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Rodney Motor Upgrade for Faster Power Windows by fieroguru
Started on: 05-23-2016 09:25 PM
Replies: 15 (1067 views)
Last post by: Patrick on 05-26-2016 05:39 PM
fieroguru
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Report this Post05-23-2016 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was given the opportunity to beta test Rodney's motor upgrade for the Fiero power windows.
http://rodneydickman.com/ca...h=21&products_id=383

Fierobsessed was the first to adapt these late model motors to a Fiero about 2 years ago. //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/000317.html
The motors must have an adapter plate to be mounted to the Fiero scissor cam bracket, and this adapter is what was pushing the motors too far into the door causing potential interference issues as well as motor shaft support challenges.

Rodney's solution is creative in that his adapter plate mounts to the backside of the motor gear box (not in between the gear box and the scissor cam bracket). This allows him to use a 1/8" plate without concerns of interference. It places the shaft of the motor into the existing hole in the stock scissor cam bracket, so there is no need for a support bushing. The motor is mounted below the stock mounting surface and has a very close clearance to the body of the scissor cam to ensure it stays properly meshed with the motor gear.



The install requires trimming a small tab off the stock bracket for motor clearance, enlarging 2 of the stock rivet holes, and locating and drilling a 3rd hole. From there everything bolts into place and he supplies the bolts, nuts. You will need to extend the wires on your harness.

Here are the results I got from this installation (note: I am using the stock harness and old switches of unknown condition - no quickener relays). I have new switches on order and will see if they make a difference from the window speed I currently have.


With Rodney's kit, both of my doors ended up with about 1/4" of clearance between the motor and the window track which should be enough to overcome any variation from door to door (unless collision damaged).

Driver Side:


Passenger Side:


A couple of pictures with the motor installed. Since I welded the nuts to the bracket, I went ahead and painted mine.



Now, a couple of noteworthy things to pay attention to:

1. To maximize the results from this installation, you need to clean and lubricate the 2 horizontal tracks as well as the one vertical track that all the window wheels ride in. I found WD40 worked well to soften the existing grease so that it could be wiped away. I used a small wire brush for the harder grease deposits.

2. When extending the wires, reverse the polarity (Brown to Blue, Blue to Brown). The motors install LH on the driver side and RH on the passenger side as they should, but since these motors do not have the extra idler gear the stock Fiero motors have, the rotation of the output gear is reversed. You need to reverse the polarity at the motor to correct the output gear rotation.

3. The mounting hardware to attach the scissor cam/motor assembly to the door has very little room. Rodney will supply the proper length bolts (slightly shorter than shown), but it is worth verifying this or there might be some binding. Here is an example picture of the bolt to scissor cam clearance:


4. I removed the inside door panel as well as the outer door skins for the installation. This allowed me to get the best access to the area for cleaning as well as picture taking. You could do this conversion without removing the outer door skin if you wanted to.

Overall I am quite pleased with the kit and it ended up being a better solution than I was working on!

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 05-26-2016).]

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Shho13
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Report this Post05-23-2016 10:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Shho13Click Here to Email Shho13Send a Private Message to Shho13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow, that window is a rocket ship! Very impressed... I lubed the poop out of my old stuff, and while it's an improvement, it's nowhere near as fast as these... It's definitely something to think about doing next time I plan on going into the door in the future!

Great write up as usual Fiero Guru...

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Lunatic
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Report this Post05-24-2016 07:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LunaticClick Here to Email LunaticSend a Private Message to LunaticEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is fantastic news! Thanks Rodney for another welcomed product. As usual Paul, thanks for the photos and taking the time to document the install process as well as pointing out potential issues.
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Mickey_Moose
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Report this Post05-24-2016 02:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
...sure, comes out with this, AFTER I had my doors all apart to clean the window assemblies (and install new glass, etc)...grrrr


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Gwhite18
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Report this Post05-24-2016 03:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gwhite18Click Here to Email Gwhite18Send a Private Message to Gwhite18Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you for reviewing his product. My windows suck and the relay fix didn't seem like the best option. I like this. They seem to work great!
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Alex4mula
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Report this Post05-24-2016 05:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice.
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mmeyer86gt/gtp
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Report this Post05-25-2016 01:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mmeyer86gt/gtpClick Here to Email mmeyer86gt/gtpSend a Private Message to mmeyer86gt/gtpEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
awesome! but would like a kit where i can source my own motors. willing to pay $90 shipped for the brackets to make this work.
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E.Furgal
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Report this Post05-25-2016 03:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
can they be flipped like some do for speaker clearance?
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fieroguru
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Report this Post05-25-2016 08:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mmeyer86gt/gtp:
awesome! but would like a kit where i can source my own motors. willing to pay $90 shipped for the brackets to make this work.


There are two main challenges to this:

1. The motors are modified to fit as close to the scissor cam assembly as possible, most importantly is that one of the mounting bosses on each motor has to be milled down some for it to be as low as possible in the scissors assembly. So off the shelf motors won't just fit.

2. The lower cost motors that are commonly available from eBay, Rock Auto, and other sources have a tapered shaft end on one of the motors. This tapered end has too much clearance to the stock hole to properly support the motor shaft. The motors that Rodney provides do not have this tapered shaft issue. Here is a picture showing this issue.


 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:
can they be flipped like some do for speaker clearance?


They are already placed higher than the stock motor and they are shorter in length. Both of these aspects give you more door room for speaker install (if you want to do that). The corner of the motor is very close to the circled bolt hole in red and the lines show the areas with available clearance. Here is a picture of the motors position vs. the upper bolt hole:


Here is the picture with red lines showing areas where the motor doesn't interfere:

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 05-26-2016).]

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mmeyer86gt/gtp
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Report this Post05-25-2016 05:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mmeyer86gt/gtpClick Here to Email mmeyer86gt/gtpSend a Private Message to mmeyer86gt/gtpEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
idea to counteract that tamper issue is to put an olite bearing or sleeve on the end of the motor shaft and drill the hole on the power window motor piece to match the size of the bearing / sleeve sounds like another step but could be an option/idea.
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fieroguru
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Report this Post05-25-2016 07:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mmeyer86gt/gtp:

idea to counteract that tamper issue is to put an olite bearing or sleeve on the end of the motor shaft and drill the hole on the power window motor piece to match the size of the bearing / sleeve sounds like another step but could be an option/idea.


While that is possible and some have likely done it as a DIY solution, the gear mesh between the motor and scissor cam is determined by this hole and its clearance to the motor shaft. Having the end user with unknown skill level enlarge such a critical hole will likely have mixed results.

Use the motors supplied in the kit and this is a non-issue and the install will be fewer steps.
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Fierochic88
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Report this Post05-25-2016 07:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierochic88Click Here to Email Fierochic88Send a Private Message to Fierochic88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've needed a perfect reason to make a Rodney purchase and I think I found one! These sound great.

~ Jen

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Report this Post05-25-2016 07:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I need to save up for a pair of these... my right window on my GT can be measured with a sundial it is so slow.
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JohnWPB
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Report this Post05-25-2016 10:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I watched the original thread for quite some time, and it is impressive how fast the windows are. That being said, $240 for a pair from Rodney. I can see the need for others (and myself) to purchase our own motors, as a pair of the window motors is $46.

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fieroguru
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Report this Post05-26-2016 09:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:
I watched the original thread for quite some time, and it is impressive how fast the windows are. That being said, $240 for a pair from Rodney. I can see the need for others (and myself) to purchase our own motors, as a pair of the window motors is $46.


This kit isn't going to be for everyone. If you can fabricate the needed parts for the conversion and want to use the lowest priced motors available, have at it.

For those who want a well sorted solution with high quality components Rodney's kit is now available.
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Patrick
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Report this Post05-26-2016 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

For those who want a well sorted solution with high quality components Rodney's kit is now available.


Would it be fair to say that the picture below represents the quality of gears in $46 motors, whereas the ones Rodney is supplying would be more durable?

 
quote
Originally posted by Fierobsessed in This thread:

I was opening my window about a month ago and it stopped about half way down making a gear skipping noise. My cheapo 4 year old window motor decided it had had enough, The large plastic gear in the motor lost a few teeth.



Instead of ordering those same motors, I went on a hunt to find an alternative to the crap cheap window motors that the Fiero (and every other GM vehicle) was using at the time.

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