Don't believe I said they were worthless, its about as effective as a cell phone in the pocket to call 911. As far as noise, screaming might cause them to run away too. I wouldn't bet my life on it. As for the bill, maybe if its open and shut, we should just let the criminals bleed out then?
Alarms are nothing more than an early warning system. I agree, not worthless, but not a 'protector' either. Screaming might even tell the crook 'hey, we got some girls in here'.
Oh, and for the record i don't blame the cops for not beaming in instantly when there is trouble. It is not their responsibility to protect the individual, and they cant be everywhere at once even if it was.
The guy they are treating If he doesn't make it then go after his assets. He put himself at risk by doing something stupid. Pay me a visit in the middle of the night and it will end in a similar fashion.
I hope that he gets well and makes a full recovery and gives the family an opportunity to sue his ass.
As for "those" on the hook for the bill we all know that the criminal nor his family isn't going to foot the bill-it's the tax payers. So, the surgeon(s), the RN(s), the anesthesiologist(s), the surgical tech(s), and paramedics all did a job for free at the tune of $500,000 and counting.
Perhaps we should stop treating people when they do stupid things and cant afford the consequences. Regardless the family has no responsibility in this and if anything should be compensated for the event.
The guy they are treating If he doesn't make it then go after his assets. He put himself at risk by doing something stupid. Pay me a visit in the middle of the night and it will end in a similar fashion.
I hope that he gets well and makes a full recovery and gives the family an opportunity to sue his ass.
Dont forget spend the rest of his life in prison. Its too bad we cant make the prisoners earn their keep anymore. But thats not considered 'humane'... phfft
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03:58 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
ObamaCare will pay for it. That's what you voted for. That's what you got.
Hello, what year is this? When does that start again.
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:
Alarms aren't a deterrent because they know they're going to be gone before the police get there. Unless the police just happen to be right there, it's pretty unlikely it would have made any difference.
Once again, so alarms are no good for homes or businesses, huh?.
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04:06 PM
fierofool Member
Posts: 12823 From: Auburn, Georgia USA Registered: Jan 2002
The suspect was taken to Gwinnett Medical Center, which isn't a regional trauma center. That means that the taxpayer doesn't pick up the cost, except through the Police agency that has custody of him.
Loganville, Ga. straddles Walton and Gwinnett Counties and I'm not sure which county the homeowner lives in and if it's in Loganville proper or unincorporated Loganville. Gwinnett County police and Loganville City police have a strong presence throughout Gwinnett County and the City of Loganville, respectively. Response would have been relatively quick as compared to Walton County which only has a Sheriff's Department that is headquartered about 15 miles away. In either case, it may have been too late for the homeowner and her children.
There was a report that there was a second hand gun in the house that the woman couldn't get to. The authorities were unsure as of last night on the 11PM news (WSB-TV) whether the intruder had found that weapon.
He apparently had more on his mind than just robbery/burglary since he found the woman and her children hiding in an attic crawl space. He was definitely searching for people.
As for home alarm systems and the noises they make and their effectiveness---my siren was never installed. In 27 years, I've seen 2 instances in my neighborhood where they were totally ignored. I don't want an alarm yelping to tell them to hurry up before the Police get here. I want them to take their time and still be here when the Police arrive. That is if I haven't followed suit of the Lady from Loganville.
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04:15 PM
blackrams Member
Posts: 31843 From: Hattiesburg, MS, USA Registered: Feb 2003
OK, thanks. Now I understand. I'm not 100% in agreement but, I appreciate the insight.
------------------ Ron A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. So, what do ya think, are we there yet?
Originally posted by madcurl: Who is footing the bill for this? The hospital is going to be on the hook for at least 300k to half a million. The husband could've gotten alarm system for the house. My 98 yr old granma has one and several .38 too.
I thought everyone was supposed to have health insurance. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Originally posted by blackrams: ....Personally, I think she needs a little more marksmanship training. I mean really, five shots and he's still breathing.
...with four exit wounds, there was some velocity behind those rounds.
OK. I know I'm wasting my time trying to inject a dose of reality into the gun cult echo chamber, but reality exists no matter how tightly you attempt to circle your wagons and ignore it. Public opinion has reached a tipping point, and the unfettered brandishing of lethal weapons by every Tom Dick and Dirty Harry wannabe will not be tolerated for much longer. (You didn't hear it here first, you just heard it here again.) For every woman who was able to get lucky and thwart her attacker, there are dozens of cases like these, from just this week in Central Florida:
quote
KISSIMMEE, Fla. —A woman and her 9-year-old son were shot while they were sitting in a parked car outside of a daycare in Kissimmee early Saturday, police said.
The 32-year-old victim and her son were awaiting the opening of the Tiny Tots Child Care Center at Smith and East Cypress streets when someone fired gunshots, hitting the mother and child in the legs about 7 a.m. Saturday.
Both victims were taken to a nearby hospital with injuries that were not considered to be life-threatening.
OCALA, Fla. —Deputies said they are looking into a murder-suicide attempt in the Ocala area.
4836 NW 45th Court, OcalaThe Marion County Sheriff's Office launched the investigation Friday morning after several people saw a Facebook post about a woman threatening to kill herself and her 6-month-old child.
Authorities said when they went to the home they found 20-year-old Melanie Reyes and her child, Jonah Mendoza, shot in a back room of a home on Northwest 45th Court.
"It is their understanding that the baby's father and grandmother both saw this posting on Facebook and so one or both of them called and that Read more: http://www.wesh.com/news/ce...x.html#ixzz2HA91SRNd
Just in one small part of one of the most heavily armed states in the USA.
A point to ponder: When something isn't right in modern society, the root can usually be found by following the money. Guns are expensive, and very profitable to manufacture and sell. Problem is, most guns are very well made, and well maintained by their owners., so they don't wear out and require replacing. (Kind of like certain classic cars) So, how can you keep selling a product that doesn't wear out? Create a need, by stoking fear, for the items? Create fear that the item wil no longer be availaible? Create an us vs them mentality among the enthusiasts?
Seems to be working pretty well so far in the USA.....
Clearly, in neptune's utopia, Mrs. Herman would have had the moral superiority had she been unarmed and she and her children murdered by Slater. Keep the faith and maybe your dream will come true.
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11:01 PM
fierofool Member
Posts: 12823 From: Auburn, Georgia USA Registered: Jan 2002
I just saw where Mrs. Herman lived and it was in the Unincorporated Walton County area of Loganville. Unless there was a deputy in the area, the closest help was probably 15 minutes away or she could have called for an unarmed neighbor to come over to shoo the guy away. Slater used a crowbar to break into the house and unless he found the other weapon, that was likely what he had in his hand. A very deadly weapon. Crowbars should be banned unless they are less than 3 inches long.
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11:28 PM
Jan 6th, 2013
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
Neptune you have it pretty much right. The GUN NUTS ( I will use that because apparently those apposed to the slaughter currently going on in the USA are anti-gun nuts" ignore the facts and figures that prove an armed society is a bloody unsafe one. Stats do not lie in this case. America is ****1ng dangerous because of all the guns. The rates of gun deaths, and all murder related deaths is bloody ridiculous compared to the rest of the civilised western world.
Sick of seeing justifications like I need to carry to protect myself. Well sorry, that tells me you live in a fooked up society that has tipped over the edge. If you need to carry a gun to survive you are living in anarchy.
The SHORTEST 12-gauge pump shotgun available. The baddest entry/breeching gun on earth. REGISTERED AS SBS''S
The SUPER-SHORTY is based on a Remington 870 12-gauge shotgun which came from the factory with a pistol grip. Because of this, the SUPER-SHORTY is considered an AOW (Any Other Weapon) and can be transferred with a $5 stamp! The gun holds two 2-3/4" or 3" shells in the magazine, plus one in the chamber. The 16.5" overall length, 6.5" barrel and spring-locked foregrip, which pivots out of the way when not in use, make for a very compact package.
Holding only 3 shots is not great but if you are behind a door and someone pulls it open to kill you then it would be a very efficient defender. 12 gauge 3" shells of 00 buckshot would stop anyone trying to do you harm.
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06:11 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 35994 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
AusFiero, in every state where gun laws are highly favorable to legally licensed owners, the crime rates are lower. Washington, DC, the home of most of the anti-gun laws is the heaviest armed area of the United States but yet has the lowest violent gun related crime rate in all of America. By and large, gun crimes are carried out by persons who do not have a gun license and cannot get one due to previous criminal history. The crimes are carried out against those who are not armed, either because they don't want to carry a firearm, or because their local highly restricts the possession of a firearm or how it's carried.
Traveling from the southeastern US to the northeastern US, there are different laws as to how my firearm can be carried. One state requires my gun to be disassembled. One requires at a minimum that the weapon be either inside the vehicle with the ammunition in the trunk, or vise-verse, while another requires that there be no ammunition in the clip for a semi-automatic and the clip and weapon be in separate locked areas of the vehicle. Still there is one state that doesn't allow me to drive through it with a weapon, other than a hunting weapon, even though I'm licensed. One of the northeastern states I used to live in allowed me to carry a hand gun only to a recognized shooting event or while traveling to and from a target range. Do you think criminals observed that restriction? No. But legal gun owners likely did.
Now, with a criminal hanging around the gasoline service centers along the interstates, my out of state license plate could make me a pretty appealing target in some areas since obviously traveling, the gun, if any is required to be dismembered, and I probably have money on me to cover my travel expenses.
I know!. We should pass a law that says criminals must give us law abiding citizens time to unlock our trunk, assemble our weapon, load the ammo into the clip and holster the weapon before they make a move on us. But if we did that, we'd still have the problem of the taxpayer having to foot the bill on some idiot that managed to get 5 .38 slugs transplanted into his torso, so I guess that wouldn't work, either.
Now, you have gun laws in Australia that essentially prohibit private ownership by legally licensed individuals, Right? Did it stop the criminals from having guns?
Sick of seeing justifications like I need to carry to protect myself.
Well, you are more than welcome to stop reading and interjecting stupidity in a discussion about America, which you have no understanding about and are not welcome in. Don t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.
( actually, i had more to say, but im not going to bring it down a level. )
[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 01-06-2013).]
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09:08 AM
fierofool Member
Posts: 12823 From: Auburn, Georgia USA Registered: Jan 2002
Search Home > Crime > Statistics > Australian Guns CATEGORIES: Crime
Australian Guns Claim: Statistics demonstrate that crime rates in Australia have increased substantially since the government there instituted a gun buy-back program in 1997. From: Ed Chenel, a police officer in Australia.
Hi Yanks,
I thought you all would like to see the real figures from Down Under.
It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent, Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent; Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!). In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!)
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in "successfully ridding Australian society of guns."
You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear your governor or members of the state Assembly disseminating this information.
The Australian experience proves it. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Neptune you have it pretty much right. The GUN NUTS ( I will use that because apparently those apposed to the slaughter currently going on in the USA are anti-gun nuts" ignore the facts and figures that prove an armed society is a bloody unsafe one. Stats do not lie in this case. America is ****1ng dangerous because of all the guns. The rates of gun deaths, and all murder related deaths is bloody ridiculous compared to the rest of the civilised western world.
Sick of seeing justifications like I need to carry to protect myself. Well sorry, that tells me you live in a fooked up society that has tipped over the edge. If you need to carry a gun to survive you are living in anarchy.
Just curious as to what part of this is hard to understand, it's a news story. Not a caricature, hypothetical situation, impossible scenario or the likes. It's a situation where the good guy (woman) prevailed because of a firearm, one banned from many countries. She had a firearm and used it on a predator to defend herself. It's not a justification, its called reality. In your crimeless, victimless country it might be hard to understand that guns are not just in the hands of the bad guys but this stuff actually happens regularly in all countries, yours included. I don't need any firearm to make myself feel safe, I don't need a tool box in my car to make it feel reliable either, I don't need jumper cables in my car to be sure my car will start, but I have all these things in case. I'll bet even you own quite a few things you don't "need" that others don't feel that they need. So what everyone lives in their own shoes not someone elses.
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05:54 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Neptune you have it pretty much right. The GUN NUTS ( I will use that because apparently those apposed to the slaughter currently going on in the USA are anti-gun nuts" ignore the facts and figures that prove an armed society is a bloody unsafe one. Stats do not lie in this case. America is ****1ng dangerous because of all the guns. The rates of gun deaths, and all murder related deaths is bloody ridiculous compared to the rest of the civilised western world.
Sick of seeing justifications like I need to carry to protect myself. Well sorry, that tells me you live in a fooked up society that has tipped over the edge. If you need to carry a gun to survive you are living in anarchy.
First you say " America is ****1ng dangerous " and then complain about "justifications" of needing to protect yourself. Maybe our society has tipped over the edge. You said yourself it's dangerous. I assume you were giving your honest opinion, so why then if America is so " ****1ng dangerous" is it so hard to believe someone might want to have the ability to defend themselves or their family?
Maybe this is the exception, but this is news - not a political commentary. It happened. In this case she needed a firearm to defend herself and her children. Would you have preferred she was unarmed and she and her kids took whatever the perpetrator decided to do to them? I'm serious. What would you have preferred happen? Yeah, it would be nice if the guy didn't break into the house and go looking for people, but he did.
What's your advice to her had she been unarmed? "Bad luck, mate."? How would you want your wife to react in a similar situation? I know - it never happens in Australia, but it did happen in Loganville GA.
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08:31 PM
fierofool Member
Posts: 12823 From: Auburn, Georgia USA Registered: Jan 2002
I used to play the golf course just down the road from where this happened. It's a rural area so to speak, about 3 miles from the downtown business district of Loganville, which has only 1 Three Block Long street in the central business district. There are scattered subdivisions consisting of homes on a minimum of 5/8 acres. Not an area where one would expect high crime and a strong need to carry a weapon. I have a friend that lives in a similar environment in Loganville, not far away, maybe a mile and a half. Same residential setting where kids play in their yards, people jog and walk their dogs, even after dark.
This individual (Slater) chose to come from an area far removed from where he lived, probably with the belief that there would be no need for anyone in that low crime area to have a firearm. Maybe Mrs. Herman's neighbors didn't, but lucky for her and her children, she did. Otherwise, maybe the next day or week, he might have had another victim in his sights.
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08:58 PM
blackrams Member
Posts: 31843 From: Hattiesburg, MS, USA Registered: Feb 2003
OK. I know I'm wasting my time trying to inject a dose of reality into the gun cult echo chamber, but reality exists no matter how tightly you attempt to circle your wagons and ignore it. Public opinion has reached a tipping point, and the unfettered brandishing of lethal weapons by every Tom Dick and Dirty Harry wannabe will not be tolerated for much longer. (You didn't hear it here first, you just heard it here again.) For every woman who was able to get lucky and thwart her attacker, there are dozens of cases like these, from just this week in Central Florida:
Just in one small part of one of the most heavily armed states in the USA.
A point to ponder: When something isn't right in modern society, the root can usually be found by following the money. Guns are expensive, and very profitable to manufacture and sell. Problem is, most guns are very well made, and well maintained by their owners., so they don't wear out and require replacing. (Kind of like certain classic cars) So, how can you keep selling a product that doesn't wear out? Create a need, by stoking fear, for the items? Create fear that the item wil no longer be availaible? Create an us vs them mentality among the enthusiasts?
Seems to be working pretty well so far in the USA.....
I'm not going to bash you but, based on your obvious concern for innocent folks who are victims, why aren't you calling for the banning of liquor sales. A significantly larger number of innocent folks are injured, maimed and killed by alcohol related situations and health issues every day, way more than gun ralated injuries and deaths. Where's the outrage for that?
Hmm, another hot button issue maybe?
------------------ Ron A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. So, what do ya think, are we there yet?
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-06-2013).]
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09:08 PM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by madcurl: Who is footing the bill for this? The hospital is going to be on the hook for at least 300k to half a million.
I have to admit that I agree with you on this one, kick him out in the street before he costs to much. I would be humane about it and give his "family" a call first and tell them which alley he is going to be dumped in, that way he does not have to suffer any humiliation like a homeless man or something embarrassing like that. I agree with you again that we should have a "max cost" the treatment of violent offenders.
This is what you were suggesting,...right?
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 01-06-2013).]
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09:29 PM
NEPTUNE Member
Posts: 10199 From: Ticlaw FL, and some other places. Registered: Aug 2001
Its easy to buy a gun in Florida. It has been reported by legitimate news sources that only about 40% of buyers have to submit to a background check. There are gun stores and shooting ranges everywhere. Gun shows are packed with the paranoid who have cash in hand. CCW tickets are easier to get than a drivers license. (And THATS easy here too.) So why don't we live in a safe place where the crazies fear the Rambo wannabes who live in (seemingly) every neighborhood?
I certainly don't have the answer. But I'm pretty sure it isn't "MORE GUNS!!!!!" "MORE GUNS ALL THE TIME!!!" "MORE GUNS WILL FIX EVERYTHING!"
quote
PALM BAY, Fla. —
Palm Bay police said a 29-year-old man fatally shot his mother before taking his own life early Saturday morning.
The incident happened at a home on Certosa Street NE around 1:00 a.m.
Investigators said Keith Jay, 29, shot and killed his mother in her bedroom after arguing with and beating his pregnant girlfriend. Jay then fatally shot himself in the front yard of the home, according to police.
At least this latest POS had the decency to shoot himself. Too bad he didn't do it BEFORE the tough guy gunned down his own mother.
In related news, Orlandos gun show was packed with buyers this weekend, Some of whom had to submit to a background check before purchasing lethal weapons..... And some who didn't.
you can call gun guys all the names you want but this is america WE HAVE A RIGHT TO DO SO GUESS WHAT WE ARE TOTALLY LEGAL TO BUY GUNS PERIOD ! if dont want to use that right good dont , but you are not going to make me chose the same as you ! I FIND IT FUNNY HOW YOU SAY THE CHANGE IS COMING I LIVE IN IL ONE OF THE WORST PLACE TO OWNS GUNS , THEY HAVE TRIED 5 DIFFERNT BILLS IN THE LAST WEEK . 2 WHERE THE NORMAL TRICKLY STUFF CHANGE A BILL AT MIDNIGHT 1 DAY BEFORE YOU VOTE ON IT . GUESS WHAT THEY ALL WHERE PULLED FOR LACK OF SUPPORT . GUN OWNERS ARE GOING TO STAND AND FIGHT WE WERE NOT THERE AND YOU CAN NOT PUNISH US FOR THE ACTIONS OF A CRAZY KILLER
you can call gun guys all the names you want but this is america WE HAVE A RIGHT TO DO SO GUESS WHAT WE ARE TOTALLY LEGAL TO BUY GUNS PERIOD ! if dont want to use that right good dont , but you are not going to make me chose the same as you ! I FIND IT FUNNY HOW YOU SAY THE CHANGE IS COMING I LIVE IN IL ONE OF THE WORST PLACE TO OWNS GUNS , THEY HAVE TRIED 5 DIFFERNT BILLS IN THE LAST WEEK . 2 WHERE THE NORMAL TRICKLY STUFF CHANGE A BILL AT MIDNIGHT 1 DAY BEFORE YOU VOTE ON IT . GUESS WHAT THEY ALL WHERE PULLED FOR LACK OF SUPPORT . GUN OWNERS ARE GOING TO STAND AND FIGHT WE WERE NOT THERE AND YOU CAN NOT PUNISH US FOR THE ACTIONS OF A CRAZY KILLER
Borrowed from avengador1 from another thread but, it's still applicable.
Where's your outrage on these killers? Hmm
I'm guessing here but, I'm think'n your feeing threatened because other's have the right to defend themselves?
I'm really not trying to bait you, I doubt you'd take it anyway but, where's the outrage at all those other issues. A whole lt more more folks are injured and killed by these events/actions. Again, this appears to just another hot button. If we're going by the numbers, automobiles should be on your hit list. How do you feel about meth labs? Got an issue there?
------------------ Ron A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. So, what do ya think, are we there yet?
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-07-2013).]
