I look at this from the other point of view...from your brother's side. Why? Well, I once had a drinking problem too. When I was in the military, I was going through a fifth of Jack Daniels a night. Some nights, I would start on the next night's fifth. What made me change? It was a woman. Gina came to me one day and said "I think you have a drinking problem." I responded with "I don't have a problem...what do I have to do to prove I don't have a drinking problem?" You all know her answer...stop drinking. "I can do that...how long to I have to stop for to prove I don't have a problem?" Again, you know her answer....permanently. Whoa...wait a minute. I was willing to make a point...but I LIKED drinking, it wasn't fair for her to take away one of my joys in life. She never said it, but I knew this conversation meant it was either her or Jack. I thought about it long and hard....and decided that Jack was a better friend than she was. He was more forgiving and more understanding. That meant that he would wait until I was done with her....but she wouldn't wait until I was done with him. First day was hard...but I decided that I could go without Jack tonight in order to enjoy her tonight...and then I would re-evaluate things tomorrow. Same thing the second night...and the third....and it got easier and easier. Yes...further down the line when we split up, Jack was right there waiting for me. But my time of sobriety made me realize that Gina was right...I DID have a drinking problem. Since then, I have had no issues with keeping my drinking under control. When I look back on my life...I consider Gina to be one of the best things to happen to me. I will be forever thankful to her for being the only person to step up at tell me "You have a problem."

Thanx for letting me tell my story. Now, lets look at your issue. In short, simple terms, intervention is the answer. But...it MUST be done when he is sober. If he is drunk, he will blow off anything you say or do to him. Catch him in the morning...preferably when he has a hangover (but if he is drinking that much, he probably never has one). But at least in the morning before he picks up a drink you will catch him at his MOST sober. This is not casual conversation...you need to set the mood for how serious you are. "You have a drinking problem"...those are key words. "You need to stop drinking" or "You are drinking too much" won't work. He will deny that it is a problem...and the "prove you don't have a problem by quitting for a month" can be very effective....if nothing else, it gives you more opportunity to talk to him about his problem when he is sober and more rational. Fortunately in this case, catching him sneaking a drink can be presented to him as proof that he DOES have a problem.

We share similar experiences there, Patoot...except with me I have REFUSED to become an abstainer, I have REFUSED to quit smokeing, and I have REFUSED to change my way of thinking/opinions/beliefs (convert to a belief system) for ANYONE !!

I am what I am. I smoke 1/2 to 1 pack a day. Friday or Saturday night, or working on a project, I ENJOY my dozen beer or couple glasses of bourbon (and dont really CARE if I get a bit drunk over them or not), and I think/ believe the things I do. I am what I am and I aint changing to suit ANYBODY....Yeh, I have cut back a LOT over my 20's but that has been MY choice, no-one elses. The nightly 6-pack has become a weekend dozen, the 3 packs a day at one time has become 1/2 most days...I staill aint joining no jesus cult or bowing to no allah or believing any universe is gonna give me a fararri.

Yeh, I've lost some women over the stance...but the ones who dont want to accept me as I am arent worth keeping anyway, IMHO.

I should add that I am the type of personality that wont be pushed over anything. Ya want to see a full-blown shooting war?---just try to pressure me into answering a phone or returning a call unless I feel like it. LOL, when I say "no" and somebody tries to argue, I flat out ask if they are deaf or stupid....that probably plays a factor

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 04-05-2013).]

As SGT Hulksa said "Lighten up Francis"

quote Originally posted by TXGOOD: As SGT Hulksa said "Lighten up Francis"

Hey, I dont back down, never forgive, and never forget....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o0V6VPX_E0

Boom chugaluga-boom-chuggagaluga-boom-chuggaglagu BOOM..........

LMAO !!!!!

really wonder how many of us learned to drink in the military.....beer, women, guns, fighting and a cause to believe in....THERE is a good thing to give to a hormone-raging teenager.....Mind ya...giving them flying machines with alcohol, guns and insane motors was probably just as bright.....


oohhh.....oooopppppsssssss......

Are you sure he has a drinking "problem"? ...and he's not just at that age where you act irresponsible, and enjoy partying? Most of us have gone through that to one degree or another. ...that being said, drinking and driving IMO is no joke... and alcoholic, or just a partier... either way, that part of it at least needs to be dealt with. The rest he'll likely figure out for himself with maturity. ....hopefully before he digs a hole (financially). If he's a legitmate "alcoholic", then that's a whole other animal. I hope it works out.

quote Originally posted by TXGOOD: As SGT Hulksa said "Lighten up Francis"

X2

Ok, I see some holes in what MEM is saying here. So, apparently its cool to sabotage/remove parts directly from the vehicle to disable it, but frak you Ben for keeping him from his keys? 0.o So, if you had too many drinks and were trying to drive, I could unbolt your starter but not take your keys? As you said, theft is theft - wether its takeing keys or vandelizeing/removing parts from his vehicle (and unairing his tires wont exactly stop him with how drunk he likes to get.) If he wanted to make a 'case' outta it (again on your xtreme scale) it would be hard for a person whos got 3 speeding tickets, a DUI and 2 totalled vehicles in a year n a half span to argue with me keeping him from driving drunk by keeping his keys from him. Hell, they'd prolly give me a medal and a handshake for something like that. I dont have any power/control issues - I just dont want to be going to his funeral knowing I couldve stopped him from making that mistake. In my life, Id be more pissed at the people around me if they DIDNT take my keys if I got as falling down drunk as he does and then tries to drive. But, as you said, theres no point in trying to talk to you, cause its always your way as being the right way - right?

A R
Thats what I thought the 1st few months, but it just kept getting worse and worse. Granted, I never felt the need to drink/party/be that age cause at that point in my life I was working 2 jobs, supporting me and my fiancee, paying rent and trying to go to school. So, spending money on alcohol was a total waste and I had zero time for it. Maybe you and others are right - he has to slam into rock bottom before he realizes that he has a problem. Just worried that the impact may take his life....

quote Originally posted by CowsPatoot: I look at this from the other point of view...from your brother's side. Why? Well, I once had a drinking problem too. When I was in the military, I was going through a fifth of Jack Daniels a night. Some nights, I would start on the next night's fifth. What made me change? It was a woman. Gina came to me one day and said "I think you have a drinking problem." I responded with "I don't have a problem...what do I have to do to prove I don't have a drinking problem?" You all know her answer...stop drinking. "I can do that...how long to I have to stop for to prove I don't have a problem?" Again, you know her answer....permanently. Whoa...wait a minute. I was willing to make a point...but I LIKED drinking, it wasn't fair for her to take away one of my joys in life. She never said it, but I knew this conversation meant it was either her or Jack. I thought about it long and hard....and decided that Jack was a better friend than she was. He was more forgiving and more understanding. That meant that he would wait until I was done with her....but she wouldn't wait until I was done with him. First day was hard...but I decided that I could go without Jack tonight in order to enjoy her tonight...and then I would re-evaluate things tomorrow. Same thing the second night...and the third....and it got easier and easier. Yes...further down the line when we split up, Jack was right there waiting for me. But my time of sobriety made me realize that Gina was right...I DID have a drinking problem. Since then, I have had no issues with keeping my drinking under control. When I look back on my life...I consider Gina to be one of the best things to happen to me. I will be forever thankful to her for being the only person to step up at tell me "You have a problem." Thanx for letting me tell my story. Now, lets look at your issue. In short, simple terms, intervention is the answer. But...it MUST be done when he is sober. If he is drunk, he will blow off anything you say or do to him. Catch him in the morning...preferably when he has a hangover (but if he is drinking that much, he probably never has one). But at least in the morning before he picks up a drink you will catch him at his MOST sober. This is not casual conversation...you need to set the mood for how serious you are. "You have a drinking problem"...those are key words. "You need to stop drinking" or "You are drinking too much" won't work. He will deny that it is a problem...and the "prove you don't have a problem by quitting for a month" can be very effective....if nothing else, it gives you more opportunity to talk to him about his problem when he is sober and more rational. Fortunately in this case, catching him sneaking a drink can be presented to him as proof that he DOES have a problem.

You aren't (or weren't) a real alcoholic. I had a very similar situation when I was in the military except my drink of choice was rum and Coke. I won't go into the details, but I found myself one evening saying some things out loud to myself that scared the living **** out of me when I replayed them in my head the next day. I decided at that point I wasn't going to walk down that path and started making different choices. I wasn't technically an alcoholic either. *True* alcoholics can't moderate their drinking, they just can't, that's what makes them alcoholics.
Now, with all that said, is the OP's brother an alky? No way of knowing. But the one common element between your story and mine is that our decision to moderate our drinking were conscious choices that you and I made of our own accord, not because anyone told us we should, or because we were afraid of losing someone or some thing. If his brother isn't an alky, then he might one day come to that conclusion on his own, but nothing the OP says or does will compel him to do anything.
I stand by my original statement. He should just back off and let the brother crash and burn hard, and then let him pick himself back up and take control of his own life. Interventions don't really work. I've been party to enough of them to know that, it isn't like on TV.

[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 04-05-2013).]

quote Originally posted by HoMiE_TeLeFrAgGeD: X2 Ok, I see some holes in what MEM is saying here. So, apparently its cool to sabotage/remove parts directly from the vehicle to disable it, but frak you Ben for keeping him from his keys? 0.o

Thats about it man...and believe me, IF <and I dont> I was gonna get behind the wheel in that state and the truck wont start or has a flat, I would never know why and be greatful in the morning...If ya take my house, locker, toolbox and every other key on that ring--I am gonna be one PIZZED OFF sob....

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: Thats about it man...and believe me, IF <and I dont> I was gonna get behind the wheel in that state and the truck wont start or has a flat, I would never know why and be greatful in the morning...If ya take my house, locker, toolbox and every other key on that ring--I am gonna be one PIZZED OFF sob....

So... it goes from "WTF did you do with my keys?!" to "WTF did you do to my car?!" Either way seems like not a good idea at this point...

::UPDATE::
Brother came home last night hammered and when my dad tried to call him out on it, he took a puckshot at my dad. He was on the ground in no time flat. My dad told him if he ever caught him drunk around him again hes gonna end back up on the ground again. My dad let him up, and my brother stormed off into the kitchen for more beer. Apparently my mom went in to baby him (as she always has) and he told her to frak off. She slapped him in the face, and he jumped on her and apparently started strangleing her. I had my new GF over, and she was freakin out bad. I left my room at this point to break it all up. My dad and I jumped in and pulled him off of her and my dad knocked him out cold. He woke up this morning and apparently apologized to my mother and dad (I was already at work) and told them that he cant be apart of the family anymore and that he's going to be moving in with friends. So....yeah.... my springer family moment last night... >_>

[This message has been edited by HoMiE_TeLeFrAgGeD (edited 04-06-2013).]

quote Originally posted by HoMiE_TeLeFrAgGeD: So... it goes from "WTF did you do with my keys?!" to "WTF did you do to my car?!" Either way seems like not a good idea at this point... ::UPDATE:: Brother came home last night hammered and when my dad tried to call him out on it, he took a puckshot at my dad. He was on the ground in no time flat. My dad told him if he ever caught him drunk around him again hes gonna end back up on the ground again. My dad let him up, and my brother stormed off into the kitchen for more beer. Apparently my mom went in to baby him (as she always has) and he told her to frak off. She slapped him in the face, and he jumped on her and apparently started strangleing her. I had my new GF over, and she was freakin out bad. I left my room at this point to break it all up. My dad and I jumped in and pulled him off of her and my dad knocked him out cold. He woke up this morning and apparently apologized to my mother and dad (I was already at work) and told them that he cant be apart of the family anymore and that he's going to be moving in with friends. So....yeah.... my springer family moment last night... >_>

I'm really disappointed that your dad didn't tell him to GTFO, or at least press charges, and let him spend the night in jail.
Would have carried a lot more weight than him leaving of his own free will.

Let's hope it's the turning point.
If not, I give it no more than a couple weeks at his friends.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 04-06-2013).]

quote Originally posted by HoMiE_TeLeFrAgGeD: So... it goes from "WTF did you do with my keys?!" to "WTF did you do to my car?!" Either way seems like not a good idea at this point... ::UPDATE:: Brother came home last night hammered and when my dad tried to call him out on it, he took a puckshot at my dad. He was on the ground in no time flat. My dad told him if he ever caught him drunk around him again hes gonna end back up on the ground again. My dad let him up, and my brother stormed off into the kitchen for more beer. Apparently my mom went in to baby him (as she always has) and he told her to frak off. She slapped him in the face, and he jumped on her and apparently started strangleing her. I had my new GF over, and she was freakin out bad. I left my room at this point to break it all up. My dad and I jumped in and pulled him off of her and my dad knocked him out cold. He woke up this morning and apparently apologized to my mother and dad (I was already at work) and told them that he cant be apart of the family anymore and that he's going to be moving in with friends. So....yeah.... my springer family moment last night... >_>

Like I 1st said, man...something his mind cant handle--maybe family--and he tries to drink the pain away.....Believe me, been there, done that !!!.....and honestly, if I ever even HEAR about a customer or a slush machine after hours again, there WILL BE bloodshed...that was my trigger. They thought they owned me 24/7/365 and wouldnt take "no" for an answer or just go away on my personal time and it damn near destroyed me....I found the answer in no longer having knowledge or skills around those machines and the entire human species can go frack themselves. I am not for hire around those, do not bother me with them, and I'll knock ya out for even suggesting it. GO AWAY. I dont give a frack what they want, thier wants do NOT make me and my skills a slave to them......Your bro might need to find his own answers, and it might turn out those answers ARE family....and ya know, some guys never find them...its only the lucky ones that do. I am greatful for finding mine.

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 04-06-2013).]

My two cents....

My parents and some friends have said that I may have a drinking problem, but no matter how much I drink I keep my money saved for what I need it for. Your brother has a problem if he can't get his priorities straight.

I'm 22 and I drink a lot, but it only makes me laugh when people try to tell me I have a problem with it. I'm a college kid--of course I drink a lot. So if you approach your brother, don't make it about him needing to be sober. Make it about him needing to have money to pay the bills. That's a lot less infuriating than telling someone you think they have a serious problem.

Your brother may have a problem. It sounds like he does to me. But at that age you can't just walk up and say "Hey buddy I think you have a problem with drinking." They will resent it. Been there, felt that.

Good luck with your brother. I hope he gets some sense into him. Don't treat him like an alcoholic though. At this point he's just dumb with money.... who knows if he's actually addicted or not.

My brother is at that age where he is a party animal. We just had a falling out last week, unfortunatley, I had to turn my back on him. He is walking the same path I did at that age, I hoped to offer the guidance I needed (at that age) but he decided(with some coaching from idiot family members) that I didnt support him and his goals, blah blah blah. Funny how it was twisted around on me while dodging the real point. Sometimes people, even close family, have to learn for themselves. It hurts to watch them throw away so much. Now im not saying its the best way, some people need serious intervention before they kill someone while on their destructive path.

Well, your update tells me too much. I had a mean drunk neighbor, my rule was "if I suspect you have alcohol in you, I will throw you out". My guess, not the first time he has been a mean drunk and should have been kicked out the first time he had a first drink after the DUI. Starting to sound like the family is part of the problem. It sucks but, you may have to sacrifice yourself and become Mr. Square and be an example. It is kind of why I am "clean", as an example.

With the update..

An angry dangerous drunk changes things in my opinion. If it were me and he did this and still didnt see the light and decide to get help, (with families help) I think he should get couseling / rehab anyway. Stay safe and keep the caring attitude you have.