I dropped my Fiero off with Craig Cherek of Fiero Unlimited and Twin Lakes Storage to do a 3800 Series II supercharged swap and he is paid in full and no longer answering my calls. I am planning on bring the Sherriff with me on Monday to recover my car. Does anyone know how to reach Craig to fix this much easier for him. I can be reached at 320-491-8118 Harley.
per google they are in Wind lake Wisconsin SW of Milwaukee? All the money up front? ouch! Hope you get it back and your money. Maybe someone is near there and can do a drive by?
I learned this the complete hard way. Was told this is a civil matter and no criminal. The Sheriff can tell him to return the car but the money is another matter entirely.
Originally posted by exoticse: NEVER, EVER, EVER PAY IN FULL BEFORE A JOB IS DONE.
BINGO!!!
If someone tries to charge you full price up-front for custom work like this, don't even continue the conversation. Just turn around and walk away. It'll save you a lot of trouble.
I NEVER take payment even if offered before I do a job, except maybe for parts. Thats only because Ive been stuck with restocking charges when people dont show up, that sometimes cost me hundreds of dollars. If I dont precharge for parts, I dont order any parts till the cars in my hands. That may mean a week or two before I even start on it. Im always closed no later than 5pm, and all weekend. I dont answer the door or phone after hours. Being almost fully retired has helped with that too.
Originally posted by exoticse: NEVER, EVER, EVER PAY IN FULL BEFORE A JOB IS DONE.
Why not, I get paid all the time in full before the job is started. Its a trust thing. Not that I don't trust getting paid, not that I'll work faster on your car if you pay me up front. I just like the piece of mind that I have money to fix the car even if I have to buy more parts. As far as giving a progress report every day, I don't do it and will tell you. They call and say, hows my car doing not understanding how much time it takes describing what I'm doing not knowing what I'm even talking about. If its not going to be done in a reasonable time then I call and tell them the reason and possibly how much longer it'll take. You want a 3800 in your 20 year old car, it's going to take a while and I'm going to come into problems, don't make your problems my problems. But mostly I like to get 75% on a job I work on, nothing like buying all the parts and fixing the car and not getting any thing for all the work and losing money too. Of course most of my customers don't pay anything upfront. And yes I put a 3800 in a Fiero.
Why not, I get paid all the time in full before the job is started. Its a trust thing. Not that I don't trust getting paid, not that I'll work faster on your car if you pay me up front. I just like the piece of mind that I have money to fix the car even if I have to buy more parts. As far as giving a progress report every day, I don't do it and will tell you. They call and say, hows my car doing not understanding how much time it takes describing what I'm doing not knowing what I'm even talking about. If its not going to be done in a reasonable time then I call and tell them the reason and possibly how much longer it'll take. You want a 3800 in your 20 year old car, it's going to take a while and I'm going to come into problems, don't make your problems my problems. But mostly I like to get 75% on a job I work on, nothing like buying all the parts and fixing the car and not getting any thing for all the work and losing money too. Of course most of my customers don't pay anything upfront. And yes I put a 3800 in a Fiero.
Hey it's your biz and you can do what you want, but NO WAY would i pay you 100% up front regardless of whether i trusted you or not. It is just not a smart thing to do as a consumer.
Every person who has ever been scammed or swindled TRUSTED the person they handed over their HARD EARNED CASH to in the beginning, otherwise the ripoff artists would be out of luck and have to get legitimate jobs.
To me 25 - 50% up front is fair, anything beyond that and i take my business elsewhere.
This forum and the internet is littered with people who can vouch they made that mistake (100% up front). As a biz you can place a lien on the car and sell it and or part it out to recoup some of your costs. A duped customer is generally just out of luck,...and monies.
[This message has been edited by exoticse (edited 08-18-2013).]
For large custom work - always get a written statement of work, agreed to timeline of events (completion milestones, part deliveries, etc...), and payment schedule. I prefer the 25-25-50 payment plan, but each place/person will be different. Putting 25% down lets a business know you are serious and invested in the project. Put another 25% at some agreed upon milestone and final 50% upon delivery of product/work. If a company/shop doesn't have working capital at the beginning, then immediately be cautious. Expensive part costs need to be decided up front as well. Finally - EXPECT delays and potential cost increases. Agree (in writing) before the start of the project on how delays and cost increases will be handled.
Custom work is just that - Custom! Very few shops have a turn key set of instructions on what to do in every situation.
Its sad to say, but unless your dealing with local (as in your family has known/dealt with the shop for generations) then it's just better for all parties to get something in writing.
Ive always worked on just one vehicle at a time. When its pulled in, thats all I work on till its done. Even on custom work, I can pretty much dial in on the time it will take. As far as installing an engine...if a shop does this regularly for the same swap, they have most things down pat. If you done a lot of these specific swaps (3800 to Fiero), theres no reason it should take more than a week. Ive done most Mopar engine swaps, including sending out for exhaust work, in 2 days or less. I swapped a Hemi and transmission into a 6 cyl Barracuda in 7 hours from pulling it in garage to driving it on the street. I did have to take it next day for exhaust hookup.
Oh Jeez, NOT ANOTHER ONE!! What the hell is going on with these cars, it seems like we are riddled with con artists and jackasses who have a flair for getting folks to pay upfront for custom work 100%. How the hell do you even begin to do that with a custom job? I do CNC machine work as well as some rather elaborate custom cabinetry and fabrication work and I NEVER get more than 50% up front. That is enough for me to buy materials and supplies and have some walking around money in case I need something in a pinch to complete the job. Then I get the rest at the end when the work is completed to the customers satisfaction. I cannot imagine getting more than that and IMHO it kinda makes a person LESS motivated to finish the work not MORE. I mean if you already have all the money for the job, there is a damn good chance that SOMETHING will pop up that needs your money and then it is gone and you are still sitting there with lots of work to do and nothing coming to you at the end.
As a consumer I cannot imagine paying in full for something up front like that without ANY assurance it will be completed. Hell half the time I am leery of buying small items from people let alone something costing several thousand dollars. I am astounded how many people here seem to fall for these cons. That is not a slight on anyone just a simple fact.
Pete
------------------ "May the grins begin when you turn the key and hear the engine roar over your shoulder" ......Gall57 (slightly modified LOL)
My rule is: If the parts are custom order and not returnable (ie: keys or other coded parts ordered by VIN), then I get a deposit for parts up front. If the car will be around the shop for more than a week, parts are paid for up front. I never get labor up front or paid in full as I found this to be bad luck and things never go as planned. Otherwise, if the car will be out in less than a week, I don't mind floating the parts. I also usually get money for larger jobs upfront if I don't have a good relationship with the customer yet.
I noticed the OP hasn't responded since his post. Odd.
as soon as I read the first post my thought was some troll with a BS story to see how we all reply. He's prob laughing now as we continue to post our thoughts !!
It's kinda sad that we have to be at the point where we're scared to pay up front for fear of getting burned. I've always preferred to pay up front (at least enough to cover the parts), I think it shows trust and helps to build a good working relationship. But, once bitten twice shy unfortunately.
Harley sent his brother to pick up his Custom Fiero at Fieros Unlimited facility. This trophy winning Show Car was dropped off the Racine Ave facility over a year ago, along with a healthy down-stroke. Craig was eventually paid in full for supplying, rebuilding, and installing a 3800SC Series II into this trophy winning car. Craig was also paid to rebuild a second 3800 SC Series III which was supplied by Harley, and which he still has, for another Fiero to be dropped off in the future. Harley lives out of State, and was led to believe his engine install had been completed, trusted Craig at his word, and paid in full. Now, when his brother was finally able to meet someone, the truth came out. Sadly, the car had sat outside all Winter long; the chrome rims are all ruined, etc. It was under a pile of dust and junk. Worse yet; it still has the same engine in it. According to Harley, it appears Craig scammed the whole thing. So next...they called the Sherriff, According to the Police, among other things, he's done this very same thing to some other poor guy a year ago and there is a lot of public Craig Cherek information on Google . It sucks that Harley turned out to be his next victim. I'm with you Archie...I'm confused. How is it that after getting caught for pulling this same scam once before, he can pull this again? The Windlake, WI Police say they are very familiar with him, and he has restrictions. The last Harley heard from Craig over the past weeks is that he is out of State, on vacation. Sorry Harley. You are a good guy and you don't deserve this. Nobody does.
[This message has been edited by Aldino KO (edited 08-21-2013).]
What is it with the Fiero shops these days? Damn! Not all of them, but you all know what I mean.
It is hard for honest people to turn away from temptations much less someone of questionable character. When I started my bumper project, I had multiple offers of "investment" and down payment money. Some of those people re-offered even after being told no thank you! I'm just a nobody with a decent idea and people wanted to send money before I even had a finished product. I appreciated the confidence, support, and enthusium but I was VERY afraid I'd fall into that trap.
I think people just WANT to believe in their fellow man. I know I do and I have a tendency to let my benefit of the doubt run on too long. I know that about myself so I know to reel myself in before I get burned too bad. Others may not have that ability yet.
There is only one shop in the world where I would trust to send my Fiero for custom work. All the rest might be legitimate but it's too risky for me. Even with no money down, it's small consolation if your car sits outside in the weeds for years and is trashed. Not talking about any shop in particular but it's happened too many times to others and myself.
Funny part is, if it was a troll they actually did the opposite of what they intended, and actually did us a favor by starting a healthy discussion on what folks should expect, tolerate, or agree to from custom shops.
There is only one shop in the world where I would trust to send my Fiero for custom work. All the rest might be legitimate but it's too risky for me. Even with no money down, it's small consolation if your car sits outside in the weeds for years and is trashed. Not talking about any shop in particular but it's happened too many times to others and myself.
OP I will be contacting you soon, please PM ME if your contact has changed.
Craig Cherek put me through the same hoops and still has my Fiero, money, 3800SC series 2 engine and a ton of valuable fiero parts. He originally did some repair work that was very fair and quality, but then we decided to go the engine swap. That was a long time ago, and I haven't heard anything from him other than BS excuses. He probably has about 4000 grand worth of my property. It makes me sick to read he's scamming or possibly scammed another person.
I just stumbled onto this thread searching about Craig trying to dig up information. I have called, emailed, texted, sent letters. Excuse after Excuse, and still none of my property returned. I should have went to the police sooner, but I'm in Michigan, also a full time student, working part time and running online businesses. I just haven't had the time to handle it really. I hope you got your stuff back, but I'll be in touch with you soon!
I was thinking about this and given the crap some of these fellas have been put threw (Johny) I would almost be thinking it would be a good idea to demand a fiero specific shop as these guys are billing themselves to be to have a build thread on a site such as this to show their customers that work is indeed being done. Archie is a good example that comes to the top of my mind, he always has a nice thread going about the cars in his shop. With Johns car we also are documenting the build so he can see it as it progresses. Others that do work I see threads being done too and well there ya have it. I hate seeing people getting screwed over this is sad.
Full payment up front is a sure sign that the business is run by a scam artist. Anyone doing an engine swap already has your car for security. A deposit for special ordered parts should be all that is required. Two guys that I know on this forum paid Loyde Roscoe 10 grand and when they finally got their Fieros back a few years later they were in poor condition. To my knowledge they never recovered their money. Dean Cain was another scammer who took customers money and didn't do the work. Some of those owners got their Fieros back missing parts and in pieces. While there are honest people in this business, we've had more than our share of con artists in this hobby.
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 02-16-2014).]
Full payment up front is a sure sign that the business is run by a scam artist. Anyone doing an engine swap already has your car for security. A deposit for special ordered parts should be all that is required. Two guys that I know on this forum paid Loyde Roscoe 10 grand and when they finally got their Fieros back a few years later they were in poor condition. To my knowledge they never recovered their money. Dean Cain was another scammer who took customers money and didn't do the work. Some of those owners got their Fieros back missing parts and in pieces. While there are honest people in this business, we've had more than our share of con artists in this hobby.
Perhaps someone should start a thread about the good experiences and recommend the good conversion folks as well as the others.
Mike Gonzalez did my 3800SC and I strongly recommend him. Here is a startup video I made about a week after I got the car back from MIke. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_FnNgux-04
Dean got a new job?
