This is so rude. I'm glad people don't do this to sick folks with fund raisers too. The same level of BS would be, "sure you're sick, prove it's a real person" "prove you dont have insurance" "prove you dont have any relatives with money" "it's your fault your sick" or "you should have been smarter and examined your doctors better" etc etc. That's the parallel with the BS given about my buddy's predicament.
Think what you want. I don't care anymore. If you're right and it was a scam, you can pat yourself on the back for being so clever. Thing is your dead wrong, and I'm horrified to see this is the way you talk to someone without actually haven proven anything is illegitimate at all. I guess you're guilty until proven innocent.
It was a nice idea for a guy that got ripped off. Thanks for ruining it. Not commenting any further.
Enjoy your incorrect assumptions and arrogance.
You're whole attitude is illegitimate. You sure keep coming back and changing all your posts a lot for someone who doesn't care.
This isn't Cheers. Everybody doesn't know your name here. It's the Internet. It's full of people wanting money for nothing. You better get used to people wanting a bit more proof to the situation. Otherwise, go to your local bank and apply for a loan. That's generally how most people pay for expensive cars.
He keeps saying "he's trying to help a friend"....apparently he doesn't realize he's actually asking US, the members of PFF to help his friend. (If said friend even exists...)
Anyone else have comments on the shop the O/P said messed up his friends car?
I greatly suspect an "Archie's Left Nut" to pop up at any minute. It is nearing the end of winter, and the basement gets rather cold and lonely this time of year. Vitamin D has not been administered, and sufferers become symptomatic as time slowly advances for their dark state. The air becomes stale. An ever increasing squeak can be heard from the "Best deal on the internet" office chair. Armrests are becoming shined from body oils. Heavily used keys are showing the brilliance of a fine stone when the light hits them just so. Caregivers are becoming annoyed at the lack of hygiene. Something MUST be done in the great minds of those that do not do their own laundry. This is that something...
I'm sorry that I didn't see this thread yesterday when it was posted.
This one was not a scam. It was (is) a legit deal.
Les (hurstfiero) is a good guy.
I understand why people would be suspect but I think that I would have been much more proud of the Forum had you given Les a little more chance before you started beating on him.
I'm sure this could have been handled a lot better on both sides.
I haven't seen hurstfiero's posts because they had been edited by the time I found it.
Let me give you a little history if I can.
Les is not a "Fiero" guy. He is a Pontiac guy. He only got into Fieros because of his dad.
His friend that ripped off is the guy who referred Les to this forum & kept him from getting involved with the same vendor who had ripped him off.
It's a shame that when the guy who got ripped off thinks enough of this Forum that he recommends it to others. Then when someone tells that veterans story he has doubt cast upon him.
On this Forum we've seen a lot of vendors who have ripped people off. But when they rip off a Veteran (or someone in active duty) the Forum always seems to come together.
Les is a good guy & is just trying to help his friend. Sure he could have done this differently & approached the Forum differently. But being a new Fiero guy, he didn't know about past rip offs that this Forum knows about.
Yes he could have done it differently & yes deleting his posts doesn't help any. I wish that Les had consulted me before posting this but he didn't know that. LOL, He knows now!!
BTW, I don't know if Les ever named the Vendor. But I'm not afraid to name him. It was Jimmy's in Windsor.
Yes it was in fact Jimmy's Automotive at the time that my buddy Rich had to go back a million times, only to have the car returned in worse disrepair.
It's not even called Jimmy's anymore. Not sure WHAT it's called. I know it used to be Fiero Conversions, and Fiero Conversions Plus.
I'm just glad Rich warned me not to deal with them.
I once again apologize (again, seemed to go unnoticed) that other people have actually lied on here for money. I suppose it figures. And like Archie says, I'm new here, and have only been communicating in private with a couple members with nice cars. I had never posted before. I can see how suspicions might have been raised a bit, if it's precedented. But like I said before, anyone that would lie about someone serving as an armored sgt. medical rescue to get cash, has a hot damn place in hell waiting for them.
I am just trying to pull a chip foose overhaulin thing on rich, so he actually has the car in the condition he more than paid for already, instead of the heartbreak in his driveway and an empty account from it.
He has gone through some unfair and tragic things in his personal life too that has made his money situation so tight. When he used his service pay to do this car, that was a done deal....end of expendable funds. It's horrible. But I didn't want to list his entire personal life, nor even the shop that did him wrong in case there was any drama attached to the place. As Archie said, I'm new here. I apologize for not knowing the back story about these thieves that create fake sob stories etc.
I just want to help my buddy out, and get him what he paid for already...his 86 V6 GT in perfect running order and looking how it did before it became a yard ornament. That's all. I would feel badly if he were just my friend, but i feel horrible about it since he's a veteran who helped save others, and continues to train others here at home...and that his only usable money was taken in complete fraud.
That's all.
[This message has been edited by hurstfiero (edited 02-13-2015).]
How one doesn't know the levels people will stoop to in order to take advantage of generous people is beyond me. Of course they'll use the veteran angle, it's probably one of the most used among scammers. A lot of crappy charities are based on the veteran sympathy, Wounded Warrior being among the worst. The thing is, a lot of us are vets, and a lot of us have had a hard time of things. It happens, I just figure being a vet makes me tough enough to deal with it. I was trained to deal with adverse situations.
Having said that, there is no part of me that's glad this is a legitimate story. That shop needs to be addressed. Instead of money to fix the car, the money should go toward legal fees to recover his money and put the shop out of business.
I'm not a lawyer so I am just thinking out loud here.
I told him he should sue the place a long time ago, but he had no money for a lawyer, was fed up with the courts already after dealing with a nasty EX, didn't want to deal with the shop anymore, and wondered if he could even win the case since the garage was willing to take it back quite a few times and possibly again if he pushed it again, but they only made things worse for his car every time and ended up costing him TONS of money trying to fix their mistakes. He didn't want them touching what was left of his car anymore, and make it even more broken. They just kept taking it for long periods of time and making fixes the wrong way, and returning it to him, only to have the same problems days later, and then some.
Someone informed me there isn't a statute of limitations earlier. I guess that's good news....however I thought under Canadian law after a certain amount of years a company becomes exempt. I also wonder if the fact that they've changed their names once or twice since my buddy went there, they may be exempt from prosecution. My guess is that they would simply claim, theyre willing to take it back, instead of refund his money.
My buddy wrote a very detailed sheet on what he went through with these guys. I will ask him if its okay if I post it in full. Warn you its a long read though. They truly played him with the "experts" angle and turned a simple clutch repair into a full engine rebuild (which they DID NOT DO it turns out) and a top to bottom fix anything that's not perfect deal.
One exerpt from his paper on his dealings.... "later I had to take it back for another issue. It was sputtering and dying on me. He replaced breaks in the original vacuum lines with clear Teflon tubing that melted! With the help with someone from my civilian work, we replaced them with stainless steel tubing. It also came back from his shop with a “knock” in the engine. Regardless, at this point I was not impressed with Jimmy’s Automotive. Yet a few more weeks later, the car’s electrical completely cut out on me."
At this point Rich has no desire to sue, as he doesn't think he can at this point, nor that he would win. The courts already hurt him greatly financially with regard to an EX, very unfairly I might add (which is a big reason for being strapped for cash).. He had to discover the fraud recently when he took the top of the engine apart only to find nothing had been done at all, and had a friend help him look at other things that were sold to him as new, but were used and crap and installed improperly. I suppose Jimmy's could say my buddy is lying, and that since he took the engine apart recently, his opinion and observation isn't valid, and who knows what they did to the car...sigh. I can see the crap coming before it even happens.
Sure it might send the case to court, but if he doesnt win and get his money back for the 10 grand he lost, plus damages they added to the car, then it's not really worth his time. He'd just be out the money he could have invested in fixing it the right way.
That's why im trying to do the Overhaulin' thing for him. I actually though about calling Chip, but I'm sure he has a ton of people writing, and plus we're in Canada.
So OB1 this is his only hope IMHO.
Again, sorry about before. As it turns out you guys are just watching eachother's back, and now you can tell for once, someone isn't scamming!
I am hoping to become active in the Fiero community as well (new thing for me) and am already grateful for private conversations I've already had with members with nice cars on here. Now that you know this is legit, I hope you can see that I am a good guy who is just trying to help someone, instead of the crook you thought I may have been
Sorry for the confusion before.
EDIT *wounded warrior is a scam??? WHAAATT???? I
[This message has been edited by hurstfiero (edited 02-13-2015).]
I hate to say this but maybe he should look for a newer car. I wouldn't recommend a Fiero to anyone unless they have some good mechanical skills. If he can't wrench on it himself then it will probably end up being a swirling, sucking eddy of despair. I'm not trying to be rude just giving my opinion.
Fraud isn't a civil matter, it's criminal. He needs to press charges.
Looks like he has pretty good leverage to me. Plus he doesn't need a lawyer to recover his loss, the system will do that for him in the form of restitution
Originally posted by Taijiguy: Fraud isn't a civil matter, it's criminal. He needs to press charges.
Looks like he has pretty good leverage to me. Plus he doesn't need a lawyer to recover his loss, the system will do that for him in the form of restitution
This. It's great you want to help your buddy, but you need to help him get all his receipts together and put together a list of everything it was taken in to have repaired, and that is still wrong with it, and go press charges.
I will talk to him and see if he's willing to go through with this. Any time I asked him before, he said he was just done with it......didn't want anything to do with them. I suppose thats strange for a guy who served...that he's so non confrontational, but thats just him. He has a lot on his plate.
I'll see what he says as soon as I talk to him again. I hope he still has receipts etc.
My guess is if he DOES pursue this, (which I'm guessing would be without a lawyer then), Jimmy's will say that a)thats our old company and b)we offered to take it back many times (not taking into account the damage they did to his car, and how my buddy got fed up sending it back) and c) how do we know he didn't sabotage his own car
I'll send him that link too, thanks. Will report back asap.
Tell him to cowboy up and go after these asshats. It really won't be a lot of work for him, all he has to do is provide the evidence he has and let the legal system do what it does. He may not want to right away, but he'll feel WAY better if he stands up to these guys and doesn't allow himself to be a victim. That's how you can help him. If it were me as soon as I filed charges I'd go right down there and look those people in the eye and tell them to hold on to their asses, that I'm coming after them with everything I have. Four years? Hell, I think that's even better, they aren't expecting it, it'll make them shat themselves. Almost wish I could see it.
If it were me as soon as I filed charges I'd go right down there and look those people in the eye and tell them to hold on to their asses, that I'm coming after them with everything I have. .
You and I both. I was so damn angry when the last incident happened. I wanted to visit with a couple of my local cop, or provincial police friends and straighten them out, but he was having none of it, just so damn fed up. He figures their solution would always be to bring it back...which always made it worse. I'll see if he can pursue this, without a lawyer, and has a chance to win. Then I have to convince him. My guess is they will offer to fix it, if indeed they aren't closing up shop. He won't have any of that...and i don't blame him at this point. I'd rather he take it to western michigan to an honest shop.
I hope you're right and he can do this. My girlfriend thinks anything over 2 grand you need a lawyer in Canada, but we'll see. I actually stood in as a lawyer in a case where an HVAC company was taking my friend's business for a ride on a AC unit and won. Maybe I could help him again, but this case is a lot more complex, and I don't know the laws concerning his rights at this point...
Canada is not the US eitiher, our courts don't grant nearly the money they should to some people. I have some research to do for him I guess. Thing is I would give you 70% odds he won't want, nor feel he will win, nor feel he has enough time with work and the army and his fiance and her kid and his, to pursue this properly. I hardly see him as it is. He's still my good friend and we talk online often, and grab a coffee when we can, but I don't get out much with him despite our best efforts.
One thing though. It was named Jimmy's Auto before. It's a completely different name now. I have no idea how many times it's change names, or if it's even the same owners. Chances are the same owners, but i dont know what that does to his case in terms of collecting damages.
[This message has been edited by hurstfiero (edited 02-13-2015).]
OMG I think that's her name on that ad, Sue...so Jiimmy must be her husband. I have been told by others about her. They must be liquidating whatever they call their business now. That means theyre either done for good, or changing name for a 3rd time since it was Jimmy's Automotive. Not looking good for my bud argh!
quote
Originally posted by cam-a-lot:
This business is basically closed up. I was there a few months ago- They are selling off whatever junk is left laying around
You and I both. I was so damn angry when the last incident happened. I wanted to visit with a couple of my local cop, or provincial police friends and straighten them out, but he was having none of it, just so damn fed up. He figures their solution would always be to bring it back...which always made it worse. I'll see if he can pursue this, without a lawyer, and has a chance to win. Then I have to convince him. My guess is they will offer to fix it, if indeed they aren't closing up shop. He won't have any of that...and i don't blame him at this point. I'd rather he take it to western michigan to an honest shop.
I hope you're right and he can do this. My girlfriend thinks anything over 2 grand you need a lawyer in Canada, but we'll see. I actually stood in as a lawyer in a case where an HVAC company was taking my friend's business for a ride on a AC unit and won. Maybe I could help him again, but this case is a lot more complex, and I don't know the laws concerning his rights at this point...
Canada is not the US eitiher, our courts don't grant nearly the money they should to some people. I have some research to do for him I guess. Thing is I would give you 70% odds he won't want, nor feel he will win, nor feel he has enough time with work and the army and his fiance and her kid and his, to pursue this properly. I hardly see him as it is. He's still my good friend and we talk online often, and grab a coffee when we can, but I don't get out much with him despite our best efforts.
One thing though. It was named Jimmy's Auto before. It's a completely different name now. I have no idea how many times it's change names, or if it's even the same owners. Chances are the same owners, but i dont know what that does to his case in terms of collecting damages.
I think you're missing the point. If they charged him for work they didn't do, that's fraud. Which means it's beyond a civil matter, it's criminal. Your friend doesn't have to hire a lawyer, if he has evidence of a crime, such as paid receipts for the work, and photos and statements that the work was actually not completed, then he doesn't have to do anything aside from present the evidence to the proper authorities. What's more, if there's a provable pattern of fraud beyond this one isolated case, then there may be federal charges. There will be a warrant for their arrest. If convicted, the judge can order that they pay restitution for the work they didn't do. Even if the judge doesn't order restitution, in a case suchas this one where the defendant is found guilty of a fraud, it's pretty much open and shut in a civil case. If Canadian law is anything at all like US law, he can not only recover his losses, but he can probably also get damages. (Here a contract violation can yield treble damages, which is the loss times three)
Edit- Also, you keep mentioning the name change, which is going to be irrelevant. If it's the same people, it won't matter, as it's the owners themselves who would be charged with the crime, not the business. The business name won't protect them from prosecution if they really committed a fraudulent act.
[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 02-13-2015).]
,snip> EDIT *wounded warrior is a scam??? WHAAATT???? I
I just noticed this and thought I would address it. Not a scam necessarily, but the amount they actually donate to wounded warriors in relation to what they bring in is among the lowest of all the military focused charities. I believe they may be getting better after it was revealed a couple of years ago that they less than 50% of donations were used for charitable purposes. They're up in ratings, (a C+ I think) but still run with high expenses. I won't donate to them.
Sounds like a civil case to me. If you paid the shop and now they closed shop you could sue for a $millions and win but you'll be trying to collect from a shop with no assets. Taking money and not getting the work done is wrong but rarely criminal. Whodeannie took more than $10k but last I heard no criminal charges have been filed. That being said it, it varies by country and by state so go see a sheriff or county attorney or whatever they are called in Canada and explain it to them. I'll bet they tell you to hire an attorney for what's it's worth. There's a reason people create corporations in which to do business, insulates them from being sued.
I'll bet they tell you to hire an attorney for what's it's worth. There's a reason people create corporations in which to do business, insulates them from being sued.
not true. I own a company and my accountant has told me in the past that any liabilities of the corporation get passed on to the shareholder(s) if the business closes. With that said, in this case, suing this company is pissing in the wind. Car repairs are very subjective and almost impossible to prove. If the poor bastard that is now broke and wasted all his money in this $400 beater is still around, he certainly won't have thousands of dollars to pay for legal fees up front. Calm down dear Yanks. In Canada, you can't just sue someone because they sneezed on you or hurt your feelings. The money is gone. End of story
Like I said it varies and I agree some liabilities stay with the owner like unpaid taxes. I think your spot on that suing may give personal satisfaction but little hope for recovery.
I apologize for being incorrect in my assumption. My absolute best to all involved, and hopefully a happy resolution will be made in the future. I have no need for thieves in my life, and they disgust me to no end. Good luck folks.
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 02-14-2015).]
Wounded Warriors... less than 50% of donations were used for charitable purposes.
That's horribly bad. They should make a law (not that I'm all about more laws, but in this case) where you cannot be a charity unless you give at least 85% to the cause. IMO.
I apologize for being incorrect in my assumption. My absolute best to all involved, and hopefully a happy resolution will be made in the future. I have no need for thieves in my life, and they disgust me to no end. Good luck folks.
Thank you. I also apologize for the bad luck of making my first non private message, about this (involving a fund raiser), and not knowing the back story about scammers who have been on this site. Between the shop that screwed over this veteran, and the scammers on here...a portion of humanity disgusts me.
I hope something good comes from this too.
[This message has been edited by hurstfiero (edited 02-14-2015).]
Like I said it varies and I agree some liabilities stay with the owner like unpaid taxes. I think your spot on that suing may give personal satisfaction but little hope for recovery.
It depends on the structure of the business, but fraud is still a criminal case, not civil.
Originally posted by Taijiguy: Edit- Also, you keep mentioning the name change, which is going to be irrelevant. If it's the same people, it won't matter, as it's the owners themselves who would be charged with the crime, not the business. The business name won't protect them from prosecution if they really committed a fraudulent act.
A consistent pattern of name changing may be evidence of intent to commit fraud, though. If the same owners have changed the name of the business several times in the past few years, it's generally because they're performing fraud, whether against customers, or against investors/insurance. A good and reputable business need not change its name (unless it's sold to a larger business, but it doesn't sound like this place was bought out by Firestone or anything).
no it's some new name now, will drive by it later and see what it says. However if they're selling Fiero stuff on Kijiji, im guessing theyre done with them altogether.
I know on their very old looking website, they were concentrating on hot rodding old cars now 1930-40's.
Also at this point I dont know how my buddy could prove his engine wasnt run hard for 4 years now and the engine doesn't look worn out and full of carbon and things not replaced. That's why I wish he had sued them immediately when the shop said they completely rebuilt his engine, but clearly didn't. I told him right away when he got it back, that the car didn't sound right, smell right, perform right, and didn't look like anything had been done even without digging into it. He was so hopeful they had done him right this time. He was told to wait it out and the rebuilt engine would start working better over time. SMH
Anyhow, he's considering suing, but only if he thinks he has a chance to win, and a chance to get his money back and funds to repair the damages they caused. I am going to see if I can get ahold of a lawyer to talk to about this, and see truly if its worth pursuing legally at this point.
I don't think he has a chance in court in Canada TBH. Sucks, but we shall see. My goal for monday is to contact someone about his rights.
fraud is criminal not arguing that point, getting a county attorney to prosecute is another matter. Still haven't heard anyone indicate status of whodeannie. I think that case is very clearly fraud -selling peoples property to others without compensation for instance, but no update he's being charged let alone prosecuted. And we know folks were working very hard to get him charged.
Anyhow, he's considering suing, but only if he thinks he has a chance to win, and a chance to get his money back and funds to repair the damages they caused. I am going to see if I can get ahold of a lawyer to talk to about this, and see truly if its worth pursuing legally at this point.
I don't think he has a chance in court in Canada TBH. Sucks, but we shall see. My goal for monday is to contact someone about his rights.
Has a police report been filed? Don't expect people to throw money at you to help a friend who won't take steps to help himself. I'm not doubting your story - I'm saying he, and you if you want to help, need to be aggressively pursuing ALL legal remedies at your disposal. Other people's generosity shouldn't be an excuse to let criminals get away with their crime.
Looking into pursuing that right now. Seeing if it's possible after this much time has passed. My good friend is an Ontario Provincial Policeman. I think I'll call him and see what he has to say about it.
Has a police report been filed? Don't expect people to throw money at you to help a friend who won't take steps to help himself. I'm not doubting your story - I'm saying he, and you if you want to help, need to be aggressively pursuing ALL legal remedies at your disposal. Other people's generosity shouldn't be an excuse to let criminals get away with their crime.
fraud is criminal not arguing that point, getting a county attorney to prosecute is another matter. Still haven't heard anyone indicate status of whodeannie. I think that case is very clearly fraud -selling peoples property to others without compensation for instance, but no update he's being charged let alone prosecuted. And we know folks were working very hard to get him charged.
I don't know anything about that case, (although I'm surprised to see his name mentioned, I didn't know he was involved in something illicit?) but selling property that doesn't belong to you isn't fraud, it's larceny I believe. And is probably more difficult to prove, and has to exceed a certain dollar amount to be a felony. This particular case, at 10 grand is most certainly a felony and probably won't be ignored. If they also ripped off other people, it's possible there may even be other charges depending on the extent of the activity. If they wrote out estimates there could be contract law violations as well. Although those are generally civil, but do often come with punitive damages.
Looking into pursuing that right now. Seeing if it's possible after this much time has passed. My good friend is an Ontario Provincial Policeman. I think I'll call him and see what he has to say about it.
Just got off the phone with him. He says I could still talk to a lawyer, but as far as he can see, the way the court works in Canada, he wont win ithis case in Criminal court (for quite a few reasons), his only chance would be civil court, and he's unlikely to win there as well. He says Criminal Courts in Canada rarely ever side against the garage. Once you pay for your car, it's almost considered approval of the car (which is unfair since garages don't hand over keys to most customers until they pay their bill).
Also he said even in civil court, what usually happens is the owner defers blame to an employee (who usually isnt there anymore). They already pulled this on my buddy, a couple times blaiming "part time" employees for the workmanship. There is a huge burden of proof on the victim, and they're usually left holding the bag. He thinks since the shop chanced names etc, they also will defer to old staff, old company etc. He says that works up here and that my buddy is pretty much guaranteed to be screwed, even if he has the email correspondences and bills of sale, and witness to how his car was when he finally investigated with a skilled friend.
This totally sucks. I'll bet you were t his to have happened on the other side of the river, this wouldnt be the case. His best advice is to talk to a lawyer briefly, however my OPP friend knows law pretty well also. He doesn't forsee a lawyer telling me anything different. He told me to not only do the drive online, but to maybe organize some car charity events locally as well, poker runs, car hops etc. He's been advising me on how to locate city bi-laws on how to run something like this legally, and thinks it should work out.
So chances are the legal recovery method is shot, which sucks since I actually convinced my buddy to pursue it last night should it seem possible to win. Last chance at new the contrary would be from a lawyer monday at the latest.
(side note, he mentioned that a wierd law in canada is that a customer is only responsible for 2/3rds of a bill until the car is tested...and that should the customer not pay the remaining tab, the garage must sue the customer!)
[This message has been edited by hurstfiero (edited 02-14-2015).]
