I was never that big a fan of John Lennon but for some reason I keep having "Imagine" running through my head as I read this.

Slightly evolved apes arguing about future events they cannot foresee or comprehend and past events they have no real proof ever existed, all about a being there is nothing more than personal feeling to justify the existence of. Must be Thursday.

**EDIT** the slightly evolved apes comment includes all of us, just to make that clear.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 08-02-2012).]

quote Originally posted by tbone42: I think he is talking about THESE questions: (Quoted, but with no quote brackets) Why has an atheist invested so much time in something which has very little effect on his day to day life? <snip> If 1985FieroGT and I, among others, take the Bible to have pronounced various prophecies about the end of time, how does that affect you? You have not been prevented from working by your non-belief, have you? You are not going hungry as a result of your philosophical stand, have you? Yet you expend a great deal of time and energy in opposition to a body of thought which does not threaten you in any way. Why?

Answered them in detail.

I don't have much to say about this thread. But if anyone is interested in a serious response, in reference to the Bible verse stating "this generation", context is very important in the Bible. I find this not confusing:

"The key to understanding what Jesus means is the context; that is, we must understand the verses that are surrounding verse 34, but especially the verses prior to it. In Matthew 24:4-31, Jesus is speaking of future events. The generation of people living when those events occur is the generation that Jesus speaks of "not passing" until He returns. Jesus had already told those living during His earthly ministry that the kingdom had been taken from them (Matthew 21:43). Therefore, it is imperative that Matthew 24-25 be seen as speaking of a future time. The word “generation” refers to the people alive in the future when the events of Matthew 24-25 will occur."

quote Originally posted by 2.5: I don't have much to say about this thread. But if anyone is interested in a serious response, in reference to the Bible verse stating "this generation", context is very important in the Bible. I find this not confusing: "The key to understanding what Jesus means is the context; that is, we must understand the verses that are surrounding verse 34, but especially the verses prior to it. In Matthew 24:4-31, Jesus is speaking of future events. The generation of people living when those events occur is the generation that Jesus speaks of "not passing" until He returns. Jesus had already told those living during His earthly ministry that the kingdom had been taken from them (Matthew 21:43). Therefore, it is imperative that Matthew 24-25 be seen as speaking of a future time. The word “generation” refers to the people alive in the future when the events of Matthew 24-25 will occur."

What about those who have already died? Purgatory?

The folks who are practicing Roman Catholics believe in purgatory.

The Protestants don't. What Jesus said about a dead man was that he was sleeping.

He then brought him back to life.

Once you are dead, you have only the final judgement to look forward to. Before you are dead, the options are open.

Hope this helps.

Arn

quote Originally posted by 2.5: I don't have much to say about this thread. But if anyone is interested in a serious response, in reference to the Bible verse stating "this generation", context is very important in the Bible. I find this not confusing: "The key to understanding what Jesus means is the context; that is, we must understand the verses that are surrounding verse 34, but especially the verses prior to it. In Matthew 24:4-31, Jesus is speaking of future events. The generation of people living when those events occur is the generation that Jesus speaks of "not passing" until He returns. Jesus had already told those living during His earthly ministry that the kingdom had been taken from them (Matthew 21:43). Therefore, it is imperative that Matthew 24-25 be seen as speaking of a future time. The word “generation” refers to the people alive in the future when the events of Matthew 24-25 will occur."

Yes, this interpretation of the word "this" would explain away the error. He could be speaking of the future generations that will deal with it. But that generation could also be only one removed.

Another explanation is it's a look back at events of 65-70CE (which were very bad) and the author of Mark added them as a look back (and put some words in Jesus's mouth.)

It would be sooooo awesome to have some of the original documents and more of Peter's writings since he was there. The author of Mark wasn't and he probably wasn't even in the area or familiar with it. Maybe he was quoting Peter or someone else. Hard to say. Mark is an excellent study and very fascinating at many levels.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: Slightly evolved apes arguing about future events they cannot foresee or comprehend and past events they have no real proof ever existed, all about a being there is nothing more than personal feeling to justify the existence of. Must be Thursday. **EDIT** the slightly evolved apes comment includes all of us, just to make that clear.

I have repeatedly found that The Guide gives a far more logical and sensible outlook on Life, the Universe and everything than any mainstream religion. I call for a new religion following the writings of Douglas Adams. Can't be any less valid than Scientology!!

Since we're quoting the bible, I grabbed a few of my favorites.

Exodus 35:2 - For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 - ¹⁸ If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: ¹⁹ Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; ²⁰ And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. ²¹ And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Leviticus 20:13 - If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Deuteronomy 22:20-21 ²⁰ If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, ²¹ she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

Exodus 21:20-21 ²⁰ Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, ²¹ but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

1 Peter 2:18 - You who are slaves must accept the authority of your masters with all respect. Do what they tell you--not only if they are kind and reasonable, but even if they are cruel.

quote Originally posted by proff: ... only 10% of the population ... is expected to survive, the governments are not going to tell any one due to the possible mass panic the information will cause

... as opposed to the serenity that is certain to ensue when people notice that 90% of their neighbors and family are dying.

Okay My opinion.

The God presented throughout the KJV new testament. Is presented as a loving father in which most judgements on his own children came in the form of consequence resulting from decisions that were counter to God's teachings (history, facts, natural laws, and trial and error). My faith from what I have read (KJV) is as follows. God can not bless me while I am in sin (error) and any gain from such, will likely be spent on the consequences. God is continually calling us to repent and return to a path of righteousness (acting in ignorance or rebellion to what you know to be right). I think the last and final decision will come when you are standing on the other side of this life. I believe we will see with our own eyes, the truth as it really is and in that moment will make a choice as to enter or turn away. I believe the final judgement will be yours on yourself.

Imagine, that in all your belief/faith you had made choices that followed your convictions. That people around you listened to what you believed and found themselves in agreement. Imagine. your counsel (testimony) guiding them even on a voluntary basis to a lifelong journey of bad decisions based on a misguided faith despite it's good intentions. The day has come, you are standing there and you can see the totality of your life and the lives you influenced. Will you be able to look at the truth as it really is and be able to put aside your own self-condemnation long enough to except an offer to enter, if offered to you - many would not because they can't except forgiveness as they believe their actions to be unforgivable.

Imagine, you have lived the most righteous life you could imagine. You gave your time, fortunes and honor to a lifestyle that could only be called charitable and sacrificial. Suddenly you find yourself on the other side of this existence faced with a record that is deemed a waste. that all you gave and held true was incorrect. would you except it or hold your ground a rebuke the evil before you. If you think your faith is superior and perfect you may have trouble excepting that your faith was anything less than a stellar example of righteousness that should be held up for those beneath you to model. These people would think they have found hell and reject the truth only because they are so perfect that anyone who would say different must be less than perfect and therefor a deceiver.

Imagine, A child who thought, "they just don't want me to be happy". That same child is told to follow the rules or get out. The usual story follows. child moves out asap and swears "I'll show you". Weeks go by yielding the joy of self rule. months go by and self rule becomes costly enough to encourage them to seek work to fund "I'll show you". Years go by and some of the youthful ignorance has warn away and even though they have had to except some of societies rules, the youthful heart persists in rebellion to prove their parents wrong. Decades go by and if they have not excepted the fact that their parents were (for the most part) right, the final exchange will come not in a reconcile of facts or truth, just and extended middle finger and the words "screw you". This is many, many who will see the truth as it really is and feel a profound disdain and despise reality so much that even a Merciful, Loving and Forgiving God will be honored with the an extended middle finger and the words "screw you".

Imagine, The type of person, who could stand before a God who meets all expectations of the title, and say "holy crap what have I done, forgive me". This is probably the person who is likely to hear the response "Son, if everyone was a bad as you, this place would be so packed with a**holes I'd have to wonder how I F*d Up". This person may just be humble enough to pass through that narrow portal of acceptance that filters out all the other BS.


I sit here making lite of the faith I have only to say that I know that I am unworthy, But thank God It's not my value, glory, righteousness, merit, ect that will get in. What I believe is, What I Believe. As for yours, That is between you and the God you measure yourself by. My God is perfect and By comparison, only his Christ can measure up in my place. I will go humble and trust that God guide me as he always has.


the thread just seemed appropriate for me to share. Having said that, I will return to politics and hopefully I be able to contribute something fiero related one day. Which is kinda of hard to do when your surrounded by members who know more about the car than half the people who worked on the assembly line.

quote Originally posted by NoMoreRicers: Since we're quoting the bible, I grabbed a few of my favorites. .

I was quoting a verses that referenced what the thread was about.

You quote old laws.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 10-30-2012).]

quote Originally posted by NoMoreRicers: Since we're quoting the bible, I grabbed a few of my favorites.

The Pentateuch must be the most read books of the Bible.
You might as well quote 16th century law about owning slaves as proof of modern day America's barbarism.

The irony is it does more to show cause for Christianity than against and you don't even know why.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: The Pentateuch must be the most read books of the Bible. You might as well quote 16th century law about owning slaves as proof of modern day America's barbarism. The irony is it does more to show cause for Christianity than against and you don't even know why.

The irony is Matthew 5:17-18 clearly shows that Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament and that the Old Testament laws are binding on everyone forever.

This discussion is nonsense however. A fiction novel can't prove or disprove the existence of something. I am more interested in consciousness without matter.

Existence is an objective state. It's defined as: "that which is composed of matter or energy." Is the christian god subject to physical laws? If yes, then he must be composed of either matter or energy. If god's are not composed of matter nor energy, then by definition god doesn't exist. If god's are subject to physical laws, then physical evidence is the only way that we can ascertain that they exist. Physical evidence might be produced with a tool such as a spectrograph or an oscilloscope.

quote Originally posted by NoMoreRicers: The irony is Matthew 5:17-18 clearly shows that Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament and that the Old Testament laws are binding on everyone forever.

Fail. You obviously have no clue what is meant by "the Law" or "until everything is accomplished" in that passage.
Really, if you want to try and use Bible verses to prove a point, you need to actually know what they're saying.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Fail. You obviously have no clue what is meant by "the Law" or "until everything is accomplished" in that passage. Really, if you want to try and use Bible verses to prove a point, you need to actually know what they're saying.

Fail. "The Law," means the same thing it meant every other time he used the phrase, "The law and the prophets." He is referring to the Laws of the Old Testament. The 'Law' was the Torah - the 5 books of Moses. Compare Matthew 5:17 with Matthew 7:12, Luke 16:16-17 and Romans 3:21. Jesus said the laws of the Old Testament needed to be followed until heaven and earth were gone.

quote Originally posted by NoMoreRicers: The irony is Matthew 5:17-18 clearly shows that Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament and that the Old Testament laws are binding on everyone forever. This discussion is nonsense however. A fiction novel can't prove or disprove the existence of something. I am more interested in consciousness without matter. Existence is an objective state. It's defined as: "that which is composed of matter or energy." Is the christian god subject to physical laws? If yes, then he must be composed of either matter or energy. If god's are not composed of matter nor energy, then by definition god doesn't exist. If god's are subject to physical laws, then physical evidence is the only way that we can ascertain that they exist. Physical evidence might be produced with a tool such as a spectrograph or an oscilloscope.

The irony truly is that it is beyond the understanding of an amazing amount of people that before the creation of the universe, there was nothing. No matter, no energy, no dimension, no time, no physical laws because there were no physical characteristics of any kind. No existence. Nothing. Nothing beyond what we can imagine as nothing. Yet, many will freely say that they believe that suddenly, without provocation, reason or cause of any kind, something appeared and exploded and created all these things. A "big bang."

But not God.

And to disprove God, they pull out of um, a hat... a bunch of laws written about 3500 years ago for the Jewish people - which is likely not them. The reason that Jesus did not distance Himself from them was that He fulfilled them, and died to atone for those of us who didn't follow them. Choose to accept or not. That's between you and Him.

On a couple of other points:

The dead are "asleep" by our point of view. Hebrews 9:27a "And just as people are appointed to die once, and then to face judgment..." from our own perspective, we die and are immediately taken out of time to the Judgement seat. However, the rest of the world is still "trapped" in time, and so the body still exists on that plane.

The "Telephone Game" analogy doesn't work, because our modern Bibles are not translations of translations of translations of translations. The Bible has more documentary base than any other book of antiquity - both in quantity and in proximity to the original. More and earlier than Plato's Republic, Beowulf, or any other contemporary. By studying, comparing and contrasting these books and fragments against each other, we can put a better likeness of the original with greater confidence than any other ancient text.

quote Originally posted by NoMoreRicers: Fail. "The Law," means the same thing it meant every other time he used the phrase, "The law and the prophets." He is referring to the Laws of the Old Testament. The 'Law' was the Torah - the 5 books of Moses. Compare Matthew 5:17 with Matthew 7:12, Luke 16:16-17 and Romans 3:21. Jesus said the laws of the Old Testament needed to be followed until heaven and earth were gone.

And who did "The Law" apply to?

This might be more your speed.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 10-31-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: The irony truly is that it is beyond the understanding of an amazing amount of people that before the creation of the universe, there was nothing. No matter, no energy, no dimension, no time, no physical laws because there were no physical characteristics of any kind. No existence. Nothing. Nothing beyond what we can imagine as nothing. Yet, many will freely say that they believe that suddenly, without provocation, reason or cause of any kind, something appeared and exploded and created all these things. A "big bang." But not God. And to disprove God, they pull out of um, a hat... a bunch of laws written about 3500 years ago for the Jewish people - which is likely not them. The reason that Jesus did not distance Himself from them was that He fulfilled them, and died to atone for those of us who didn't follow them. Choose to accept or not. That's between you and Him. On a couple of other points: The dead are "asleep" by our point of view. Hebrews 9:27a "And just as people are appointed to die once, and then to face judgment..." from our own perspective, we die and are immediately taken out of time to the Judgement seat. However, the rest of the world is still "trapped" in time, and so the body still exists on that plane. The "Telephone Game" analogy doesn't work, because our modern Bibles are not translations of translations of translations of translations. The Bible has more documentary base than any other book of antiquity - both in quantity and in proximity to the original. More and earlier than Plato's Republic, Beowulf, or any other contemporary. By studying, comparing and contrasting these books and fragments against each other, we can put a better likeness of the original with greater confidence than any other ancient text.

in the beginning
a bang happened
before that we can know nothing
as the bang both created modern space/time
and blew away what ever was before

btw 13.7 billion years ago not 6000

paul/saul invented your religion
it is an odd mix of other far older belief and legends
grafted on to jewish post temple religion
and the JC cult
warped in to something paul could push
without upsetting the romans too much

but in addition to pauls cult and the jewish JC cult
who split in the first christian schism
there also sprang up many other cults
coptic gnostic arian two or three mana-something other cults
and that is just the bigger early schisms

bibles yes they all had bibles
not the same bible
with edited long and short endings
some use some books and not others
same today
your bible is not the same as the catholic's or the greeks

actually the jews version of the old ''T'' is better recorded
in two versions the greek and hebrew
plus the dead sea scrolls
but most christians base their old ''T'' on the greek version
not the hebrew/deadsea version the original version

no authors are known nor is any book dated
all are mislabeled and claimed to be far older then they are
I have a 4 way bible and every page has differences side by side
there is also a red/pink/gray/black critical version
it rates each word a original, maybe, maybe not and no way original
perhaps something more christians should read

quote Originally posted by ray b: in the beginning a bang happened before that we can know nothing as the bang both created modern space/time and blew away what ever was before btw 13.7 billion years ago not 6000

According to your religion.

BTW, your holy books have been revised over many fewer years of existence and still don't agree with each other.

quote paul/saul invented your religion it is an odd mix of other far older belief and legends grafted on to jewish post temple religion and the JC cult warped in to something paul could push without upsetting the romans too much

Judaism existed at least 1500 years before Christ - at least in the form of the Children of Israel - and that is 500 - 600 years removed from Abraham. Saul the Pharisee made a complete about face; from prosecutor to apologist. The "Jew's Jew" became an Apostle. He must have had an aneurism or something.

quote but in addition to pauls cult and the jewish JC cult who split in the first christian schism there also sprang up many other cults coptic gnostic arian two or three mana-something other cults and that is just the bigger early schisms

Do you counterfeit the real or the fake? Of course there were people who wanted (and still want to) do it their own way. A counterfeit $100 bill is not worth what a real one is.

quote bibles yes they all had bibles not the same bible with edited long and short endings some use some books and not others same today your bible is not the same as the catholic's or the greeks actually the jews version of the old ''T'' is better recorded in two versions the greek and hebrew plus the dead sea scrolls but most christians base their old ''T'' on the greek version not the hebrew/deadsea version the original version

Again, the proofs are greater than any other book of antiquity. Throw this one away and you have to throw them all away. Even Shakespeare.

quote no authors are known nor is any book dated all are mislabeled and claimed to be far older then they are I have a 4 way bible and every page has differences side by side there is also a red/pink/gray/black critical version it rates each word a original, maybe, maybe not and no way original perhaps something more christians should read

By what scholarship? Many books can be dated specifically to events (the siege of Jerusalem in 597BC) or within reasonable parameters (6th Century BC for Daniel, as he accurately describes events that take place during the reign of Antiochus IV Epiphanes). Secular scholars argue for its writing during the Maccabean period (2d Century BC), but there are internal proofs that refute that, though the Crucifixion is still predicted accurately.

A "four way" Bible? Aside from the obvious jokes, I assume that you mean Hebrew/Greek/Latin/English. I was not aware that you read Hebrew, Greek and Latin fluently.

The OT was written entirely in Hebrew and Aramaic, so that is your basis for translation. Same with the Greek NT. Therefore, the Latin and English are to be treated equally, as they are the means by which the originals are brought to understanding to those who don't speak Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek. Our English Bibles (Mine, at least) are translated from the original languages, not from Latin, nor from the Greek translation of the Hebrew.

And yes, the Catholic Bible differs from mine in the addition of the Apocrypha. These books were long not canonical to the Jewish Bible (The OT), and, therefore, not canonical to the Protestant Reformers. The lack of these don't compromise my faith, in that the argument for Life, the Law, the Atonement and the coming Judgement are self contained in the OT/NT. That I shall find myself reading the Apocrypha at some time in my life is nearly assured, however, when I do get to Judgement (with the rest of the world), I'm certain that I won't be castigated if I didn't.

BS the name JESUS is a mistranslation from greek to latin

mary called her son joshua not jesus

in 1500 bce there was no hebrew or even an alphabet to write with

and the holy land was an egyptian ruled area
sorry but real history is NOT bible based

Danial is very late as it uses greek based words
unknown before al the great in the middle eastern area

------------------
Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

Joshua \j(o)-shua\ as a boy's name is pronounced JOSH-yoo-ah. It is of Hebrew origin, and the meaning of Joshua is "Jehovah is salvation".


Jesus \j(e)-sus\ as a boy's name is pronounced JEE-zus, hay-SOOS. It is of Hebrew origin, and the meaning of Jesus is "the Lord is salvation". Short form of Joshua, from the Hebrew name Jehoshua.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 11-01-2012).]

There are no known OT documents before 250 BCE. None. Before this there are no documents found that share common wording with any OT content. None. No documents reference earlier documents, quote from them or share the same content. There are stories that share some common points and that is all.

There are no known NT documents before ~120 CE (P52 John fragment of four verses.)

In both cases, the dates of the original "content" can be pushed back but there are no original documents that are contemporaneity with their content. Sure, Mark might have been written around 60 CE but there are no original documents from 60 CE. What we have are copies from far later and their content varies. There is no one "correct" version of most of the NT books. At best we can assume is the older it is, the more accurate it "might" be but we can't be sure we don't just have the odd version. In all cases we are dependent on copies that are at least 100 years newer (and more) than their originals. We don't have even a remotely complete NT original before about 1000 CE. We have some chunks, but they vary in content too.

Next, take all of the letters and commentaries people wrote about the OT and NT documents 100+ years later and they are all over the map in what the original content was. Many of the commentaries and letters are talking about an earlier commentary or letter, not the original document - they never had an original copy in their hands. They also talk about a lot of books and letters we don't have today. It would be great to have them. We don't.

One can only conclude that the existing texts we use to define the OT and NT are not the original text of those books and various version existed (with inserted and deleted content that substantially affects the perspective and tone.)

Pick whatever version suits your needs. There are plenty to chose from. On the other hand, I do expect one to pick only after studying and not just because someone demanded that they pick the version shoved in their face.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 11-01-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: And to disprove God, they pull out of um, a hat... a bunch of laws written about 3500 years ago for the Jewish people - which is likely not them. The reason that Jesus did not distance Himself from them was that He fulfilled them, and died to atone for those of us who didn't follow them. Choose to accept or not. That's between you and Him.

Trying to prove or disprove the existence of god using the bible is rediculous. That's like trying to prove or disprove the existence of Superman using a comic book. The burden of proof is on the theist not the atheist.

So, I will ask again: Is god subject to physical laws?

quote Originally posted by NoMoreRicers: So, I will ask again: Is god subject to physical laws?

Thats kind of funny.

quote Originally posted by NoMoreRicers: So, I will ask again: Is god subject to physical laws?

God created the physical laws. They are subject to Him.

Ditto the burden of proof of the "big bang" is on the atheist to prove.

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: God created the physical laws. They are subject to Him. Ditto the burden of proof of the "big bang" is on the atheist to prove.

no men create gods every culture creates different ones

the only times gods are the same they are stolen

like the romans stealing the greek gods
or the christian and moslems stealing the jews god

there never has been identical gods created with out cultureal contact


now if there was A GOD why can't he tell every culture I AM


the simple fact is that never happens
and that is the best proof of no god or gods


the universe really does not care what you believe

the physicial laws are not made by gods or men

the best we can do is try to understand how things work
but that is something the christian church has a long history of apposing
physical law is truth not based on beliefs

quote Originally posted by NoMoreRicers: So, I will ask again: Is god subject to physical laws?

Even an atheist should be able to answer this one.
"Is God subject to physical laws?"

- God can only be subject to physical laws if God exists. If God doesn't exist, God is not subject to physical laws.
- If you accept that God exists, then that accepts the Biblical account of God's existence and the creation of the universe.
- For God to have created the universe, which includes all of it's physical laws, He would have to exist before and outside the universe and therefore outside of the physical laws of the universe.
∴ God is not subject to physical laws.

God still owes me $5 bucks.
We had a bet.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: - God can only be subject to physical laws if God exists. If God doesn't exist, God is not subject to physical laws. ∴ God is not subject to physical laws.

I think you proved my point?

Edit- I did take your quote out of context. Here is the full quote:

quote Originally posted by Formula88: - God can only be subject to physical laws if God exists. If God doesn't exist, God is not subject to physical laws. - If you accept that God exists, then that accepts the Biblical account of God's existence and the creation of the universe. - For God to have created the universe, which includes all of it's physical laws, He would have to exist before and outside the universe and therefore outside of the physical laws of the universe. ∴ God is not subject to physical laws.

[This message has been edited by NoMoreRicers (edited 11-02-2012).]

quote Originally posted by ray b: no men create gods every culture creates different ones the only times gods are the same they are stolen like the romans stealing the greek gods or the christian and moslems stealing the jews god there never has been identical gods created with out cultureal contact

Humm what about serpent worship? That one's world wide
What's that thing in your avatar?

I would so get speed banned if I interjected in this thread...lol

quote Originally posted by Pappy: Humm what about serpent worship? That one's world wide What's that thing in your avatar?

feathered serpents is mostly centrial american aztex-mayan
and stolen gods by next door guys
gadston flag with up date for 21st century threat to our freedoms
by the tealy-banners

Ok Ray maybe you need a little help
I apologize to any of you if I got one/some incorrect because their are just so many Serpent Gods
Many are not included because it could take days to compile them - Please feel free to add to the list tho
Ancient Europe had tons of em

The oldest known carved religious artifact - Python Stone - Kalahari Africa


India

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C4%81ga

Greece


China


Egypt


Adams County Ohio


Aboriginal Rainbow Serpent


And the ever popular serpent from the garden of eden


Ray the one you are worshiping is none other than an American Rattle Snake
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag

[This message has been edited by Pappy (edited 11-03-2012).]

I can't see a snake in the "python stone"

Yeah it's pretty old and weathered

The pic above is kind of a 3/4 view with the head closest to the viewer and on the left


The below pic is more of a side view
Also has carvings along it's side

[This message has been edited by Pappy (edited 11-03-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: God still owes me $5 bucks. We had a bet.

Did He accept the bet?