I have found a manufacturer that has a OEM style aluminum rim. It is available in 16 x 7. It is very very close in appearance to the OEM factory 15 inch aluminum rims used on the later Fieros (GT, Formula etc). I am checking on the back spacing. So I wonder about making a one size fits all? Is that possible? The factory front rim on the 1988 is narrower. Is the back spacing different also? They have one mold and if the back spacing is not what we need a new mold will need to be made.
Anyone have any suggestions on a one size fits all?
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
One common size would fit, but not everyone agrees that they would look good on the front of an '88. The stock '86-'87 wheels and the '88 rear wheels are 7" wide with a 30 mm offset. The '88 fronts are 6" wide and have a 37 mm offset.
If you were to use a 7" wheel with a 30 mm offset on the front of an '88, the wheels would stick out 19mm more than the stock front wheels. To use a 7" wide wheel on the front of an '88 and retain the stock outside position of the wheel face, they would need a 49 mm offset, not 30 mm.
1 size fits all should be fine and help reduce your cost. I'd go with the 88 fitment, since most upgrade to vented brakes on the 84-87 anyway. 35mm rear and 40-45mm front (I prefer 40mm)
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 06-19-2012).]
1 size fits all should be fine and help reduce your cost. I'd go with the 88 fitment, since most upgrade to vented brakes on the 84-87 anyway. 35mm rear and 40-45mm front (I prefer 40mm)
I think what Rodney means by "one size fits all" is there wouldn't be a difference front front wheels to back. That's the current dillemia. If a wheel is made specifically to satisfy 88 specs is going to look slightly strange in regards to being on a pre-88 car, and vise-versa. From what I am reading Rodney is wanting a single wheel tooled that can satisfy all situations.
My personal opinion would be to say go ahead and set it up for pre-88 cars, since there are WAY more pre-88 cars on the road.
One common size would fit, but not everyone agrees that they would look good on the front of an '88. The stock '86-'87 wheels and the '88 rear wheels are 7" wide with a 30 mm offset. The '88 fronts are 6" wide and have a 37 mm offset.
If you were to use a 7" wheel with a 30 mm offset on the front of an '88, the wheels would stick out 19mm more than the stock front wheels. To use a 7" wide wheel on the front of an '88 and retain the stock outside position of the wheel face, they would need a 49 mm offset, not 30 mm.
How would it look on all Fieros if one split the difference. Say 39.5 mm offset.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Originally posted by Rodney: How would it look on all Fieros if one split the difference. Say 39.5 mm offset.
Taste is a personal thing. The stock '88 front wheels already stick out too much in my opinion.
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Originally posted by Fiero38SC: Couldn't you just mill 19mm off the 30mm offset wheels to make it 49mm? Is there enough material to do that?
That would still result in two different wheel configurations since the lug nut holes would have to be counterbored to different depths depending on which offset you'd want.
Why not just make two wheels. One for all rear's and then two diff for the fronts (84-87, 88). If they can make one size, they can make two. Also, what about those who want a 8"-9" rear wheel? I think we have all heard more than once "if they only made a 16" rim that looked like the stock crosslace, id buy them". This could be money if they do it right.
The cost to make the casting die or what ever it is called. Not cheap.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
If the lion's share of the cost is fabricating the casting mould, then perhaps Fiero38SC's idea is affordable. Once cast, each wheel has to under go two machining operations no matter what the offset and hole pattern are: milling the mounting face and drilling the lug pattern. If they were to be cast with the mounting face approximately 30 mm from the center line of the rim, then they could conceivably be machined to either 30 or 48. Then, the lug pattern counterbore could be drilled to coincide with the correct offset.
I'd love to have 16" OEM-style wheels on my '88 Formula. However, I'd personally only consider it if all the specs for the front and rear wheels matched the factory specs (except for the larger diameter). 2 different offsets, 2 different lip dimensions, just like stock. However, as has been said, there are a lot more pre-'88 Fieros out there than there are '88s, so even going with a single style should still be profitable.
------------------ Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com
1988 Fiero Formula - Automoda convertible repainted PPG Ferrari 'Giallo Modena' yellow
That would still result in wheels on an '88 that stick out 8mm past stock on the front and tuck in the wheels 5 mm more than stock on everything else. When you only look at the front or only the rear of an '88 then it's not as noticeable, but when you look at one side of the car at a shallow angle, the front wheels will appear to have a 5mm + 8mm = 13mm (or a 1/2") wider track on each side than the rear. It's a solution, yes, but milling the mounting face and countersinking the lug holes to two different offsets is a better one IMHO.
That would still result in wheels on an '88 that stick out 8mm past stock on the front and tuck in the wheels 5 mm more than stock on everything else. When you only look at the front or only the rear of an '88 then it's not as noticeable, but when you look at one side of the car at a shallow angle, the front wheels will appear to have a 5mm + 8mm = 13mm (or a 1/2") wider track on each side than the rear. It's a solution, yes, but milling the mounting face and countersinking the lug holes to two different offsets is a better one IMHO.
You must like your wheels inside of the fender. I prefer flush. Sticking out 8mm more than stock is a good thing (flush). Remember the higher the offset # the more the wheel tucks in, lower moves it out. So with a 40mm offset, you are gonna actually move the wheel in, but (IIRC) we are talking about making a wider rim width will help the offset overall.
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 06-19-2012).]
Originally posted by BV MotorSports: You must like your wheels inside of the fender.
The stock wheels and tires on the front of an '88 with stock camber aren't inside the fenders at the top of the tire, and as per my first post, because the new wheel Rodney is proposing is an inch wider than stock, it would need an offset of 49 mm to be at the same location as stock at the road side face. By using a 40 mm offset, it would stick out 9 mm more per side. A lower profile tire will bulge out a little less and account for some of the appearance, but we're only talking about a 16" wheel, not a 17".
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Originally posted by BV MotorSports: Remember the higher the offset # the more the wheel tucks in, lower moves it out.
True, but you cannot look at offsets in isolation without considering the rim width since they are interconnected.
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Originally posted by BV MotorSports: So with a 40mm offset, you are gonna actually move the wheel in, but (IIRC) we are talking about making a wider rim width will help the offset overall.
The trouble is that the '88 front wheel has a 37mm offset so increasing it to 40 only tucks it in 3 more millimeters... not enough needed to compensate for the 1" wider rim, so the overall effect is that it still sticks it out more by 9 mm.
The rest is all about taste, which I don't care to argue: you either like wheels that stick out more than stock or you don't, but the math doesn't lie.
The trouble is that the '88 front wheel has a 37mm offset so increasing it to 40 only tucks it in 3 more millimeters... not enough needed to compensate for the 1" wider rim, so the overall effect is that it still sticks it out more by 9 mm.
The rest is all about taste, which I don't care to argue: you either like wheels that stick out more than stock or you don't, but the math doesn't lie.
You obviously like stock fitment.. I hate them. The wheels on most cars made are set too far inboard for my taste. Which I pointed out early on. Math in this case has jack-monkey squat to do with personal taste so whether it lies or not is moot. I like flush fitting wheels. The options I mentioned would be a good compromise. The only way Rodney is going to get anywhere on this is to have a poll.
I'd not even bother with 16" wheels, as rubber for 16" wheels are getting thin on size choices now.. the g body guys with gta wheels are finding this out.. and some one already makes the gt wheels in 17/18/19/20" but are crazy priced
I'd not even bother with 16" wheels, as rubber for 16" wheels are getting thin on size choices now.. the g body guys with gta wheels are finding this out.. and some one already makes the gt wheels in 17/18/19/20" but are crazy priced
I agree that 16" wheels are not very popular. If one changes wheel sizes the choices in 17" dia are far superior. You could put a 225 x 55 x 17 7 1/2" wheel on a Fiero and only move the wheel in .4". That's less than 1/2 inch and IIRC it fits with no issues. .
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I'm not looking to make custom aftermarket rims in 17" or larger. I'm looking to make a rim that looks OEM and is slightly larger. 16" is the only size I would consider.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
I'm not looking to make custom aftermarket rims in 17" or larger. I'm looking to make a rim that looks OEM and is slightly larger. 16" is the only size I would consider.
thats fine.. IF.. tire makers agree with you.. they do not. they are disco'n 16" tire sizes at an alarming rate.. yes you'll be able to get them through places like cloker tire.. but then you have one or two sizes.. and whatever they want to charge for them.. I like your idea.. I do.. but your at the mercy of the tire companies.. the grand mark and gta's came in 16" the snowflake/mesh wheels don't look out of place at 17" like some rims that are repopped in the newer bigger sizes.. the gta's where a 2 piece wheel.. many wheel co. make the alum rim part (centerline in cali) you'd only need the center made and then any backspace could be made from the same two parts.. just depend on where they weld the two together. allowing a bigger pie of people that could use the rims.. as the backspace wouldn't be set in stone..
thats fine.. IF.. tire makers agree with you.. they do not. they are disco'n 16" tire sizes at an alarming rate.. .
Those with 15" tires will be even worse off.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
In looking for bigger wheels (for the sake of better tire choices and clearance for brakes), I found the Kyowa Mesh Zero, which is like the GT wheel, but 18" in diameter. The problem is that, in my opinion, the lace wheel design looks rather goofy at large diameters. For example, I've used MS Paint to enlarge the wheels on this car by 113% (the difference in diameter between 15" and 17" wheels):
A 16" wheel would be a good thing, in my opinion. Not large enough to look goofy, but a somewhat better choice of wheels, and the potential for using 12" rotors.
------------------ My project: 3800 Series III Supercharged + F40 6-speed into an 87 GT. Wish me luck!
I actually think the market (people) who would be looking to purchase stock looking wheels are the same market that would only want stock size wheels. Wanting things to be correct. Some people at shows spent $150 per wheel to refinish the 15 inch factory ones. Alot fo folks buy non stock wheels because of personal taste of the style of wheel. Also even if someone buys one that looks similar in style to the "lace pattern". I agree with others here, they get 17 inch or bigger due to lower profile performance tires. You've probably done market research, but thats my laymans take on it.
I do agree though if you are going to do this no matter what...the making of one wheel and then milling more off for the fronts of an 88 is best.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 06-20-2012).]
In my opinion (and it is my opinion) every time I go to a Fiero show I still think the best looking rim on a Fiero is the factory lace rim. So my intention is to supply a rim that is now 16" and looks very close to OEM and stock. I think 17" would be too large and the rubber tire would be too low profile. Now it looks aftermarket.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
In my opinion (and it is my opinion) every time I go to a Fiero show I still think the best looking rim on a Fiero is the factory lace rim. So my intention is to supply a rim that is now 16" and looks very close to OEM and stock. I think 17" would be too large and the rubber tire would be too low profile. Now it looks aftermarket.
I do understand that. I just wonder if the people who are into stock appearance, are also into "all stock" would change wheel size?
I do understand that. I just wonder if the people who are into stock appearance, are also into "all stock" would change wheel size?
I would. I like the stock wheels but I'm not opposed to improving them in a subtle way. Its like upgrading to the late-model Pontiac CD player - it looks stock because its two-tone gray with orange illumination. Sure I could go buy a fancy aftermarket headunit - or set of wheels - but that's not what I'm interested in.
I would. I like the stock wheels but I'm not opposed to improving them in a subtle way. Its like upgrading to the late-model Pontiac CD player - it looks stock because its two-tone gray with orange illumination. Sure I could go buy a fancy aftermarket headunit - or set of wheels - but that's not what I'm interested in.
I agree, if stock looking 16's had been available when I was getting new tires, I would have considered upgrading.
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
That's a pretty wheel. Looks just like the ones on the prototype.
Having said that... If you can't sell two different wheels/offsets, I would be inclined to just optimize them for the earlier cars. If you make one wheel that looks decent on the front of an 88, I think it's going to look "sucked in" on the rears, and on the earlier cars.
Sorry. Just my 2 cents. I'm not in the market anyway, since I run 17s.
One thing to point out.. how many of us still run stock non-vented rotors on the 84-87 cars? Keeping the early offset seems a waste. The rim in the pic does look good though.
I would love to see a larger OEM style rims. I would want them to have a bigger polished lip like the GTA 16" rims have. I think what would make it or break it would be cost, got any ballpark?
Originally posted by 85SEnochie: 16x7 Riken Mesh Wheels make a good looking wheel It would be nice to have that option I think
I did not know those existed... from googling it I don't think they are made any more, but if they were made in our bolt pattern/offset they would be awesome. I guess I will keep them in mind when searching for used wheels.
