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Finally the monster motor is done! by Raymac85
Started on: 07-28-2016 11:39 AM
Replies: 51 (1923 views)
Last post by: Will on 08-17-2016 12:16 PM
Will
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Report this Post08-11-2016 09:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

I'm just curious how you felt about the following 4.9 build. Would it have been less than 250 RWHP, or is that impossible to speculate on? The build was looking promising... up until the car got cracked up.

Supercharging the Cadillac 4.9 with Allante intake and Gen V M90 supercharger by MaxCubes


I meant 250 WHP naturally aspirated. Forced induction engines are different.

//www.fiero.nl/forum/F...L/127611-5.html#p166
MaxCubes says he was running 6-8 psi depending on RPM. The boost is higher at 6000 because the engine's VE was falling off, but the blower's was not.

With ideal intercooling, 7 psi would make about 50% more HP than stock. Nothing's ever ideal, but I think if he pulley'd that engine for 10 psi max, he would have been over 250 WHP.

Of course forced induction gives the 4.9 the one thing it doesn't need, which is WAY MORE TORQUE.

It really needs better breathing up top.
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Report this Post08-11-2016 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Will

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quote
Originally posted by JLSG64:

I read that 4.9 build a while back. I applaud his effort but I think the blower is too small. Not really my thing trying to figure out fuel injection systems. I really could not even guess on the horsepower. I have a different idea for supercharging a 4.9.


You don't know the power of the Dark Side.

EFI is *WAY* better for forced induction than carbs are.

The M90 has certainly been shown to produce over 350 WHP, but it's not very efficient at that boost level (or any boost level, really). An AutoRotor or Whipple would be more efficient and capable of higher boost.

PBJ's turbo 4.9 was closing in on 300 WHP... but it had a heck of a torque curve. The car was all launch though. It ran a 12.2 at... 108(?) mph. Certainly had a crazy holeshot and great in the first half of the strip, but didn't have much on the back half.

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Report this Post08-11-2016 09:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by JLSG64:

Will,
I really like the Northstar engines and it sounds like you know what you are doing. I have a 2003 Northstar I want to use in a kit car. I made an intake manifold for it using 4 IDF Webers. I just love carbs! Okay I'm old school. And I haven't ran the motor yet so who knows. The only thing I don't like about Northstar engine is they are BIG. Actually, lets go with they are wide. Seems like a tight squeeze in a Fiero, but definitely a bad ass motor to use in your Fiero!


I've spent enough money that I ought to know a thing or two

The Northstar is short front to back thanks to the waterpump design... that's what lets it fit in the Fiero. Take a look at the heads, particularly the valve and plug well angles to see some other packaging shenanigans GM used to keep the engine narrow.

If you came straight up off the intake flanges, then you have a break in the port walls and step change in cross sectional area. This will hurt intake tract flow and compromise power. Note that the intake ports come through the intake flanges at a significant angle.

Unless you do something crazy, like try to drive a distributor from somewhere on the engine, you'll need a stand alone computerized ignition anyway. However, the '00-'04 engines are bastard step children in terms of engine management. They use a unique trigger wheel and basically no aftermarket computers can operate them. Check out www.chrfab.com for options, as I think they might have set something up that can operate that engine.
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Report this Post08-16-2016 09:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JLSG64Send a Private Message to JLSG64Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I guess I'm crazy then. I thought I was being resourceful and thinking outside the box.
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Will
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Report this Post08-16-2016 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Build your engine as crazy as you want.

What's outside the box about old tech?

I'm exclusively an EFI devotee. I completely agree with all the reasons that OEM's left distributors and carburetors behind.

Unless those intake adapters have very thick walls and have been extensively hand shaped inside, it looks like you have sharp corners in your intake tract... not good for fuel suspension or mixture homogeneity.

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Report this Post08-16-2016 10:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JLSG64Send a Private Message to JLSG64Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Will,
You sure have an opinion on everything, huh? I guess only you know how to build engines and nobody else has a clue because you are so smart. I have been building small-block Chevys for twenty years and I think I know how to port and intake manifold. So do you do your own work, do your own r&d, make your own parts from scratch or are you just a hater of other peoples builds? I guess you are the best engine builder on this entire forum. Congratulations!
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Report this Post08-17-2016 03:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SlammedClick Here to Email SlammedSend a Private Message to SlammedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Will is a smart guy and has built some incredible stuff, much better than the crap you've shown.

I'm surprised no one called you out at your horrible uneven porting job. Why are you polishing your intake ports? No bowl pics so I'm sure the throat is still tiny, and you didn't unshroud the valves or polish the chambers. What's the point of putting in bigger valves if you aren't going to do it right?

Your manifold flanges are too thin and are MIGing everything because you can't TIG.

[This message has been edited by Slammed (edited 08-17-2016).]

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Report this Post08-17-2016 09:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JLSG64:

Will,
You sure have an opinion on everything, huh? I guess only you know how to build engines and nobody else has a clue because you are so smart. I have been building small-block Chevys for twenty years and I think I know how to port and intake manifold. So do you do your own work, do your own r&d, make your own parts from scratch or are you just a hater of other peoples builds? I guess you are the best engine builder on this entire forum. Congratulations!


Calm down. It's a public forum. Anyone is free to post on any thread. That's what makes it a forum. If you don't want comments, then a forum is not the right place to be bragging about your "innovations" that you think are so cool. Yeah, OK. Individual carbs and a distributor on a Northstar might look neat, and you might get a trophy or two at a show, but going steampunk with a Northstar is hardly "thinking outside the box" as Will said. Great, you fabbed some stuff up and made it work, but it's not road legal, and while neat, doesn't really build upon the engine's design and abilities.

It's great you've been building SBCs for 20 years. I'm sure you have a lot of experience with SBCs. But treating everything like it's an SBC doesn't make it so.
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Report this Post08-17-2016 11:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JLSG64Send a Private Message to JLSG64Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow, you guys don't like anyone who stands up for themselves, huh? I am just trying to share my stuff and everybody wants to tear it down. I have not said anything bad about anybodies build, why all the hate? That's cool though, everybody has their opinion. Thanks for all the input. Good luck with your builds!
John
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Report this Post08-17-2016 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JLSG64:
Wow, you guys don't like anyone who stands up for themselves, huh? I am just trying to share my stuff and everybody wants to tear it down. I have not said anything bad about anybodies build, why all the hate? That's cool though, everybody has their opinion. Thanks for all the input. Good luck with your builds!
John


How are you standing up for yourself? Attacking Will for sharing his knowledge, and asking questions about what you did to get power out of a 4.9, is not attacking you. But instead of answering questions reasonably, you're trying to assert that you are an authority, and so nobody should ask questions about what you did, and should just praise your work instead.

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Report this Post08-17-2016 12:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JLSG64:

Will,
You sure have an opinion on everything, huh? I guess only you know how to build engines and nobody else has a clue because you are so smart. I have been building small-block Chevys for twenty years and I think I know how to port and intake manifold. So do you do your own work, do your own r&d, make your own parts from scratch or are you just a hater of other peoples builds? I guess you are the best engine builder on this entire forum. Congratulations!


Chill out, dude.
I've said multiple times already (or at least I thought I had) that you're doing the heads on your build more thoroughly than anyone else in the community has... which means that you should get the best results, as the heads are the 4.9's big bottleneck.

We can disagree about things like EFI and carbs and that's fine... it's your car and engine, build what you want. I'll help in whatever way I can.

However, without numbers, it's all hot air. I'm really curious about how your heads flow vs. stock and what power your engine puts out.

If by "port an intake manifold" you mean the carb adapters on the Northstar... it's cool if you shaped them well on the inside. I brought it up because someone else on this forum built a similar carbed setup and *didn't* shape the insides of the adapters. Also, from what you've shown us, I don't have any way of knowing if you did or didn't.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 08-17-2016).]

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Report this Post08-17-2016 12:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Slammed:

Will is a smart guy and has built some incredible stuff, much better than the crap you've shown.

I'm surprised no one called you out at your horrible uneven porting job. Why are you polishing your intake ports? No bowl pics so I'm sure the throat is still tiny, and you didn't unshroud the valves or polish the chambers. What's the point of putting in bigger valves if you aren't going to do it right?



The proof is in the numbers.
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