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Fiero values -- a statistical anomaly by formulaWA
Started on: 05-10-2015 09:02 AM
Replies: 65 (1482 views)
Last post by: E.Furgal on 05-24-2015 08:27 AM
Gall757
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Report this Post05-15-2015 04:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
[B]Originally posted by hyperv6: You can easily find a low mileage car if you really want one.


really?

Help finding the right Fiero

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 05-15-2015).]

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Report this Post05-15-2015 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:


really?

Help finding the right Fiero



Really!

Just depends where you live and just being patient.

Now if you want specific colors and options the wait may be a little longer but they are around.

A friend just sold his 14K mile 88 GT here locally not long ago and I have had a GT 87 for sale near by for a long time that has gone unsold. I think it was a under 30K mile car. It may have sold finally after about a year. He only wanted around $7500 for it.

In the mid west Fiero's are still daily drivers year round for many and the clean ones come out in the summer. Also many that were bought and parked in the 80's are slowly coming out to be sold now that people realize that they are not going to make a killing on them like once was speculated. They now can at lease recoupe near what they paid originally with out taking a loss.

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Report this Post05-15-2015 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would seem logical that the Pontiac Fiero manufactured in smaller numbers than other GM cars is more scarce and therefore more valuable but that doesn't seem to be the case. Same with the 2 seat Buick Reatta, Chevy Corvair and 80's era Corvettes. The Reatta was ugly, the Corvair had a reputation as being dangerous and the 80's Corvettes were among the slowest made. The Fieros were inexpensive, had an economy reputation, all burned per Ralph Nader, and when they came out with the GT it looked like a sports car but performed like an economy model. Point is rarity doesn't translate into price. IMO, production model Fieros will always sell on the cheap end of the collector scale and that's fine with me. I like the platform as a base for a hot rod or custom and the timeless styling.. IMO, the only Fieros that will bring any kind of money is a low mileage or pristine 88 but so what. A Fiero is one of the cars that won't break the bank, they are fun cars and give many hours of driving enjoyment. A Fiero also makes skilled mechanics and firemen out of ordinary men!

------------------
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Report this Post05-15-2015 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

I would seem logical that the Pontiac Fiero manufactured in smaller numbers than other GM cars is more scarce and therefore more valuable but that doesn't seem to be the case. Same with the 2 seat Buick Reatta, Chevy Corvair and 80's era Corvettes. The Reatta was ugly, the Corvair had a reputation as being dangerous and the 80's Corvettes were among the slowest made. The Fieros were inexpensive, had an economy reputation, all burned per Ralph Nader, and when they came out with the GT it looked like a sports car but performed like an economy model. Point is rarity doesn't translate into price. IMO, production model Fieros will always sell on the cheap end of the collector scale and that's fine with me. I like the platform as a base for a hot rod or custom and the timeless styling.. IMO, the only Fieros that will bring any kind of money is a low mileage or pristine 88 but so what. A Fiero is one of the cars that won't break the bank, they are fun cars and give many hours of driving enjoyment. A Fiero also makes skilled mechanics and firemen out of ordinary men!




Well the Fiero was not MFG in low numbers and for a 2 seater even the 88 was over produced for the class. Most 2 seat cars other than the Corvette some years sell in numbers less than 20K. The people into 2 seat cars is limited.

The 88 will hold a premium but not much more over the rest if it clean shape. Most V6 cars will also hold some added value but in the end you will not retire on any of them in most of out life times.

This is the American MG. Not perfect handling, not the fastest car ever made and not the car with the most investment potential but a fun affordable car to own and drive.

As for working on it is no worse than any FWD and in many cases even easier to work on. If you think the Fiero is hard you have never worked on a tough car to service.

These cars will someday be worth more than they were new and that is something many cars never see. So the way I see it while they are not a Ferrari investment it could be a lot worse. Just look at the investment potential of a Cavalier Z24 of the same era.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 05-15-2015).]

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quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

This is the American MG. Not perfect handling, not the fastest car ever made and not the car with the most investment potential but a fun affordable car to own and drive.




Well, Sonofab!tch!!!! I've got an 88 CJB GT with 26,000miles AND a 1973 MG. Guess I'll have to keep working.
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Report this Post05-16-2015 06:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hcfordeClick Here to Email hcfordeSend a Private Message to hcfordeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sometimes it is funny how people have similar thoughts on something. Just yesterday I posted on how there seem to be fewer Fieros available on Craigslist as compared to last year or even 2 years ago. //www.fiero.nl/forum/F...135502.html#lastpost Those that are posted are not a cheap as they use to be either. Glad I stocked up when I did.

------------------
1988 GT, Automatic, running - bought in Illinois and drove to Austin
1986 SE, 4 cyl, 5 speed running - Bought in California and drove to Austin
1988 GT, T-Top - non running - "Trailered" back from California going to be restored (in storage)
1986 GT, highly modified engine/exhaust, but slave/clutch issue - Trailered back from Las Cruces, NM Chop-top candidate (in storage)
1986 SE, bought locally, Automatic won't shift into gear - Chop-top candidate (in storage)
6-11-2014 acquisition - 1987 GT Tangerine/Silver

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quote
Originally posted by Frizlefrak:


I own a near new looking 30K mile 1986 Fiero GT. I also own a nicely restored 1970 Mustang Mach 1. Anyone want to venture a guess which one garners more attention driving it around town?

The reason the 60's and early 70's muscle cars became so desirable was twofold. First, what came after them was slower, and many people (wrongly) assumed that performance had peaked in that era and was never coming back. Second, the Big 3 could literally do no wrong styling wise during that era. Some of the most beautiful automobiles ever built at any price came out of American factories during that period. Ironically, I think the Fiero fastback falls into the category of most beautiful at any price.

Whether or not this is a statistical blip in Fiero values remains to be seen. But I do know this much....I'm glad I bought the Mach 1 when I did...values have soared and it probably wouldn't be practical to buy it today. Might be a good time to buy that Fiero you've been yearning for as well just in case. But really, value only matters in two scenarios....if you're buying, or if you're selling. Beyond that, drive 'em and enjoy 'em.



Not a fair comparison, the MACH 1 was/is a beast of a car. I saw one the other day and you can't help but notice it.


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Report this Post05-16-2015 07:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bonzoClick Here to Email bonzoSend a Private Message to bonzoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe I should reconsider my $2500 asking price.

------------------

84 Show winner
88 LT1

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Report this Post05-17-2015 08:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pcgold:


Well, Sonofab!tch!!!! I've got an 88 CJB GT with 26,000miles AND a 1973 MG. Guess I'll have to keep working.


Yes I would not quit the day job! LOL!

Now there was a time back in the late $80 that people thought they were going to get rich. The story that said these cars would be over $100K at some point send many onto a run on these cars. One local guy here bought 3 new 88's as an investment. He got mad at me when I said he might not see a return for a very long time.

The sad part is he spent his kids collage money toward them.
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Report this Post05-17-2015 11:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hcfordeClick Here to Email hcfordeSend a Private Message to hcfordeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


Yes I would not quit the day job! LOL!

Now there was a time back in the late $80 that people thought they were going to get rich. The story that said these cars would be over $100K at some point send many onto a run on these cars. One local guy here bought 3 new 88's as an investment. He got mad at me when I said he might not see a return for a very long time.

The sad part is he spent his kids collage money toward them.


Funny thing about being right, people won't like you. I bet he really hates you now.........You should show up on his doorstep and ask him how his investment paid off, LOL! Maybe on his birthday when all the kids are home. hahaha

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hcforde

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quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


Really!

..... many that were bought and parked in the 80's are slowly coming out to be sold now that people realize that they are not going to make a killing on them like once was speculated. They now can at lease recoupe near what they paid originally with out taking a loss.


A dollar in the '80s was worth a lot more than a dollar today. They are taking a loss. Had that money been invested in stocks even they are taking a huge loss on the lost opportunity of $$$ they could have made.
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Originally posted by hyperv6:

......Even today we see how Cadillac is now building much better cars but are yet struggling to gain their reputation back. It will take more time and investment that GM finally has given them but they will do it. Today even as good as their cars are they have stepped up and said they are not good enough and will replace and improve most of them including the CTS and ATS. In years past they would just dump a Chevy engine in and discount the price. Today they are investing $12 Billion and even will have their own engine lines again not based on the corporate engines.


The Caddy overall problem was a bit different. They had a loyal following but they were older people (which they(GM) began to understand were dying off). When I was in the Grad business school at UT Austin in the late 1980's Cadillac came to us with a problem, How do we change the car to appeal to a younger buyer without alienating the older, loyal clientele. Abrupt changes would have put them in the red financially. The NEW GM gets it better than the late culture at GM. Take the corvette, I hate corvettes, never though they were anything special to look at. A number of months ago I saw a new model just from the back and was intrigued. Went home, looked it up and it really was a Corvette(The cross checkered flags was my starting point). I then went to the dealership to see one personally. The new designer has made my like the Corvette. My first "muscle car" was an AMX since then I have owned a Plymouth Duster, Lotus Europa, numerous MGB's, MG Midget and bought my first Fiero in 1984.

The manufacturing culture at GM 'during the day' was profitability through economies of scale not the valued individualism that we see more prevalent today. In my young days I worked at a Fisher Body stampoing plant in Kalamazoo, MI. we mad the panels for all the GM cars with slight changes in the press dies. The Cadillac division could be run under its own power in a few years with great success and maybe even outshine the Infinity and Lexus brands. I personally feel that as long as they are under the American GM branding they will be seen as a step child in the luxury car arena.

KIA makes a $66,000 car that is great. However, it is still a KIA. It is hampered by the name of the mother company.
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Report this Post05-17-2015 12:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hcforde:


Funny thing about being right, people won't like you. I bet he really hates you now.........You should show up on his doorstep and ask him how his investment paid off, LOL! Maybe on his birthday when all the kids are home. hahaha



That guy is lost to time. His kids are for sure grown and gone. I hope he gave them each a Fiero so they at least got something out of it.

As for being right it is not that. The fact is the truth is hard for some to accept.
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Report this Post05-17-2015 12:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hcforde:


The Caddy overall problem was a bit different. They had a loyal following but they were older people (which they(GM) began to understand were dying off). When I was in the Grad business school at UT Austin in the late 1980's Cadillac came to us with a problem, How do we change the car to appeal to a younger buyer without alienating the older, loyal clientele. Abrupt changes would have put them in the red financially. The NEW GM gets it better than the late culture at GM. Take the corvette, I hate corvettes, never though they were anything special to look at. A number of months ago I saw a new model just from the back and was intrigued. Went home, looked it up and it really was a Corvette(The cross checkered flags was my starting point). I then went to the dealership to see one personally. The new designer has made my like the Corvette. My first "muscle car" was an AMX since then I have owned a Plymouth Duster, Lotus Europa, numerous MGB's, MG Midget and bought my first Fiero in 1984.

The manufacturing culture at GM 'during the day' was profitability through economies of scale not the valued individualism that we see more prevalent today. In my young days I worked at a Fisher Body stampoing plant in Kalamazoo, MI. we mad the panels for all the GM cars with slight changes in the press dies. The Cadillac division could be run under its own power in a few years with great success and maybe even outshine the Infinity and Lexus brands. I personally feel that as long as they are under the American GM branding they will be seen as a step child in the luxury car arena.

KIA makes a $66,000 car that is great. However, it is still a KIA. It is hampered by the name of the mother company.


Here is the deal. I agree with much of what you state but there is even much more to this than that. This is why it has been a major problem at GM.

The culture at GM like you said was economies of scale back in the 80's. But even before that they were living on their past and not forging a new future. GM as a whole functioned this way as they held 30% plus of the market and those in charge had little worry.

As competition arrived it eroded the market with may more options. This opened the door to many makes that never had a chance before. Companies like BMW and Audi did not just rise up over night as it took them 10-15 years for BMW and even longer for Audi. They carefully made cars that were fun to drive and they cultivated an image that the owner wanted displayed on them. The choice proper product and type of products did it for them.

Cadillac held on to the past way too long and GM just did not really use all their resources to fix the issue as they were hurting for money. They made a lot of neat things but generally they were not as good as they should have been.

Even post bail out some of the old culture at GM wanted to hold back on Cadillac because they did not think they needed to do better. Mark Ruess had a major fight over the door handles on the CT6 because he wanted higher quality and old Culture people wanted cheaper.

Bob Lutz like him or hate him is the one who came in and started to break up the old culture. To his credit he has left strong people in place when he left to continue the work on changing how GM does business. As he called it there were two kinds of people at GM those who are the problem and those who are not the problem. Today those who are not the problem are winning with product.

Never say never that Cadillac can not be repaired. The fact is GM for the first time is fully committed to Cadillac in a way not seen since Harley Earls tenure. The good part is they now have $12 Billion committed over the money already slated for them and this will bring much change. Bad news is they just go the go ahead last August and it will take around 5 years to see the product but in the short term they are already working on new relevant marketing, Moving their headquarters to NYC to keep away from GM people that can create issues. Even cars like the ATS and CTS are great cars today but the new leaders at Cadillac say they want better and they will see may changes in the near future. The CT6 that is a very nice car and was the flag ship is no longer as it was deemed not good enough. This is what will fix them.

The one thing we also need to consider here is Cadillac does not need to be number one in the segment. In this segment the models are profit rich and you can make a killing in this segment at low volumes. The fact is Cadillac even struggling now brings in nearly 50% of all car profits for GM. These are the half ton trucks of the car segment. Add to it the SUV and CUV models Cadillac will soon launch they will be seeing increase in profits.

Hyundai as at one time on the same level as one of the worst cars you could buy only eclipsed by Yugo. Today it is hard to believe they have come this far. Kia also was a mess. Now I will give you credit the Kia is having a tough acceptance but at least Cadillac does have the history of once being the world standard and with the right investment, right product and enough time they can become a large profit center for GM.

Also you have to consider too GM still has Buick in the middle so there is no need for Cadillac to challenge the others on all models. That is one advantage GM has over the others.
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Report this Post05-17-2015 01:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

I would seem logical that the Pontiac Fiero manufactured in smaller numbers than other GM cars is more scarce and therefore more valuable but that doesn't seem to be the case. Same with the 2 seat Buick Reatta, Chevy Corvair and 80's era Corvettes. The Reatta was ugly, the Corvair had a reputation as being dangerous and the 80's Corvettes were among the slowest made. The Fieros were inexpensive, had an economy reputation, all burned per Ralph Nader, and when they came out with the GT it looked like a sports car but performed like an economy model. Point is rarity doesn't translate into price. IMO, production model Fieros will always sell on the cheap end of the collector scale and that's fine with me. I like the platform as a base for a hot rod or custom and the timeless styling.. IMO, the only Fieros that will bring any kind of money is a low mileage or pristine 88 but so what. A Fiero is one of the cars that won't break the bank, they are fun cars and give many hours of driving enjoyment. A Fiero also makes skilled mechanics and firemen out of ordinary men!




I'll take a clean 85-87 vette for 6k and a 6.2 lsx out of a wrecked Camaro. for 2500 with 6 speed.. and have one hell of a rocket.. on rails
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quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:


I'll take a clean 85-87 vette for 6k and a 6.2 lsx out of a wrecked Camaro. for 2500 with 6 speed.. and have one hell of a rocket.. on rails


I hate the digital dash in the 85-87 Vette
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Report this Post05-18-2015 08:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Csjag:


I hate the digital dash in the 85-87 Vette


Aftermarket has that covered
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quote
Originally posted by Csjag:


I hate the digital dash in the 85-87 Vette


I had 2 86s and an 88. I liked the dashes. One of my favs.

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Report this Post05-20-2015 10:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:


I had 2 86s and an 88. I liked the dashes. One of my favs.


Different strokes for different folks, its all good.
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Report this Post05-20-2015 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:


I had 2 86s and an 88. I liked the dashes. One of my favs.


You must have also liked white suits and Disco too? LOL!

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Report this Post05-22-2015 02:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for formulaWASend a Private Message to formulaWAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not sure I would agree with your statement of it's easy to a nice low miles 80's car if u just look. I have been seriously looking 4 a nice low miles tbar formula 4 the past 10 years. Have never found one. If u can easily find one send me a message
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Report this Post05-23-2015 09:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for formulaWASend a Private Message to formulaWAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok lets try this again

 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6: They take care of the cars and have hopes of increases values as they want to own that next Shelby. Well that has lead to today where we have a high number of cars from the 80's just sitting around in good condition. You can easily find a low mileage car if you really want one.



 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6: Really!

Just depends where you live and just being patient.

Now if you want specific colors and options the wait may be a little longer but they are around.


Not sure I would agree with your statement of it's easy to a nice low miles 80's car if u just look. I have been seriously looking 4 a nice low miles tbar formula 4 the past 10 years. Have never found one. I would say 10 years is being patient. If u have some secret connection and can easily find one send me a message.
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Report this Post05-23-2015 07:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87convertSend a Private Message to 87convertEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The low price Fieros command is part of what got me into this marque in the first place. They are a unique looking car with a lot of potential as a hot rod. The fact that GM shared parts/engineering across lines makes the hot rodding that much easier. I am glad that prices are and have stayed depressed. I am not looking to fund my retirement with these cars, I am just looking for something that is fun to play with and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

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Report this Post05-24-2015 06:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by formulaWA:

Ok lets try this again


Not sure I would agree with your statement of it's easy to a nice low miles 80's car if u just look. I have been seriously looking 4 a nice low miles tbar formula 4 the past 10 years. Have never found one. I would say 10 years is being patient. If u have some secret connection and can easily find one send me a message.



You can agree of disagree but I find them and they are out there. Just because you have not found them does not mean they are not around. I have seen enough of them to say it was more than random luck. I count 50K and less as low miles. Many I have run cross are less than 20K.

I have also found in the last couple years not for sale thought 3 different yellow T top Formulas. These are supposed to be hard to find but I have them in my area.

It may just be that were I live the numbers sold were great and we just still have many here. A Fiero on the road is not a rare sight even today.

Like I said a friend just sold a 88 GT in yellow last fall with 14K miles.

There was a low mile Formula near where I worked with T tops that never left the garage much over 20 years and it was sold about a year ago. Not sure of the miles but it was clean and I never saw it out till it was for sale. I never stopped to look before it was sold.

Either you are having bad luck or just not looking in the right places. The same for people who never see another Fiero. Here we have them and we see them. Elsewhere they may never see one but that does not mean there are places that do see them.

Generally if you want a clean Fiero with low miles I would focus in the Midwest where most were sold and don't expect them to be on this site. Most people that have them bought them and sat on them hence the low miles.

I can check to see if the one 87 GT is for sale yet. I am surprised as it saw for sales for a long time. It was clean but no takers.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 05-24-2015).]

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hyperv6
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Report this Post05-24-2015 06:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 87convert:

The low price Fieros command is part of what got me into this marque in the first place. They are a unique looking car with a lot of potential as a hot rod. The fact that GM shared parts/engineering across lines makes the hot rodding that much easier. I am glad that prices are and have stayed depressed. I am not looking to fund my retirement with these cars, I am just looking for something that is fun to play with and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Rolland


These are good points but at some point we would like to see some return on our investment. At least enough to make the car worth investing in to fix up other wise it becomes a money pit and just a bad investment in general. Even to break even with a car is good.

Also some increase in value shows there is some interest in the car vs. say a Vega that has little to no value as too little interest unless someone wants to put a V8 in it.
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Report this Post05-24-2015 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


These are good points but at some point we would like to see some return on our investment. At least enough to make the car worth investing in to fix up other wise it becomes a money pit and just a bad investment in general. Even to break even with a car is good.

Also some increase in value shows there is some interest in the car vs. say a Vega that has little to no value as too little interest unless someone wants to put a V8 in it.


WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!
how about joy of use as part of the payment when you sell.. yet you have to spend some money on repairs, but miles of smiles is also a form of payment/worth.. if you don't add that to your math you are in the wrong hobby
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