quote LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - More than 48,000 people have signed a petition that they posted on the White House website demanding that British CNN talk show host Piers Morgan be deported over comments he made on air about gun control. Morgan last week lambasted pro-gun guests on his show, after the December 14 mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, where a gunman shot dead 26 people, including 20 children. "We demand that Mr. Morgan be deported immediately for his effort to undermine the Bill of Rights and for exploiting his position as a national network television host to stage attacks against the rights of American citizens," the petition said. The petition, started on December 21 by a man identified as Kurt N. from Austin, Texas, accuses Morgan of subverting the second amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees the right to bear arms. U.S. citizens can file a petition on the White House website, whitehouse.gov, if they collect at least 25,000 signatures within 30 days. The White House is then obliged to issue a response. Morgan, 47, a former newspaper editor in London, shot back at his critics on Twitter. He repeated his past calls for the United States to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines and conduct background checks on all gun purchases. Five days after the Connecticut massacre, Morgan called a guest, Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners for America, an "idiot," "dangerous" and an "unbelievably stupid man" when Pratt argued that more guns were needed to combat crime in the United States.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/...?lite&lite=obnetwork

Well that's fairly typical and unsurprising.

This is one of those 'gray' areas, where a non-national comes here, then bashes our framework but wants to stay around and benefit from it.. Do the have the right to do this? I donno as i have mixed feelings about it. I know i would not go visit England ( for example ), complain about their way of life and expect to be treated well afterwards.

Legally, he doesn't have the same rights as we do, as hes not an American. He is a visitor.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: This is one of those 'gray' areas, where a non-national comes here, then bashes our framework but wants to stay around and benefit from it.. Do the have the right to do this?. Legally, he doesn't have the same rights as we do, as hes not an American. He is a visitor.

In my opinion every man, women, & child has a god-given right to speak up when they see something wrong with the world.
And it has nothing to do with where they live or where they come from.
It is only an opinion.
Why would some find so importent to silence it?

I mean, personal responsability, right?
If THEY don't want to hear it, they can just plug THEIR OWN ears, right?
Why do they find it nessisary to stop EVERYONE from hearing it?

I fear those that would silence it more then those that would speak it.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: In my opinion every man, women, & child has a god-given right to speak up when they see something wrong with the world.

I don't have a problem with people speaking, but if they come to MY house and ***** ..... They should do it at their own house ( so to speak )

quote Originally posted by User00013170: I don't have a problem with people speaking, but if they come to MY house and ***** ..... They should do it at their own house ( so to speak )

Ummm, were they invited into YOUR house?

Eh, forget it.
I get what you are saying.......it's that same old tired phrase always used to shut up those we don't want to hear from.
"America, Love It Or Leave It!"

That ALWAYS trumps those core rights we brag on so vocally to the rest of the world.

I am with Nurb. Even if you were to be invited into my home, you better believe the reaction would be the same if you wanted to talk shat to me at my dinner table. RESPECT. I can take a lot more outside of my home, than I could ever take inside.

Listen, this exact scenario has played out many a time in my life. And each time the person was escorted off the property. You may not like the results of calling me out in my home. Seriously.

Just a scenario... Boonie, you invite me for dinner. I tell you that your Wife's cooking sucks, and it should be done my way. I tell you that I do not like the way that you mow your lawn, and describe how your dog stinks. Your feelings?...

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Ummm, were they invited into YOUR house? .

Um, he is a guest in this country, so yes.

quote That ALWAYS trumps those core rights we brag on so vocally to the rest of the world.

And i would expect the same treatment if i was visiting and then decided to denigrate my host. I would fully expect to be escorted out. Like MJ loves to point out, exercising your rights does have consequences.

And notice i never said he cant *say* it. just that i feel he should be sent back home. Didn't say jail him, or kill him, just ask that he go back home.

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 12-29-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: I am with Nurb. Even if you were to be invited into my home, you better believe the reaction would be the same if you wanted to talk shat to me at my dinner table. RESPECT. I can take a lot more outside of my home, than I could ever take inside. Listen, this exact scenario has played out many a time in my life. And each time the person was escorted off the property. You may not like the results of calling me out in my home. Seriously. Just a scenario... Boonie, you invite me for dinner. I tell you that your Wife's cooking sucks, and it should be done my way. I tell you that I do not like the way that you mow your lawn, and describe how your dog stinks. Your feelings?...

You guys are either being silly, or just contrary.
This is not about your house.
The comparison is moot.

If you are talking about America being your house, then it would seem from what I see you have VERY little to say about the rules of, and what goes on in, your house.
Even when it comes to something as simple as who actually runs "your house".
See how the comparison don't work.

The best your arguement could be is OUR house.
And even then it's thin, at best.

But hey, I support free speech, weather I want to hear it or not.
I just turn away if I didn't want to hear it.

That church that flaps it's gums at funerals?
I hate what they do.
And that funeral IS NOT their "house".
But they got the right by law to speak their mind.
For now.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: You guys are either being silly, or just contrary. This is not about your house. The comparison is moot.

I am being neither, and am totally serious. ( as 50k + other people are .. ) I honestly do see a direct comparison between my "physical house" and my country. True, i don't 'rule' and cant make the decisions, but i do have a voice in those decisions.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: ....

Swing and a miss there Boonie. Sorry, but yes, this is OUR house. Do not disrespect US in OUR house. Common frickin' sense mang!

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: But hey, I support free speech, weather I want to hear it or not. I just turn away if I didn't want to hear it.

To be honest, I tend to agree with Boonie on this.

I tend to shut off those I think are full of themselves or have basic disagreements with. It's not that I don't listen but once I realized that we're not going to agree based on whatever reasons and there is no changing of anyone's mind, I'll walk away and let them have their opinion. I know I'm not going to change their minds and I'm rather opinionated myself (I'm told). Deporting this anti-gun liberal reporter won't accomplish anything and his opinion matters not to me. Deportation should be because one broke some law, not because that someone has a different opinion. Although his opinion is not something I agree with, he has his fans who fully agree with him. He's a Lib that I wouldn't be watching or listening to anyway.

BTW, where we screwed up was letting him in the country in the first place. But, since he works for a Liberal News Network, there's not much of a surprise there.

------------------
Ron
A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.
So, what do ya think, are we there yet?

Michael Savage was banned from the UK for a while (maybe still is) for some of his opinions.
While I don't agree with a lot that he says, I feel that what's fair for the goose...

Aside from that, "freedom of speech" applies to American citizens only.
A foreigner who comes here and speaks against us IS a subversive, as far as I'm concerned.

Farg 'im.

I would assume he's here with the use of a passport and possibly some type of Visa for a extended stay? Therefore, if he violated some term he agreed to when entering the country, then by all means deport him. However, I'd say the same thing no matter who their name is. I mean I'm sure there is a list of things people visiting the country are not allowed to do isn't there? If this is one of those things, well...

I fall on the kick him out side. He is a foreign national agitator. Most countries this is policy.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Michael Savage was banned from the UK for a while (maybe still is) for some of his opinions. While I don't agree with a lot that he says, I feel that what's fair for the goose... Aside from that, "freedom of speech" applies to American citizens only. A foreigner who comes here and speaks against us IS a subversive, as far as I'm concerned. Farg 'im.

He still is banned. In fact he appealed his ban and it was reaffirmed last year.

Since Mr. Morgan is actively trying to undermine our civil liberties he should be sent home. Try going to any other country in the world and speak out against their laws or government. If you are lucky you will only be sent back home.

edit: Here is a law that pertains to this particular subject.

http://www.ourdocuments.gov...c=16&page=transcript

Transcript of Alien and Sedition Acts (1798)

quote Provided always, and be it further enacted, that if any alien so ordered to depart shall prove to the satisfaction of the President, by evidence to be taken before such person or persons as the President shall direct, who are for that purpose hereby authorized to administer oaths, that no injury or danger to the United Slates will arise from suffering such alien to reside therein, the President may grant a license to such alien to remain within the United States for such time as he shall judge proper, and at such place as he may designate.

[This message has been edited by Doug85GT (edited 12-29-2012).]

This. ^ It is law. But moron that later.

Some of you guys crack me up.
It's just the way some of you bend that which you profess to hold so dear to exclude, rather then include.

You do remember the Nazis, right?

P.S. I don't know Piers Morgin, unless he'sthe same guy as that judge on that music show?

Not me. I hold true. Now, if proven wrong, I bend.

Maybe the question should be; Are aliens protected under the Constitution while living here?

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Maybe the question should be; Are aliens protected under the Constitution while living here?

Yes.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: This is one of those 'gray' areas, where a non-national comes here, then bashes our framework but wants to stay around and benefit from it.. Do the have the right to do this? I donno as i have mixed feelings about it. I know i would not go visit England ( for example ), complain about their way of life and expect to be treated well afterwards. Legally, he doesn't have the same rights as we do, as hes not an American. He is a visitor.

I agree with you. OTOH, it's ironic how it's OK to use the second amendment to attack the first amendment.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Maybe the question should be; Are aliens protected under the Constitution while living here?

Yes and no. They have some rights and they do not have others. They obviously do not have the right to vote nor are they afforded a number of other rights. If homeland security questions them and they refuse to answer they can be deported without a trial. They also do not have the right to bear arms in a lot of states.

Are they "protected under the Constitution" like a citizen, no.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Maybe the question should be; Are aliens protected under the Constitution while living here?

As far as I know, they are not, because they are not US citizens. But I could be mistaken.

That said, the right to free speech does have its limits. It is NOT a blanket privilege. Hence the laws against libel, slander, hate speech, etc.

Also, keep in mind that the people who disagree with Piers Morgan were exercising THEIR right to free speech when they called for his removal. Is Piers Morgan's right to free speech more important than theirs? Do THEY deserve to be silenced, any more than him?

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 12-29-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: Also, keep in mind that the people who disagree with Piers Morgan were exercising THEIR right to free speech when they called for his removal. Is Piers Morgan's right to free speech more important than theirs? Do THEY deserve to be silenced, any more than him?

I support their right to free speech.
The problem is theirs.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Yes and no. They have some rights and they do not have others. They obviously do not have the right to vote nor are they afforded a number of other rights. If homeland security questions them and they refuse to answer they can be deported without a trial. They also do not have the right to bear arms in a lot of states. Are they "protected under the Constitution" like a citizen, no.

Voting rights are given by the States. There is no US Constitutional right to vote for say President of the US. If a State allowed aliens to vote, they could do so under state elections.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Voting rights are given by the States. There is no US Constitutional right to vote for say President of the US. If a State allowed aliens to vote, they could do so under state elections.

14th, 15th, 24th and 26th Amendments clearly establishes the right to vote at the Federal level and applied to the states.

In theory I suppose it is possible for a state to give non-citizens the right to vote in state and local elections. I don't think that will ever happen in real life so such a discussion is purely academic.

Let's put this debate in perspective.

. . . 49,000 people want him to leave the country.
. . . The population of the United States of America is 315,000,000, (approximately)

. . . 49,000 / 315,000,000 = .00015 That is .015%. A meer 15 thousandth of 1 percent.

So 3 people in every 20,000 people you meet want him to leave. That is only a tiny fraction of the US population.

Personally I say let him stay.
After all, If Wayne Lapierre can have his opinion and speak his peace in the national spotlight then in the interests of being "fair and balanced", why shouldn't Pierce Morgan be allowed to do likewise?

~ Bob ~

------------------
"Its nice to be important.
Its more important to be nice."

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Maybe the question should be; Are aliens protected under the Constitution while living here?

I found this, although the focus of this article was on illegal aliens rather then people here under a passport/visa.

quote It's All About Equal Protection When the Supreme Court decides cases dealing with First Amendment rights, it typically draws guidance from the 14th Amendment's principal of "equal protection under the law." In essence, the "equal protection" clause extends First Amendment protection to anyone and everyone covered by the 5th and 14th Amendments. Through its consistent rulings that the 5th and 14th Amendments apply equally to illegal aliens, they also enjoy First Amendment rights

So unless there is something a person signs when entering this country under a passport/visa that excludes them from participating in specific activities, I'd imagine the rights are inclusive to them also. However, I'm pretty sure there are things people agree to when entering this country legally, such as a set amount of time for occupancy and the requirement of notification is visit time is to be extended. Additionally, those limitations or requirements probably varry from country of origin to country of origin as different countries will want different things for their citizens who are visiting. I'm curious though, if he's been banned from his country of origin, is he still a citizen there? If not does he have citizenship anywhere? The reason I ask, is if his citizenship in his country of origin has been revoked, then any rights a citizen from that country may have here would not apply. So I would imagine there was some conditions set on his being here, what they are would be interesting to find out if there are.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Aside from that, "freedom of speech" applies to American citizens only.

It was given to us in the Constitution as a "God given right".

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I don't know Piers Morgin, unless he'sthe same guy as that judge on that music show?

He is the dufus who also on his show advocated that the Bible be amended, , . For it's views on homosexuality.

The Constitution is not a document of benefits of US Citizenship, it is an enumeration of the rights of Man.

Mr. Morgan, while I disagree with what he says, has every right to say it. A right given to him by God, not the US government.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I support their right to free speech. The problem is theirs.

Yes, many people do have a problem with Piers Morgan's attitude. He's pushing an agenda which has already been tried (assault weapons ban), and has been proven to be ineffective. When people try to explain this to him, he mocks and insults them. He obviously has no respect for anyone whose opinion differs from his own.

The irony is that several Americans have been deported and/or banned from Britain, because they said or did things which are unpopular there. So if Piers Morgan were to be deported, neither he nor the British government should complain about it. Because that's exactly what they would do to an American if the roles were reversed.

I personally don't consider this to be a First Amendment (or even Second Amendment) issue. To me, it is an issue of a foreign visitor stirring up trouble. And IMO, if he wears out his welcome, then we have every right to send him back home.

Of course, your opinion may differ. But unlike Mr Morgan, I won't call you an idiot.

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: The Constitution is not a document of benefits of US Citizenship, it is an enumeration of the rights of Man. Mr. Morgan, while I disagree with what he says, has every right to say it. A right given to him by God, not the US government.

And you will find that your opinion is in the minority in this case. For good reason.

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 12-29-2012).]

Well, while I do agree with Boonie to a certain extent, I also really don't care what Mr. Morgan thinks about anything concerning American rights and liberties. If he doesn't like it, he can simply go back home.

I wonder if Mr. Morgan uses the services of personal security? If so, does he have a problem with them being armed? Regardless, his voicing his opinion is more of a matter of ratings for him and his show. Since I don't watch his show and mostly likely his network, what he says should not effect any American's opinion.

------------------
Ron
A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.
So, what do ya think, are we there yet?

quote Originally posted by User00013170: And you will find that your opinion is in the minority in this case.

Likely so.

Far too many Americans are already willing to concede that the government grants their rights, not God. If the government grants rights then it has the authority to take them away. And if we're taking away rights, why not start with Brit that said some things we don't like?

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 12-29-2012).]

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: Likely so. Far too many Americans are already willing to concede that the government grants their rights, not God. If the government grants rights then it has the authority to take them away. And if we're taking away rights, why not start with Brit that said some things we don't like?

Very neatly (and correctly) put into a nutshell.