fuel pump will work without any ECM... that is once of the nice things about the Fiero. They are very basic from an electrical perspective and easy to swap whatever you want into.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 05-02-2020).]
It was... the 4.9 is a pushrod engine, the Northstar is 4.6L and quad valve and dohc. Completely different engines.
Since you are not looking for a rocket ship, the 4.9 is definitely easier and cheaper than the SBC, but the SBC, Northstar, and LS4 have a lot more performance potential. The 4.9 also isn't an easy engine to make look clean and clutter free, which may or may not be of interest to you.
All gauges, cruise, AC and Fuel pump will work without any ECM... that is once of the nice things about the Fiero. They are very basic from an electrical perspective and easy to swap whatever you want into.
Does that mean that I leave in my ECM or remove it?
The stock fiero ECM is normally removed when non-stock engines are swapped in. If the new engine is fuel injected, then the ecm to run the new engine is installed.
Another vote for the 4.9 or 4.5 engine. It's said to be one of the easiest swaps. Mine loves the interstate, gets good mileage and still has a bunch of torque down low for red lights. Having a V8 in a Fiero is an oddity to most people you meet.
Go with the 4.5/4.9 it is a awesome engine. I have a 4.5l in my 86GT that was built by johns 4.9 performance. Gobs of power and very fun. Super easy install.
Go with the 4.5/4.9 it is a awesome engine. I have a 4.5l in my 86GT that was built by johns 4.9 performance. Gobs of power and very fun. Super easy install.
"The overall weight of the Cadillac 4.9 engine is 360 lbs.* A Chevy 2.8 V-6 engine weighs in at 350 lbs and a small block Chevy V-8 is about 550lbs.* With its square bore and stroke ratio, the 4.9 port fuel injected engine delivers 200hp and 275 ft/lbs of torque."
The stock fiero ECM is normally removed when non-stock engines are swapped in. If the new engine is fuel injected, then the ecm to run the new engine is installed.
So when I buy the engine from a salvage yard, I have to get the ecm and cut out part of the wiring harness in order to connect it up?
Originally posted by Roger Walling: Can you just plug it into the Fiero connections?
If you buy a custom harness specifically designed to install engine A into a Fiero, then the answer is yes. Install the custom harness on the engine, put engine into Fiero, connect the Fiero 203, 500, battery, and ground connections and you will have an engine swap that will run electrically (still need to address mounts, fuel, cooling, exhaust, etc.).
If you want to go the DIY route, to connect any engine to the Fiero, there are 3 primary connection points. ECM connections (most are different for each engine type, but these will come with the factory harness for whatever engine you are going to install). Fiero 203 connector (this is in the center conlsole area by the ecm) is the wiring source for Injector power, fuel pump, check engine light, oil pressure gauge, Speedo, AC and torque converter lockup). Fiero 500 connector (on the front engine firewall on the 84, by the passenger strut tower on the 85-87) is the wiring source for starter, ignition, alternator gauge, temp gauge, cooling fan, reverse lights.
At the bare minimum, the new engine and its donor harness will need to connect to the Fiero 203 and 500 connectors, but most other non-fiero engines do not use those specific connectors. The needed wires exist in the donor engine harness for all the systems and sensors that need connected to the 203 and 500 connectors, but you will need to isolate those wires in the donor harness and terminate then at the proper pin locations in the Fiero 203 and 500 connection points. It isn't difficult work, but it does require the ability to read wiring schematics, not be intimidated by a harness with 50 to 100+ wires, and have the skills and tools to make the proper electrical connections (twisted wire with tape won't work long).
There are many ways to do this. Strip the Fiero harness to just the 203 and 500 wires then splice them into the donor harness. Take the donor harness and repin its wires to fit the 203 and 500 connectors, a combination of the two, or a complete disassemble of both to reroute the wires where you want them to improve the overall appearance of the engine.
The time you take making everything neat, tidy, and clean looking will pay dividends every time you pop the decklid to show off your engine (and with a V8 in the back, people will stop you and ask to see it all the time!).
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 05-03-2020).]
Thank you fieroguru. I think the way that I will go is to buy the harness.
I would like to post a pic of my car, as it is not the most conventional car. It is in fact, 4' longer and the passenger sits behind the driver in a compartment that is about 2' wide and the rear has been narrowed 8". I tried to post the pic, but no luck so far.
I just posted a pic in the AACA web site (https://forums.aaca.org/ ) in the general discussion section with the heading below.
"84 Fiero now running. By Roger Walling, Thursday at 06:52 PM" Roger
[This message has been edited by Roger Walling (edited 05-03-2020).]
I used the Pennocks Image Poster (icon at the bottom center below) to load the pics... No resizing was needed.
Dave, as much as I promoted the use of PIP here over the years, the new Upload Image feature that Cliff has implemented is way better. It allows uploading of mega-pixel images and automatically re-sizes them. PIP can be put out to pasture now.
Everyone is providing excellent advice on the matter. I just want to add in, price and amount of work wise, the sbc requires a bit of dough if you buy all the swap parts, or a bit of work if you do all the fabricating yourself. And by a bit, I mean a lot. It's an excellent choice and totally worth the work/money if you want a high power build because there is so much aftermarket support, mods etc to build up to pretty much any power level you want (and it can be done without hacking the frame). But like pretty much everyone else mentioned, if you want a low power v8 (still more power than the Fiero 4cyl or v6 of course) the Cadillac 4.9 is a better value.
. But like pretty much everyone else mentioned, if you want a low power v8 (still more power than the Fiero 4cyl or v6 of course) the Cadillac 4.9 is a better value.
I wouldn't call 275 ft lbs of 4.9L torque low power. Its a 63% increase in torque over what the 2.8L has at about the same weight. I believe that with the improved full flow exhaust systems that many of us have you may be pushing 280 or 285ft lbs at the flywheel. It won't be as fast at an LS2, 3 or 4 or a classic SBC but if you consider all factors; weight, cost, mileage, smooth cruising, high reliability and ease of swap, the 4.9L is a pretty good overall choice. If you want a higher revving engine that's very similar then try the 4.5L Allante engine. Before all is sad and done, decide, if you want to spend $10K on a swap or less than $2k?
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
As I have my fuel tank in the rear luggage compartment, I an concerned with the heat from the rear exhaust manifold. I have been told that ceramic coating the manifolds inside and out will reduce the heat transfer by 50%. Is there insulation that I could line the rear compartment that would reduce the heat transfer even more?
I plan on installing air scoops in the side of the fuel compartment and maybe even a blower to vent the heat.
I have never seen what the exhaust system looks like in a V8 installation, where does one place the muffler and the tailpipes?
A pic or a diagram would be very helpful in order to avoid any mistakes on my part.
As I have my fuel tank in the rear luggage compartment, I an concerned with the heat from the rear exhaust manifold. I have been told that ceramic coating the manifolds inside and out will reduce the heat transfer by 50%. Is there insulation that I could line the rear compartment that would reduce the heat transfer even more?
I plan on installing air scoops in the side of the fuel compartment and maybe even a blower to vent the heat.
I have never seen what the exhaust system looks like in a V8 installation, where does one place the muffler and the tailpipes?
A pic or a diagram would be very helpful in order to avoid any mistakes on my part.
I have noticed that at least one person had routed his exhaust to exit in front of the rear wheels. Would this give more room for a larger (and quieter) ex system? I don't think that I will need a cat. converter.
I have noticed that at least one person had routed his exhaust to exit in front of the rear wheels. Would this give more room for a larger (and quieter) ex system? I don't think that I will need a cat. converter.
The 4.9 that I did used a Fiero style exhaust system and was not loud. I also used two of the heat shields between the exhaust and trunk. I simply doubled them up (stacked them). In addition, I used some heat shielding mat material inside the trunk under the carpet. The trunk is safe from heat and is totally stock, no modifications to it's size or shape.
