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Interesting morning - Talked with a Fiero Engineer by solotwo
Started on: 06-20-2013 12:08 PM
Replies: 74 (2606 views)
Last post by: Gall757 on 01-20-2016 11:32 AM
hyperv6
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Report this Post06-25-2013 05:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:

Anybody know how many engineers worked on the Fiero? Sounds like a lot.


You would be amazed at the number of people involved.

Too many think Hulki did it all himself but he had a lot of help and many of the other did many thing that really changed the car.

Like he said it take a lot of man power and time to build and design a car. This is why today it is taking GM time to revamp the lines. They just don't have the man power and the money to do them all at once.

Yes the tooling is more than likely gone if there really was any final tooling done.
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solotwo
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Report this Post07-13-2013 10:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I contacting him on getting together to look over the info that he has. Soon!
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Report this Post07-13-2013 04:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


You would be amazed at the number of people involved.

Too many think Hulki did it all himself but he had a lot of help and many of the other did many thing that really changed the car.

Like he said it take a lot of man power and time to build and design a car. This is why today it is taking GM time to revamp the lines. They just don't have the man power and the money to do them all at once.

Yes the tooling is more than likely gone if there really was any final tooling done.


I've worked on quite a few Programs at GM over the years, on a "New Program" that doesn't share another Platform, the amount of people involved for Concept Clay to Production would stagger your mind. The expense is HUGE and it takes GM roughly 4 years to complete this process.

In these times, Ford is kicking GM's butt, because Ford has 50% fewer Platforms to revamp/create, than GM has. That results in a tremendous savings for Ford in all elements of the business, and Ford can do it quicker as a result of this. GM is headed this direction, but will take some time.
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Report this Post07-23-2013 11:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We will be getting together in the near future. His wife had surgery so our meeting was put on hold. Now that I am unemployed I have more time available to meet with him.

[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 07-25-2013).]

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Report this Post07-24-2013 09:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GodSendClick Here to Email GodSendSend a Private Message to GodSendEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by solotwo:

I find out he was in charge of the interior


I hope you slapped him for that...


 
quote
Originally posted by solotwo:

and the exterior body panels.



And shook his hand for that...
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Report this Post07-24-2013 09:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by GodSend:


I hope you slapped him for that...


I love the interior of the Fiero. Very forward thinking and clean.

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 07-24-2013).]

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solotwo
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Report this Post07-24-2013 12:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry aint gonna happen
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Report this Post07-24-2013 04:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GodSendClick Here to Email GodSendSend a Private Message to GodSendEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jaskispyder:


I love the interior of the Fiero. Very forward thinking and clean.



I think you are in the minority.
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solotwo
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Report this Post07-25-2013 11:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any more questions that you would like answered?
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Report this Post07-27-2013 12:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by GodSend:


And shook his hand for that...


Well I reread Gary Witzenburgs book Fiero and Mark was not mentioned as the designer of the interior .
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Report this Post07-27-2013 06:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by solotwo:

Well I reread Gary Witzenburgs book Fiero and Mark was not mentioned as the designer of the interior .


The phrase "designer of interior" could just be a general term, there are an incredible number of people involved in designing the interior. I've worked at GM as a Design Release Engineer for many years, typically you have at least one Designer and Engineer in each of the following areas: IP, Console, Seats, Door Trim, "A" Pillar Trim, Sidewall Rear Pillar Trim, Floor Covering/Acoustics, Audio Systems, HVAC, Lighting, Electrical, Headliner, Windshield, Door Glass, Backlight, Steering, Control Pedals, Drivetrain, Body In White, Door Sheet Metal...etc., etc. There is no one person fully responsible for the Interior Design, other than the Director of Interiors (manages people), who just oversees all the Engineers in areas above.

All the engineers and designers mentioned above are involved from Studio Concept Drawings, Clay Model, to Production Release of all Drawings/Math Data. Technically they are all "designer of the interior" in a loose way. A design is only feasible when the "style" of the part fits within the confines of interior environment space, the only way this can happen, is for all parties to work together as a "Team" to determine requirements for all parts involved in the packaging space available. In addition you have "Manufacturing and Supplier" Support Groups participating in the above activities as required, because if you can't make the part or assemble in vehicle in reasonable manner within cost budget, the design is toast. There are an incredible number of people involved to bring a design from concept to production and many times the design gets restyled as it goes through this development process. That's why some concept cars never make it to Production.

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-27-2013).]

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Report this Post09-19-2013 01:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Now that I am unemployed I am setting up a meeting with him. Any good non smart ass demeaning questions that you may have let me know!

[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 09-19-2013).]

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Report this Post09-19-2013 01:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just thank him for keeping the design as it was and not making it "puffy" and soft"... or too much like a firebird
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Report this Post09-24-2013 01:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

Also if you get to know him you may ask if he has any thing left from the program as many times good paperwork and even parts pop up. That is how my 1990 Fiero Emblems were discovered.

I know that Fred and I have met people with lot of documentation too that helps fill in the part of the story GM never told.


He says he has one of the 90 emblems
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Report this Post09-24-2013 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by robiwon1:

Great story! I grew up in Pontiac, on West Beverly right across from where Fiero's were loaded onto the transports. I could stand in my front yard and watch them. My dad worked at Fischer Body before the Fiero moved in. He transferred to Lake Orion to Cadillac. My neighbor who lived across from us stayed at the Fiero plant and became an engineer and worked on the prototype Fiero's. I remember he had driven home the convertible and the 4-seater at various times. Don't know whatever happened to him though. His name was Bond, John Bond.

When you see him or talk to him again, ask if he knew John.


He lent me a book that lists all the employees. John is shown as working in the trim department.
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Report this Post09-24-2013 01:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

solotwo

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quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:

Anybody know how many engineers worked on the Fiero? Sounds like a lot.


Book shows 41 in plant engineers.

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Report this Post09-24-2013 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

solotwo

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quote
Originally posted by kevin:


Does it look so good because the roof is (approximately) an inch or two lower? Of course the first production run of Fiero's have a slightly higher roof design? Correct? Inquiring minds want to know.

Cordially,
Kevin


I asked him about that and he said the finished product was real close to the prototype.
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Report this Post09-24-2013 01:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

solotwo

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I need to correct my assumption. He was not a designer but an engineer at the plant. He worked on outside panels and interior. He was also in some of the Fiero commercials.

The two books that were lent to me are The Fiero years, shows all the plant people. & The Fiero Plant which gives a brief description of the car and manufacturing process.

[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 09-24-2013).]

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Report this Post09-24-2013 08:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A friend and I were talking about the Fiero and its history the other day. (Big surprise, eh?)

He mentioned that he was surprised that nobody involved with the Fiero program has written a book about the car, as viewed from "inside" of Pontiac. (Is that even true? I can't say that I've ever seen one.)
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Report this Post01-10-2016 08:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Internet-manClick Here to Email Internet-manSend a Private Message to Internet-manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroFanatic13:


Not to pick, but it wouldn't have been a "chop" if it'd had been designed that way, lol.


That said, this is the original prototype that was pitched to GM management back in the late 70's:





I would really love to see the interior on this thing.
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Report this Post01-10-2016 08:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Internet-man:


I would really love to see the interior on this thing.


It was in the one Fiero book. Not much there to shock you. It was a more basic version of what we got. This was an early prototype and far from production and far from finished.
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Report this Post01-11-2016 08:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
interesting subject and lucky meeting, in late 79 early 80 we got a Fiero substructure delivered to our plant in Taxachusettes and put up in the pent house as we were scheduled to get the new mini van for GM. The Lumina I think it was, we even had the van prototype at our plant to show the workers what we had to look forward to building, a plastic body on the steel superstructure.

Anyway the picture posted I have seen that car before, with those same rims, I think that one car was even used in some of the advertisements. First thing that stands out is the TA rims, as far as the angles looking different than what we see today, its an angle photo. Making some things look different than if it had just been a side shot.

I think it has even been posted before, that the car in that photo was used in some of the early advertisements. I don't remember where it was, in tech, chat, or OT. but it was on here sometime in the last couple of years but for the life of me I can't remember the title of the thread.

and no it wasn't this thread.

Steve


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and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-11-2016).]

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Report this Post01-11-2016 09:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:

I think it has even been posted before... but for the life of me I can't remember the title of the thread.


Do I have to find everything? It was only 14 years ago. Let's find the best darn photo of a stock Fiero

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-11-2016).]

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Report this Post01-12-2016 08:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Do I have to find everything? It was only 14 years ago. Let's find the best darn photo of a stock Fiero



Well ya ! you think with my memory I could remember anything?

that's not the thread though I was talking about. I think it was a much more recent than that one as I read the thread I even posted in the one I was thinking about, and that one is before my time.

Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-12-2016).]

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Report this Post01-13-2016 10:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by solotwo:

He worked on outside panels and interior. He was also in some of the Fiero commercials.



Can we still get ahold of this guy?

Questions, he may or may not know about...
-Just facts and whatever he considers interesting things would be cool to hear.
-Did he ever have to battle with other departments to change something or keep something the same, etc, and what?
-Id find stories about overcoming dealing with limited budget, changes that could have been but were not.
-Did he work on any of the other cars, prototypes, one offs, rare things. Are there myths he can bust for us?
-I wonder if there are any part differences we may not know about, like we know the 84 door panels are different (for example).
-It seems like Fiero is kind of what John Delorean's dream project would have been, did he have any relation with the Fiero?
-Does he have advice on improvements or mods? If he worked on the outside, how about the ideas of how the air flows in or out of the vents as you drive, etc... Spoiler effectiveness...wind noise...
-Did they know back then that the headlight doors pop up at around 100 mph?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 01-13-2016).]

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Report this Post01-13-2016 10:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


Can we still get ahold of this guy?

Questions, he may or may not know about...
-Just facts and whatever he considers interesting things would be cool to hear.
-Did he ever have to battle with other departments to change something or keep something the same, etc, and what?
-Id find stories about overcoming dealing with limited budget, changes that could have been but were not.
-Did he work on any of the other cars, prototypes, one offs, rare things. Are there myths he can bust for us?
-I wonder if there are any part differences we may not know about, like we know the 84 door panels are different (for example).
-It seems like Fiero is kind of what John Delorean's dream project would have been, did he have any relation with the Fiero?
-Does he have advice on improvements or mods? If he worked on the outside, how about the ideas of how the air flows in or out of the vents as you drive, etc... Spoiler effectiveness...wind noise...
-Did they know back then that the headlight doors pop up at around 100 mph?



Or a certain '87 GT Pilot Vehicle that was used in the '88 sales brochure?
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solotwo
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Report this Post01-13-2016 11:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


Can we still get ahold of this guy?

Questions, he may or may not know about...
-Just facts and whatever he considers interesting things would be cool to hear.
-Did he ever have to battle with other departments to change something or keep something the same, etc, and what?
-Id find stories about overcoming dealing with limited budget, changes that could have been but were not.
-Did he work on any of the other cars, prototypes, one offs, rare things. Are there myths he can bust for us?
-I wonder if there are any part differences we may not know about, like we know the 84 door panels are different (for example).
-It seems like Fiero is kind of what John Delorean's dream project would have been, did he have any relation with the Fiero?
-Does he have advice on improvements or mods? If he worked on the outside, how about the ideas of how the air flows in or out of the vents as you drive, etc... Spoiler effectiveness...wind noise...
-Did they know back then that the headlight doors pop up at around 100 mph?



Yes I can email him. He lives in Rockford which is just north of Grand Rapids.

steve
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Report this Post01-13-2016 11:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by solotwo:
Yes I can email him. He lives in Rockford which is just north of Grand Rapids.

steve


Cool
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Report this Post01-16-2016 03:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by solotwo:


Yes I can email him. He lives in Rockford which is just north of Grand Rapids.

steve


He told me that they used him in several Fiero ads. As I mentioned before he was a plant engineer. He worked at the plant from day one.
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Report this Post01-16-2016 06:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I can't imagine Engineering a car before computers, the paperwork must have been nuts.

-Design Engineer, Quality Engineer, Resident Engineer?

-Did GM typically have supplier Engineers in the plant working on design and quality issues?

-How did they handle change management back then? The door skin change from 84 to sometime in early 85 comes to mind as part of the body panel changes.

-Typical causes for line down issues?

-Any particular memorable days or projects?

-Who did the circuitry designs on the 84 Fiero?
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Report this Post01-16-2016 09:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CoolBlue87GTClick Here to Email CoolBlue87GTSend a Private Message to CoolBlue87GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here's another view, The door handle & keyhole above trim, using different side mirrors. Side trim ends at rear marker light.

[This message has been edited by CoolBlue87GT (edited 01-16-2016).]

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Report this Post01-19-2016 09:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IanT720Click Here to Email IanT720Send a Private Message to IanT720Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My .02ยข about the interior. I like it. I like how just simple, it is. I think the pods for the gauges are a cool idea. And in the end I like how they knew it's plastic, I know it's plastic so that's it. Newer cars have all that pompous plastic. That bugs me. Now I hate the grey interior. I had one, I painted it gloss black, and flat black two tone. It looked so much better and 10 years newer. But I do love the tan in my 87 GT. I think someone said it best, I think the Fastbacks and notchbacks both look good. I've owned both. But if you like 80's cars you prefer the notchie, and if you like modern cars you prefer the GT.

------------------
1987 Fiero GTX 3800 Turbo... My Build, ST3 Cam, Lowered, Wheels, and pics enjoy!//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089483.html

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Report this Post01-20-2016 10:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierolukeClick Here to visit fieroluke's HomePageClick Here to Email fierolukeSend a Private Message to fierolukeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by solotwo:


Yes I can email him. He lives in Rockford which is just north of Grand Rapids.

steve


Does he know which companies manufactured certain interior parts, like the shifter console or other trim pieces? Sometimes these companies still have the means to make a limited part runs. Either way it would be interesting to know where all these parts were made...
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Report this Post01-20-2016 10:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by CoolBlue87GT:

Here's another view, The door handle & keyhole above trim, using different side mirrors. Side trim ends at rear marker light.




Has anybody tried putting the snowflake wheels on a Fiero? I almost like them better than the lace.
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Report this Post01-20-2016 11:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:

I can't imagine Engineering a car before computers, the paperwork must have been nuts.



This background was not a prop. That's the way the body engineering offices looked.

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