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Turbo / Nitrous SD4 by fierosound
Started on: 05-28-2016 11:10 AM
Replies: 14 (853 views)
Last post by: Pete Matos on 06-04-2016 11:19 AM
fierosound
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Report this Post05-28-2016 11:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pontiac SD4 engine not always in a Pontiac...

From 2013 - The seller claims 500hp with just the turbo and 800hp @8,500 RPM with the nitrous on the dyno.
http://bangshift.com/genera...-super-duty-4-power/





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[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-28-2016).]

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post05-28-2016 12:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I highly doubt those HP figures for that engine. Don Nase Jr ran 6 sec 1/4 miles with a four but it was an Ecotec than ran very high boost . If the numbers are true forget about street ability. There was a guy at Lititz who drove in with a notchback SD4 and he claimed 170 HP.
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Report this Post05-28-2016 01:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If that was fully built for racing, he would get close to 350-400hp with a standard fuel injection system. Add the turbo to the race motor and you would go to maybe 550. I'm pretty sure you could use the nitrous for a 1 or 2 second burst before some serious issues occur. Now if it had the Cosworth head on it, I could see a little more power. I wonder what he is using for a fuel delivery system.

I just don't know the limitations on that block. Pulling 800 horsepower for any length of time out of an SD4 might be asking for trouble.

Edit to add.....plus he needs to get rid of that A/C pump

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 05-28-2016).]

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Report this Post05-28-2016 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lateFormulaSend a Private Message to lateFormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

I highly doubt those HP figures for that engine. Don Nase Jr ran 6 sec 1/4 miles with a four but it was an Ecotec than ran very high boost . If the numbers are true forget about street ability. There was a guy at Lititz who drove in with a notchback SD4 and he claimed 170 HP.


I think it would be possible, but it would have taken a time investment in the tune to dial up that kind of power. There is a member of the Michigan Fiero club who has a 3.0 SD4 with 2 valve heads and port fuel injection whose engine pulled 350HP on an engine dyno, and that's naturally aspirated. He also has a two stage nitrous system that can add another 150HP so he has 500HP at his disposal from his SD4.

170HP was what could be expected from a 2.7 SD4 with a Corvette TBI on the intake manifold. I knew another person who had such an engine in his Fiero.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post05-29-2016 07:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Consider that the original Fiero SD4 Indy 500 pace car had an "all out" racing engine that made 270HP and that engine was hardly streetable. If it were possible to wring out more horsepower, wouldn't GM have done it? Regardless for people that like the 4 cylinder engines, the Ecotec is a far better choice. Don Nase Jr made 1450 HP from the Ecotech on 55 psi of boost and that was an amazing achievement.
Here it is:
[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/4G3DKlFvhAc[/YOUTUBE]
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[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 05-29-2016).]

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Report this Post05-29-2016 10:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
Consider that the original Fiero SD4 Indy 500 pace car had an "all out" racing engine that made 270HP and that engine was hardly streetable. If it were possible to wring out more horsepower, wouldn't GM have done it? Regardless for people that like the 4 cylinder engines, the Ecotec is a far better choice. Don Nase Jr made 1450 HP from the Ecotech on 55 psi of boost and that was an amazing achievement.


Who cares?

What in the world makes you think a tubbed out Chevette with wheelie bars is meant to be "streetable" in the first place?

The SD4 in the real pace car was only one version of the SD4. Why would GM try to "wring out" more power from it? The engine was built under regulations for the class the cars were racing in, and it was naturally aspirated with a carb, not port injection. It wasn't an "all out" drag racing build. The Ecotec you are talking about was an all out drag racing build, and had a massive turbocharger. There's no reason a turbocharged MPFI 3.0 SD4 can't make 500 HP. It's not that hard to do. Hell, the SD4 straight out of the real pace car with a turbo bolted to it making 15 PSI boost, would have made over 500 HP, assuming detonation could be avoided and it could pump enough fuel in for the boost.

The SD4 is a fine old engine, but it's old, and the original post really doesn't have anything to do with Fieros. Heck, it's not even in a Pontiac. The Iron Duke came in many GM vehicles, and just because someone built up an SD4 to throw in one, doesn't make it related to the Fiero.
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Report this Post05-30-2016 12:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

The SD4 is a fine old engine, but it's old, and the original post really doesn't have anything to do with Fieros. Heck, it's not even in a Pontiac.
The Iron Duke came in many GM vehicles, and just because someone built up an SD4 to throw in one, doesn't make it related to the Fiero.


The SD4 was a Pontiac engine and I have one in my Indy.
Just found it's capabilities interesting - thought others in the "sandbox" may too...


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[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-30-2016).]

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Report this Post05-31-2016 02:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


The SD4 was a Pontiac engine and I have one in my Indy.
Just found it's capabilities interesting - thought others in the "sandbox" may too...



I thought it was interesting. Never would have seen this in the other cars section. This forum is so dead lately I welcome posts on any topic in any forum.
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Report this Post05-31-2016 06:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PancakeClick Here to Email PancakeSend a Private Message to PancakeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Consider BMW made 1300hp on the production 4 cylinder shortblock. Admittedly very different head and 90 lbs of boost, but the shortblocks of the 80s F1 cars were supposedly seasoned production blocks.

Boost is a funny thing, as long as you can keep out detonation and feed it fuel you can make crazy amounts of power. Also of course assuming the rotating assembly can take it, but isn't that what forged internals are for? So could a duke make 800hp if built for it with some massive turbo setup? Probably, yeah. Would it be useful for anything except drag or standing mile racing? Nope, the fuel setup and size of turbo it would take to make that sort of boost without getting way out of it's VE zone would result in an engine that was essentially an on/off switch only.

[This message has been edited by Pancake (edited 05-31-2016).]

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Report this Post05-31-2016 06:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PancakeClick Here to Email PancakeSend a Private Message to PancakeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
And looking at the picture that's not intercooled and probably not setup for water or alcohol injection. That's not making 800 hp
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Report this Post05-31-2016 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Pancake:

And looking at the picture that's not intercooled and probably not setup for water or alcohol injection. That's not making 800 hp


To be fair, I can't even see in the picture where it's getting fuel from. All I see is a turbo going through the manifold straight to the head, with no discernible fuel injection or throttle plate at all. Heck, I can't even see any nitrous foggers. It could all be stealthily mounted on the bottom side of the intake, to make people looking at it think that maybe it's less than 10 PSI boost, since there's no intercooler.

It was only making 500 HP on turbo only. The 800 HP would be on turbo + nitrous. The numbers aren't unattainable for what's there.

EDIT: Actually, it looks like there is a custom intake manifold, with a carb mounted on it, which is way over behind the passenger headlight, and before the turbo, so the fuel and nitrous are all being mixed in, prior to going through the turbo. I'm surprised it hasn't blown up.

[This message has been edited by dobey (edited 05-31-2016).]

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Report this Post06-02-2016 10:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

EDIT: Actually, it looks like there is a custom intake manifold, with a carb mounted on it, which is way over behind the passenger headlight,
and before the turbo, so the fuel and nitrous are all being mixed in, prior to going through the turbo. I'm surprised it hasn't blown up.



That's almost like the "homogenizer" in Smokey Yunick's Fiero with the "hot vapor" Duke engine.
Too bad Smokey didn't have an SD4 to work with when he was developing this.
http://www.hotrod.com/how-t...iero-hot-air-engine/

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-02-2016).]

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Report this Post06-04-2016 02:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For those that don't believe.

A 4-cylinder Fiero belting out only 370 bhp took the NHRA's Competition Eliminator title
at the Keystone Nationals on September 15, 1985 with a best 1/4-mile time of 9.72 seconds at 134.41 mph.
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Report this Post06-04-2016 08:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Orriginally posted by Orief
//www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin...thread=000020&page=9
(I've looked for magazine article to verify this...)

 
quote

As for SD4 power, The drag race car built by the Rod Shop hit 550hp normally aspirated using alcohol fuel. Vanderley Engineering use to build SD4's for the race teams and sell engines for street use. They started at 232hp for fuel injected and emission compliant 2.7L version and a 285hp with a 4-bbl carb non-emission compliant 2.7L (it had a larger cam and higher compression). It was around $10k for the 232hp version and $12K for the 285hp version. Not to mention they would build them to suit. You could get the engines in 2.5L, 2.7L. 3.0L, and 3.3L.


I think he was thinking of this one at 538hp
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/096552.html



And there's been SD4s like this in vehicles

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-05-2016).]

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Pete Matos
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Report this Post06-04-2016 11:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Pete MatosSend a Private Message to Pete MatosEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That is an amazing car and a beautiful paint job. I would love to have an SD4 fiero GT like that.... It must have sounded amazing running on alcohol like that too

Pete

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