I absolutely LOVE this forum, and still check it almost daily for new posts. There is NO WAY Facebook could replace the resources, and the ability for follow entire builds. Try finding something on Facebook a few months after it was posted. You have to remember in what group, and even then, finding it takes a lot of digging.
That being said, it is still taking SO much traffic from the forum. I just realized exactly how much today. We just had the Daytona show here in Florida over this weekend. If you look, the thread about the show is now buried on page two, and has not had a single post in it for over 2 weeks. There is not one single post or photo from the show!
Facebook on the other hand has been used to share hundreds of photos many of us took throughout the weekend, and share them into numerous groups.
I personally think that the ability to take a photo, and instantly share those photos and comments with everyone instantly, right from the phone, is pretty much the reason.
To post photos to Facebook from your phone: Click on the Facebook icon to launch the app. In the "Whats on your mind" dialog box, Either click the camera icon, or Picture icon to browse for photos that you previously took. Select one photo or as many as you like, and then click POST.
To post an image here on the forum: You need a computer, and only a windows computer at that. Make sure you follow the link at the bottom of the pages on the forum and download PIP. Then make sure you put the information into PIP and save it so it is able to communicate with this forum. Next, you need to transfer your photos from your phone or camera to the computer. Just plug in your USB cable to the computer and the phone. Browse through the folders and find the pictures that you would like to share, and copy them to a folder on your PC. Now those images are most certainly way to large to post, so you need to find some sort of software to reduce the size of the images to no wider than 1024 pixels, and make sure that they are no larger than 300k. Once that is done, load up PIP, and HOPE that it will work for you. There are literally hundreds of posts on here about trying to get it to work. Now in PIP, simply click browse and find where the photos are that you reduced in size, select one and upload it. Next you will need to fire up your browser , login to the forum, choose a subforum, and make a new post. Now you can paste that link for the photo that you just uploaded. You will need to go back and forth between the software you are using to reduce the images, uploading each one at a time with PIP, and pasting the links in the post. Once you are done with all the photos, you can SUBMIT and you are done.
Does anyone know how to code apps for Android / the iPhone? An app, that can replace PIP for mobile devices is what is needed. The ability to use an app, select the photos, and the app then automatically resizes and sends them to the forum. People what to share photos and information during a show or event. Not days later when they get home.
I bet some of the Facebook issue could be mitigated if this forum had a good mobile app, vice having to go to the internet browser. Or is there one I don't know about?
I keep hearing about the mysterious Facebook page that everyone uses now days, but I've never actually seen it. I see how posting pictures is a breeze, but I can't fathom how things like technical discussion or build threads can be replaced by a Facebook feed.
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Does anyone know how to code apps for Android / the iPhone?
Yes, unfortunately having the time to do so is another story. Also I would need to know all the behind the scenes workings, to get everything up and running.
Facebook has taken the steam out of a lot of old-style web forums, not just this one.
What FB is good at: Sharing a short bit of text and some pics and getting fast reactions. Things forums do poorly (especially pictures on this one). What FB is bad at: Finding anything that was posted in the past. Lots of text and conversations that stretch out of days, weeks, months, even years. A build thread that is updated once a month here is simple (save for posting pics). That build thread on FB is near-impossible.
Info on Facebook is transient and disorganized, which is why it's easy to post. Info here is long-lasting and easy to find. That's a part of why it's harder to post here. But yeah, the photo thing is a major issue.
The mountaineering forum I follow used to get hundreds of posts/day, sometimes even thousands. Now it gets a dozen on a busy day.
I keep hearing about the mysterious Facebook page that everyone uses now days, but I've never actually seen it. I see how posting pictures is a breeze, but I can't fathom how things like technical discussion or build threads can be replaced by a Facebook feed.
Yes, unfortunately having the time to do so is another story. Also I would need to know all the behind the scenes workings, to get everything up and running.
Facebook is rubbish... I agree that detailed technical posts cannot be made. There is no proper formatting of posts in Facebook.
Facebook is easy to post, but it's crap. You put low effort into posting on Facebook, but the payback is nil; information is disorganized and cannot be found.
You take more effort to post here, well the results are longer-lasting and more valuable.
In many domains of life, effort and results are correlated.
Forums that are tapatalk enabled are easy to post pics, though they are hosted elsewhere. Not sure what software this board is, but I'm sure it's too old to enable tapatalk.
This is really sad at the moment, but down the road, those of us that still truly appreciate what they have, and enjoy them as we all do, will have the last laugh on everyone. Not from a dollar view, but from a pleasure and enjoyment view.
I think the muscle car thing is far over rated, and as someone that had many true muscle cars back when they were just new and used cars, I always comes back to the Fiero as an old and trusted friend. Those that did not get a chance to own a '71 Challenger, '65 Mustang 2+2, '69 AMX, etc. etc. are now reliving their lost experiences...... and at what cost might I ask?
I will take a very nice Fiero for 1/100th the cost of a late 60's, early 70's Cuda, Mustang, Camaro, .......(fill in the car here) as long as they are available. There are just so many that are left, and the market is quickly diminishing to only a handful of "salvageable" Fieros.
I spend a lot of time just looking at Fiero's for sale (ok, it is still cold enough that I need a daily diversion until I can hit the garage) and the supply is dwindling daily.
As far as facebook, I agree. It is in no way comparable to this forum, or any other forum I have belonged to with respect to the expertise and knowledge, and the willingness of people to share and answer questions. Very hard to follow anything on Facebook to be honest.
The sad truth is probably just a declining interest in Fieros.
Maybe to some extent, but it seems every good forum I used to enjoy five or more years ago is now dead or nearly so. Every time the subject of Why? comes up, the answer is always the same - all the traffic moved to Facebook. Its not just car forums - its forums about sports, photography, model trains, etc. All kinds of subjects. And unfortunately none of the Facebook groups have any kind of search or archiving features that comes anywhere near close to what the forums had.
In another thread recently, I made a crack about posting on the forty various and often-competing Facebook groups that have replaced most of the forum traffic. An exaggeration, perhaps? Maybe... But the point remains.
Facebook is rubbish... I agree that detailed technical posts cannot be made. There is no proper formatting of posts in Facebook.
Facebook is easy to post, but it's crap. You put low effort into posting on Facebook, but the payback is nil; information is disorganized and cannot be found.
You take more effort to post here, well the results are longer-lasting and more valuable.
In many domains of life, effort and results are correlated.
Agree 100%.
The hockey team I'm on has a FB page that's a closed group. We use it to organize team functions. It works fine for that, but it's for stuff that only matters for a few days at most.
I visited the Fiero FB page once, and only because I was notified that someone had posted about me. I looked around and realized how worthless it was compared to here. Never went back.
I got tired of the constant BS in O/T... but I finally smartened up (it only took umpteen years) and stopped posting in there. Just not worth the aggravation. But the tech forums here at PFF are second to none. I can't imagine being a newb with a Fiero and not having this resource. Actually that's not true... I know exactly what it would be like. I got my first Fiero a couple years before this forum existed. I was so happy to discover PFF shortly after Cliff created it. Made fixing the Fiero(s) a whole lot easier!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-27-2017).]
Say what you want about FB, but the only folks posting here will soon be just a handful of anti-facebook dinosaurs. Yes it's hard to find things later on FB but for real time day to day interesting conversation it can't be beat. Posting pics on PFF is about as fun as going to the dentist as the OP pointed out. On FB it's so easy even a caveman could do it.
This forum, (like most forums) is dying. I keep coming here every day hoping to see new posts but fewer and fewer reasons every time.
Yeah posting pictures here has become a real pain. I gave up trying a long time ago. It used to be fairly easy. I too love this forum, but i think a lot of the creative guys who kept us motivated and excited have left for various disagreements or reasons. Don't get me wrong there are still several mind blowing projects going on (example Carlo and Bozzie) but the sheer number of ones we used to see has died down imo. I sm sure there are other factors too, but i would not bury this very valuable forum just yet. A few tweeks and i think this place could be humming again.
One other thing about posting pics here, I do it post event threads, etc. I would say make sure to offer some sort of response. if you are interested in something saying so goes a long way. It generates more interest. When it seems like it doesn't have an impact it takes more effort to continue to do it, while wondering its effectiveness. What can be done to keep a forum thriving is participation. People who don't participate shouldn't be surprised if they come in and don't see things. That concept goes farther, if you are into Fieros join a nearby club, or a reagional club, support the car and the hobby. Go to events. Just some thoughts.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 03-28-2017).]
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Thank goodness for Facebook's ease of use...
Anyway, having owned my first Fiero for about six months, I'm VERY thankful to have this resource. Because of PFF, I found a local-ish Fiero club, which has a forum and a great group of enthusiasts, and also discovered an active Facebook group.
I've learned a ton from the resources and archives here at PFF. I would NOT want to have tried to work on my Fiero without PFF, as the build threads and technical aspects are great, but I like the photos, sale items, and discussions on Facebook, too.
Anyway, having owned my first Fiero for about six months, I'm VERY thankful to have this resource. Because of PFF, I found a local-ish Fiero club, which has a forum and a great group of enthusiasts, and also discovered an active Facebook group.
I've learned a ton from the resources and archives here at PFF. I would NOT want to have tried to work on my Fiero without PFF, as the build threads and technical aspects are great, but I like the photos, sale items, and discussions on Facebook, too.
This forum isn't dying because of Facebook, it's dying because the Fiero just isn't a popular car anymore and this forum is old and clunky. If anything, the Facebook group is helping keep a few people in Fieros who would have otherwise given up. This forum has been a great resource but it's antiquated and while Cliff did us a great service creating it, it isn't a business for him and he hasn't kept it up to date. I'm sure he doesn't have the time or interest to revamp the whole site, especially at his age.
PFF is the reason my Fiero is on the road today. NOTHING can take the place of a good forum, and despite any issues, PFF is the best - for info, purchasing/selling parts, tech help, you name it.
While I'll agree that whileposting photos is a pain....PFF is still, by far, the best Fiero related website/forum/asylum there is.
------------------ Tim Bay City, MI '87 GT original 2.8 V6 All Poly suspension, Eibach springs Aussie Stage 2 side scoops Deck scoop, Fiero Warehouse lip spoiler
Originally posted by 2.5: if you are interested in something saying so goes a long way. It generates more interest. When it seems like it doesn't have an impact it takes more effort to continue to do it, while wondering its effectiveness. What can be done to keep a forum thriving is participation. People who don't participate shouldn't be surprised if they come in and don't see things.
This.
I don't do facebook. There are lots of Fiero events I cannot attend. I see them mentioned on here, in one form or another. Unfortunately, after the event, nothing. Actually, had John not mentioned it, I would be unaware that Daytona had already happened. I had a vague idea that it was in the Spring. I realize that people go through a lot of effort to put on these events, but if the people who attend don't share from the event, how will new members be attracted? There just isn't much excitement shown on here, especially as pertains to events.
As for some of the other activity, yes, we've been through it before, but here it is, again. Suppose you have a bunch of enthusiasm. You bought your Fiero, and have great plans for it. You post on here to share some enthusiasm. Maybe you make some newbie mistakes. Other members respond, but often the responses trend more in the hostile territory than the welcoming and supportive territory.
Yes, the wealth of information is great, but not readily available. Too often, a member looking for help has done their due diligence with search, but the responses are all to use the search. Sometimes, articles that used to be on PFF have been deleted, or no longer come up on the search. Sometimes, you must know exactly what to search for.
I have posted on here for help, myself. I don't mean to put down those who have been helpful on here in the past, but the responses I received largely weren't helpful. I realize that everyone here is volunteering their time, but I finally decided it was a waste of time trying to get help on here.
There are interesting projects to read about, but most don't seem to really be active. By and large, the projects are completed, and often those people have moved on...
I've personally experienced the results of trying to post a build thread. There were no replies, but the responses seemed to fall into 2 camps: already been done, and who cares. I abandoned the thread. If no one cared, what was the point?
Yes, TO/OT is active, but I mainly just look on here for things for sale, or general info.
As problematic as posting pictures here is, and as archaic as the site is, I don't see that facebook is the problem. I think it's attitude, more than anything else. The people putting on events are probably getting tired. I imagine it's often a thankless job. Then there's infighting and bickering. Recently, I've found PFF both depressing and hostile. The content recently tends to be an enthusiasm killer. Facebook, by its very nature, is a ”happening place”; it facillitates constant new content. PFF, by contrast, is more like reading a history book, with the infighting, bickering, belittling, and insults making frequent appearances.
I don't know the answer, but I do know that, even in my brief tenure, a lot of good members have left PFF. They didn't leave because of facebook, or the site, or the picture posting issues; they left because of the attitude. In their wake, the void has been somewhat filled by the type of members who drove these members off, which causes the cycle to repeat. I suspect this has caused a shift of posts from Fieros to TO/OT.
When arguments break out, members take sides. Often, members on the losing side leave. Either way, this behavior does not attract new members. Where can they go? A closed facebook group?
Nothing wrong with is forum, just some of the users! posting pics is simple just read the instructions. Yes this isn't cliffs full time job, that said the forum is very useful and easy to navigate. as for facebook?? Really??? if your over 40 using facebook then you have a problem. I would tend to say facebook is old and antiquated, my kids are teenagers and they don't use it because other social media like snap chat and Instagram have taken over. if you want to buy and sell fiero stuff this is the best place to do it by far.
Nothing wrong with is forum, just some of the users! posting pics is simple just read the instructions.
"Simple" is relative. If you have to read instructions, it's not simple compared to FB, Twitter, Instagram, etc. I participate in other car forums. Posting pics there does not require reading instructions: It's drag and drop. Done.
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Originally posted by jjd2296: Yes this isn't cliffs full time job, that said the forum is very useful and easy to navigate. as for facebook?? Really??? if your over 40 using facebook then you have a problem.
What problem is it that I have? Social media is very, very good at what it does: Connecting people and allowing them to easily share experiences. It's friend-based, not interest-based, so I can post there and my friends see. If I post here just a handful, all Fiero people, might.
Yes, the forum is useful, for technical issues, buying and sell, etc. But for socializing? It doesn't hold a candle.
You can say that people are dumb for doing what they are doing with social media, but that hardly encourages them to come back here and post about events.
I agree: For technical info, this is a great resource, both the existing posts/threads and asking new questions. Buying or selling? The same. But that's not all the site has been, historically; there's been a social/event aspect as well, and that's rapidly drying up. And if you don't think Mark Z & Co. is looking at what's left of these forums and scheming about how to move those ad impressions to Facebook, well, I'd bet my Fiero that has not escaped them at all.
It's technology: You either move forward or get left behind. Being the last old dude shaking his cane from a horse-drawn wagon as the Model As whiz by doesn't make them go away.
[This message has been edited by lorennerol (edited 03-28-2017).]
Nothing wrong with is forum, just some of the users! posting pics is simple just read the instructions.
Really???? Did you read the first post?
To post an image here on the forum: You need a computer, and only a windows computer at that. Make sure you follow the link at the bottom of the pages on the forum and download PIP. Then make sure you put the information into PIP and save it so it is able to communicate with this forum. Next, you need to transfer your photos from your phone or camera to the computer. Just plug in your USB cable to the computer and the phone. Browse through the folders and find the pictures that you would like to share, and copy them to a folder on your PC. Now those images are most certainly way to large to post, so you need to find some sort of software to reduce the size of the images to no wider than 1024 pixels, and make sure that they are no larger than 300k. Once that is done, load up PIP, and HOPE that it will work for you. There are literally hundreds of posts on here about trying to get it to work. Now in PIP, simply click browse and find where the photos are that you reduced in size, select one and upload it. Next you will need to fire up your browser , login to the forum, choose a sub-forum, and make a new post. Now you can paste that link for the photo that you just uploaded. You will need to go back and forth between the software you are using to reduce the images, uploading each one at a time with PIP, and pasting the links in the post. Once you are done with all the photos, you can SUBMIT and you are done.
And if it is that easy to use PIP, Explain this please.
I installed PIP and tried posting pictures on 3 different computers: - My main desktop, a Windows 10 quad core 4.2 Ghz i7 (Overclocked), 32 Gigs of Ram, Dual XFX Double D HD 7850 Graphics Cards. - Asus Laptop running WIndows 7 - Living Room Kodi Media PC running Windows 8.1
I temporarily disabled any and all local firewalls, same result. When I switched from DSL to Cable, I tried it all over again, and still no luck. Therefore I can rule out the ISP and the operating system. What is left?
Just an FYI, I am a computer tech. I have been building computers for 25+ years, websites, programming in VBScript, .Net, and worked as the head tech at an ISP for a few years. I am not computer illiterate to say the least.
As for this statement:
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Originally posted by jjd2296: if your over 40 using facebook then you have a problem
I think, sorry to say, this explains just explains how closed minded you probably are. To push your judgement on probably 80% of the people that are on this forum. I am almost 50 now, and use Facebook frequently to keep in touch with Friends and Family, as well as follow numerous group related to the hobbies that I am interested in. From Fieros, Technology, Photography and cooking. Sure I also use Numerous forums, Instagram and Snapchat. Never got into twitter to be honest......
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-28-2017).]
if your over 40 using facebook then you have a problem.
I'm over 60 and using FB. I must be totally messed up.
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Originally posted by Patrick:
The hockey team I'm on has a FB page that's a closed group. We use it to organize team functions. It works fine for that, but it's for stuff that only matters for a few days at most.
I may be old, but I've got no problem posting images with PIP.
I've been here a long time, and there have always been some people leaving for various reasons. Plenty have left just because they got rid of their car, got tired of dealing with the car, health reasons, or died.
But over the past several years, I have watched a lot of people leave the forum because they got tired of the huge increase in hatred that has filled the pages of PFF, from the vocal minority. Most of the hate is contained in TOT, but it often spills over into other sections of the forum. PFF used to be A LOT more diverse in membership. The African American, LGBTQ, and female population of the forum has gone WAY down over the past several years.
It would be great if we could bring back the diversity and knowledge that's been lost on this forum due to the hate, and get some new blood into the fold to keep the Fiero love going, but it's a bit Sisyphean right now.
Ghost town forum is a mixture of many things (already mentioned).
Most definitely due to the Fiero getting further away from its last day of production.
The difficulty in posting text from a tellingbone and no possibility of posting photos from tellingbone (in my case). I normally (other than now) only have tellingbone access and on many many occasions have deleted attempts to post as it was just too time consuming and difficult to edit/correct/see what was being typed.
Faceache and the ease of posting (I dont do Faceache).
And prolly a whole lot of other factors mentioned and not.
I am part of a motorboike forum which has many similarities to PFF (other than the number of wheels). Someone created a Faceache page using our name and although traffic did go down for a while, they just couldnt hold/display the technical knowledge that the forum has. The forum is for a boike no longer in production, not very well known. The forum has been around for a few years longer than PFF. The forum is run on IPB and from a tellingbone goes direct to a mobile version....really fast even on my old phone and zero adverts. Really easy to post piccies, which I am guessing are mostly taken from our phones. I can even admin the site from my phone!
The motorboike forum is not at all expensive to run and I would guess now has more traffic than PFF. It was revamped in 2006 and has run from donations that some members voluntarily donated at this time (£5 each). New members can also donate but every year we have to try and stop the long term members from re-donating as we easily have enough to run things. It does not need to be expensive to have the piccies and tellingbone features working on a platform such as IPB and it most definitely is what the majority of forum users are looking for .....tellingbone access and ease of posting pics. I guess it is different if you need/want to make a profit from a forum.
A lovely thing that happened when our boike forum started to shrink was that it regained some of that personal feel that it had in the beginning. Not as much content but a friendly and helpful atmosphere, which it has always been known for in other related forums.
Enjoy PFF shrinking, make the most of it. If Cliff is not relying on it as a source of income, but just as a hobby, then mayhaps it has made his life easier?!? There is always the technical info here that in my experience cannot be well replicated on Faceache as the Faceachers end up back on the forum for that.
We all choose for ourselves what we post. Choose to reply , choose not to, choose how.
Rodger that. Recently Sardonyx247 and myself have been going at it. I posted a long response in a topic I started and sardonyx247 got a lot of negatives. He quit posting for a few days. He comes back a few days later and the first thing he does is dig up a topic from over 2 years ago:
Looks like he really had to do a lot of searching to find a topic where someone had a problem with one of my products. He posts a few things to make that topic current again. I have no doubt he did this to again stick yet another thorn in my side. So did I reply with anger calling him a slimy POS? Did I start complaining that Dave always starts these fights between us? No. I took the high road and added a bit to that subject showing that if indeed my product was poorly designed many would be complaining about it as I have sold over 700ish of these now. One of most popular items. So yes: In my opinion yes, Dave knew exactly what he was posting and why he was posting in that topic.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Good to hear. 
