According to bible, in the end times, expect widespread deception, counterfeit miracles, and the appearance of false prophets. Each of these evils will contribute to an atmosphere that will deceive an untold number of people throughout the world. The Antichrist, possibly a charismatic Muslim with a fake Jesus as a sidekick, will convince his followers he is the answer to the world’s problems. Paul tells us that those who become caught in the Antichrist’s web of deceit will be guilty because they freely choose to enjoy evil while denying the truth.

END TIME SIGNS

1. False Bible teachers would be money hungry. They would be smooth talkers, have many followers, and slur the Christian faith (2 Peter 2:1-3) See some at: Fakemessiah.com

2. Homosexuality would be increasingly evident at the end of the age (2 Timothy 3:3)

3. Earthquakes would be in diverse places (Matthew 24:7)

4. Stress would be part of living (2 Timothy 3:1)

5. Many wars would erupt (Matthew 24:6)

6. People would forsake the Ten Commandments as a moral code, committing adultery, stealing, lying, and killing (Matthew 24:12)

7. There would be a cold religious system, in denying God's power (2 Timothy 3:5)

8. Men would substitute fantasy in place of Christian truth (2 Timothy 4:4). This is so evident at Christmas when the birth of the Savior is lost behind the myth of Santa Claus.

9. Deadly diseases would be prevalent (Matthew 24:7). The worldwide increase in AIDS deaths is almost inestimable. Over 160,000 Americans die of cancer each year.

10. The fact that God once flooded the earth (the Noahic flood) would be denied (2 Peter 3:5-6). There is a mass of fossil evidence to prove this fact, yet it is flatly ignored by the scientific world because of its uncanny implication.

11. The institution of marriage would be forsaken by many (1 Timothy 4:3)

12. There would be an increase in famines (Matthew 24:7)

13. Increase in vegetarianism would increase (1 Timothy 4:3-4)

14. There would be a cry for peace (1 Thessalonians 5:3)

15. The possession of Jerusalem would be at the center of international turmoil (Zechariah 12:3)

16. Knowledge would increase (Daniel 12:4)

17. There would be hypocrites within the Church (Matthew 13:25-30)

18. There would be an increase of religious cults/false teachers (Matthew 24:11 & 24)

19. The future would seem fearful to many (Luke 21:26)

20. Humanity would become materialistic (2 Timothy 3:4)

21. There would be many involved in travel (Daniel 12:4)

22. The Christian Gospel would be preached as a warning to all nations (Matthew 24:14)

23. Jesus said Christians would be hated "for His name's sake" (Matthew 24:9)

24: And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. (Luke 21:25-26).

25: Youth would become rebellious. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy (2 Timothy 3:2)

26: Men would mock the warning signs of the end of the age saying, "for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." (2 Peter 3:4). The Bible even reveals their motivation, they love lust (verse 3). They fail to understand that a day to the Lord is as a thousand years to us. God is not subject to the time that He created. He can flick through time as we flick through the pages of a history book. The reason He seems to be silent, is because He is patiently waiting, not willing that any perish, but that all come to repentance.

Prophetic Signs that we are in the End Times
One day people will start to listen
Contender Ministries
The Bible gives many examples of signs that should warn us of the coming end of the age. Six such signs are given by Jesus, two characteristics are given by Paul, and eleven other occurrences are given by the prophets to occur prior to or soon after the end of the age. While we are also told we will not know the time of the End, God obviously wanted us to know when that time was getting closer. As the Christian church is increasingly drawn into the interfaith movement, and as more and more churches go into isolation, preparing to sleep through the growing attacks on their faith, perhaps God knew it would take a few signs to wake us up and remind us that we have work to do.

Unfortunately, many Christians take the verses that tell us we won't know the time of His coming to mean they should ignore any and all scripture that might warn us of this time of tribulation. Others have fallen into the trap of fearing being labeled a "conspiracy theorist" should they display an interest in the Biblical prophecies about our future on Earth. My philosophy is simple. God included it in the Bible and, since God is all knowing, we should trust that it is something we should know and study along with the rest of His Word.

It is increasingly obvious that the time of our Lord's coming is drawing near. Prophecy is being fulfilled daily, and at a faster pace than ever before. Whether you believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, or believe Christians will be witness to the full tribulation, wrath, and final judgments, matters not. The beginning of birth pains and the signs of the times should have the same effect on all of us. It should motivate us to save as many souls as we can in the time that we have left. The Great Commission tells us to be disciples to all nations, bringing the message of salvation through Christ to all people. If the Church is raptured before the tribulation, it is important that we leave behind an explanation for the trials and judgments those left behind will face. How else will they recognize the deception of the anti-Christ and seek instead the truth of the Bible? If we are to endure the tribulation along side them, we will need to be prepared to not only share the message of salvation, but share with them the reasons for God's judgment and hold it up as further proof of their need to be saved.

Below is a study of the prophetic signs God gave us as a warning of the approaching end of the age. Many of them are being fulfilled now and many will be fulfilled in the near future. I would encourage you to study prophecy, know what is coming and be prepared to share it with others.



SIX SIGNS GIVEN BY JESUS TO INDICATE HIS COMING AND THE END OF THE AGE
In Matthew24:3 Jesus was asked, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?" Jesus told his apostles to look for the following signs prior to his second coming and the end of the age.



1. FALSE PROPHETS AND CHRISTS

Matthew 24:5 "For many will come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and will mislead many."

Matthew 24:11 "And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many."

In the last several years many have claimed to be the Messiah. Jim Jones and David Koresh are examples of these false christs as well as countless others who are not as newsworthy. These false prophets are a prelude to the ultimate false christ, the antichrist. Many New Age groups, some even NGO's working for the United Nations, are anxiously awaiting the antichrist, preparing the way for his acceptance as the head of the hierarchy of gods and the one who will usher in world peace.

2. WARS

Matthew 24:6 "And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end."



Rumors of wars in all areas of the world now occur frequently thanks to instant media coverage and the availability of a multitude of 24-hour news sources.



Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."



More people have been killed in warfare in this century than at any other time in history. As the death toll rises in the Middle East, more and more countries work feverishly to develop devastating weapons of mass destruction. Add to that the expanding threat of terrorism and unpredictable dictators such as Saddam Hussein, and the potential for the outbreak of war exists in nations, kingdoms and places across the globe.

3. FAMINES

Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."



As white, Christian farmers are driven out of Zimbabwe in increasing numbers, and foreigners move in to replace life-sustaining crops with poppies that now supply 25% of the worlds drugs, famine spreads across the African continent. The undernourished are not limited to Africa, however. A large portion of the worlds 5 billion people suffers from a shortage of food.

4. EARTHQUAKES

Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."



The number and intensity of earthquakes this century is at a level higher than any other time in history. A staggering number of seismic events occur around the world daily. The earthquake seismic monitor IRIS shows all major earthquakes for the last year. Indicated by yellow and red circles, the seismic events of the last 15 days provides strong evidence of the fulfillment of Matthew 24:7 in our day. By contrast, in the years from 1890 to 1900 there was only one major earthquake in the world.

5. TRIBULATIONS

Matthew 24:8-9 "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of my name."



Christians are under attack throughout the world today. In the United States Christians still enjoy freedom to worship God without suffering much more than ridicule, hatred, or discrimination at work and school. However in many other countries such as China, Sudan, Africa, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Russia, and many Muslim nations, Christian suffer much greater persecution and often times death for their faith. During the tribulation this suffering will be worldwide and will continue even to the point of martyrdom. These first 5 signs will increase in intensity and severity as the tribulation approaches, much like the birth pangs or contractions of a pregnant woman worsen as the delivery time approaches.

6. THE GOSPEL WILL BE PREACHED THROUGHOUT THE WORLD

Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come."



This prophecy has already been fulfilled through television, radio, missionaries, the translation of the Bible into many languages, and the internet. People all over the world now hear the message of Christ from missionaries who have the means to travel the globe, and via technology that allows us to communicate with people on the other side of the world right from our own homes, churches and offices.



TWO CHARACTERISTICS OF THE END OF THE AGE FROM THE APOSTLE PAUL
1. GODLESSNESS IN THE LAST DAYS

II Timothy 3:1-5,7 "But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of god; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."



For anyone who has watched television, read a newspaper, lost a retirement to corporate greed and corruption, or just walked outside their front door, it is obvious this prophecy has been fulfilled by our generation. Our leaders are often corrupt; our cities are filled with crime, brutality, and neon signs proclaiming our sinful, godless nature. The New Age Movement brings in increasing numbers of mystics who claim to be the enlightened ones. They are some of the most educated and influential people in our societies, and yet the most lacking in real truth.

2. APOSTASY (FALLING AWAY FROM THE FAITH)

I Timothy 4:1-3 "But the spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons. By means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth."



Churches today are becoming more and more ecumenical, embracing the New Age interfaith agenda, and denying Christ as the only way to salvation. Giving in to the politically correct media and a corrupt society, they have embrace homosexuality as an acceptable alternate lifestyle and preach tolerance and compromise in place of God's truth for the salvation of the world. The environmentalist movement within the New Age movement lures them into a worship of mother earth, belief in past lives, reincarnation, and Karma while demonizing all those who would eat the meat God gave us as nourishment for our bodies.

ELEVEN FULFILLMENTS OF BIBLE PROPHECY REQUIRED FOR THE END OF THE AGE
1. EXISTENCE OF A 200,000,000 MAN ARMY IN THE EAST
Revelation 9:16 "And the number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them."

An army of that size had never existed until China's army reached that number in the 1960's.
2. REDEVELOPMENT OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE (EUROPEAN COMMUNITY)
Daniel 2:32-33 "The head of the statue was made of fine gold, its breast and its arms of silver, its belly and its thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay."

Daniel 2:40-43 "Then there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; inasmuch as iron crushes and shatters all things, so like iron that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break all these in pieces. And in that you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, it will be a divided kingdom; but it will have the toughness of iron, and partly of pottery, so some of the kingdom will be strong and part of it will be brittle. And in that you saw the iron mixed with clay, they will combine with one another in the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, even as iron does not combine with pottery."

The fourth kingdom of iron is the Roman empire according to Daniel's interpretation of King Nebuchadnezzar's dream. The two legs are the division of the Roman empire into an eastern portion called the Byzantine empire which ended in the 1400's and a western portion based in Rome which ended in the 400's. The nations of Europe since the Roman empire dissolved have never adhered or formed one empire but continue as separate nations, however, the European Union now has 15 Member States and is preparing for the accession of 13 eastern and southern European countries.
3. RETURN OF THE ONE PURE LANGUAGE, HEBREW, TO ISRAEL
Zephaniah 3:9 "For then I will return to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent."

Prior to the restoration of Israel in 1948, Hebrew was a dead language. Now Hebrew is spoken throughout Israel.
4. REBUILDING OF THE TEMPLE, RESTORATION OF TEMPLE WORSHIP AND ANIMAL SACRIFICES IN JERUSALEM
For several end time prophecies to be fulfilled, the temple will have to be rebuilt.

Revelation 11:2 "Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the oly city for forty-two months."

Daniel 9:27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolation, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

Daniel 9:26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary."

Some archeologists believe that the temple mount is actually 340 feet south of the Dome of the Rock site, putting the Dome of the Rock within the Court of the Gentiles. This may be the court outside the temple that is left out.

There are many groups already working on preparations for the new temple. The blueprints are already done, the temple garments have been made, and there have already been attempts to lay the cornerstone of the temple. The only thing standing in the way of the construction of the new temple is Islam's third holiest site, the Dome of the Rock and government support for such an undertaking. Some possible scenarios for the rebuilding of the temple are as follows:

1. The persuasion and performing of miracles by the Antichrist and False Prophet convinces the Islamic world to approve the rebuilding.

2. The United Nations will negotiate the rebuilding of the temple following a war with the armies from the North (Russia and Islamic forces). This assumes that the war with the armies from the North is not the battle of Armageddon as some feel and that this attack occurs before the rapture or tribulation period begins. The supernatural destruction of the Russian army and Islamic forces will cause an outpouring of Christian worship and zeal amongst the Jewish people who will reconstruct the temple.

3. It is determined that the site of the first two temples is actually south of the Dome of the Rock, and the court of the gentiles (Dome of the Rock) will be left out of the 3rd temple.

A group in Israel called the Temple Mount Faithful have obtained most of the clothing, instruments and other equipment required for temple worship and are actively preparing for the laying of the third temple's cornerstone.
5. APPEARANCE OF THE RED HEIFER AFTER 2000 YEARS
Numbers 19:2-7 "This is the statute of the law which the Lord has commanded, saying, "Speak to the sons of Israel that they bring you an unblemished red heifer in which is no defect and on which a yoke has never been placed. "You shall give it to Eleazar the priest, and it shall be brought outside the camp and be slaughtered in his presence. Next Eleazar the priest shall take some of its blood with his finger and sprinkle some of its blood toward the front of the tent of meeting seven times. "Then the heifer shall be burned in his sight; its hide and its flesh and its blood, with its refuse, shall be burned. "The priest shall then wash his clothes and bathe his body in water, and afterward come into the camp, but the priest shall be unclean until evening."

A red heifer will be required to be used in the process of purification described in the book of Numbers. In May 1997 the first Red Heifer was born in 2000 years. Another red Heifer was born in Israel in March of 2002.
6. INCREASE IN KNOWLEDGE AND TRAVEL
Daniel 12:4 "But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase."

Billy Graham was quoted as saying, "ninety percent of all the engineers and scientists who have ever lived are alive today." Air travel, space travel, DNA research and human cloning are all examples of the rapid increase in knowledge in our generation.
7. RETURN OF THE ETHIOPIAN JEWS TO ISRAEL
Zephaniah 3:10-11 "From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshipers, My dispersed ones, will bring My offerings. In that day you will feel no shame because of all your deeds by which you have rebelled against Me; For then I will remove from your midst your proud, exulting ones, and you will never again be haughty on My holy mountain."

In 1984, Operation Moses saw the airlift of 15,000 Jews who had already fled to refugee camps in Sudan to escape starvation. In 1991, Operation Solomon flew 20,000 Jews to Israel from Ethiopia itself. A further airlift began in June of 1999, aimed at transporting the last 3,000 members of the Quara Jewish community from northeastern Ethiopia to Israel.
8. THE RISE OF RUSSIA
Ezekiel 38:2,4,8 "Son of man, set your face toward Gog of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him. I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them splendidly attired, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them wielding swords. After many days you will be summoned; in the latter years you will come into the land that is restored from the sword, whose inhabitants have been gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel which had been a continual waste; but its people were brought out from the nations, and they are living securely, all of them."

In order for some end time events to occur Russia will have to be a strong nation with a strong military.
9. RETURN OF RUSSIAN JEWS TO ISRAEL
Jeremiah 23:7-8 "Therefore behold, the days are coming declares the Lord, when they will no longer say, as the Lord lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt, but as the Lord lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I have driven them. Then they will live on their own soil."

In the 1970's and 1980's there was a mass exodus of Russian Jews out of Communist Russia. In 1999 the Associated Press reported a dramatic increase in the number of Jewish immigrants from Russia, bringing the largest number of Russian Jews to Israel since the early 1990's.
10. TECHNOLOGY FOR THE MARK OF THE BEAST
Revelation 13:16-17 "And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name."

On May 10, three members of a family in Florida became the first people to receive the biochip implant. Each device, made of silicon and called a VeriChip, is a small radio transmitter about the size of a piece of rice that is injected under a person's skin. It transmits a unique personal ID number whenever it is within a few feet of a special receiver unit. VeriChip's maker describes it as "a miniaturized, implantable, radio frequency identification device (RFID) that can be used in a variety of security, emergency and healthcare applications."

Is the biochip the mark of the beast to be used by the antichrist? We can't really know. What is significant is that people are being softened to the idea of a mark or an implant as a means of maintaining security, providing medical information, and regulating a more interdependent world. As attitudes change, fears subside, and people are convinced of the need for such a mark, the true mark of the beast will be easily introduced to the world by the antichrist.
11. PLANS FOR THE ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT
The United Nations, World Trade Organization, International Criminal Court, UN peacekeeping/police force, numerous UN NGO's, and other agencies are preliminary steps to the formation of a one world government. We now have the communications technology, transportation, and the pro-globalization media necessary to usher in the one world government headed by the antichrist. The increasing terrorist threat and the middle east conflict will only speed up the formation of this governing body as fear and promises of better security make more people willing to give up their national sovereignty for global governance.
12. INSTANT COMMUNICATION AROUND THE WORLD
Revelation 11:3, 7-10 "And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophecy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth. When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. Those from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their dead bodies for three and a half days, and will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb. And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth."

Television and the 24-hour news networks make it possible for people around the world to see the dead prophets and rejoice at their deaths.

Luke 21:28 "But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

Luke 21:32 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place."

Yes! The End Time is a delusion.

There is no real determinable connection to any of what that author you posted interpretation of and the Biblical passage it reference.

2 Timothy 3:3 - Without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

How in the hell does that equate to: "Homosexuality would be increasingly evident at the end of the age"?

And everything else you posted.

Love the end time sign number 1.

1. False Bible teachers would be money hungry. They would be smooth talkers, have many followers, and slur the Christian faith (2 Peter 2:1-3)

Umm... That would be the author of the Fakemessiah website. That would be the entire religion of Christianity.


I suggest to relax and have some hot steamy sex and you'll then you will experience the End Times.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Yes! The End Time is a delusion. There is no real determinable connection to any of what that author you posted interpretation of and the Biblical passage it reference. 2 Timothy 3:3 - Without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, How in the hell does that equate to: "Homosexuality would be increasingly evident at the end of the age"? And everything else you posted. Love the end time sign number 1. 1. False Bible teachers would be money hungry. They would be smooth talkers, have many followers, and slur the Christian faith (2 Peter 2:1-3) Umm... That would be the author of the Fakemessiah website. That would be the entire religion of Christianity. I suggest to relax and have some hot steamy sex and you'll then you will experience the End Times.

2 Timothy 3:3 - Without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

The without natural affection would probably be the starting place of homosexuality...

Though the word behind "without natural affection" translates more into "heartless" i.e. someone without a conscious... someone who will do anything or commit anything.

Wichita, what else are you an expert on? What degrees and certifications do you hold? Why has an atheist invested so much time in something which has very little effect on his day to day life? There are some positions held by groups in modern life with which I do not agree, not merely because of a religious viewpoint but because the position is obviously foolish and misguided. However, for the most part it does not affect me, so I spend no time crusading against it. When asked, I will give my opinion and explain why I hold it, but I do not rant about it. You, and proff with this post, take a great deal of time to rant about things which have little to no affect on you. If 1985FieroGT and I, among others, take the Bible to have pronounced various prophecies about the end of time, how does that affect you? You have not been prevented from working by your non-belief, have you? You are not going hungry as a result of your philosophical stand, have you? Yet you expend a great deal of time and energy in opposition to a body of thought which does not threaten you in any way. Why?

so, the world ended, and we missed it?

everything listed has "come to pass" - some repeatedly......

maybe something a little less vague....?


and could perhaps some of these "characters" actually agree on anything?

I always assumed Jesus was right and it happened within that generation.

One interesting thought: Those of religious conviction (many various religions) site their religion's holy book. The thing I find interesting is that there is so much arguing about what a particular religion's book should be interpreted as. To me, as a non-religious person, the argument should be more about why a particular religion's book is THE book. Each seems to have a shared strength in its basis to claim reality. Each has its own views on issues.

Therefore, if one chooses religion "A," they can site all day long why theirs is "right" based on the literature supplied by religion "A." Same goes for any religion. My point is, why argue over what a particular book says until there is proof (above the proof level all religions can claim) that it is the "correct" religion.

For now, I will remain an "evangelical agnostic."

quote Originally posted by psychosurfer: One interesting thought: Those of religious conviction (many various religions) site their religion's holy book. The thing I find interesting is that there is so much arguing about what a particular religion's book should be interpreted as. To me, as a non-religious person, the argument should be more about why a particular religion's book is THE book. Each seems to have a shared strength in its basis to claim reality. Each has its own views on issues. Therefore, if one chooses religion "A," they can site all day long why theirs is "right" based on the literature supplied by religion "A." Same goes for any religion. My point is, why argue over what a particular book says until there is proof (above the proof level all religions can claim) that it is the "correct" religion. For now, I will remain an "evangelical agnostic."

c'mon - that was ironed out long time ago, when "the books" were stripped down & translated. removed anything which may raise questions. not a single person here actually knows what was written in the original texts. all they can do is spout off endlessly translated snipets. and, usually, out of context. most of this BS never even it paper until a generation or two AFTER the events. so, they had plenty of time to polish the BS. remove truths. insert controls.
The Book of God is LONG gone. all that remains is the Book of Man.

There are historically documented occurrences of the past 150 years that support Proff's post.

Those historical facts are listed in this website

There is hard evidence which fulfills the prophecies of the Apostle John's Revelation Chapter 6, which are the first 4 of the Seven Seals.

You can criticize a person's belief, however, you cannot criticize historical fact. And, the fact that it was predicted 2000 years ago.

Thanks Proff.

Arn

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: There are historically documented occurrences of the past 150 years that support Proff's post. Those historical facts are listed in this website There is hard evidence which fulfills the prophecies of the Apostle John's Revelation Chapter 6, which are the first 4 of the Seven Seals. You can criticize a person's belief, however, you cannot criticize historical fact. And, the fact that it was predicted 2000 years ago. Thanks Proff. Arn

that stuff has been happening forever, not just the last 150 years.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: that stuff has been happening forever, not just the last 150 years.

Ever see that guy on the television Jack Van Impe?

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: The Book of God is LONG gone. all that remains is the Book of Man.

Yes, man has long had a habit of making God into who he wants Him to be.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: that stuff has been happening forever, not just the last 150 years.

Actually you are partly correct. The 4 Seal prophecy says that 1/4 of the land would be affected by "sword", famine, plagues and attacks by wild animals. The first time that was recorded in history was during the years from 1939 to 1945. We know this because the theatre of war, appart from all the major oceans, covered 25% of the land mass of the earth.

The prophecy did not simply state that war would occur, it quantified it. If you go back through history, you do not see the quantification evident until those years.

This is also incidental to the prophecied re-establishment of Israel, which happened in 1948. The rise of Naziism was the primer that set off the establishment of the State of Israel, which is part of those prophecies regarding "end times" as it is called.

Arn

[This message has been edited by Arns85GT (edited 07-31-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: c'mon - that was ironed out long time ago, when "the books" were stripped down & translated. removed anything which may raise questions. not a single person here actually knows what was written in the original texts. all they can do is spout off endlessly translated snipets. and, usually, out of context. most of this BS never even it paper until a generation or two AFTER the events. so, they had plenty of time to polish the BS. remove truths. insert controls. The Book of God is LONG gone. all that remains is the Book of Man.

That was my point exactly. There is no PROOF which, if any (or even ever was) a book that was "right." The only proof we have has been provided by man. Ever play that game in grade-school where you tell a secret to the fisrt person in a line and they tell the next and so on? By the time you get to the last person, the message is almost always different. And that is from a common group of beliefs (much of the time).

The only religion I support is that of love, treating one another with kindness, understanding and working to improve our world. For me, there is no need to have the threat of religion to maintain a healthy, happy life where interactions with others is done with good at heart and in mind.

Signs, prophecy, wondering when thigns will happen...all that aside.

“So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”
-From Matthew chapter 24.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
-From John Chapter 3.

Two prophetic events, which have not yet happened, and could only happen in today's world, are in the book of Revelation. Revelation 11 tells of two preachers who will be killed and will rise again. The part that could only happen in our time is that the event will be seen around the world as it happens.

We've withessed so many events through live satellite. Here are two that you can watch for.

The Witnesses Killed
Revelation Chapter 11
7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our[c] Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow[d] their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

The Witnesses Resurrected
11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And they[e] heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. 13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Revelation 13 tells us of another prophecy which could only happen due to recent technology (v17). In today's almost cashless society, preventing commerce will not be a difficult task at all.

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those[e] who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or[f] the number of his name.

[This message has been edited by texasfiero (edited 07-31-2012).]

Well there you go. What could be clearer?

Revelation is a bunch of nonsense

it was not written by the same guy as wrote the gospel or the letters of john
the timing simply does not allow it to be a disciple at all


now that fact that it is a pure fiction
does not limit the damage fools who believe can do
the made up religion is mostly harmless
but the followers can have and will be are a real problem

can you say jim jones or david koresh
end times are a real nut form of religions
and deadly dangerous

[This message has been edited by ray b (edited 07-31-2012).]

quote Originally posted by ray b: Revelation is a bunch of nonsense it was not written by the same guy as wrote the gospel or the letters of john the timing simply does not allow it to be a disciple at all now that fact that it is a pure fiction does not limit the damage fools who believe can do the made up religion is mostly harmless but the followers can have and will be are a real problem can you say jim jones or david koresh end times are a real nut form of religions and deadly dangerous

Revelation was probably written during the reign of Domitian (AD 81-96) so ray b knows his bible history. From this and other posts I think he is someone who knows the Bible in depth, maybe even studied to be a priest or minister at one time before becoming disillusioned. But, I could be wrong.

quote Originally posted by ray b: .................. it was not written by the same guy as wrote the gospel or the letters of john ..........................

Based upon.................?

I dont really care who's book/ religion "the end" comes out of----just so long as it hurries up and gets here !!!

quote Originally posted by texasfiero: Based upon.................?

greek writing style word use themes knowledge of jewish law custom geographic locations

the gospel is about 80 to 110 ace
the rev is later about 130 ace

both are tooo late to be written by a disciple

spark1

just read up on it to deprogram relatives who got sucked into the children of god cult
I have never been a believer

Here is when those "books" were 1st written...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...st_Council_of_Nicaea
And countless editings and modifications since.....

The real interesting part is, going back to many pre-xtian civilizations, you will find the substantially same stories just with different names and (far older)dates.

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 08-01-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: so, the world ended, and we missed it?

AGAIN.............
the world is not going to end
its massive changes, the western coastal population in the Canada ,USA and eastern in Australia will feel the most damage
only 10% of the population in either country is expected to survive, the governments are not going to tell any one due to the possible mass panic the information will cause

quote Originally posted by heybjorn: Wichita, what else are you an expert on? What degrees and certifications do you hold? Why has an atheist invested so much time in something which has very little effect on his day to day life? There are some positions held by groups in modern life with which I do not agree, not merely because of a religious viewpoint but because the position is obviously foolish and misguided. However, for the most part it does not affect me, so I spend no time crusading against it. When asked, I will give my opinion and explain why I hold it, but I do not rant about it. You, and proff with this post, take a great deal of time to rant about things which have little to no affect on you. If 1985FieroGT and I, among others, take the Bible to have pronounced various prophecies about the end of time, how does that affect you? You have not been prevented from working by your non-belief, have you? You are not going hungry as a result of your philosophical stand, have you? Yet you expend a great deal of time and energy in opposition to a body of thought which does not threaten you in any way. Why?

Yes, I do hold degrees and certifications. I do consider myself an expert or at least very well versed in some subjects.

The question to ask you is; Why do people feel that challenging somebody's belief or ideology is somehow off-limits just because it is religious based? You and others some how have no problem with people debating and challenging points in political ideology or even on a whole host of other topics. But when it comes to somebody's religion, in particular Christianity, people like you get so upset that one challenges the religion, because you or others hold some value to it and do not want it to be challenged.

Does it affect me in any way? Yes! It affects everybody. It is a battle of ideas that shapes the outcome of civilization and nations. The reason why I challenge the Christian religion, because it is a dangerous ideology.

What is Proff, 2.5 and others who profess they believe the "End Times" are near? They are disseminating fear to everybody else. It is utterly fear mongering to proclaim that everybody will die and will burn in hell if they don't accept Jesus as the true God and the world is going to end. If people who believe this will cause panic or other despicable measures that others may do to take "matters in their own hands". Crazy people believe in this stuff. We don't need gullible and brainwashed people acting crazy because they believe an invisible man in the sky and that it will rain fire & brimstone on others. We don't need a bunch of religious Christian nuts causing chaos and mayhem.

The best way to get to the gullible and brainwashed is to tell them the truth about their ideology and the fallacy of their religion . While most Christians are subservient people who won't do much, there are others who will. Be it killing and bombing medical doctors to other horrific acts. Literally believing in Christianity or the Canonized Bible (a book that a vast majority of Christians say they believe is the word of God, but have never read the whole book), is a serious logical error on their part. If one takes it as a moral teaching and want to apply the Golden Rule to their lives, that that is great. But many Christians take it way beyond that, they actually worship it and in fact they believe they must love their invisible God more than their own family and children. That is why you have people drowning their own children in the name of their Jesus God.

Proff appears to be a good guy, but he also appears to be very unstable and can snap at any time. While the truth of what I say most likely won't reach him and other hardcore Christians because they have put up a wall in their brain to refuse to accept the truth, but there may be others who sit on the fence not knowing the truth about their own religion that can see that Christianity and other religions are all BS. Accept it as a moral teaching, but going beyond that to worship and evangelize others to Christianity is dangerous to human civilization. Anybody would ceased to be a hardcore believer in the Jesus God if they only knew the true history of the Christian movement.

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: The real interesting part is, going back to many pre-xtian civilizations, you will find the substantially same stories just with different names and (far older)dates.

Just curious if you have read any of John Crossan's books regarding biblical accuracy, actual historical accounts during the time of Jesus, etc. He has some works which get pretty in depth regarding the writing styles used in the Gospels and bible, how they are the same types of parables seen in non-cannon/religious writings, and the reasons why.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Yes, I do hold degrees and certifications. I do consider myself an expert or at least very well versed in some subjects.

Excellent. But one more time you did not answer my question, which makes several times times now.

quote Originally posted by heybjorn: Excellent. But one more time you did not answer my question, which makes several times times now.

to be fair, your post had 6 questions......
so, for the spectators - which one you need help with?

I was wonder, why are we atheists even in this thread? It has nothing to do with us. If we want to critique the NT, shouldn't we do it in a separate thread? It seems this one is for those that want to discuss their common convictions.

If the title had the words "atheist", "non-believers" or "losers going to hell and I pray you are destroyed in front of your kids" in it, then it's fair game.

Or is that just crazy talk coming out?

The term "end times" is a Biblical misnomer.

If you take the Bible at face value, we know that after the events in Revelation Chptr 6, the world goes on for at least another 1000 years.

People keep on being born and dieing. There are people who adopt the Christian faith after Jesus returns, and after the current crop of Christians is taken from the earth. It's all right there to read, albeit, with some difficulty to understand in places.

The prophecies made 2000 years ago have not been fulfilled until the past Century, and particularly the reconstitution of Israel.

As I mentioned above, the prophecy that 25% of the land surface would be directly affected by war, (sword), famine, disease (Plague) and wild animal attack is not documented until the 20th Century. Just the same as the reconstitution of Israel.

Moreover, while the relative percentages of these things change or evolve, they still persist. In fact, they expanded. If you look up the WHO or other websites you will see that about 50% of the world is now affected by pandemics and armed conflict. If you examine wild animal attacks you will see them all over the globe. Again, none of these things is new, however the first time it has been documented as cresting 25% was in the 20th Century.

Famine is still a huge problem in differenct places. We just lose track of it.

I wish people would stop using that phrase out of context. Nothing is ending just yet.

If you do not believe in Jesus or the Bible, that is just fine. If it turns out to be true, you can always change your mind. If it isn't true, time will tell.

It is important to remember that when Jesus returns, nothing ends. It just enters a new era.

Arn

well, you must also take into account the "size of the world" in context to when it was written.

the Noah flood, which covered the earth, did not actually cover the whole earth. it covered what was thought to be the whole earth at the time. the "americas" did not exist, in contextual form.

but - Isreal - yeah. that one is pretty solid. now, we just need to find out if they mean Isreal by name, or by nature? Because the Isreal which currently stands is NOT the Isreal of "The Books", is it?

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: The term "end times" is a Biblical misnomer. If you take the Bible at face value, we know that after the events in Revelation Chptr 6, the world goes on for at least another 1000 years. People keep on being born and dieing. There are people who adopt the Christian faith after Jesus returns, and after the current crop of Christians is taken from the earth. It's all right there to read, albeit, with some difficulty to understand in places. The prophecies made 2000 years ago have not been fulfilled until the past Century, and particularly the reconstitution of Israel. As I mentioned above, the prophecy that 25% of the land surface would be directly affected by war, (sword), famine, disease (Plague) and wild animal attack is not documented until the 20th Century. Just the same as the reconstitution of Israel. Moreover, while the relative percentages of these things change or evolve, they still persist. In fact, they expanded. If you look up the WHO or other websites you will see that about 50% of the world is now affected by pandemics and armed conflict. If you examine wild animal attacks you will see them all over the globe. Again, none of these things is new, however the first time it has been documented as cresting 25% was in the 20th Century. Famine is still a huge problem in differenct places. We just lose track of it. I wish people would stop using that phrase out of context. Nothing is ending just yet. If you do not believe in Jesus or the Bible, that is just fine. If it turns out to be true, you can always change your mind. If it isn't true, time will tell. It is important to remember that when Jesus returns, nothing ends. It just enters a new era. Arn

Again, was Jesus right that the events would occur in that generation? I am a literalist so no fudging.

No he wasn't. He was wrong. They didn't come to pass in his time.

"that generation" is not "this generation". The "generation" he was talking about is the generation that founded Israel.

Yes modern Israel does not possess all of the land originally promised to Abraham, but it is nonetheless Israel. Just ask the Arab League

Arn

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: "that generation" is not "this generation". The "generation" he was talking about is the generation that founded Israel. Yes modern Israel does not possess all of the land originally promised to Abraham, but it is nonetheless Israel. Just ask the Arab League Arn

I totally disagree and I believe that is fudging. He is not unclear in any way shape or form. He made specific claims that didn't happen. In fact, that is why all of the interpolation started happening. He made big claims then died unexpectedly. Everyone was going "What just happened? Maybe there is a bigger message here. Everyone to the OT pronto!"

It's about them, not us.

quote Originally posted by heybjorn: Excellent. But one more time you did not answer my question, which makes several times times now.

Which is??

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 08-02-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Which is??

I think he is talking about THESE questions:

(Quoted, but with no quote brackets)


Why has an atheist invested so much time in something which has very little effect on his day to day life? <snip> If 1985FieroGT and I, among others, take the Bible to have pronounced various prophecies about the end of time, how does that affect you? You have not been prevented from working by your non-belief, have you? You are not going hungry as a result of your philosophical stand, have you? Yet you expend a great deal of time and energy in opposition to a body of thought which does not threaten you in any way. Why?

quote Originally posted by tbone42: I think he is talking about THESE questions: (Quoted, but with no quote brackets) Why has an atheist invested so much time in something which has very little effect on his day to day life? <snip> If 1985FieroGT and I, among others, take the Bible to have pronounced various prophecies about the end of time, how does that affect you? You have not been prevented from working by your non-belief, have you? You are not going hungry as a result of your philosophical stand, have you? Yet you expend a great deal of time and energy in opposition to a body of thought which does not threaten you in any way. Why?

because when religous people start ganging up - the nuttier ones in the bunch commit violence on the infidels - and claim it to be gods work