im gonna start filtering request carefully and if they dont have any fiero backround on their page they will be denied. anybody starting issues or anyone i see bringing up unrelated topics will be banned. for everyone else if you see any of shauns antics and many facebooks wich we know itll happen. pm it to me personally. thanks.
-----------------------------
So is Facebook perfect? No, and Shaunbag continues his antics over there, so they have defenses set up to prevent him from joining.
The other bad thing is that Facebook is trying to be more like Snapchat and have expiring pictures and posts that disappear after so many hours. That really really sucks. They want it to be a real-time thing and not like a forum. I suppose that has it's uses but it can never replace this forum as a valuable archive. Now if only we could get the picture uploader to automatically resize the pics everything would be so much better.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 03-30-2017).]
Well, if facebook expires content after a few hours, you have to check in every few hours or miss out and get left behind. It also frees up space on their servers. For the suckers that fall for this, it's a win-win for facebook.
Well, if facebook expires content after a few hours, you have to check in every few hours or miss out and get left behind. It also frees up space on their servers. For the suckers that fall for this, it's a win-win for facebook.
Facebook doesn't do that. I can find things years old.
In response to anyone interested: For example in a group or on a page (different but similar things) there is a lot of visual activity that takes up screen space, its not listed in a small text line that you open up to see more of like this forum. You have to scroll down, a lot, as if its normal, or search within the group for example. The bonus is once you comment pr post you get notified of any response to that thread/ post. (Which is kind of like PFFs subscribe feature.)
Facebook has annoyances,but it is a great way to reach a certain audience, mostly but not all, "younger" folks. Example: Our Minnesota Fiero club is putting on a Back To The 80s car show in June (open to not just Fieros) and between Jan and now we have 200 cars signed up, pre paid. (Via online registration and payment, more new fangled tech) It was almost entirely facebook advertised so far. Id say 95%. Facebook is a tool just like anything else, its in how you use it. A handy thing is communication between groups and pages. As if PFF were sharing directly with other car forums, cross advertising.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 03-30-2017).]
I don't think Facebook is to blame. I am on a couple of forums and they are going strong. I think people are just moving away from the Fiero and there is not much there to entice new comers, especially when the majority of the kids today won't even give it a second look when they are all gung ho about the WSX, etc.
But I do agree that it is an "effort" to upload pictures here. The other forums I am on allow you to drag and drop and will re-size the pictures for you - actually they will show a smaller picture in the thread and allow you to click on it to see the full size version.
I am on a couple of forums and they are going strong. I think people are just moving away from the Fiero and there is not much there to entice new comers, especially when the majority of the kids today won't even give it a second look when they are all gung ho about the WSX, etc.
I dont think so. Are those other groups about an 80s car that was only made for 5 years? We are a small pool to begin with. But if any of you are thinking younger kids aren't paying Fiero enough attention, being more involved on facebook is a way to get it more attention by them.
Originally posted by jscott1: for everyone else if you see any of shauns antics and many facebooks wich we know itll happen. pm it to me personally. thanks.
Just an FYI, I am posting this information so you can see it, as well as any other Facebook groups.
shawnbag posted over 150 messages in the Daytona car show group. (We screen captured each and every one). We had 5 people keeping up with deleting his childish antics as fast as we could. During that time, he used 4 different fake Facebook accounts, so be on the look out for any of these:
1) Tony Vallancourt 2) David F Runyard 3) Johncarlow Motzahbalah 4) Christine Dusome
He really is a special kind of deranged, as he was using those names to post and talk about shawn in the third person, and using then using those 4 accounts to talk to each of the other fake accounts! LOL!
We had to resort to calling the Daytona Police and filing a report after he threatened to flatten tires, and pour brake fluid on our Fieros.
I am still waiting to hear back from them. We gave the police a ton of information, everything we had screen captured, and printed out in the business center this weekend. plus all the stuff we have compiled over the past 4 years. We knew there were going to be problems, so we made sure to bring everything from the past with us.
The officer told me they may not be able to do anything directly, as it may be in the town of Deland's jurisdiction, and if so she would turn over everything over to them. She said they were a smaller agency, but they did actually have a cyber division. I guess "CSI Cyber" is not just for television any more
I think people's disposable income is also a factor. I notice that even LS1 tech has less volume now than it did a few years ago. Especially in the LS4 section.
I have probably posted over 1000 pictures to PFF over the years. I have never minded the effort, but I auto resize with photobucket and bulk upload the pictures. I can then copy/paste the entire post from PFF to several other forums, which significantly reduces overall post time on 2-3 forums. I also believe the commentary with the picture is as important if not more important than the picture itself. So fast picture uploading is only part of the equation - fast typing also comes into play for me.
I do a lot of reading of PFF and some occasional posting from my phone, but if I am going to update one of my build threads I normally post from one of my laptops.
He really is a special kind of deranged, as he was using those names to post and talk about shawn in the third person, and using then using those 4 accounts to talk to each of the other fake accounts! LOL!
We had to resort to calling the Daytona Police and filing a report after he threatened to flatten tires, and pour brake fluid on our Fieros.
I am still waiting to hear back from them.
There is something seriously wrong with that guy. He will eventually have a violent demise when he crosses the line and someone has to end the threat permanently. He has made so many terrorist threats he could easily be arrested and convicted if the police ever bother to follow up on them.
In short Facebook is millennial driven IMHO. That means short attention span. The maintaining and customizing of a Fiero is not on their bucket list.....they don't have a bucket list yet. Lets face it not many people were big fans of the car back when it was in production, many people today don't know what it is when you mention it.People that love Fieros were mostly around when they initially came out and that group is getting too old to get in or out of them, and some unfortunately dying off. If you spend 3-4 years doing a car then your body won't let you enjoy it, that is a loss to the Fiero community.
I had seven but am having to part ways now with some of them as I will no longer have time to devote to them as I thought I would. I just sold one of them yesterday for way less than it was worth.
------------------ 1988 GT, 6Cyl Automatic, running - bought in Illinois and drove to Austin 1986 SE, 4 cyl, 5 speed running - Bought in California and drove to Austin 1988 GT, T-Top - non running - "Trailered" back from California going to be restored (in storage) 1986 GT, highly modified engine/exhaust, Clutch slave cylinder issue - Trailered back from Las Cruces, NM Chop-top candidate (in storage) 1986 SE, bought locally, Automatic won't shift into gear - Chop-top candidate 1987 GT Tangerine/Silver - 1986 roller with automatic transmission
So far I agree with a lot that has been said about PFF, Facebook, and other social media in general.
Coming from a Millennial who thoroughly enjoys wrenching on my Fiero, I really do think that a PFF smartphone app would be really nice; I don't think Cliff will make an app, but it'd be really nice. I have a Miata and frequent a Miata forum, they have an app and I find myself using it more than the website for casual browsing; for searching, nothing really beats using "site:(insert website here)" on google. But, if there is one thing that no forum can beat PFF on though is the colors of the forum. PFF is beautiful to look at for hours on end, it's so easy on my eyes
One other decline in Fiero interest is that most Millennials don't know how or want to wrench and get dirty working on cars (some present company excluded). These cars have to be worked on, maybe not daily, but there is upkeep that most new cars today just don't have to have (sans oil changes, but most people pay someone else to do it anyway). How many Millennials know how to grease balljoints or hand pack wheel bearings; or, heaven forbid, drop the cradle?
The year and a half I spent with my dad learning from him to get my Fiero back in sound working and mechanical order is very dear to me. It was a really good time and my dad and I got even closer for it; the Fiero holds that value for me, and I don't think I'll ever be able to bring myself to sell it.
The one thing that pretty much every Millennial has had the face of "I love this, but it's so stupid, but I can't help but smile" is when I've shown them the popup headlights. That alone made it worth fighting through problems with the Gen2 motors and not being able to get those to work, then rebuilding the Gen1 motors (that was a pain, thankfully I wasn't the first one to rebuild them).
Sorry for going off topic. I love PFF, I used to just come here to lurk and look at the photos. I just wish more were uploaded
Ps: On a side note; no other forum, that I've been to, has as many photos as PFF does. I wish they did
But, if there is one thing that no forum can beat PFF on though is the colors of the forum. PFF is beautiful to look at for hours on end, it's so easy on my eyes.
Heh heh... funny you bring that up. The old timers here will remember that a bunch of years ago, Cliff changed the color scheme. It was gawd-awful and the PFF membership revolted. We got our old colors back.
Heh heh... funny you bring that up. The old timers here will remember that a bunch of years ago, Cliff changed the color scheme. It was gawd-awful and the PFF membership revolted. We got our old colors back.
Funny you bring that up My dad told me a couple stories about the color changes. Glad we can fly our colors proudly!
Say what you want about FB, but the only folks posting here will soon be just a handful of anti-facebook dinosaurs. Yes it's hard to find things later on FB but for real time day to day interesting conversation it can't be beat. Posting pics on PFF is about as fun as going to the dentist as the OP pointed out. On FB it's so easy even a caveman could do it.
This forum, (like most forums) is dying. I keep coming here every day hoping to see new posts but fewer and fewer reasons every time.
Not so..I don't do facebook anymore .. but any user can make a sub page and post their build there and only there.. keeping the other crap out of it.. like Hi jay you going to the bar Friday../ec And have the build in one place easy to find.. and follow.
As for some of the other activity, yes, we've been through it before, but here it is, again. Suppose you have a bunch of enthusiasm. You bought your Fiero, and have great plans for it. You post on here to share some enthusiasm. Maybe you make some newbie mistakes. Other members respond, but often the responses trend more in the hostile territory than the welcoming and supportive territory.
?
Bingo..
And those lurkers see that..
I got completely blasted when I said, hello I just bought an indy to use as my daily driver.. You'd think I was killing it driving it.
I've been here a long time, and there have always been some people leaving for various reasons. Plenty have left just because they got rid of their car, got tired of dealing with the car, health reasons, or died.
But over the past several years, I have watched a lot of people leave the forum because they got tired of the huge increase in hatred that has filled the pages of PFF, from the vocal minority. Most of the hate is contained in TOT, but it often spills over into other sections of the forum. PFF used to be A LOT more diverse in membership. The African American, LGBTQ, and female population of the forum has gone WAY down over the past several years.
It would be great if we could bring back the diversity and knowledge that's been lost on this forum due to the hate, and get some new blood into the fold to keep the Fiero love going, but it's a bit Sisyphean right now.
Biggest problem is that many people have downsized... They don't have internet And phone.. They have phone and free wifi. As the cable and internet cost have got to high for many.. Another is they have family. and children.. so .their time gets used there.. so they may pop on here on lunch break.. limiting time. to post. so they lurk more.. Many others seem to be in the retired group now.. that was into these in the late 90's on.. that a low and hard to get into out of car is not ideal. I can't stand trying to post from my phone here or any other forum.. Might be better on a tablet that the text isn't so small.. Internet here for basic is over 50 bucks a month.. many don't have that to spend. Many others have gone from being clueless on vehicle mechanicals to having a good idea. and don't have to post questions they have an issue.. Others because of time and family the vehicle is parked so no need to come here to ask questions.
Many of the swaps are now outdated.. the 3800s/c swap the donors are now long in the tooth. high mileage vehicles.. not many low mile cream puffs out there for short cash.. The Fiero was the poor mans vette.. Sorry many don't care that it is mid engine.. only that it's got 2 seats.. Fact is the c4 with a ls swap cost less than a cleanish fiero and a 3800s/c swap. and will run circles around it.. I am looking for one just because of this. why spend 3-6k on an engine swap and then 2k on brakes, and then still have a 2k vette with a 2500. ls take out make you look like you are standing still.. Not everyone is hooked on just one platform/car.. I like my fiero for what it is.. but the choices for a better platform have become cheaper.. even in the compact cars.. The Subaru, The fact that a few of the parts that make the gt.. the cool looking car it is.. no one has stepped up to the plate to repop. and when someone does try, those "other vendors" pounce.. yet they won't even bother to try.. and they have better connections to suppliers.. A 3rd generation weatherstrip company that is huge in the hobby got run off from here when they came looking for input on products to repop for these.. won't make parts because they came here and got run off.. By a member selling one part and a long term vendor that put his own ego before the good of the whole..
These cars need newer swaps.. but no one is going to offer parts for them. as they have seen how others have been treated. and I can't blame them.. Nevermind the owners of these cars are cheap.. They are all in until the part is avail then it's crickets.. It's a small niche vehicle.. just be glad their are come parts made.. the numbers are to small now for many "big" vendors to put the time and r&d into parts.. and when they do, it's for niche vehicles that the owners will spend the money.. Take that weatherstrip company/vendor they tooled up for a big linc. that there was under 3000 made.. but the owners of the few hundred left and used in the hobby, will spend the money.. Fiero owners.. would not buy a weatherstrip kit that covered the whole car for 500-600 bucks.. The vendors know this so they don't bother..
[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 04-03-2017).]
I like the Fiero and I love this forum, I've only had mine for a few years but I think I'll keep it for a very long time. Facebook has a myriad of issues ranging from its ease of use to how it affects people. I liked that I found some active Fiero groups, but I still find it easier to look up info on this site. The ability to ask a question on facebook and get an answer fast has been really helpful but its not perfect.
The demise of forums is across all the internet. I have an El Camino and I was very active on maliburacing for years and malibu thunder...now only Maliburacing is still a thing. I don't even post there anymore because I'm doing a restomod on the car with an LS swap and LS!tech is more useful for me. LS1 tech is even a ghost town now, even though a lot of its topics/covered vehicles are still being produced. The S10forum is practically on life support and I doubt it'll be around much longer. It is a huge wealth of info on a truck that spanned 20 years.
As for the cheapness of the Fiero community, I think that is kind of true at times. I also think the low entry cost of a Fiero really makes the owners frugal. I mean I have trouble thinking I spent 5K on fully rebuilding my Fiero with a 3800sc but its amazing to drive now, and its so much better than the $250 wreck I started with. Also when you figure the donor car I used was nearly 20 years old, its not really a late model swap anymore. Sure its a much better engine but even this weekend a guy laughed at me and said what was the big deal its still from another Pontiac and its not that much newer.
Luckily I have had a really good experience with the car, and I've got a lot of possitive feedback about it when I've taken it to Cars and Coffee or other cruise ins, but a lot of people just assume its a shiny old piece of junk because its a Fiero. Its a really hard reputation to overcome. Here in the NW a lot of people aren't into American cars anyways, its telling when I park next to an MR2 at a cruise in and it'll be original and barely running and people are all over it but they couldn't care less about the Fiero. It just makes my car more of a sleeper
I figured I'd throw my two cents in and at least that would be another post on the board today! Jessica
Originally posted by 78_elky:Luckily I have had a really good experience with the car, and I've got a lot of possitive feedback about it when I've taken it to Cars and Coffee or other cruise ins, but a lot of people just assume its a shiny old piece of junk because its a Fiero. Its a really hard reputation to overcome. Here in the NW a lot of people aren't into American cars anyways, its telling when I park next to an MR2 at a cruise in and it'll be original and barely running and people are all over it but they couldn't care less about the Fiero. It just makes my car more of a sleeper Jessica
Head up to Seattle for some shows! Jet City put 15 cars in the GTOAA Nationals last year and we were very warmly received. We routinely win the participation trophy at the All Pontiac show in Bothell, and I've personally gotten a lot of good feedback on my car, which is about 85% restored (by my estimation) at mixed-marque shows.
Fieros do have a bad reputation. A lot were made, they had quality and design issues, and for a long time there were at lot of poorly maintained instances on the roads. But the latter isn't the case now. The shitbuckets have largely become parts cars or gone to wrecking yards and we're seeing more and more very nicely maintained stock and modified examples in our club and in the area. The more we get them to events, particularly mixed-marque, the better; it helps dispel the bad rep.
That said, when wifey takes her Mark 1 Sprite to a show with me and it and the Fiero are parked side by side, there is a clear crowd preference
The S10forum is practically on life support and I doubt it'll be around much longer. It is a huge wealth of info on a truck that spanned 20 years.
Brings back memories. I used to be on an S-10 forum that was fantastic; extremely busy and full of archived tech articles. I even won some sort of random drawing that won me a forum logo sticker which showed up in the mail one day. It was fun.
I am on a couple of forums and they are going strong. I think people are just moving away from the Fiero and there is not much there to entice new comers, especially when the majority of the kids today won't even give it a second look when they are all gung ho about the WSX, etc.
I dont think so. Are those other groups about an 80s car that was only made for 5 years? We are a small pool to begin with. But if any of you are thinking younger kids aren't paying Fiero enough attention, being more involved on facebook is a way to get it more attention by them.
Not 80's cars, but dedicated 80's arcade games (that were only made for a few months).
But if any of you are thinking younger kids aren't paying Fiero enough attention, being more involved on facebook is a way to get it more attention by them.
+1
"Social media is dumb, I don't/won't do it" followed by, "Why aren't there more young people on Pennocks? Where are they?? They must not like Fieros.", while the Fiero group on Facebook gets 100+ posts/day is a bit of a facepalm for me.
Originally posted by fieroguru: I have probably posted over 1000 pictures to PFF... I can then copy/paste the entire post from PFF to several other forums, which significantly reduces overall post time on 2-3 forums.
It seems too much like repeating yourself. I understand you copied the same original content to different places, but by their very difference, you would hopefully have different people, with a different focus. The threads on each forum would be divergent from that point on. I don't know how you could keep what you had posted where straight. So, you'd have to repeat yourself some more. I'd just post a link. Here it is. One place.
I think people's disposable income is also a factor. I notice that even LS1 tech has less volume now than it did a few years ago. Especially in the LS4 section.
.
That I'm sure is part of it.. Another part is the forum members and every forum has them. that reply to a thread.. "use the search" Now.. That is off putting to that person and any lurkers.. This over the long haul.. makes people not want to post.. I use the search. but many times get 4-8 pages of "hits" not everyone has the free time to fish through all that.. So they'll post a thread.. and get the d/bag reply.. use the search..
LS tech also suffers from the fact that junkyards are not stupid.. at first you could get a low mile ls for short money.. I mean short money.. Now that they know it is the "in" thing forget about it.. So the ls swap doesn't have that same "shine" . Yes they still are a great bang for the buck, but nothing like before.. A used 5.3 with what they call low miles 90k-120k is not the 300 bucks it used to be.. The 5.7/6.0/6.2 all alum take outs that used to be 2500.00 with trans harness and ecu.. are now 4500+ a 6.2 with a stick.. even more..
At that point it is cheaper to go buy a ls equipped vette or Camaro, g8,gto, etc.. Many also find that 420hp is more than enough and don't need to upgrade things.. The car hobby is contracting, and has been for a decade+ . I'm sure when the muscle cars were new and farely new used cars, that you could buy your muscle from the showroom floor that made more than building a "rod" had the same type contraction in the build end of the hobby. once this 2nd coming of the hp wars fire gets put out buy regulations.. I think you'll see much more of the build/mod end come back to life.. and the 2nd coming of the hp wars are very close to be put out to pasture sooner than most think.. and why you see trucks with turbo6, a super car with a turbo 6, pony cars with turbo 4's.. smaller v8's comeing in the top dog vehicles.. the huge cid in your face party is over.. Sure there are younger guys/gals that like fast cars. but many can't afford it.. Way to many signed up for some silly college major and now can't fin a job worth a _____. and have a monster bill chasing them.. As to many trust others that claim there is a huge need for people in this field,, they get out of school and what no jobs'.. those bastards.. Many also claim the younger kids don't like cars they see them as evil.. not so.. you know what they see.. a 6 month insurance coverage that cost 2500.00 . Between that the car cost, upkeep and fuel.. they can't swing it..
[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 04-05-2017).]
IThe ability to ask a question on facebook and get an answer fast has been really helpful but its not perfect.
Jessica
It is some of that.. but facebook.. shines here.. You are bored, one night, or afternoon, you go on facebook and see in your feed that ______ group is having a meet at the walmart one or two towns over.. You can find car meets/cruises for every day of the season if you want local to you.. This makes it SHINE.. Many forums are model or brand based.. so you only get info on cruises for that car or that brand.. And not much else.. I'm sure it's cool to go to a car cruise/show that it's all one model car.. but finding a ton of these local to you is not going to happen and would get boring real fast if there was a ton of them. Members don't tend to post events local to them that might be a general car cruise.. not based on THAT model.. Heck this forum people don't post events other than fiero based I've seen one show that was at the fiero store and maybe one other that was somewhat local to me (under 500 miles) but there are tons and tons of shows within 100 miles of everyone that know one here knows about.. as they only post info on fiero based shows.. other than the powertour.. and the Pontiac national show. ,wilwood dream cruise and a "few" other large ones.. Facebook.. the local car groups on there post any and every meet/cruise/show they hear about.. If you plan on enjoying cruising your ride and hanging with other car guys/gals.. you just can't beet it.. And the only reason I'm thinking of going back to having a facebook account.. As it is the news source for car season events..
It is aweome that here you get info on fiero based shows/cruise/etc but many are very far away.. many in any model vehicle in the hobby don't have the time off to go to the non local shows/cruises.. as it might take 2 days to get there and 2 back.. but the show is on Saturday or sunday or both.. So to go, you need to blow off work 2 days before your vaca starts just to get there.. not an option for everyone..
[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 04-05-2017).]
Originally posted by tshark: It seems too much like repeating yourself. I understand you copied the same original content to different places, but by their very difference, you would hopefully have different people, with a different focus. The threads on each forum would be divergent from that point on. I don't know how you could keep what you had posted where straight. So, you'd have to repeat yourself some more. I'd just post a link. Here it is. One place.
The "easy" thing would be to host a blog on my website and stop posting anything anywhere else... but no one really wants that.
Yep. Easy posting of pics will do that. This forum is very old and hasn't changed much. Not build for phone social media. Young people do not sit in front of computers anymore. I have teens so I know. Modernize guys. BTW, I do not use Fiero FB page. May need to create account just for that. My FB is only for blood relatives.
Yep. Easy posting of pics will do that. This forum is very old and hasn't changed much at. Not build for phone social media. Young people do not sit in front of computers anymore. I have teens so I know. Modernize guys. BTW, I do not use Fiero FB page. May need to create account just for that. My FB is only for blood relatives.
Well said. I still surf Pennock's frequently, but over the past several years the energy level in this forum has slowly diminished, so much so that I rarely bother posting anymore. I am already swaying the Facebook direction, as sad as it is to say. I love this forum... its contributing members, the moderator, the vast database of knowledge and experience... but I can't even use PIP anymore. So frustrating. Sharing pictures easily can unfortunately make or break a forum experience, especially if you have a build thread.
[This message has been edited by ITALGT (edited 04-05-2017).]
Yep. Easy posting of pics will do that. This forum is very old and hasn't changed much. Not build for phone social media. Young people do not sit in front of computers anymore. I have teens so I know. Modernize guys. BTW, I do not use Fiero FB page. May need to create account just for that. My FB is only for blood relatives.
I'm "old" and I don't sit in front of computers anymore either, nor do I really like to other than screen size. I work from my phone most times. Which is of course not really a phone
Another part is the forum members and every forum has them. that reply to a thread.. "use the search" Now.. That is off putting to that person and any lurkers.. This over the long haul.. makes people not want to post..
LOL You have just described cobaltss.net perfectly! They have a bunch of guys who all race each other to post "Do a search!!" every time a new person asks a question. The problem is, if you DO do a search, often times all you come up with is a bunch of similar threads where someone asks a question and then it ends two posts later with someone screaming "Do a search!!" So no help there.
Of course now its a different story since its so dead there.
On the Fiero Facebook page today, there is a thread about PFF and why people have stop using it. I agree about the "hate" thread in PFF but it still kind of made me mad. PFF still is the best way to buy and sell items. Also it is the best place for information. I like to read about people's builds and what interest they have
On the Fiero Facebook page today, there is a thread about PFF and why people have stop using it. I agree about the "hate" thread in PFF but it still kind of made me mad. PFF still is the best way to buy and sell items. Also it is the best place for information. I like to read about people's builds and what interest they have
There isn't any hate.. Just because one group chooses to use that as their argument. doesn't make it true.. Seems many when faced with a person or persons that might not agree with them. they default to hate/racist/ (fill in the blank). Again, this doesn't make it true.. only that they didn't like what they heard, fact or not. so they use those themes to get the same thing as covering ears and going lalalalalalalalalala..
On the Fiero Facebook page today, there is a thread about PFF and why people have stop using it. I agree about the "hate" thread in PFF but it still kind of made me mad. PFF still is the best way to buy and sell items. Also it is the best place for information. I like to read about people's builds and what interest they have
Yes Aparently someone didnt get their way and decided to go on face book and call some of us Nazis At least here on the forum I can choose what threads to read or not read Quite honestly with facebook popping it up every time someone replied I just got a little sick of it and drop both groups Last thing I need is some idiot polluting my news feed on facebook with Nazis and hate You don't get your way you don't have to go and ****ing start spewing hatred on other forums Some people have a lot of growing up to do. There are a lot of online resources I certainly do not need facebook to keep any of my vehicles on the road Hopefully it never happens but if PFF is shut down I will still go on but I'm cutting back my Facebook to what it was supposed to be in the first place family and close friends only
