I am told that t-tops is the second rarest option, right behind the indy. With numbers right around 3500 origionally made, and 1250 being CJB. My question is whose got them. Post a pic!!!
Sorry to impose, but could you tell me what CJB means?
Its the RPO code for T-Tops in 88. You could order "Factory" TTops in 88. when you selected "CJB" on the order form. (Factory meaning that GM sent the cars out to be modified with TTops, not done at GM)
Rob
[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 10-03-2009).]
Originally posted by ckrummy: My question is whose got them.
I have an black 88 GT CBJ T topped Fiero. All original, 98k miles, automatic. Someone was doing a T Top registry and I believe it is pretty well documented. Anyone have a link ?
Here is a link to my T-Top thread, '87 SE V6 5 spd. Getrag. very rare combination, it was fitted by the dealership prior to delivery, nearly factory. //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/074248.html
Many people forget that the T top was available since 1984. It was made a approved Dealer installed option. The dealer just did what GM did and send the cars out to a Approved Cars & Concepts installer to have the roof put on. If GM did not approve of it they would hace voided any warranties.
The dealers would then stick a second window sticker on with the added price of the tops. The parts are all the same just the gasket are a little different to make doing them on the line a one step deal vs two steps.
So there is a lot more T tops out there than just the 1988 cars.
The other thing many don't know or care to recall is that many of the cars prior to 1988 were done at Cars & Concepts just as the claimed factory cars. So other than the RPO code there is not reall that much that makes a pre 88 and 1988 car that much different.
I have been told by past owners of C & C that there may upto 8,000+ T top Fiero's built.
Fact is they are not hard to find if you really want one. Common no but not hard to find.
I like the look and stance of this car, I have been thinking about adding the same front combination with a wrap around spoiler, with lower rocker panel skirt, before painting.
So other than the RPO code there is not reall that much that makes a pre 88 and 1988 car that much different.
Gotta love the 'factory' cars though. Take the Y82 RPO off an an Indy Pace Car and you just have an 84SE with pretty seats and decals too. The RPO code does make a difference, especially at sale time. My experience has been that the little weatherstrip difference between a CJB and a non-CJB makes a difference in wind noise. Maybe it has just been on the cars that I have owned but the CJB cars I have owned seemed a lot tighter and quieter than the non-CJB I have now.
Gotta love the 'factory' cars though. Take the Y82 RPO off an an Indy Pace Car and you just have an 84SE with pretty seats and decals too. The RPO code does make a difference, especially at sale time. My experience has been that the little weatherstrip difference between a CJB and a non-CJB makes a difference in wind noise. Maybe it has just been on the cars that I have owned but the CJB cars I have owned seemed a lot tighter and quieter than the non-CJB I have now.
There made exactly the same by the same people if i remember right, Mine and jscotts are a little unique because we put them in ourselves. I'll admit my fitment is a little off, but its still a solid fit and feel.
Rob, How are you able to determine your car is #95 or may I ask how do I obtain that information for my Fiero? Thanks, Bill
Thats exactly what I was wondering also. I have seen people post what number CJB car they have and I wonder what # mine is. I have an 88GT CJB car. I will post up pictures one of these days when I get a few things repainted on it.
There made exactly the same by the same people if i remember right, Mine and jscotts are a little unique because we put them in ourselves. I'll admit my fitment is a little off, but its still a solid fit and feel.
All true... But that little extra flap of weatherstrip on the outside of the window, at least seems to, make a world of difference.
I like the look and stance of this car, I have been thinking about adding the same front combination with a wrap around spoiler, with lower rocker panel skirt, before painting. [/QUOTE]
It did have a wrap around spoiler and a Indy style roof scoop up until last week, when I took it off. -Jason
Gotta love the 'factory' cars though. Take the Y82 RPO off an an Indy Pace Car and you just have an 84SE with pretty seats and decals too. The RPO code does make a difference, especially at sale time. My experience has been that the little weatherstrip difference between a CJB and a non-CJB makes a difference in wind noise. Maybe it has just been on the cars that I have owned but the CJB cars I have owned seemed a lot tighter and quieter than the non-CJB I have now.
The differance of the T top and indy options are apples and oranges. The Indy cars were never sold for 7-8 years as a dealer installed option. The T tops were. Note the last factory kit was installed around the early 90's at C & C in MI a few years after the Fiero was done. I think the guy who owns it post here. It was done while he was at the Fiero Nationals were held in Pontiac.
My son has an 85 GT T-top and interestingly, it has CJB seals. One of the members in our club just bought an Enterra (rebody done in Vancouver Canada and sold as complete cars, 35 or so built). It has T-tops, but they look quite different then the C&C. The tops do not have glass and appear to be made of fiberglass. The center bar appears to be wider than C&C. The guy who bought the car was told that few Enterras had T-tops. Jim
This is already a hot topic, I had been thinking about suggesting a thread specific to T-Tops. I agree about the apples and oranges, I have original documentation for the '87 install, as this was the option available at the time my car was delivered. The RPO code is only signifigant if it is an '88.
Point is.... The RPO code is a valuable thing. Obviously no one is going to try to get any trade in value on a Fiero. But if you did, we all know the dealers go by what is 'factory' on the car - meaning that is has an RPO. Aftermarket accessories, even C&C installed T-tops, don't figure well into the value of the car. Since the Fiero is 20+ years old, then it will most likely be private sales only so you will do a little better. Personally, I will always give more for a CJB car than a non-CJB. And, as I mentioned, the CJB weatherstrip handles wind noise and water a little better than a non-CJB.
And, in the context that I was speaking of, the CJB/Y82 comparison is not apples and oranges. You guys are trying to make it about one car or the other being better. I am simply stating that the RPO code does make it different. Lots of people are putting their own T-tops in, just like lots of people are making fake Indys. The RPO code lets you know that it one of the 'factory' cars. How are you going to know a non-CJB was done at C&C since so many home built ones are coming out? You aren't. But if it has CJB, you know it was done by C&C.
[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 10-06-2009).]
The RPO Code is only important to someone who really cares. The average buyer who wants T tops could care less if it has a RPO or not when the sum of the parts are the same. Now if there was something really different, rare or in demand the RPO might make a differance but for most just 3 letters on a option fade or lost RPO sticker means little on a car worth $3,000.
Now if it was a numbers matching COPO Camaro with a Aluminum 427 that would make a difference.
Private installs are out there but in the big picture they are only a small number of all of the T tops made. The non 88 dealer installs were all done with paper work that is most often still with most of these cars. Also the early kits were done to the same or better standards than the 1988. In my case mine was done by the local C&C shop buy one C&C tech who spent two days doing the conversion. He did a hell of a good job as in 25 years I still have yet to ever get even a drip of water in the car.
As for the pace cars they are much harder to reproduct right since you can't buy the parts [Seats and interior trim] in good condition unless you trash a already good car. There is no profit in that so few people do that anyway. The money it would take to build a good fake would be more than what you could ever get out of it.
The bottom line is if were were talking Shelbys or Yenkos Copo cars the CJB would really make a differance. But with the value of the Fiero where it is and where it will remain for a good while there is little that would make most pay extra for 3 letters when all they wantis a Fiero with a T top.
If it make one feel better to pay extra more power to them.
The fact is there is strength in numbers and if we stopped worring about CJB or non CJB and combine the number of cars out there with the need for replacment parts someone may take it up. But if you just push the 1988 numbers they will laugh you off unless you want to pay big money. Even with all the kits combined it is a tough sell to get the gaskets made.
The more scary part is the broken glass. How many of us remove the top with a death grip. You drop a top you are hose unless you can find a used one that often will prove to be scratched. There are some NOS ones out there but they are rare and I figure they will soon be as valuable as the gaskets or more.
What will we do if we drop tops and have no glass to replace it. I suspect one could take some SMC and make a solid roof replacment to fit in?
Private installs are out there but in the big picture they are only a small number of all of the T tops made.
I gotta agree with Songman on this one... If I throw a rock in my yard I got a 50/50 chance of hitting a CJB t-top versus a home installed T-top. No matter how good my skills, I think the buyer would appreciate the CJB a little better.
And if I had a nickel for every person that told me they installed their own T-tops I would have at least one nickel.
The more scary part is the broken glass. How many of us remove the top with a death grip. You drop a top you are hose unless you can find a used one that often will prove to be scratched. There are some NOS ones out there but they are rare and I figure they will soon be as valuable as the gaskets or more.
What will we do if we drop tops and have no glass to replace it. I suspect one could take some SMC and make a solid roof replacment to fit in?
This I agree with 1000% I mentioned the death grip to another t-top owner and he knew exactly what I was talking about. Every t-top owner should have a spare set, (if they can afford it).
Jeff in Spokane
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I mentioned the death grip to another t-top owner and he knew exactly what I was talking about. Every t-top owner should have a spare set, (if they can afford it).
