Found this article today: http://www.theatlanticwire....t-people-2011/52162/

quote According to Germany's Der Spiegel, German police shot only 85 bullets in all of 2011, a stark reminder that not every country is as gun-crazy as the U.S. of A. As Boing Boing translates, most of those shots weren't even aimed anyone: "49 warning shots, 36 shots on suspects. 15 persons were injured, 6 were killed." [...] Meanwhile, in the U.S., where the population is little less than four times the size of Germany's, well, we can get to 85 in just one sitting, thank you very much. 84 shots fired at one murder suspect in Harlem, another 90 shot at one fleeing unarmed man in Los Angeles. And that was just April. So we bring you Germany's shot total in case you forgot about America shoots itself in the foot with its manic love of guns.

I guess they don't have to stock up like ours do.
http://articles.businessins..._1_atk-rounds-bullet

Good grief I own four guns and haven't shot anyone yet this year! I need to catch up!

In seriousness though, this is interesting, although not entirely a correlation. What would be more interesting would be to compare number and types of crimes, police calls, shots fired, etc. Just a straight "numbers" doesn't make much sense, like comparing the amount of gas we both used without comparing the number of miles we traveled.

quote America's manic love of guns..."

I would say its not a "manic love" at all. Simply a tool that is now a part of American life.

We used guns out of necessity. We have for years and will continue to do so.

I refuse to be a victim, and will continue to carry. You choose not to. Your choice.

Just remember: The velocity of a round is faster then the speed of sound. The Police are much slower to respond.

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 05-12-2012).]

quote Originally posted by htexans1: I would say its not a "manic love" at all. Simply a tool that is now a part of American life. We used guns out of necessity. We have for years and will continue to do so. I refuse to be a victim, and will continue to carry. You choose not to. Your choice. Just remember: The velocity of a round is faster then the speed of sound. The Police are much slower to respond.

As my buddy always says Id rather have a gun in my hand than a cop on the phone...

Found this article today: http://www.guardian.co.uk/w...-nazis-evaded-police

quote How could German neo-Nazi killers have evaded police for 13 years? Officials face difficult questions over how fugitives were able to carry out 10 murders, 14 bank robberies and two nailbomb attacks ... At 9.15am on Friday 4 November, two men stormed into a building society in the east German town of Eisenach. One was wearing a black balaclava, the other a gorilla mask. Both had guns. They demanded money, punching a bank teller before grabbing €70,000 (£60,000) from the safe and hopping on to bicycles they had propped up outside. They knew what they were doing – it was their 14th bank robbery in 12 years.

But criminals can't have guns in Europe, can they?

This thread is not about individual gun ownership but about the willingness and frequency of police to use their guns on people.

I want to emphasize that I'm not trying to hype Germany here, I just read German news (and not, say Thai or British or South African) and that's why come across German news stories and share them here for discussion.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Found this article today: http://www.guardian.co.uk/w...-nazis-evaded-police But criminals can't have guns in Europe, can they?

Whoever said they DON'T??? and errrmmmm...nobody got shot....I suppose if PK had been there, any number of people would have ended up riddled with bullets ....and the subjects would STILL have made their escape...probably hardly able to ride their getaway bikes for laughing

Police in the US don't kill the citizens anywhere near the numbers that the average citizens kill each one another in.

The Constitutional right for population control.

I didn't get Formula88's point, either. No question that in the case you mentioned there was sloppy policework involved but how does the fact that German police kills very few people play into that?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: and hopping on to bicycles

Sorry, this mental picture cracks me up

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: This thread is not about individual gun ownership but about the willingness and frequency of police to use their guns on people. I want to emphasize that I'm not trying to hype Germany here, I just read German news (and not, say Thai or British or South African) and that's why come across German news stories and share them here for discussion.

Yeah, but some on this forum will for they have a love affair with guns and ammo. They will single you out and then try and attach the President to it. That said, back to the thread at hand.

Good thread and thanks for posting it. I like the article about how many shoots are fired at a suspect in America. LEO's in America will shoot and empty out the entire clip and shot innocent people walking nearby. It happened here in San Francisco, CA. Look at any You Tube video and you'll see 10,000 cops shooting into a car. LOL.

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"Friends don't let their friends drive stock."

Well that's a lot less bullets than the Germans used to use.

I don't worry much about the Germans and bullets, I'm more concerned about their gas use.

Brad

Don't the German police have to practice using their guns to make sure they are proficient in their use. I think the actual number of bullets they use is higher than what the article states. Here is the U.S. we don't have a need to own firearms, we have the right to do so, if we please.

quote Originally posted by kwagner: Sorry, this mental picture cracks me up

Hey, have you seen the price of gas in Germany?
Robbing and murdering is one thing, but those gas prices are crazy.

The population of Germany was 82,282,988 people as per the July 2010 census.
U.S. 313,532,929

Seeing we have 4 times as many people as Germany it seems interesting, what would that be if you took that into account.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't http://serve.mysmiley.net/c...rs/character0029.gif
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

It is a little easier to maintain law and order after exterminating all the non-Germans in WWII. Try importing 98.5% of your population from every other part of the world then come back with some statistics.

Who wants Germans to have guns!!! They started two world wars!!!

Kinda like the whole middle east, and all of africa. They solve all their problems with rocket launchers and machetes.

85 rounds? Some people claim their constitutional rights are being violated if they can't fire at least 25% of that with one squeeze of the trigger. Yep, that would never play in the USA.

You did read the article, right?

quote Meanwhile, in the U.S., where the population is little less than four times the size of Germany's, well, we can get to 85 in just one sitting, thank you very much.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: The population of Germany was 82,282,988 people as per the July 2010 census. U.S. 313,532,929 Seeing we have 4 times as many people as Germany it seems interesting, what would that be if you took that into account. Steve

Apart from the idiotic comment (in the context of this thread), about 15.4 million people living in Germany (out of a population of about 81 million) are actually not German (even though some may have a German passport).

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: It is a little easier to maintain law and order after exterminating all the non-Germans in WWII. Try importing 98.5% of your population from every other part of the world then come back with some statistics.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Just read the article

dang, i bet you want us to think, too. good luck with that.

quote Originally posted by RotrexFiero: Who wants Germans to have guns!!! They started two world wars!!! Kinda like the whole middle east, and all of africa. They solve all their problems with rocket launchers and machetes.

Uh, who did you say started World War I? The Germans? Is that your final answer?

Once again, 90 rounds! As usual officals defended the officer's action and reviewing the large number of rounds fired endangering motorist. No kidding.

Los Angeles Police Department officials described the shooting death of a 19-year-old man after a bizarre high-speed chase on the 101 Freeway "tragic" but defended the officers' actions.

Eight Los Angeles police officers fired more than 90 rounds, killing him.

LAPD officials will review several factors related to the incident, including communication tactics and whether the large number of rounds fired endangered other freeway motorists.


http://latimesblogs.latimes...ragic-lapd-says.html

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Yes, they do practice but the number of 85 rounds refers only to bullets fired in the line of duty at people (either as warning shots or aimed). Just read the article and you'll know.

It's definitely a stark statistic, but I have to say firing warning shots is one of the more stupid things you can do with a firearm.
The article doesn't say, but where were these warning shots fired? Into the air? Ground? Some random direction? That bullet's coming down somewhere and if the officer firing it doesn't have an identified backstop for the shot, she/he is recklessly endangering others.

Boy, 4, killed as he sat in church by bullet fired TWO miles away

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: And another idiotic comment... thank you and here's a medal. Which year do you live in?

I live in the year where if one forgets the past they are doomed to repeat it.


Someone hinting that Germany is better, or less crazy than the Country that kicked it's ass multiple times is kinda idiotic IMHO.

Brad

We win. Higher numbers of rounds used and more killed. I guess I never understood golf either.

I keep 3 15 round magazines with my gun. I wanna let them know I could have shot them more but, didn't.

Yellowstone,
I work with a chef from Germany.
Very intelligent and insightful gentleman.
We talk alot about his country & my country, much in the same context of subjects that get talked about around here.

VERY interesting comparing the two ways of modern life.
We talk about his countries past, too.
I have gained some rather new insight into that, as well as how the average German working man's life is going today.

He gives the impression that business & life in Germany is pretty good.
Good wages, low crime, good health, and people are pretty damn happy.

It really sounds like a nice place to live.

If it’s so good there then go back.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't http://serve.mysmiley.net/c...rs/character0029.gif
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

With some people here it's really impossible to carry on a civilized discussion. Use of force by the police has been an issue in the US, as far as I follow the news. So, I posted this article from Germany (because I don't closely follow the news from other places, like Japan or Ecuador) to provide a contrast of another western, civilized society where police seems to be taking a different approach while still providing safety for citizens.

What happens? Basically, I'm a Nazi (or, us Germans all are) and I should go back home...

Is that really the best you've got? Why are you participating in a discussion forum?

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: If it’s so good there then go back. Steve

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: Someone hinting that Germany is better, or less crazy than the Country that kicked it's ass multiple times is kinda idiotic IMHO. Brad

quote Originally posted by RotrexFiero: Who wants Germans to have guns!!! They started two world wars!!!

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: Well that's a lot less bullets than the Germans used to use. I don't worry much about the Germans and bullets, I'm more concerned about their gas use. Brad

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I don't think the German police practice on people anymore.

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 05-13-2012).]

Too many variables to really compare them, are private citizens in Germany even allowed to own guns?

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't http://serve.mysmiley.net/c...rs/character0029.gif
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

WHAT DOES IT MATTER??? This is a thread about police use of force in the line of duty! And, as the pro-gun people always say, the criminals always have guns, right? Why does it matter for the topic at hand if the law-abiding citizen has or is allowed to own a gun or not? One would hope that it's not them the police are shooting it out with...

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Too many variables to really compare them, are private citizens in Germany even allowed to own guns? Steve

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 05-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: With some people here it's really impossible to carry on a civilized discussion. Use of force by the police has been an issue in the US, as far as I follow the news. So, I posted this article from Germany (because I don't closely follow the news from other places, like Japan or Ecuador) to provide a contrast of another western, civilized society where police seems to be taking a different approach while still providing safety for citizens. What happens? Basically, I'm a Nazi (or, us Germans all are) and I should go back home... Is that really the best you've got? Why are you participating in a discussion forum?

Lets put this in perspective for you.

You leave your beloved Germany and come to the USA. Why? Once you are here, you dicide to post numerous things comparing Germany and the USA, all of which show the USA in a bad light. Now, you don't expect US citizens to get offended by this? Are you seriously that arrogant?

If the USA is so bad compared to Germany then by all means feel free to go back to Germany. We won't stop you from leaving the same as we didn't stop you from coming. We don't need or want USA haters from other countries living here. If you don't have anything nice to say about the USA then don't say anything at all. Keep it to yourself and you won't be having this issue.

You have every right to think, believe or say anything you want. But in return we have every right to not like what you say and to respond with our own opinions. Or are we not allowed to dissagree with you?

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: WHAT DOES IT MATTER??? This is a thread about police use of force in the line of duty! And, as the pro-gun people always say, the criminals always have guns, right? Why does it matter for the topic at hand if the law-abiding citizen has or is allowed to own a gun or not? One would hope that it's not them the police are shooting it out with...

Police force and gun use are different sides of the coin.

If you really want to compare the US and Germany then don't skip over things, like Germany Shocked by 'Disproportionate' Police Action in Stuttgart, or Police Brutality in Germany Following Protests Against Mass Surveillance, or even police officer kicks head of an already lying protester.

Just guns are not all of the violence from Police.

Then there is this.

GERMAN POPULATION = 81,471,834 (July 2011 est.)

USA POPULATION = 313,232,044 (July 2011 est.)

What I would like to see is how many bullets the US police fired at people. Not bean bags, not tear gas, not rubber bullets, actual "these will kill you" bullets. Then take that number and set it up per capita.

Got a number on that chief?

Brad

Edit to add: Then there is the pesky "fired at people" wording. How many bullets were fired at vehicles? Houses? If an officer shot at a suspect, but claimed in his report that he fired to shoot out a window for better access did it count as a shot fired for this report?

[This message has been edited by twofatguys (edited 05-13-2012).]