Same here. Off the road - but it is 50 degrees out and I didn't get a chance to wash it before the white stuff hits. Today is the day! Have a great safe New Year celebration everybody!
I have owned fieros for 16 years. It was my first car when I was 15. I truly do love these cars. There is something about them, they are a joy to drive. Also, its always nice to get a compliment on our cars or start up a conversation with a stranger. I originally joined this forum 2001. I couldn't remember my user name and password so I created this account. I don't post much, but I do read almost all the post on here. I really appreciate everything that everybody does on here. People freely donate their time and expertise on here for the good of all fiero owners. This site is a wealth of information and insight into our little cars. I truly believe that our fieros have benefited greatly from this site. Like what was previously stated, people get older, interest is lost, life happens and so on. I think there will always be and ebb and flow of participation. It's kinda like a church, a church will survive on the young member that it has. The older members are there to teach and lead the younger generation, for the will not be around forever. So when we meet new members, we should welcome them warmly and guide them to be productive helpful members of PFF, because without the newer younger members, our little obsession can not survive. There is a reason this site has made it 15 years and in my opinion is still going strong. So, we must be doing something right. Just my two cents worth
Daniel
[This message has been edited by Spoilt_87fiero (edited 12-29-2014).]
I remember in the not to distant past when a few self appointed forum police answered many a thread started in Tech with "Do a search." So maybe a lot of people search instead of posting.
I've been in this forum since 01 and I understand that most topics have been gone over many times, but to a new person this just isn't a friendly reply to a question. I will almost always start a new thread if I have a problem to solve, many times even if I've found some info in a search, because a lot of people have mad skills and have the easy way to do something.
I enjoy this forum, and often come in here several times a day to read up on what's going on, but I just got a new to car and joined a forum related to that car, and the difference between that forum is astounding. I'm not in any way putting PFF down, and would have sold my Fiero many years ago if not for this forum.
I remember in the not to distant past when a few self appointed forum police answered many a thread started in Tech with "Do a search." So maybe a lot of people search instead of posting.
LOL I was on one forum where I think people raced each other to be the first to scream "Do a Search!!" every time someone started a new topic. The irony being, doing a Search usually turned up nothing more than a short-lived thread that ended with someone shouting "Do a Search!!"
On another forum, there were some very heavy-handed rules about Searches and new threads. Start up a new thread, and immediately a moderator would lock it and claim the topic has already been discussed. But what if you still have a question about the subject? Do a Search and bump an old thread, and immediately a moderator would lock it and chastize you for bumping an old thread! It was a lose-lose situation. Needless to say that forum died eventually.
I've seen cases in which there was a FS thread for a given item, followed an hour or so later for a WTB thread for the same item. This is rare, but one thing.
I have tried to look things up on occasion. First page great. About the time that a solution seemed to be forthcoming, it was time for the next page. Unfortunately, clicking on the next page yielded only a 404 error. Of course, someone would tell you to repeat this process.
This Spring, there were probably 10 threads of the first 20 that simultaneously had the same problem. Again, if you post on one of these threads with the same issue, you get accused of hijacking the thread. Start a new thread, and you're told to search.
Issues may be similar, but not necessarily the same.
PFF has archived threads. The only way to get more info is to start a new thread.
What may be obvious to one person may not be to another person. Sometimes, a thread is full of broad strokes; other times, it's minute detail. I remember a class years ago that I had to take. The first page of the book told us to create the document pictured below. After I completed that step, I turned the page, which was about placing your hand on the mouse. The next 2xx pages included details about opening the WP, clicking, using the menu, bold, italics, clipart, etc. The only thing worse was that most of the class needed more detail. People here are at different levels, also.
[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 12-29-2014).]
Originally posted by johnt671: I remember in the not to distant past when a few self appointed forum police answered many a thread started in Tech with "Do a search." So maybe a lot of people search instead of posting.
Sometimes, it really is the best answer though. The common "what do I need to swap in a 3800?" question for example. The forum is full of people imparting their knowledge and taking the time to write up excellent build threads and such. The way to respect that knowledge is to use those build threads, not to ask them to create a new one every time it falls past the first page or two of threads. Heck, there is one thread which has the first post as literally a link to all the 3800 build threads.
Yeah, the search feature is not very well optimized. It is certainly one thing that could be very well improved to help out in such situations. Some of the features from Stack Exchange would also be very helpful, such as voting on questions (posts) and being able to mark a question as a duplicate of another while keeping both questions around (so if someone ends up on the new question, they will see the duplicate link to the old question, and can be re-opened if it turns out to be different from the duplicated question). SE isn't a good format for opinionated or lengthy discussions though. It's designed for short objective question-answer pairing, and makes it nice for updating answers when they need to because things change over time.
To that point, if I had a 3800 build, should I not document it? Just complete it in silence? No pics?
I mean, if there are a bunch of build threads, should new builds not be posted?
It would seem that, while earlier builds may have been pioneers, newer builds may be just as much fun to read through.
Sure you can document it. But there's a difference between "I am doing this, look at it" and "how do I do that thing, that I'll probably never actually finish doing?"
New build threads are great, but use existing ones for reference on how to do a swap or dash install or whatever.
I remember in the not to distant past when a few self appointed forum police answered many a thread started in Tech with "Do a search." So maybe a lot of people search instead of posting.
I've been in this forum since 01 and I understand that most topics have been gone over many times, but to a new person this just isn't a friendly reply to a question. I will almost always start a new thread if I have a problem to solve, many times even if I've found some info in a search, because a lot of people have mad skills and have the easy way to do something.
I enjoy this forum, and often come in here several times a day to read up on what's going on, but I just got a new to car and joined a forum related to that car, and the difference between that forum is astounding. I'm not in any way putting PFF down, and would have sold my Fiero many years ago if not for this forum.
I hate that "use the search" mentality. This is a forum not a reference library.
Having said that I believe forum traffic is way down as Cliff himself has said. You see topics linger on the front page for days. Back in the good ole days of the early 2000s a thread would get bumped off the front page within a couple of hours.
People may be losing interest, or Fieros are disappearing who knows? I have a sale pending on 4 of my Fieros.
Build threads sometimes encounter problems. One problem being that, although the build may have been done previously, some parts are no longer available.
I have more success googling a build topic which will come back with PFF threads. I like to look through various builds, some start to finish others that just stop, because they are different and solve problems in different ways. I'm no fabricator so it was a duh moment for me to see on a recent V8 thread to see mounts cut out of cardboard and from there to use the cardboard as a template to cut the steel. To most people that's just what you do, to me it was something that hadn't clicked with me before. really like the nice clear pictures, I didn't install my current motor so with pictures I can see what the PO did in relation to what others have done with their SC3800 builds.
------------------ 1986 Fiero GT fastback SC3800 3.4 pulley, LS1 TB 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee with "big boy" 5.9 motor 1986 Honda Goldwing SEi 1200 fuel injected
Yeah it's been quieter as of late, but this thread. if nothing else has people chatting -or whatever- again. Like someone noted above somewhere, every forum has it naysayers/AHs When I first came here and decided to build and maybe offered a better hi-flow intake manifold I/we were attacked by many misinformed/fidiots that never fabricated a thing, insisting our desing would not work! We meet with the same BS on the 3rd Gen Camaro/F-bird forum and those guys never came round, even after a few put our intakes on their cars and said how great they worked. Every forum has its know-nothing know-it-alls. Fortunately, PFF has but a few. If you stick round you're going to find a lot of very knowledgeable helpful people here. BTW; if you're new to Fiero ownership, this is one the best places to seek help.
------------------
[This message has been edited by Francis T (edited 12-31-2014).]
I hate that "use the search" mentality. This is a forum not a reference library.
Having said that I believe forum traffic is way down as Cliff himself has said. You see topics linger on the front page for days. Back in the good ole days of the early 2000s a thread would get bumped off the front page within a couple of hours.
People may be losing interest, or Fieros are disappearing who knows? I have a sale pending on 4 of my Fieros.
I know a lot of you guys have been here awhile and I am definitely new around here... I found this forum by simply searching engine swaps on Google! Heck, I joined before I even bought my Fiero! Part of the awesomeness about PFF is the availability of all the info about the Fiero here as you all know, and to be brutally honest I probably wouldn't have bought it without having this place to fall back on. All the writeups on how to do stuff, the community to shoot off ideas and someone to get an opinion from really made the decision to jump in a lot easier!
Getting to the point; working on cars is goofy at times; and sometimes you need another brain from the outside to give you a nudge, as it has been said before... Even for a simple problem you may be having; just throwing up a thread real quick and having a couple guys leaving a comment or a tip really does help out, even if it is a repost of an earlier, prior made thread.
I see a trend. There seems to be monthly "new old" thread appear along the lines of, for example "HELP ME MY CLUTCH ISN'T WORKING", or "MY HEADLIGHTS AREN'T GOING UP HELPPPP" is a thing. 99.9% of the diagnostics and maintenance needed on the car by now is VERY well documented by the Ogre and on this forum by now! A search on Google first to see if there are anyone else already documenting the same problem as you would be an easy way to reduce these from coming up so frequently! (People doing this may lead to the slowing in traffic here too!)
You know what really infuriates me? After the problem is solved they don't put what fixed the problem!!! UGH!!! I need closure, dang it! :P
------------------ "Discord" Red 1988 GT under restoration!
I know a lot of you guys have been here awhile and I am definitely new around here... I found this forum by simply searching engine swaps on Google! Heck, I joined before I even bought my Fiero! Part of the awesomeness about PFF is the availability of all the info about the Fiero here as you all know, and to be brutally honest I probably wouldn't have bought it without having this place to fall back on. All the writeups on how to do stuff, the community to shoot off ideas and someone to get an opinion from really made the decision to jump in a lot easier! ...
You know what really infuriates me? After the problem is solved they don't put what fixed the problem!!! UGH!!! I need closure, dang it! :P
Yes the archives are invaluable... I search them all the times. Yes it's not necessary to start the 10 millionth "my clutch won't release" threads. There are plenty of them.
But what I miss is that back in the good ole days there would be all kinds of buzz and excitement before a major show. People would talk about all the preparation they were doing, what route they were taking, forming caravans. Then real time reports from the shows, and then tons of pictures afterwards. Very little of that seems to take place anymore. The recession took a big bite out of the shows, I get that. But in 2008, before the recession the 25th Anniversary show was a huge event. Even I skipped the 30th so I can't say much other than attendance at shows is down, so people posting about them is down as well.
The Fiero phenomenon is definitely dieing a slow death... ala the Corvair. Will never be totally gone, but definitely not going the way of the Mustang, Camaro or Charger either.
If we want more buzz and excitement, we must encourage new owners, new threads, etc. Pics are hard to post. As stated previously, facebook & google take some traffic away, and there are threads about most things.
As for events, it's hard. Most events are 5+ hours from me. It's not worth it for me to drive 10+ hours in 1 day to be at an event for 1 hour. Other factors are involved, also. Some drive across the country, but each person's situation is different. At the events, it can be difficult for newbies, because much is assumed. Just because a regular knows something is done every year doesn't help newbies. Just small things.
That didn't come out well. A few people do most of the work for the events, and a thankless job it is. The same core group participates. I have enjoyed the events I went to, and clearly there was a lot of qork involved. We were made welcome, and some went out of their way to do so. I intend to attend more events. Once I catch on to the little things ”everyone knows”, I'll make a list for new people, so they can fully participate also.
[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 01-04-2015).]
The Fiero phenomenon is definitely dieing a slow death... ala the Corvair. Will never be totally gone, but definitely not going the way of the Mustang, Camaro or Charger either.
While they may be some truth to your statement, it's pretty much across all vintage car platforms. Due to economic conditions over the past couple years, people are being very tight with money, hobby cars have taken a back seat to more common sense items. I know that's been the case for me, I didn't even fire up my car during 2014, just decided to take a break for a year. I did go to a couple Cruise Nights during 2014 and it was very obvious that participation was greatly down. Most of the people showing up were driving newer HP daily drivers.
Most of the people showing up were driving newer HP daily drivers.
+1
A lot of the shows I went to last year had the same thing... I don't see the fascination of having 14 brand new Corvettes or Camaros parked right next to each other. This is a car show; I can simply go shopping at the mall and see those things walking to the door. I like how Dead Man's Curve do their shows... No cars newer than 1976 if I remember correctly. For some reason they let me in with my Fiero though, which was nice!
------------------ "Discord" Red 1988 GT under restoration!
Originally posted by Shho13: A lot of the shows I went to last year had the same thing... I don't see the fascination of having 14 brand new Corvettes or Camaros parked right next to each other. This is a car show; I can simply go shopping at the mall and see those things walking to the door. I like how Dead Man's Curve do their shows... No cars newer than 1976 if I remember correctly. For some reason they let me in with my Fiero though, which was nice!
A lot of shows have a 25+ age rule. One big problem is that everybody and their brother has a Mustang, Corvette, or Camaro, and those owners typically have big clubs, which put together a lot of shows. These shows tend not to have the age rule, and tend to be full of the type of car the sponsoring club has, with not that many other cars in the mix. Then of course, the trophy winners at those shows, also tend to be members of those clubs. The Fiero was only produced for 5 years, and there are very few left on the road. Corvettes have been around for 60 years, Mustangs for 50, and Camaros for about 40 total.
Yeah Dobey! That's right!!! I wish these guys that bring the newer cars would at least mix it up and park in between some classic cars! Seeing a bunch of unmodified 2014 Mustangs right in a row just makes for a lot of passing glances while strolling through a show!!! :P
I love the rare one off cars... This one week a guy showed up with his recently bought VW camper van at the local weekly show by me... It was different and it drew a lot of attention since it was so rare! Heck, the only Fieros' that show up to the meet are my buddy OnixFiero and I.
------------------ "Discord" Red 1988 GT under restoration!
It's nice to go to shows and see cars from the '20's-60's, sometimes with their original owner or a descendant. It's nice to see beautifully maintained or restored cars, and it's nice to see modifieds. Fieros are a mixed lot. We met up here last Spring, and had a total of I think 9 Fieros. No two were the same. We had red, white, blue, gold, and I think silver. We had fastbacks and notchies. We had an Indy. We had every year except '85, I believe, although 3 were '88s, 3 were '86s, and 3 were '87s. We had original, stock, and modifieds. Only perhaps 2 were show cars, but all were nice. By comparison, I went to a show in October, and there must've been half that were unmodified Prowlers, HHRs, PT Cruisers, Mustangs, Camaros, etc. Yawn. Another show about the same time had Hudsons, Internationals, and lots of other cars. I don't think a single one was in production anymore. I went to the Museum of Transportation, and there was a club there with cars of all sorts. Few were actually stock. All had been maintained with hard work. Of course, people were complaining that there were no ricers there, but mostly they're in the bone yard.
Jake and his group were very accepting, but the Fiero has a small problem. It isn't a muscle car. Most other mid engine cars are an entirely different group. Is isn't in the group that collects classic cars. The Fiero is almost in a group by itself, and there aren't that many of us.
Jake and his group were very accepting, but the Fiero has a small problem. It isn't a muscle car. Most other mid engine cars are an entirely different group. Is isn't in the group that collects classic cars. The Fiero is almost in a group by itself, and there aren't that many of us.
That may be true for stock or near stock Fiero's, modified along with an engine swap puts you in another class. Since I've owned my car I've competed mostly in Modified Street Machine Class which draws all makes/models, my car has done exceptionally well in that Class, and draws tons of attention. Your last statement "there aren't many of us" is partly the reason that my car sits so many people on their ass.
Jake and his group were very accepting, but the Fiero has a small problem. It isn't a muscle car. Most other mid engine cars are an entirely different group. Is isn't in the group that collects classic cars. The Fiero is almost in a group by itself, and there aren't that many of us.
That is very true... The Fiero is definitely not a muscle car.
I was talking to this guy at a show I went to last year by his 454... He was being arrogant and playing off my car saying my car sounded like a rusty beat up V6 Camaro after he asked what I had. I laughed it off and told him he cannot be more wrong. The Camaro is designed to be an all American V8 muscle car. The Fiero is the only American made mid engine two seat sports car, it wasn't copying anyone. Granted Chevy didn't let Pontiac fully evolve into the car it was originally intended to be from the start, it was designed in mind to be something diferent! I agreed with him, listening to a V6 Camaro is a joke compared to it's V8 counterpart. However, listening to that signature V6 raspy sound come from a Fiero actually fits it like a glove. I told him to flip his views, the V6 Camaro, which in reality was a product of GM catering to that guy you know brag about buying a Camaro but then as you go out to see it in the driveway he tells you it's a V6 because it was "better on gas, and was a lot cheaper to buy". The rusty V6 Camaro you are calling my car is actually backwards, Unlike the V6 Camaro trying to be an ALL AMERICAN V8 and failing miserably; the Fiero was designed to be from the start to be a cheap, mid engine pocket rocket that has amazing handling.
I simplified it further for him about it being a different car class. I told him if he were to take his car to a circuit, or even more realistically at the local auto cross meetups at MetLife Stadium my "rusty v6 Camaro" would out handle and destroy your big block 454, just like you would destroy me on a 1/4 mile drag!
FYI, the Fiero can arguably almost keep up with a Corvette of it's same vintage on a race track for a lot less money and 100 less horsepower due to it's impressive handling.
Closing the discussion with this guy, who was not liking me telling him off a little bit after dissing my car, I told him that if it weren't for you narrow minded guys constantly thinking the Fiero was a POS, the Fiero may have been given more of a chance to evolve further (despite GM's own not wanting to give it a chance to actually become better than the Corvette) and make a new American vehicle revolution.
He left my car alone. I hate narrow minded arrogant people... :/
------------------ "Discord" Red 1988 GT under restoration!
Most of us are still here. Sure, as we age the thrill isn't the same, but still, I look forward to Daytona each March. I'm still waiting to see Proud1.
That may be true for stock or near stock Fiero's, modified along with an engine swap puts you in another class. Since I've owned my car I've competed mostly in Modified Street Machine Class which draws all makes/models, my car has done exceptionally well in that Class, and draws tons of attention. Your last statement "there aren't many of us" is partly the reason that my car sits so many people on their ass.
It gets even worse at mostly Fiero events when you show up in a Mera since most of the Fiero people appear to have little interest in a Mera. However, when you compete in shows lake the All GM Show in Silver Springs FL the Fieros and Meras are lumped into a class that is basically everything except a truck, Corvette, Camero, etc. from 1980 to the present (up to and including 2014 Cadillac CTS vehicles).
One of my modified Meras has managed to take Best of Class the two times that I have attended the show but there is one hell of a lot of vehicles in that class. I would like to see some changes in the car show classification system that increase the chance of a Fiero taking some prize home if it is well done.
Originally posted by Shho13: The Camaro is designed to be an all American V8 muscle car. The Fiero is the only American made mid engine two seat sports car, it wasn't copying anyone. Granted Chevy didn't let Pontiac fully evolve into the car it was originally intended to be from the start, it was designed in mind to be something diferent! I agreed with him, listening to a V6 Camaro is a joke compared to it's V8 counterpart. However, listening to that signature V6 raspy sound come from a Fiero actually fits it like a glove. I told him to flip his views, the V6 Camaro, which in reality was a product of GM catering to that guy you know brag about buying a Camaro but then as you go out to see it in the driveway he tells you it's a V6 because it was "better on gas, and was a lot cheaper to buy". The rusty V6 Camaro you are calling my car is actually backwards, Unlike the V6 Camaro trying to be an ALL AMERICAN V8 and failing miserably; the Fiero was designed to be from the start to be a cheap, mid engine pocket rocket that has amazing handling...
I agree with you in principle but the engine in any V6 Camaro has more power than any Fiero V6, albeit in a heavier car. But yes the L44 has a nice exhaust note even today. And if not killed in 88 the Fiero would have been even better with a DOHC V6 engine.
I don't visit as much anymore because Facebook forums have supplemented, but not replaced it. Not to complain about free service, but the forum layout bogs down my computer, layered nesting to find posts, searches that open more searches, lack of instant posting of media like pics and videos, and article previews. This blue dark forum layout is just not in step with modern forum types. There are other reasons too but these are the main ones. Sorry.
I agree with you in principle but the engine in any V6 Camaro has more power than any Fiero V6, albeit in a heavier car. But yes the L44 has a nice exhaust note even today. And if not killed in 88 the Fiero would have been even better with a DOHC V6 engine.
Not until 1993 did the F-body V6 have more power output than the Fiero V6. And even then, the car is still at least 400 lbs heavier than the Fiero. At least it wasn't compared to the 4 cylinder Camaro though.
With some of us a lot older than our cars, the Fieros are not the only things fading. At 71 it takes a lot longer these days for me to complete even simple projects. As much as I'd like to, getting and starting on another Fiero is out if the question.
As for the Mustangs and the other cars mentioned, a lot of our Fieros will still around after the others have died rusty death. My son-in-law is a Mustang nut we have a 68 and 65 in our shop now. Had another 68 but had to chop that one up; it was totally rusted out.
Not until 1993 did the F-body V6 have more power output than the Fiero V6. And even then, the car is still at least 400 lbs heavier than the Fiero. At least it wasn't compared to the 4 cylinder Camaro though.
I would quibble a little that the 2.8l V6 in the 85-88 Firebird was nearly identical to the one in the Fiero. The Fiero could breath a little easier and maybe made 2-3 hp more at the wheels. The earlier carburated V6 from 82-84 made less power but that is apples to oranges.
My Brother had an 82 Firebird with the 4 banger. It ended up throwing a rod, probably from the same bad batch that were used in the Fiero a couple of years later. The car was definitely not fast but the old GM business plan always was to sell the car on looks alone for the first couple of years and slowly improve the engine/suspension/handling over time.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 01-06-2015).]
I wonder. Since supposedly everything's been said and done, why there are any posts. The members with more tenure have completed their builds, as posted previously. Some are literally too old or dying off. If there are no new technical questions or builds, why are we having/attending events? ”Have you done anything to your car?” ”No.” ”You?” ”No.” What scintillating conversation! If no one is building, who is buying? No need for the mall or auctions. After all, there's e-bay. If people aren't comingnhere for those things, why for unrelated things. As posted above, there's facebook. No need for T/OT, or the rest of those things down there. So, we can eliminate technical, events, the mall, T/OT, auctions. So, that leaves General Fiero chat (which isn't a chat), Construction, and Archives. Yep, that'd be really fun and interesting. Not.
No wonder postings have died down. I mean, traffic is still apparently high. I think Cliff mentioned 50Gb or something per month. That's a lot of HTML! That can't be posts. As someone pointed out, it isn't that great to see a row of identical current-year Mustangs. The nice thing about Fieros is that they're mostly unique. This means unique issues with builds. Unless, of course, the final chapter has been written for all say 3800SC builds. If so, we may as well close the final chapter on the Fiero.
We can't both complain about the lack of activity AND tell people to search when they do post.
I just now noticed that apparently nobody uses the Events Calendar at the top (you can't be in a topic to see it... scrolling up now won't show it). There was a period of time when it was full of stuff.
I hate that "use the search" mentality. This is a forum not a reference library.
Having said that I believe forum traffic is way down as Cliff himself has said. You see topics linger on the front page for days. Back in the good ole days of the early 2000s a thread would get bumped off the front page within a couple of hours.
People may be losing interest, or Fieros are disappearing who knows? I have a sale pending on 4 of my Fieros.
Happy New year everyone 
