The lack of medical coverage in America is a serious problem as approximately 50 million people were uninsured all through 2010.
The lack of medical insurance has had grave consequences. In 2010 alone, 26,100 people died because they had no health insurance — that amounts to 502 preventable deaths a week.

10. Nevada
> Excess deaths from a lack of insurance (per 100,000): 11.83
> Pct. of population uninsured: 22.6% (2nd highest)
> Pct. living below the poverty line: 14.9% (tied for 23rd highest)
> Life expectancy at birth: 77.59 years (14th lowest)

Nearly 23% of Nevadans lack health insurance, the second-highest proportion of all the states in the country. At the same time, the state also has comparatively few people who are eligible for either Medicare (13.44%) or Medicaid (11%). Few states spend less per capita on health care than Nevada, which spent $5
,735 per person in 2009. The state also had the nation’s highest average unemployment rate in 2010 at 13.7%, which may help contribute to residents’ inability to obtain insurance.

9. Georgia
> Excess deaths from a lack of insurance (per 100,000): 11.95
> Pct. of population uninsured: 19.7% (5th highest)
> Pct. living below the poverty line: 17.9% (tied for 9th highest)
> Life expectancy at birth: 77.09 years (10th lowest)

With a 10.2% unemployment rate in 2010 and 17.9% of residents living below the poverty line, many Georgians simply cannot afford health care. Additionally, the state of Georgia spent just $5,467 on health care in 2009, the third-lowest figure among all states that year. The state’s ability to provide for its residents is limited. Just 16% of Georgians were in the state Medicaid program in 2010, far lower than many other states.

8. Oklahoma
> Excess deaths from a lack of insurance (per 100,000): 12.02
> Pct. of population uninsured: 18.9% (7th highest)
> Pct. living below the poverty line: 16.9% (14th highest)
> Life expectancy at birth: 75.6 years (5th lowest)

It can hardly be said that Oklahomans are healthy. Among all states, Oklahoma has the third-highest percentage of adults who smoke, the sixth-highest rate of heart disease death, the seventh-highest obesity rate and a lower proportion of adults who consume fruit twice a day than any other state. Making matters worse, Oklahoma spends just over $6,500 per capita on health care — one of the lowest amounts in the United States. Relatively few residents have employer-based health coverage, and many residents cannot otherwise afford private insurance because the median household income in the state is just $42,072 — one of the lowest figures in the country.

7. West Virginia
> Excess deaths from a lack of insurance (per 100,000): 12.03
> Pct. of population uninsured: 14.6% (24th highest)
> Pct. living below the poverty line: 18.1% (8th highest)
> Life expectancy at birth: 75.16 years (2nd lowest)

West Virginia residents have the second-shortest life expectancy among all 50 states. Contributing to shorter life spans are the 26.8% of West Virginians who smoke, a higher rate than in any other state. Additionally, the Mountain State has some of the highest rates of heart disease deaths, adult obesity and diabetes in the U.S. Perhaps indicative of the cost of such poor health factors is that there are more prescription drugs filled per capita in West Virginia than in any other state.

6. Florida
> Excess deaths from a lack of insurance (per 100,000): 12.06
> Pct. of population uninsured: 21.3% (3rd highest)
> Pct. living below the poverty line: 16.5% (16th highest)
> Life expectancy at birth: 79.7 years (12th highest)

The sheer number of excess deaths from a lack of insurance in Florida is staggering: 12,336 from 2005 through 2010. The driving factor for this imposing total is that 21.3% of the population is uninsured — the third-highest rate among all states. Floridians may have difficulty affording health insurance — median income was just $44,400 in 2010. Meanwhile, only 45.7% of residents have employer-based health insurance, while just 15.6% of residents received Medicaid benefits. Both of these rates are among the lowest in the country.

5. New Mexico
> Excess deaths from a lack of insurance (per 100,000): 12.15
> Pct. of population uninsured: 19.6% (6th highest)
> Pct. living below the poverty line: 20.4% (tied for the highest)
> Life expectancy at birth: 78.21 years (20th lowest)

New Mexico has a fairly healthy population, with relatively low heart disease and obesity rates. However, just 55.8% of residents have private health insurance — the lowest rate of any state in the country. One possible reason is that few employers provide insurance — just 45.6% of the population has employer-b
ased health coverage. The relative poverty of the state also means many residents cannot afford medical coverage. The median income in the state was just above $42,000 in 2010, far below the national median of about $50,000, while 20.4% of people live below the poverty line — the highest rate in the country.

4. South Carolina
> Excess deaths from a lack of insurance (per 100,000): 13.48
> Pct. of population uninsured: 17.5% (tied for 12th highest)
> Pct. living below the poverty line: 18.2% (7th highest)
> Life expectancy at birth: 76.57 years (9th lowest)

South Carolina is not a particularly healthy state: 67.4% of the state’s residents are either overweight or obese, just 23.3% eat proper amounts of fruit, only 22.9% eat proper amounts of vegetables and 10.7% are diabetic. All of these are among the highest rates in the country. Meanwhile, much of the cost of health care falls to private individuals. The state spends about $6,300 per person on health care in 2009, among the lowest levels, and just 51.9% of residents have employer-based health coverage. Unfortunately, South Carolinians have trouble affording insurance on their own: median income was just $42,000 in 2010, significantly lower than the $50,000 national average, 18.2% of residents live below the poverty line and the cost of health care is higher than many states.

3. Arkansas
> Excess deaths from a lack of insurance (per 100,000): 13.49
> Pct. of population uninsured: 17.5% (tied for 12th highest)
> Pct. living below the poverty line: 18.8% (5th highest)
> Life expectancy at birth: 76.09 years (6th lowest)

According to the Council for Community and Economic Research’s ACCRA Cost of Living Index, Arkansas had the second-lowest cost of health care in the United States. However, with 18.8% of the population living below the poverty line and a median annual household income of just $38,307 — both among the lowest figures for any state — many Arkansans cannot afford private health coverage. As a result, just 58.78% of the population has private insurance, the sixth-lowest figure in the country.

2. Louisiana
> Excess deaths from a lack of insurance (per 100,000): 14.94
> Pct. of population uninsured: 17.8% (10th highest)
> Pct. living below the poverty line: 18.7% (6th highest)
> Life expectancy at birth: 75.39 years (4th lowest)

Louisiana has one of the lowest life expectancies at birth in the U.S. at 75.4 years. Though much of this certainly can be attributed to poor health choices — the state has a higher number of smokers and its residents eat comparatively little fruit or vegetables — the inability of many residents to receive proper care due to lack of insurance is also a contributing factor. In Louisiana, 17.8% of the population goes without health insurance, despite the fact that 21.9% of the population qualifies for Medicaid — the fifth-highest proportion among all 50 states. The high uninsurance rate is partly due to the relative economic disadvantage of the state’s residents. With 18.7% of residents living below the poverty line — the sixth-highest rate in the nation — and a median income that is more than $5,000 lower than the U.S. average, just 58.39% of the population have private insurance. That is the fourth-lowest such rate in the nation.

1. Mississippi
> Excess deaths from a lack of insurance (per 100,000): 15.82
> Pct. of population uninsured: 18.2% (9th highest)
> Pct. living below the poverty line: 22.4% (tied for the highest)
> Life expectancy at birth: 74.81 years (The lowest)

Many residents of Mississippi cannot afford insurance: the state has lowest median income in the nation and the highest percentage of residents living below the poverty line. As a result, Mississippi has the second-lowest percentage of residents with private health insurance coverage, at 56.49%. Exacerbating the problem, residents are especially unhealthy. Among all states, Mississippi has the second-highest obesity rate, the second-highest percentage of adults with diabetes and the fifth-highest percentage of adult smokers in the nation. Likely the result of both high uninsurance rates and poor personal health, Mississippi is the only state where life expectancy was below 75 years at birth in 2010. Mississippi’s excess death rate was the highest among all states and twice that of 28 states in 2010.

http://247wallst.com/2012/0...r-health-coverage/2/

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 07-01-2012).]

We should ask frontal lobe if he can place "Lack of Insurance" on a death certificate.

I would be interested in knowing how many of those falling under "lack of insurance" have high speed internet, a yardfull of big boy toys, piles and piles of video games, latest and greatest cell phones, drug users, drink alcohol on a regular basis, can "afford" cigarettes, and/or make more $$/year than I ever did in my working life.

Just curious, as it's been my experience in talking to many people over the decades, that it isn't really true that they "can't afford" health/home/life insurance--or even required auto insurance------it's that they can't afford it and still maintain the life style to which they have become accustomed or have set for themselves. Their priorities too often are the things in life that they do every day or week that make them happy. And, they aren't shy about saying that either. Truly poor and or indigent excepted.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 07-01-2012).]

Id be curious to know how they define cause of death as lack of insurance.This article seems to me to draw a lot of conclusions without giving much of the information or methodologies that lead them to that conclusion.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I would be interested in knowing how many of those falling under "lack of insurance" have high speed internet, a yardfull of big boy toys, piles and piles of video games, latest and greatest cell phones, drug users, drink alcohol on a regular basis, can "afford" cigarettes, and/or make more $$/year than I ever did in my working life. Just curious, as it's been my experience in talking to many people over the decades, that it isn't really true that they "can't afford" health/home/life insurance--or even required auto insurance------it's that they can't afford it and still maintain the life style to which they have become accustomed or have set for themselves. Their priorities too often are the things in life that they do every day or week that make them happy. And, they aren't shy about saying that either. Truly poor and or indigent excepted.

Interesting points.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Just curious, as it's been my experience in talking to many people over the decades, that it isn't really true that they "can't afford" health/home/life insurance--or even required auto insurance------it's that they can't afford it and still maintain the life style to which they have become accustomed or have set for themselves.

One example I know of is a client of ours who spends on personal training for herself ($89 per 60 min. session) while she has no health insurance for her two children or herself...

For me, that's a reason to support compulsory health insurance.

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 07-01-2012).]

I be curious to know how obese they are in those states compared to the others.

I have a problem with the premise that lack of health coverage in the US is a serious problem. It isn't. Nobody is turned away from the ER if they need medical help. The problem is forcing people to pay for everyone else's medical expenses. With all the talk about "fairness", how is it fair for someone like me who doesn't get sick and doesn't go to the hospital for the sniffles to be forced to pay for someone who does? I live my life fairly healthfully.....I don't smoke, I don't drink (well, once in a blue moon maybe), I've never done drugs, I don't engage in any high risk activities, etc. so why should I be forced to pay into a system that I will never use?

I do not have health insurance and do not want or need it. If I fall ill then I will pay for it out of my pocket.....no matter how difficult that may be I will do it this way because (at least for me personally) the cost/benefit analysis is in my favor. If I factor in what health insurance coverage would have cost me over the past 20 years versus what I actually had to spend on health care I am waaaaay ahead of the curve. I would have wasted a ton of money on health insurance that I would have never used. This is precisely what proponents of a single payer system want.......people like me who will bear the burden of paying for everyone else.

quote Originally posted by mrfiero: I have a problem with the premise that lack of health coverage in the US is a serious problem. It isn't. Nobody is turned away from the ER if they need medical help.

That's probably the most expensive way of treating illnesses.

quote Originally posted by mrfiero: I live my life fairly healthfully.....I don't smoke, I don't drink (well, once in a blue moon maybe), I've never done drugs, I don't engage in any high risk activities, etc. so why should I be forced to pay into a system that I will never use?

I'm very fit, eat well, don't smoke or do drugs. I had gall stones 2 years ago, was taken to the ER and had to have my gall-bladder removed. 4 days in the hospital for a cool $72,000. Still think that you'll never use the system? Think again.... Statistically, you have a 50% chance of getting cancer...

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: I'm very fit, eat well, don't smoke or do drugs. I had gall stones 2 years ago, was taken to the ER and had to have my gall-bladder removed. 4 days in the hospital for a cool $72,000. Still think that you'll never use the system? Think again.... Statistically, you have a 50% chance of getting cancer...

Given my family history, it is a risk I am willing to take and a risk I should be allowed to make. There has never been any history of cancer in my family nor any other serious illness either. Quite frankly, we get old then drop dead.....which is how I plan on going myself. The men in my family live to be 85-95 years old with no long drawn out illness at all. Good genes? Probably. I feel sorry for other people who do get sick, but don't force me to pay for it.

As for the ER....I agree that it is an expensive way to pay for things, but it was in response to an article claiming people are dying because they lack health insurance. My point was (and is) that NOBODY is ever turned away from the ER if they are in trouble, so I find it hard to digest the notion that people are dying in the streets because they can't afford insurance.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: For me, that's a reason to support compulsory health insurance.

Are you eligible to go vote that you want this, or are you wishing it on a country that you have no say-so in?

It's just my opinion.

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Are you eligible to go vote that you want this, or are you wishing it on a country that you have no say-so in?

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: One example I know of is a client of ours who spends on personal training for herself ($89 per 60 min. session) while she has no health insurance for her two children or herself... For me, that's a reason to support compulsory health insurance.

For me, that's reason to support personal responsibilty for one's self and their dependants--if any dependants exist of course.
What we will find happening in this country very soon are huge $s of people who previously reported "above cutoff earnings" that suddenly do not, but will very happily accept OP'sM to pay for their health care under Obamacare even tho in fact, they could easily pay for it themselves. This nation has a very long and entrenched history of benefit claim abuses ranging everywhere from SS disability claims, to food stamp programs, to PTSD claims, work related injury litigation, Agent Orange claims and evertything in-between--all because of a lack of personal responsibility. Detracters will say the IRS will find them, but decades of governmental investigations have shown a very poor record of ferreting out tax evader successes thru their earnings reports. There are untold #s of ways to under report your earnings, and millions have no qualms in doing so.

Those same people will of course, continue to rant and rave about everyone else's greed while totally ignoring their own.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 07-01-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: The lack of medical coverage in America is a serious problem as approximately 50 million people were uninsured all through 2010. The lack of medical insurance has had grave consequences. In 2010 alone, 26,100 people died because they had no health insurance — that amounts to 502 preventable deaths a week.

I have a real problem with this article, as I can't really understand how "not having insurance" is a "cause of death." By law, people must be accepted at an ER, regardless of health insurance status.

Every once in a blue moon, someone gets rejected or something ridiculous happens and the person doesn't get equal care as someone WITH insurance, and the media goes wild, and the hospital is usually slapped with a fine.

I can think of no logical way that they were able to deduce that all of these deaths were a result of people not having health insurance.


If you just want a check-up... you can walk into an ER and get a check-up... they'll be pissed, and it will be a huge waste of time for them... but you'll get it. So the article can't suggest that it's because they didn't get proper routine care.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I would be interested in knowing how many of those falling under "lack of insurance" have high speed internet, a yardfull of big boy toys, piles and piles of video games, latest and greatest cell phones, drug users, drink alcohol on a regular basis, can "afford" cigarettes, and/or make more $$/year than I ever did in my working life. Just curious, as it's been my experience in talking to many people over the decades, that it isn't really true that they "can't afford" health/home/life insurance--or even required auto insurance------it's that they can't afford it and still maintain the life style to which they have become accustomed or have set for themselves. Their priorities too often are the things in life that they do every day or week that make them happy. And, they aren't shy about saying that either. Truly poor and or indigent excepted.

I wrote an article years ago about a set of housing projects in down town Fort Lauderdale. The local government there had spent millions and millions of dollars on it. They were small cottages, each built from the finest materials. They had barrel tiles, king palms planted all over the place ($20,000 each)... the homes were interconnected by a series of gardens using expensive pavers imported from South America... the lawns were well manicured, and they had playgrounds every 1/10th of a mile for the welfare kids to play on.

Each of these homes were being paid for 100% by the taxpayer... and almost every single one of these homes had a DirecTV dish installed on it's roof. I know that at the time, competition wasn't as great as it is now (in South Florida at least), and DirecTV was the only option you could have. The minimum, at the time, that people would pay for DirecTV was around $70 bucks. Many of the homes had new SUVs parked in front of them with big expensive rims.

Some people might get upset and say that I'm being mean because I think they should be impoverished... and you're DAMNED right. If I'm paying for their home, power, water, food, cell phone, and internet... they had better be seriously scraping by.

$70 bucks is more than enough to pay for a DECENT preventive care health insurance policy for them.


Another example I have is one that's a bit more close... my brother (when he was alive), worked for a cab company in western Virginia. Most of the people working there were about his age, and none of them really had a whole lot of money. The lady who ran the cab company wanted to get health insurance for "her boys" and told them that if they were willing to pitch in $20 bucks a paycheck, she could get a decent health care plan that would take care of their regular doctor visits, and anything else they needed so long as they picked a doctor that was in the plan. She was willing to cover the rest.

The cabbies decided they didn't want it... they would rather go out drinking on Friday nigth and blow their cash on beer and party time.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: One example I know of is a client of ours who spends on personal training for herself ($89 per 60 min. session) while she has no health insurance for her two children or herself... For me, that's a reason to support compulsory health insurance.

This is a big issue I have...

This person obviously doesn't think it important enough to get health insurance. Why do you think she should be forced into it?

While I agree with you that I think it's stupid... what makes you think the government always has the right answers by forcing people to do things they don't want, that hte government feels is the right thing to do?

Let's hope Romney can come up with an affordable and effective solution to the problem once he repeals the unaffordable Obamacare tax.

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 07-01-2012).]

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: It's just my opinion.

Why not get your citizenship so you can actually vote for the progressives who are pushing this.
Having a real stake in something put a whole new light on it.
But on the other hand, since the feds blocked any chance Florida has to curb voter fraud, you probably will be able to vote early and vote often!

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Why not get your citizenship so you can actually vote for the progressives who are pushing this.

What has my opinion got to do with this?

But to answer your question, I'm not eligible for citizenship yet. And no, if I was a US citizen, I would not vote Republican.

Wonder what the death stats will be when the government decides when and where you get necessary treatment. Ive heard like in some places like Canada, it takes a year or more just to get an MRI scheduled. I can get an MRI the next day here, in fact I did when i had some abdominal pains.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: I would not vote Republican.

I am just shocked.
I said you could vote for the progressives, like the genius Pelosi!

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: I would not vote Republican.

How about not pick a party and instead vote for the most qualified candidate?

quote Originally posted by User00013170: How about not pick a party and instead vote for the most qualified candidate?

The problem with that is it should be the right thing to do but we have developed a country that is at war with each side if most know it or not. The left and Right, the middle has died. Obama has torn the country more apart than ever. The left is destroying our country a little more every year. If you want a future for your children you should really think about who you vote for and work to bring this country back to what it was in the past going forward is the wrong way to go. NOTHING IS FREE the working people are the ones that pay.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: The minimum, at the time, that people would pay for DirecTV was around $70 bucks. Many of the homes had new SUVs parked in front of them with big expensive rims.

We have had Direct TV since we moved here to Maine the cost has never been $70 a month, until we started adding pay channels.
http://www.directstartv.com...directv_pricing.html

Starts at $30 a month now and if I remember right when we first got it, it was only $20 a month.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Let's hope Romney can come up with an affordable and effective solution to the problem once he repeals the unaffordable Obamacare tax.

Oh ya let’s get the idiot in who put Obama care in MA long before the boogie Woogie boy was a fart in the wind. His version was paid for with an increase in sales tax and other taxes. You need to learn just a little bit more about the other idiot running for president.

quote Originally posted by mrfiero: Given my family history, it is a risk I am willing to take and a risk I should be allowed to make. There has never been any history of cancer in my family nor any other serious illness either. Quite frankly, we get old then drop dead.....which is how I plan on going myself. The men in my family live to be 85-95 years old with no long drawn out illness at all. Good genes? Probably. I feel sorry for other people who do get sick, but don't force me to pay for it. As for the ER....I agree that it is an expensive way to pay for things, but it was in response to an article claiming people are dying because they lack health insurance. My point was (and is) that NOBODY is ever turned away from the ER if they are in trouble, so I find it hard to digest the notion that people are dying in the streets because they can't afford insurance.

What happens if you get in an accident? Run over by an illegal Mexican with no insurance?
And a ER only has to accept you without insurance if it is a life threatening problem, now if they don’t think you are having a heart attack they don’t have to treat you. Worcester city hospital is a great example. They sent a buddy of mines home because they said he just had a stomach ache. Her had a burst appendix and almost died before we got him to another hospital with good doctors.

Just to set things straight I am not a fan of ether of these idiots getting into any seat of power, they are, were, and always will be out for themselves.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

I wouldn't call healthcare insurance unaffordable in Florida. I actually am paying about half of what it cost me to have it in Connecticut.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: What happens if you get in an accident? Run over by an illegal Mexican with no insurance? And a ER only has to accept you without insurance if it is a life threatening problem, now if they don’t think you are having a heart attack they don’t have to treat you. Worcester city hospital is a great example. They sent a buddy of mines home because they said he just had a stomach ache. Her had a burst appendix and almost died before we got him to another hospital with good doctors.

I have auto insurance with appropriate medical coverage as well as an uninsured motorist rider, so I am covered in an accident. The last time I went to the ER was in 1984 when I was in the 8th grade. I almost cut the tip of my thumb off with a band saw in shop class.....luckily I just need a few stitches. I have been in a few auto accidents, but none required any medical care.

Last summer I twisted my knee pretty good and I paid for the doctor's visit out of my pocket. Didn't go to the ER even though I probably should have. The pain I was in was the most intense I had ever felt, but I waited a couple of days to see a regular doctor during regular business hours.

Again, for me medical insurance is something I don't want or need, but if you feel it is necessary then by all means buy it. I'm only saying I shouldn't be forced to buy it to subsidize someone elses poor health choices or bad genes or bad luck. If I get sick or fall ill I will seek out medical help and write a check to pay for it (as I have done in the past).

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: One example I know of is a client of ours who spends on personal training for herself ($89 per 60 min. session) while she has no health insurance for her two children or herself... For me, that's a reason to support compulsory health insurance.

And yet you still willingly take her money.

Brad

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: One example I know of is a client of ours who spends on personal training for herself ($89 per 60 min. session) while she has no health insurance for her two children or herself... For me, that's a reason to support compulsory health insurance.

Anyone using a personal trainer and still not providing health care for her/hid kids is IMO, not worthy to be called a parent. Please inform her or direct her to this thread,
I've got a few things I'd like to talk to her about. No, it won't be a nice discussion. Talk about someone with her priorities screwed up.

While I support folk's right to not be forced to buy something they don't want, some folks simply don't deserve to be called Mom or Dad.

That being said, personal responsibility and responsibility for the children we bring into this world is what's lacking in this country and apparently in every socialized country on this planet. We humans as a species once understood what failure to plan meant. Obviously, this "lady" needs a little failure in her life to realize what her priorities should be, then again, I'll bet she has a plan.. I'd hate to see her kids pay the price for her stupidity but, maybe that's what it's going to take for her to get her "stuff" together. Unfortunately, in our current system, everyone else gets to pay for her lack of parental and personal responisbiliities while we get to pay for it.

I think I'd find another client to fill that spot on the schedule, she obviously doesn't care enough about her kids to get her priorities right. Then again, it appears others are benefiting from the current system as well. After all, if she wasn't depending on us paying for her and her kids health care, she might not be able to afford a personal trainer. I would greatly appreciate it if you could reduce her hourly rate so that she can at least pay a little of her own health care costs. Surely, that's not too much to ask or, would you rather we pay for that also?

------------------
Ron
We learn good judgement by exercising bad judgement. Such is the human condition, as sad as that sounds.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Wonder what the death stats will be when the government decides when and where you get necessary treatment. Ive heard like in some places like Canada, it takes a year or more just to get an MRI scheduled. I can get an MRI the next day here, in fact I did when i had some abdominal pains.

BULLCRAP Roger.....My dad was having shortness of breath a couple months ago, and from initial doctors visit, to all tests (including an MRI), to surgery to have a stint installed was 3 weeks. I had an incedent in March at work with chest pain radiatating into my arm and jaw, and from the time my co-worker got me to emerg to initial ECG was about 10 mins, 2 full sets of blood tests (12 hours apart) and chest x-rays were same day, ultrasound on my chest was 2 days later and stress test (by now it was determined it wasnt heart-related, the stress test was just follow-up investigative type thing) was about 3-4 weeks.

If you need urgent care up here, you get it PDQ...but if you go in with a cold or a splinter in your pinkie, or a bad fart...yeh, you ARE gonna be prioritized same as any other high-volume triage.

Critics like to point to wait times for MRI or other brand-newer techniques that really arent medically necessary for their case, yet they "want now" so a lot of times a doc will give in to them and order the test BUT they wait for it. You DONT NEED and MRI for a broken arm when an x-ray will do. THATS where a lot of the whining/ complaining up here comes from, and quite often it also comes from the highly-paid medical sector as a way of lobying for more money and job security.

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 07-02-2012).]

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Ive heard like in some places like Canada [...]

[sarcasm] That's what I call the basis for a good opinion and solid discussion. [/sarcasm]

And don't overuse "like" just because you date all those young things...

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 07-02-2012).]

Seems to me that many want somebody else to pay for their doctor visits and hospital bills, and not give up their cell phone or SUV or cable TV, or their McMansion, etc.

Seems to me that many just want it FREE, as they have been told all their lives that so-called 'health care' is a right (it isn't).

Seems to me that all of the government 'solutions' further absolve people of personal responsibility, adding yet more sucklers to the government teet.

Seems to me that sooner or later, working stiffs are going to get tired of paying for everyone else.

I'm sort of hoping that a 'black market' of doctors will crop up, that do business in CASH, with no government reporting to the 'central nanny database of healthcare'.

quote Originally posted by dsnover: Seems to me that many just want it FREE, as they have been told all their lives that so-called 'health care' is a right (it isn't)..

Correct. The reason it isn't a right like free speech or religion is it requires someone to provide you with a service. You don't have a right to force others into servitude. (that used to be called slavery). No right listed in the Bill of Rights requires one person to provide a service to another.

quote Originally posted by dsnover: I'm sort of hoping that a 'black market' of doctors will crop up, that do business in CASH, with no government reporting to the 'central nanny database of healthcare'.

It's already happening. It's not "black market" per se. Some doctors are setting up cash-only practices. No insurance is taken at all. They're able to offer cheaper rates because of this. There's one such practice not too far from me.

I'd love a yard full of big boy toys! Instead, I an paying about $6000 out of pocket a year to make sure my family has health insurance.

What I do not like with the current system (pre-obamacare) is what mrfiero eludes to. The fact that people go without coverage, have an emergency (or even just a common illness), and end up in the ER. Since nobody is turned away from the ER, they receive extremely expensive treatment. Then, due to lack of ability to pay, the Hospital has to pass the cost onto the paying (insured) customers. This just raises the overall rates, and due to that increase, health insurance companies have to raise their premiums on those who are insured.

This to me is one of the biggest problems in the system. It is one of the things obamacare is trying to fix, by compelling people into carrying coverage. I am not sure that is the best way around it, but however the best way is, I think it would be nice if I could buy health insurance without ending up subsidizing ER visits by those who need care and cannot or will not buy insurance for themselves.

We had the same argument when Medicaid/Medicare was enacted as as tax.

Sure, this isn't more than just expansion of those programs with a mix of HMO's in the till.

I don't like expansion of government, but when I see People of Wal-Mart, some here on PFF and elsewhere, I hate to admit this, but a lot of people are just too stupid for their own good and government is needed to keep the stupid from spreading into chaos.

ObamaCare won't be the best, but at least it makes lazy and stupid people happy and maybe it just might lower crime as more people will be under government care/control.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: What has my opinion got to do with this? But to answer your question, I'm not eligible for citizenship yet. And no, if I was a US citizen, I would not vote Republican.

Regardless of your opinion on this topic, I am interested to know if you are interested in or planning to become a citizen of this country? If so, I have a few other questions I'd like to ask.

But, I won't do it in this thread.

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Ron
We learn good judgement by exercising bad judgement. Such is the human condition, as sad as that sounds.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Seems to me, the obvious answer (as hard as this may sound) is to only allow those who have insurance or can pay to visit ERs. Sounds harsh I know but, we only seem to learn through our mistakes. Don't feed the bears, they become lazy and won't search for their own food. Raising chickens in coyote country with out a watchdog is kind of foolish also. Giving away free health care is just silly IMO. Self reliance on any scale has been virtually lost. There is a price to pay for all this socialization, that price is gonna bring this country to it's knees if not knock it out. Why we can't figure that out is beyond me.

I agree with you. But we have a system of government that allows voters to make this happen.

When a child expects a weekly allowance for doing nothing and has the opportunity to expand that allowance, they will do it.

When you give people the power to use the force of government to take from other people and give it to themselves, then there will be no end in sight.

We have approached the tipping point 50%+ of the population pays no taxes, yet receives benefits, those benefits are just going to get larger and larger and the people that can pay for it will get smaller in number, but bigger in percentage.

The welfare state was considered a great success of the 20th century in modern economies. We now know it to be out-of-control and completely unsustainable, but we keep pushing through hoping that a miracle or "more taxes" will cure it.

quote Originally posted by mrfiero: I have auto insurance with appropriate medical coverage as well as an uninsured motorist rider, so I am covered in an accident. The last time I went to the ER was in 1984 when I was in the 8th grade. I almost cut the tip of my thumb off with a band saw in shop class.....luckily I just need a few stitches. I have been in a few auto accidents, but none required any medical care. Last summer I twisted my knee pretty good and I paid for the doctor's visit out of my pocket. Didn't go to the ER even though I probably should have. The pain I was in was the most intense I had ever felt, but I waited a couple of days to see a regular doctor during regular business hours. Again, for me medical insurance is something I don't want or need, but if you feel it is necessary then by all means buy it. I'm only saying I shouldn't be forced to buy it to subsidize someone elses poor health choices or bad genes or bad luck. If I get sick or fall ill I will seek out medical help and write a check to pay for it (as I have done in the past).

and what if you are walking accross the street not driving? are you still covered then? No

steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: and what if you are walking accross the street not driving? are you still covered then? No steve

umadbro?

It's his choice. So far he has saved a lot of money. I'd say he's winning, right? If anything happens, he may regret it, or he may not. That isn't really up to you to decide.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: umadbro? It's his choice. So far he has saved a lot of money. I'd say he's winning, right? If anything happens, he may regret it, or he may not. That isn't really up to you to decide.

Umm, maybe, depends whether or not they are on the same street and Steve sees him first.

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Ron
We learn good judgement by exercising bad judgement. Such is the human condition, as sad as that sounds.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Umm, maybe, depends whether or not they are on the same street and Steve sees him first.

Now you have me worried about myself! No health insurance... and I'm an engineer!