Originally posted by Newf Some people on OT seem to delight in the idea that if an opinion differs from theirs they should be ganged up on and run out of here. It's pathetic IMO.
And yet we hear from another non contributor. If you guys are going to stay out of this thread, PLEASE STAY OUT! Don't be hypocrits and say you are going to skip and ignore this thread and then come back in to spout crap. That is just plain rude and trolling. If you truly hate what I post why do you keep coming back for more? Are you guys really that dense or do you get your rocks off by being annoying? It seems that some of you guys enjoy the "pathetic" behavior you accuse others of in the above quote.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 08-11-2012).]
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06:29 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Those who understand that America is now on the wrong track cannot reasonably vote for Obama in November, because he is absolutely unwilling to change, perhaps even ideologically incapable of changing, course. Evidence abounds.
First, consider his disastrous economic record and his rejection of any semblance of a course change. He and his economic advisers told us his stimulus would keep unemployment below 8 percent. It didn’t. He didn’t consider for a second that his policies exacerbated the economic crisis. He blamed Bush and said that if anything, he — Obama — hadn’t spent enough. He demanded more stimulus packages — high-speed rail, other infrastructure, American Jobs Act. He continued to grow government in a wide variety of areas; things continued to get worse. No sign of any significant economic recovery; we had the worst recovery in 50 years. No sign of unemployment relief. He didn’t change course.
Despite his failed performance, he told us in 2009 that only the government could break this business cycle. He told us in Osawatomie, Kan., that the private sector couldn’t lead us back to economic vitality on its own. Recently, he told us that successful entrepreneurs didn’t build their businesses — or roads or bridges or whatever claptrap he pretended to have meant. He refuses to reconsider his flawed notions. Arrogance, as much as ignorance.
If you think that despite all this, Obama may have learned his lesson and will change course going forward, you are fooling yourself. Obama won’t change his economic policies, because he is addicted to spending and to growing government on several levels. His economic philosophy, his ideology and his political survival demand that he stay the course.
He firmly believes that only government spending — Keynesian pump priming — can stimulate a moribund economy. He believes it to the point that he’s willing to bankrupt the nation to do it. His philosophy countenances no other alternative methods of recovery, specifically letting the private sector breathe and recover on its own. That’s the economic philosophy component.
He also knows that the most efficient way to redistribute wealth and otherwise reallocate resources from groups he believes less deserving to those he believes more deserving is through an increasingly progressive tax code and more government spending. That is, even if he shared the ordinary American’s debt aversion and reasonable anxiety about our horrifying financial predicament, he wouldn’t discontinue (hasn’t discontinued) his pursuit of ever-greater taxing and spending, because to do so would be tantamount to abandoning his quest, his obsession to fundamentally transform America.
That’s the ideological component.
Finally, he fully realizes that even if he didn’t firmly believe in expanding the welfare state — incentivizing states to expand their food stamp rolls, extending unemployment benefits, sabotaging welfare reform, increasing the percentage of people not paying income taxes and otherwise presiding over the unprecedented swelling of the welfare state and those dependent on government aid of one form or another — he would still be compelled to continue expanding it because he believes a great majority of his constituents depend on this expansion. He couldn’t win re-election without doing so. That’s the political component.
The same general themes hold true for Obama’s extremist environmental agenda. His policies are enormously destructive to our coal, oil, nuclear energy and natural gas industries, but he shows no signs of letting up, even though these policies are also manifestly destroying American jobs and otherwise harming the economy. Why would he? He telegraphed his actions, and he’s merely fulfilling his promise.
While sabotaging our reliable energy sources, he is also throwing as much federal money as he can at failed green energy projects, which are so ill-conceived that a reasonable person might conclude his goal is to waste money. Solyndra wasn’t the only such failed enterprise, as we’ve shown. There were a dozen others, and despite these failures and the unconscionable waste, he has revealed nothing but a defiant determination to double down and spend more on other such projects. It’s mind-blowing.
Likewise, he pursued Obamacare with maniacal intensity, even when the public clearly and emphatically registered its dissent. His response was more haranguing speeches to browbeat the recalcitrant, ignorant masses into seeing his superior wisdom. Even after the stated purposes for his grand design have been shown to be fundamentally flawed — it’s going to bend the cost curve up, not down, and dramatically so, and it’s going to leave 30 million people uninsured — he is more determined than ever to implement it against the people’s will.
I am just getting warmed up here; I haven’t even discussed his politics of division or his wars on business, our defenses and the Constitution. The bottom line is this: If you like Obama’s record, vote for him, because you’re only going to get more of it — way more if he wins and thinks he has a mandate.
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06:36 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Have you ever wondered why people behave in the bad mannerism they do especially if they do not get their way? I have asked this question and wondered why these people behave so poorly. Over the years of watching and listening to those who seem to always complain about this and that, I have finally realized why these people act this way. Have you ever been shopping in some store and out of the blue, we hear some kid crying and carrying-on about something they want? We look over and the parent is not allowing them to get it, no matter how much they are in a temper tantrum?
Most of us can say we have seen how children act when they are young and when they do not get something they think they need, right? Recently, we have seen how a lot of adults behave when they too do not get their way. The best examples are those who have been and still are at Occupy Wall Street. Even though it is not currently reported by the main stream media, we can find news-worthy sources that show what despicable acts they are doing and how deplorable they are behaving. Remember, it was the main stream media outlets and the Democrat Party that said it is “these people who are supporters of Barack Obama and his agenda.” Are they reporting this today? Nope.
What is behind their mentality and how does it relate to the condition we are experiencing today in America? There is a common element that persists in all the examples just described and it is one that the news media and the Democrat Party depend upon. What it boils down to is this, “They act this way because they have minds that are immature.” An immature mind is a mind that cannot act in a mature manner; they cannot act without acting out; they cannot act by only using thought and reason.
The Democrat Party wants and needs those who have minds that are immature because they can mold them into thinking in a specific way. This is why the Democrat Party wants to control all of the main stream news media outlets too. If they can control the news that is being reported, those who have immature minds can be easily swayed by lies and deceit. They can be embolden to go out and occupy public places based upon emotion, not reason. They can get votes for a candidate who is not worthy in many aspects to be President of the United States. They only tell partial truths as they play upon the immaturity of those who can be molded into believing lies and things that are not true.
As I get older, I have come to realize that it can be fun to slip back to a time when my mind was young. However, one thing I can always say and that is “I have never been duped by the Democrat Party and there is nothing they can offer that will get me to believe what they say is true.” I am not saying Republicans always tell the truth, but I can say if we do not elect a Republican President and a Republican Congress in this next election, then America as we have grown up with, will be gone.
I do not need proof for you to believe me. All you have to do is look at what is happening right now. If you need proof, then you will need a mature mind because a mature mind can see what is clearly happening. I will not be able to convince an immature mind, because of its immaturity. I will tell you our ‘American Freedoms’ are being destroyed which means our United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights are being trampled upon. Our laws are being perverted into instruments of coercion and we have those in elected office today who only crave power. They are changing everything we hold dear and are trying to control every aspect of our lives. Those who have immature minds cannot see these things, because they are blinded by hate or greed. It is only us, those who have a mature mind that can see what is happening. It is us, those who act maturely in our daily deeds who can rationally understand what is happening to America; what we are seeing, we do not like.
When we see those Democrat supporters who are ‘pitching a fit’ because they did not get their way, what are we to think? We can know that these people have immature minds and they are being controlled by the main stream media and the Democrat Party. We can say they do not speak with authority because it is like the child in the store who is not getting their way. Do we let them run our life, or is it up to us, those who are mature, to run their life? If we allow the Democrat Party to win this coming election, then just imagine when the minds of the immature are telling you how to live every aspect of your life.
Today we are experiencing just a taste of what it is like for the immature to rule us; if we do not vote into office mature thinking people who honor our US Laws, our US Constitution and our Bill of Rights then we will never have a free America the remainder of our lifetime; nor our children’s lifetime. It is time for Americans to grow up and be mature about what needs to happen in order to save our Nation!
Kind of reminds me of how some people on here feel about authority, like in the cop getting his foot runned over by the Ferrari thread.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 08-11-2012).]
And yet we hear from another non contributor. If you guys are going to stay out of this thread, PLEASE STAY OUT! Don't be hypocrits and say you are going to skip and ignore this thread and then come back in to spout crap. That is just plain rude and trolling. If you truly hate what I post why do you keep coming back for more? Are you guys really that dense or do you get your rocks off by being annoying? It seems that some of you guys enjoy the "pathetic" behavior you accuse others of in the above quote.
A couple of things. This thread was not started by you and it has branched out from being your own little "***** about Obama/Dems" corner so I felt like posting a response to Patrick's comment, deal with it. And if you haven't already noticed I don't post in YOUR threads anymore and never will, I don't like to feed the trolls as they say. I'm glad you got your bottom slapped for your clogging up the OT section, if you were to keep all of your posts to a overriding thread like FieroBear has attempted with AGW I would appreciate it and have no problem whatsoever. I know it will spill over to other threads at times but it would keep OT much tidier IMO.
Have you considered a blog as you don't seem to encourage any dissenting voices?
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 08-11-2012).]
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07:13 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 38983 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
I think the idea of having one thread for all his C&P drivel is a great idea!!!! I can skip past that one instead scrolling past his numerous hate and fear threads that litter the OT section.
Ah, but you see... that's the catch! This particular thread is for just his cut and paste "political" drivel. There will still be thread after thread after thread of his other cut and paste drivel that he doesn't consider political.
I'll believe there's been any change when I see it.
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07:15 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Originally posted ny Newf I don't post in YOUR threads anymore and never will
And yet here we have you posting again and not contributing. This thread was set up for ME by another member, and is now mine. If you don't like it, don't come in here.
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07:24 PM
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
b]Originally posted by Patrick[/b] Ah, but you see... that's the catch! This particular thread is for just his cut and paste "political" drivel. There will still be thread after thread after thread of his other cut and paste drivel that he doesn't consider political.
I'll believe there's been any change when I see it.
Another comprehension challenged person who insists on not reading or posting in my threads, and yet we find him here again, not contributing anything at all, except for spam with a side of troll. You guys are a real piece of work and some major hypocrits.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 08-11-2012).]
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07:27 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
"Fair enough and you will confine your posts to here right?"
I will confine my Obama posts to here, unless I keep getting spammed and trolled by disgruntal hypocrit members. They will cause this thread to go into the can and all bets are off then.
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07:29 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25484 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
------------------ Cliff Pennock - "I'm no Obama supporter. In fact, my personal opinion is that he's the worst thing that could've happened to your country."
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07:46 PM
PFF
System Bot
Patrick Member
Posts: 38983 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
"Oh I see, you're making the rules now... one day after Cliff lays down the law. This should go over well."
So go tattle tale to him and stop spamming me here. What have I got to do so you won't post in here like you keep promising? Not only are you dense, you can't even keep your own promises. No wonder trolls live under bridges.
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08:59 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
This thread was set up for ME by another member, and is now mine. If you don't like it, don't come in here.
Don't hold your breath, on that wish. I have asked several times for certain people to keep their junk out of MY threads, and was told it ain't MINE, and threads just "naturally wander".
"Oh I see, you're making the rules now... one day after Cliff lays down the law. This should go over well."
So go tattle tale to him and stop spamming me here. What have I got to do so you won't post in here like you keep promising? Not only are you dense, you can't even keep your own promises. No wonder trolls live under bridges.
No offense, but so far, you aren't keeping your promises either.. There are 2 or 3 political/religious threads on here that you just posted today.. Do what you said you would do (what Cliff told you to do!) and maby these guys will stay out of your topic..
And yet here we have you posting again and not contributing. This thread was set up for ME by another member, and is now mine. If you don't like it, don't come in here.
Not sure how you could have possibly missed it but....
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Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Avengador... please feel free to post political posts in my thread!
Anyhoo if you are willing to contain your c&p parties to one or two overriding threads I will more than happily stay out of them as I have all your threads for a long time now. THis thread may have been set up for you but it is also ABOUT you and your style of posting, that's the only reason I posted. I think you have been shown by many here that we would appreciate if you did what Cliff has asked and not clutter up the OT section.
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 08-12-2012).]
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08:28 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25484 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Anyhoo if you are willing to contain your c&p parties to one or two overriding threads I will more than happily stay out of them as I have all your threads for a long time now. THis thread may have been set up for you but it is also ABOUT you and your style of posting, that's the only reason I posted. I think you have been shown by many here that we would appreciate if you did what Cliff has asked and not clutter up the OT section.
I like you Newf, I do... (promise)... but I want to make it clear that when I created this thread, I was not busting on Avengador. Like him, I am scared... scared shitless at the thought of another 4 years of Obama. This is NOT like how the Democrats were upset when Bush won a second term, things are totally different now. Whatever it was that the Democrats didn't like about Bush, Obama has continued ALL of it. I mean, he's still using Bush's budget from September of 2007. Every single thing that Bush did, Obama has continued... EVERYTHING.
Why people are even considering voting for him is beyond me, but I just can't understand how people can overlook the fact that he INCREASED THE FEDERAL DEBT BY 50%. Those aren't exaggerations, that is a FACT!!! Obama took over the presidency when we had 10.6 trillion in debt. By the Monday after next, we will have reached 16 trillion (we're only 80 billion shy right now). By the end of his presidency (or first term), the debt will be 16.4 trillion dollars. That's more than 50%... but at this point, it's currently a 50% increase.
Middle class wealth has depreciated by 40% over the past 3 years, and millionaires are fleeing the United States in droves to avoid the looming taxes (many of them high-level Democrat supporters)
Things are NOT good. So don't mis-understand my intentions.
I like you Newf, I do... (promise)... but I want to make it clear that when I created this thread, I was not busting on Avengador. Like him, I am scared... scared shitless at the thought of another 4 years of Obama. This is NOT like how the Democrats were upset when Bush won a second term, things are totally different now. Whatever it was that the Democrats didn't like about Bush, Obama has continued ALL of it. I mean, he's still using Bush's budget from September of 2007. Every single thing that Bush did, Obama has continued... EVERYTHING.
Why people are even considering voting for him is beyond me, but I just can't understand how people can overlook the fact that he INCREASED THE FEDERAL DEBT BY 50%. Those aren't exaggerations, that is a FACT!!! Obama took over the presidency when we had 10.6 trillion in debt. By the Monday after next, we will have reached 16 trillion (we're only 80 billion shy right now). By the end of his presidency (or first term), the debt will be 16.4 trillion dollars. That's more than 50%... but at this point, it's currently a 50% increase.
Middle class wealth has depreciated by 40% over the past 3 years, and millionaires are fleeing the United States in droves to avoid the looming taxes (many of them high-level Democrat supporters)
Things are NOT good. So don't mis-understand my intentions.
Doesn't bother me if you like me or not but thanks. I don't think I misinterpreted your intentions by starting this thread, in fact if you can reign Avengadors C&P fest into one thread I commend you and I hope I need never enter this thread again if he uses it.
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03:57 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27106 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
No offense, but so far, you aren't keeping your promises either.. There are 2 or 3 political/religious threads on here that you just posted today.. Do what you said you would do (what Cliff told you to do!) and maby these guys will stay out of your topic..
Wasn't the issue that A1 was starting multiple threads? Were the threads you are talking about started by A1?
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04:40 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Since there seems to be some misconceptions about what Cliffs said I can do, here is what he wrote:
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock It's really OK to create a few thread about politics. But try to group the stories a bit. You know, create one thread with stories about how Obama sucks as a president. Then create one thread with stories about how Obama sucks as a person. Then perhaps create another thread with stories how much the government sucks. Also, don't cut and paste the story. Just list headlines and a link to the story.
As you all can see, I really am not confined to just posting in this thread. I was doing it as a favor to Cliff, but some really dense people can't seem to stay out of here, even after declaring how much they hate my posts. I have always tried to keep similarly themed stories in similarly themed threads and I add to them as I find them. The problem I and others have is the trolls nad spammers who cannot or will not add anything valuable to a discussion. They are just there to deflect, lie, hit and run, and then gloat about how the Powned someone, when in reality all they did is to let the world know what kind of idiots they really are.
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10:05 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
In a video recently uploaded to YouTube, tea party activist and author Jerome Corsi said there was evidence that President Barack Obama was married to another man before he married Michelle.
“The evidence, I think, is very strong,” Jerome Corsi states the video. “The question is not to condemn Obama here for being bisexual or gay, if that’s in fact what he is, but to wonder why he’s gone to the extent of hiding it, especially when he now is supporting same sex marriage what’s the duplicity? What’s the hypocrisy?”
Corsi has written numerous books criticizing Obama, claiming he is a radical who is not eligible to be President of the United States because he is not a natural born citizen.
In his video, he claimed multiple pictures proved that Obama wore a ring on his wedding-ring finger before he married Michelle in 1992.
“Evidently Obama has never explained it,” Corsi said. “He has never given any discussion of it. It’s like many of the factors of Obama’s life. There are hidden aspects to it, lies, mysteries disinformation. Increasingly, I try to point out to people that Obama’s life reads like a classic intelligence agency disinformation operation.”
He noted there were pictures of Obama sitting on his Pakistani roommate’s lap.
“His Pakistani roommate, whom we also went to Pakistan with, from Occidental, seems to have been — take a look at pictures of he and his roommate together — Obama had all these roommate pictures, seems to be sitting about on the guy’s lap,” Corsi explained. “I’ve not seen a lot of roommate pictures where two guys are that chummy. The issue is again, not an issue that we want to raise in terms of criticizing the homosexuality or the bisexuality or whatever Obama’s true inclinations are, the issue is why does he have to lie about this too.”
"Fair enough and you will confine your posts to here right?"
I will confine my Obama posts to here, unless I keep getting spammed and trolled by disgruntal hypocrit members. They will cause this thread to go into the can and all bets are off then.
Some of us conservatives will continue to peek into your fortress of solitude regularly to make sure the "data" you post in these articles is factual and not just garbage. No free rides. If you are going to post it, be prepared to back up the subject matter with proof. Tit for tat. quid pro quo. THAT, is political discussion and debate.
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10:15 PM
fogglethorpe Member
Posts: 4828 From: Valley of the Sun Registered: Jul 2001
And yet here we have you posting again and not contributing. This thread was set up for ME by another member, and is now mine. If you don't like it, don't come in here.
It's not yours. It belongs to Cliff Pennock. Maybe you've heard of him.
By the way..it's "hypocrite".
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10:21 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
"Some of us conservatives will continue to peek into your fortress of solitude regularly to make sure the "data" you post in these articles is factual and not just garbage. No free rides. If you are going to post it, be prepared to back up the subject matter with proof. Tit for tat. quid pro quo. THAT, is political discussion and debate."
I welcome this with open arms.
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10:37 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Originally posted by fogglethorpe By the way..it's "hypocrite".
Definition of hypocrite (n) bing.com · Bing Dictionary hyp·o·crite [ híppə krìt ] somebody feigning high principles: somebody who pretends to have admirable principles, beliefs, or feelings but behaves otherwise Synonyms: charlatan, fraud, phoney, dissembler, double-dealer, pretender, whited sepulcher
I guess it must be true that it takes one to know how to spell it correctly. Who made you the spelling police? Forgive me for living and not using a spell checker, oh master of the English language. For someone who really hates politics and my threads, you can't seem to stay out of this one and others. Wasn't "Avengador's Poliics Corner" warning enough for you, or wasn't this thread marked political? Are you that big of a masochist, or is it that you don't understand the concept of what is going to be posted in this thread? I'll give you a hint: stay out unless you don't want your whittle feelings hurt. The articles and stories that will be posted in here will only cause you heart break and anguish. If you are too dumb to stay out, don't say no one warned you of the content. If you keep coming back here, to not add to the discussion, YOU are just being a HYPOCRITE, a spammer, and a troll.
"Some of us conservatives will continue to peek into your fortress of solitude regularly to make sure the "data" you post in these articles is factual and not just garbage. No free rides. If you are going to post it, be prepared to back up the subject matter with proof. Tit for tat. quid pro quo. THAT, is political discussion and debate."
quote
Originally posted by avengador1: I welcome this with open arms.
Better have your Ts crossed and Is dotted, cuz otherwisae, I'm going to chew ya up and spit you and your articles out.
I have long been a very vocal and active proponent of a policy wherein groups should kick their own garbage out, whether those groups be religious (Muslim vs Al Queda--Baptists vs Fred Phelps), Military, Political or social, and in the case of political rhetoric, I see no reason to make exception.
If you think being sequestered here in your own little smelly corner of OT is going to give you free reign to spout and spread lies, fecal innuendo, implication and do so unimpeded via yellow journalism, under the guise and in the name of conservative political affiliation, you are very much mistaken. Bring your best game.
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12:50 AM
fogglethorpe Member
Posts: 4828 From: Valley of the Sun Registered: Jul 2001
Definition of hypocrite (n) bing.com · Bing Dictionary hyp·o·crite [ híppə krìt ] somebody feigning high principles: somebody who pretends to have admirable principles, beliefs, or feelings but behaves otherwiseSynonyms: charlatan, fraud, phoney, dissembler, double-dealer, pretender, whited sepulcher
Congratulations. You do know how to use a dictionary. I just didn't think you should be slinging around a word you can't spell.
quote
I guess it must be true that it takes one to know how to spell it correctly.
That is so clever and original. I guess I will slink away in shame now.
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I'll give you a hint: stay out unless you don't want your whittle feelings hurt.
Feelings? I do this for fun.
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The articles and stories that will be posted in here will only cause you heart break and anguish
Even if I read them (I don't) that is unlikely.
quote
If you are too dumb to stay out, don't say no one warned you of the content. If you keep coming back here, to not add to the discussion, YOU are just being a HYPOCRITE, a spammer, and a troll.
Yawn.
Yeah, I know. If I don't slather you with praise for your cut and paste abilities, there must be something wrong with me.
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09:23 AM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Keep posting, it only shows how big of a hypocrite you are. You keep saying you don't read or don't care about my threads, and yet you are still posting here. Keep posting, hypocrite.
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Originally posted by fogglethorpe I do this for fun.
That just shows that you are a troll.
quote
Originally posted by fogglethorpe If I don't slather you with praise for your cut and paste abilities, there must be something wrong with me.
I don't need you to do anything for me, except to quit your trolling and spamming, and to quit posting non contributing dribble to his thread. I think I am just going to let this thread die now, because the trolls and spammers cannot stay out of it. The other forums members can thank you and the other trolls for this decison. It seems that your thick skulls won't get it through your heads to quit, so you leave no other choice. I hope the other members will be happy to learn that they have you to thank, for me going back to the main page to post my anti-Obama stories. I will be giving you full credit for this as you earned it
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 08-13-2012).]
I don't need you to do anything for me, except to quit your trolling and spamming, and to quit posting non contributing dribble to his thread.
Not wishing to be guilty of only posting "non contributing" dribble in this thread, I humbly submit a fascinating video of fellas who really know how to dribble. Enjoy!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-14-2012).]
Not wishing to be guilty of only posting "non contributing" dribble in this thread, I humbly submit a fascinating video of fellas who really know how to dribble. Enjoy!
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 08-14-2012).]
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08:35 AM
fogglethorpe Member
Posts: 4828 From: Valley of the Sun Registered: Jul 2001
