quote Originally posted by 8Ball: And I never said our problems were fixed.. just that they are better.

Stock market is up, unemployment better, economy is starting to come around.

With that said, and no, I'm not being personally arguementive against you 8Ball, situationally, I personally believe that the underlying fundamentals and structure has not been fixed, perhaps worse. The TBTF banks are much bigger, so is the national debt, the Fed is printing money, government is running without a budget, Wall Street has entrenched itself into government positions, PAC money and corperations are buying our representatives. I don't feel like we've got a solid foundation, toss in higher taxes from either party, (you know that's coming for sure) so I just don't feel good about any of this.

We can discuss Romney's flub up, political differences and such, but for me, I think higher point is "seeing" what direction lies ahead and taking steps to protect ourselves from a government that we've lost control of.

quote Originally posted by 8Ball: Sure I know some folks without work. But in their case, they either are not really fit for the work they want to find.. Or are too lazy to take a hard working job to pay their bills.

I had a reply typed out, but in the end I just wish you the best.

Brad

8ball, let's see you criticize Obama and Biden THE SAME for these gaffes:

I have in fact, on Facebook. They are both dumbasses. It is a stupid boneheaded move. I think they both need to piss off.. But if I have to choose one over the other, it will be The Democrats.

I am so sorry I have offended you all's gentle republican sensibilities with my post. I assure I will not rattle your political chains any longer on this forum. It is just no fun.

quote Originally posted by 8Ball: I have in fact, on Facebook. They are both dumbasses. It is a stupid boneheaded move. I think they both need to piss off.. But if I have to choose one over the other, it will be The Democrats. I am so sorry I have offended you all's gentle republican sensibilities with my post. I assure I will not rattle your political chains any longer on this forum. It is just no fun.

I can understand that. People who are not politically astute, shouldn't even dabble in it. Unfortunately they can vote, but that is the way it is set up and don't figure it will change any time soon.

An uninformed voter is a politician's and political party's best friend.

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 08-11-2012).]

quote Originally posted by 8Ball: I have in fact, on Facebook. They are both dumbasses. It is a stupid boneheaded move. I think they both need to piss off.. But if I have to choose one over the other, it will be The Democrats.

We aren't on Facebook, we're on Pennock's, and YOU made a thread specifically about this topic.

So, why would you choose Democrats? Haven't they done enough economic damage yet, or do you want the country to go bankrupt?

quote I am so sorry I have offended you all's gentle republican sensibilities with my post. I assure I will not rattle your political chains any longer on this forum. It is just no fun.

I'm not offended. I'm simply pointing out that when people like you make posts like this, you're being hypocritical.

Yeah, I guess it must not be much fun having people point out your uneven criticism and undermining your point.

Pretty sure that what he's saying is that our government is a huge mess right now. Th dems aren't helping, but the reps aren't going to save us either. The ONLY choice we are left with is the old "lesser of two evils".

quote Originally posted by dratts: Pretty sure that what he's saying is that our government is a huge mess right now. Th dems aren't helping, but the reps aren't going to save us either. The ONLY choice we are left with is the old "lesser of two evils".

No, dratts. Paul Ryan has an actual PLAN to deal with the deficits. What is the Democrats' plan? Raise taxes, but can't cut spending?

No, it is NOT the lesser of evils. It is the team with a plan versus the team with NO plan.

He has a plan alright.. Repeal Healthcare, Repeal Fair INS. Coverage for all, End Medicare and let the old Die. Then Tax the Poor and give the rich the breaks.. Because if you give the Rich Tax breaks... supposedly they create jobs.

Oh right... I am not posting anymore.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: No, dratts. Paul Ryan has an actual PLAN to deal with the deficits. What is the Democrats' plan? Raise taxes, but can't cut spending? No, it is NOT the lesser of evils. It is the team with a plan versus the team with NO plan.

I will agree that we need to cut spending. Tax breaks for people who are so rich that they don't need it. Not so much. We're still left with the lesser of two evils.

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Romney was our stake president back when we lived in Massachusetts 20 years ago. I know the man well

You will have a hard time finding someone that genuine and caring anywhere. Try giving 10-15% of your money away in tithing and charity every month and see if you can handle it when people call you a crook. Media and Politics can make anyone look bad. He isn't

quote Originally posted by FriendOfYours: Romney was our stake president back when we lived in Massachusetts 20 years ago. I know the man well You will have a hard time finding someone that genuine and caring anywhere. Try giving 10-15% of your money away in tithing and charity every month and see if you can handle it when people call you a crook. Media and Politics can make anyone look bad. He isn't

So did your "stake" president drive a strake through your states heart? Just kidding! Your state has a president? Most of them have governors.

Oh horrors to have some candidate know and understand budgets and business and not just a community organiser who knows nothing but how to game the system. I hear of the worry that Ryan has no foreign expertise, but just how much did Obama have when elected? Zero after a couple of years scamming the Illinoise population as a state representative and a senator. OMG

quote Originally posted by 8Ball: He has a plan alright.. Repeal Healthcare, Repeal Fair INS. Coverage for all, End Medicare and let the old Die. Then Tax the Poor and give the rich the breaks.. Because if you give the Rich Tax breaks... supposedly they create jobs.

Wrong.

The healthcare law is CRAP. It is full of fiscal holes, won't reduce the deficit as Obama claims, and relies on all kinds of accounting tricks to make it look like it will work.

If you cut people's taxes, you aren't GIVING them anything. You are simply taking less of THEIR money. And where do you get the idea that Ryan wants to "tax the poor"? I assume you have PROOF?

quote Oh right... I am not posting anymore.

After all the false crap you just posted, that might not be a bad idea. How about you put up or shut up?

quote Originally posted by dratts: So did your "stake" president drive a strake through your states heart? Just kidding! Your state has a president? Most of them have governors.

I can't tell if you're being serious. He was the selected "head honcho" to a few thousand Mormons in our area

quote Originally posted by dratts: I will agree that we need to cut spending. Tax breaks for people who are so rich that they don't need it. Not so much. We're still left with the lesser of two evils.

WHAT "tax breaks"? Do you mean extending the current tax rate, instead of letting it "expire"? Whatever the tax rate is NOW, IS the tax rate. If it goes up, that is RAISING taxes, and bad thing to do in the middle of a s*** economy, which wouldn't help *anyone*, rich or poor.

By the way, speaking of "lesser of evils", did you see where the Democrats are willing to let ALL the tax rates go up if they don't get their way one raising the rates for the rich? It is the DEMOCRATS who are willing to raise taxes on the poor. Period.

quote Originally posted by FriendOfYours: I can't tell if you're being serious. He was the selected "head honcho" to a few thousand Mormons in our area

There wasn't a serious word there. I was just kidding your spelling mistake. Your head honcho was the governor right?

I hear the Left talk about "tax cuts for the rich" a lot. Last I checked, there was no proposal to cut their taxes. The only thing I've heard proposed is making the existing tax levels permanent. "Not raising" does not equal "cut."

I think that the easiest way deal with it is to let the tax cuts expire. They were temporary anyway. Then give a tax break to those under $250,000. As I've said it's not necessary for those over that amount and I'm not a subscriber to the trickle down theory. It sure didn't trickle down during the last bush administration. They just hoarded the money.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: WHAT "tax breaks"? Do you mean extending the current tax rate, instead of letting it "expire"? Whatever the tax rate is NOW, IS the tax rate. If it goes up, that is RAISING taxes, and bad thing to do in the middle of a s*** economy, which wouldn't help *anyone*, rich or poor. By the way, speaking of "lesser of evils", did you see where the Democrats are willing to let ALL the tax rates go up if they don't get their way one raising the rates for the rich? It is the DEMOCRATS who are willing to raise taxes on the poor. Period.

quote Originally posted by 8Ball: Can this guy not do anything without screwing up? He just announced Paul Ryan as the next President of the USA. Not as the next VP.

Too funny.

And the bipartisanship is the root of all the problems.

The left and the right will not agree on anything ever so long as both sides are taking these stupid tactics against each other.

For example, the Jobs Act... It was a good idea, but the republican party REFUSED to allow it to pass. They Filibustered it because Boener SAID.... Do not Let Obama Pass anything.

How is that any good for our country, to absolutely allow NOTHING to be accomplished?

So long as both sides can not come together and do what is RIGHT FOR US THE PEOPLE instead of them the politicians.... We will never be in any better shape, no matter WHO is elected.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Too funny.

They have been playing the tape of this, as well as the one where four years ago Obama made the same mistake when announcing Biden as the next president of the united states.
It is comical that neither avoided the old slip of the tong.

And just thinking about it...

I am not one to call for a Revolution... But if our Political Circus does not stop doing for them, and start doing for us.. This is exactly what will need to happen.

quote Originally posted by 8Ball: And the bipartisanship is the root of all the problems. The left and the right will not agree on anything ever so long as both sides are taking these stupid tactics against each other. For example, the Jobs Act... It was a good idea, but the republican party REFUSED to allow it to pass. They Filibustered it because Boener SAID.... Do not Let Obama Pass anything. How is that any good for our country, to absolutely allow NOTHING to be accomplished? So long as both sides can not come together and do what is RIGHT FOR US THE PEOPLE instead of them the politicians.... We will never be in any better shape, no matter WHO is elected.

The jobs bill was a handout to the states who can't manage their budgets, so by shooting it down it was right for THE PEOPLE WHO PAY TAXES!

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quote Originally posted by 8Ball: How is that any good for our country, to absolutely allow NOTHING to be accomplished?

With the idiots we keep electing, I'm pretty sure I prefer they get nothing done...

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Exactly, we need a complete change in DC, and come Nov, you will get your wish.

Are you suggesting a COMPLETE change or just a republican victory as a solution? BIG difference!

quote Originally posted by 8Ball: But Obama is better for the country.

I'm going to hate myself for asking someone to explain in a rational manner the basis for a....uh, statement. But....sigh, what can you possibily be basing that on? The unemployment rate that he has increased since taking office? The doubling of people on Welfare? The reduction of the rate of growth to almost flat levels? The lack of a budget (in violation of the law) 3 years in a row? The reduction of the middle class and the increase in the poor? The Record increase in our debt? The destruction of age old friendships with allied nations and the appeasement of murderous nations? The lack of leadership in the face of an ecological disaster? The 104 golf games? The Destruction of the Healthcare system? The increase of taxes on the middle class?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: "Not raising" does not equal "cut."

It does if you are a lying Democrat.

quote Originally posted by skuzzbomer: With the idiots we keep electing, I'm pretty sure I prefer they get nothing done...

I'm not looking for a stalemate, but if we're heading in the wrong direction I agree. That goes for both parties. Sometimes I think of all the laws that are passed. Some of which I think are unessary, there should be a requirement that for every new law an old outdated one should be removed. Otherwise we are going to be so awash in laws that we are all outlaws.

quote Originally posted by dratts: Are you suggesting a COMPLETE change or just a republican victory as a solution? BIG difference!

Complete to me is dumping the ones in power, right now that is the progressives on both sides of the isle.
Replace them with whoever their opponent is.

So what exactly is it going to take to get this country back on track with it's people's wants.

Basing your opinion of a Candidate upon what happened to you specifically as a person financially (and stating that your success was due to the man in office, for that matter) is a level of pure naivety that I cannot even begin to fathom.

I'd rather not even attempt it, for fear of it being contagious.

Don't get me twisted, I'm an Independent voter, I cast my vote for the candidate who presents the best platform and will select a party when it's not a choice between the better of two evils.

That said, I find Romney's affirmations and statements to be more appealing than Obama's track record. Obama can talk all he likes, but the facts are there. He's running a shady deal and has already broken promises left and right. To do the same thing over again and expect different results is the definition of insanity.

quote Originally posted by dratts: I don't know if any of us actually know what is in the AHCA. 2000 pages.

Paul Ryan evidently does...

quote My impression is that it's a huge gift to the insurance industry.

Not according to Obama. FYI, single payer means no insurance companies.

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Complete to me is dumping the ones in power, right now that is the progressives on both sides of the isle. Replace them with whoever their opponent is.

Progressives on both sides? I thought that progressive was the new buzz word for liberal.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Too funny.

almost as funny as when Obama did it.