,,Who here remembers my post on the VOLT years ago,,I followed it up to when they built the battery plant,,THIS WAS FORCED ON G.M. BY THE GREENS & GOV BEAUCRATS WHO WANTED ELECTRIC CARS.
THIS CAR DESTROYED G.M.
IT IS A MAIN REASON PONTIAC IS GONE
the car is a complete crapster POS good luck to the fools who purchased one.
at one time over 50% of GM engineers were working on this car & problems with GM transmissions were ignored,& customers were screwed
10 years of profit went into this crapster.
wait till we have auto battery polution??
many GM engineers thought the car was complete crap,,it will take 10 years of 100,000 VOLTs a year to recoup the cost.
this car should have NEVER been manufactured
Americans generally hate small economical cars !!raise your hand if you are really hot for a smart car
GM should have built a world beater 50 mpg ,lite Saturn/Cavalier ,yes it would have been slow.A 2200 pound car with 80 to 85 horsepower,4 cylinder, the 5 speed would get 48 city 55 hiway like the 1993 honda civic vx

Fiat markets the "500" its small and pretty quick for a little car. Available for less money then the Volt.

As much as they worked on the Volt/Ampera and for all its technology, it failed.

They need to just kill it. Go back to gas cars GM, it seems you have better luck there.

Leave the electrics to the other car makers.

I dont see why most people are so blind to think we can ignor the superiority of electric cars. GM is hurting now because the start up cost is high. This is at least the second startup for this type of project. They would be doninating the world if they kept the Saturn EV1 project going and built on that technoligy. Now they are suffering from that mistake.
It should be mandated on ALL manufacurors to build a minimum of 25% of production as electric cars or they will not be allowed to sell in the USA.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 03-06-2012).]

Uhlanstan's favorite auto manufacturer Toyota, with vehicles such as the Prius C at LESS than 1/2 the base price of the Volt, will enhance the ultimate demise of the Volt.

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: GM should have built a world beater 50 mpg ,lite Saturn/Cavalier ,yes it would have been slow.A 2200 pound car with 80 to 85 horsepower,4 cylinder, the 5 speed would get 48 city 55 hiway like the 1993 honda civic vx

You mean so they could go bankrupt (again) and the Honda dealership could buy them out just for a place to store all thier money? Yea thats a great idea, build a dog slow cheap chincy POS that competes in the market with a decent honda civic (and many others) that gets the same MPG but has twice the HP and a compratively nicer interior and size.

I love how all the opposing arguements to hybrid and EV cars competely omit any semblance of data or facts and always boil down to "well they suck because I dont like them". Guess what, there is data to oppose them, there are relevant facts against them, just everyone who doesnt like them is so blinded by thier hatred they cant fathom actually doing a fair comparison. Frankly its a tossup when you look at the data.

I dont like them either, nor would I buy one at that price, but Im not so obtuse as to present my feelings as some sort of fact and try to impose my prefrences on others.

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: I dont see why most people are so blind to think we can ignor the superiority of electric cars. GM is hurting now because the start up cost is high. This is at least the second startup for this type of project. They would be doninating the world if they kept the Saturn EV1 project going and built on that technoligy. Now they are suffering from that mistake. It should be mandated on ALL manufacurors to build a minimum of 25% of production as electric cars or they will not be allowed to sell in the USA.

The electric car is not superior in my opinion. The technology is not there yet, and its more trouble then what its worth to own/operate one.

GM is hurting because it has lost its way, not due to the start up of the Volt. They have" Government Motors loans" so money is not an issue.

I advocate the building of electrics by someone else other then GM. They (GM) should stick to gas cars/trucks
The EV-1 was not all that. Limited by range, its technology and the fact it could only seat 2. The batteries it has were abysmal. GM did the best thing they could by crushing them.

That wasn't a mistake ( crushing the EV-1), it was erasing a bad move for them.

Honda/Toyota and Mitsubishi should advance the technology farther. GM should stick to the 1 ton crew cab and the Surburban.

quote It should be mandated on ALL manufacurors to build a minimum of 25% of production as electric cars or they will not be allowed to sell in the USA.

We have enough government regulations. We dont need any more, especially manufacturing mandates like this.

Freedom of choice is what matters. Let the market determine what it wants to buy.

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 03-06-2012).]

quote Originally posted by htexans1: We have enough government regulations. We dont need any more, especially manufacturing mandates like this. Freedom of choice is what matters. Let the market determine what it wants to buy.

Just pushing his "HOT" button.
The topic is kindof bias, so I just countered it with the same kind of stuff.

LOL (and if it stimulates debate, im all for it )

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: I dont see why most people are so blind to think we can ignor the superiority of electric cars.

Blind, think, ignore, superiority ?

Republican bearing whine.
What a bunch of pessimist. grasping at failure with glee.
Ya'll are the same folks that said the wright brother were crazy.
No problem . The Chinese will develop the technology and we can buy it from them.
They are a can do nation, like we once were.

quote Originally posted by Wolfhound: Republican bearing whine. What a bunch of pessimist. grasping at failure with glee. Ya'll are the same folks that said the wright brother were crazy. No problem . The Chinese will develop the technology and we can buy it from them. They are a can do nation, like we once were.

Very Insightful!

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: I dont see why most people are so blind to think we can ignor the superiority of electric cars. GM is hurting now because the start up cost is high. This is at least the second startup for this type of project. They would be doninating the world if they kept the Saturn EV1 project going and built on that technoligy. Now they are suffering from that mistake. It should be mandated on ALL manufacurors to build a minimum of 25% of production as electric cars or they will not be allowed to sell in the USA.

I agree. We need more government mandates!

------------------
You're suspect.

Come out to Nebraska with your electric car and see how it does for 5 years.

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: ,,Who here remembers my post on the VOLT years ago,,I followed it up to when they built the battery plant,,THIS WAS FORCED ON G.M. BY THE GREENS & GOV BEAUCRATS WHO WANTED ELECTRIC CARS. THIS CAR DESTROYED G.M. IT IS A MAIN REASON PONTIAC IS GONE the car is a complete crapster POS good luck to the fools who purchased one. at one time over 50% of GM engineers were working on this car & problems with GM transmissions were ignored,& customers were screwed 10 years of profit went into this crapster. wait till we have auto battery polution?? many GM engineers thought the car was complete crap,,it will take 10 years of 100,000 VOLTs a year to recoup the cost. this car should have NEVER been manufactured

I completely agree. I have been saying for years that electric cars will NEVER be viable because of that nagging Third Law of Thermodynamics.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Very Insightful!

Lost in the argument on the Volt, and electric car feasibility is this little ditty. Toyota lost thousands of dollars per Prius, looking at it as an investment in the future. Heaven forbid GM should see past the end of the nose. Developement requires real world testing and changes as needed. Do you think the F23 fighter jets popped up out of nowhere at bargain bin pricing? As far as the Volt's performance, it's relative. My sister's Prius cannot physically climb the rough dirt hill leading into our acreage, so I guess it's a worthless piece of **** .

quote Originally posted by weaselbeak: Lost in the argument on the Volt, and electric car feasibility is this little ditty. Toyota lost thousands of dollars per Prius, looking at it as an investment in the future. Heaven forbid GM should see past the end of the nose. Developement requires real world testing and changes as needed. Do you think the F23 fighter jets popped up out of nowhere at bargain bin pricing? As far as the Volt's performance, it's relative. My sister's Prius cannot physically climb the rough dirt hill leading into our acreage, so I guess it's a worthless piece of **** .

But the Prius is a hybrid. It still has a small internal combustion engine to sustain it. Electric cars do not. And since there is no such thing as perpetual motion, that is a deal breaker.

So, they go forty miles, maybe more. Then they need a charge (if a charging station is available). How long will it take to charge fully? Four hours? More? And where does electricity come from?

The original purpose of the electric car is ostensibly to reduce fossil fuel consumption and pollution. This does neither.

Besides, it is incredibly inconvenient, to say the least.

[This message has been edited by fogglethorpe (edited 03-06-2012).]

The volt is a hybrid too.

I don't see the volt being a "POS". I see it as being too expensive for its market. And while its not *the* answer, electric is part of the long term solution and we need to keep R/D working on it to bring costs down.

As I non-native speaker I always marvel at Uhlanstans use of the comma and other aspects of grammar and spelling of the English language.

quote Originally posted by dratts: The volt is a hybrid too.

Ok. After I did some reading, I can see that you are correct. Thank you for the correction.

However, my previous comments were aimed at purely electric cars, and I stand by them. But maybe the volt can be excluded.

[This message has been edited by fogglethorpe (edited 03-06-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: I dont see why most people are so blind to think we can ignor the superiority of electric cars. It should be mandated on ALL manufacurors to build a minimum of 25% of production as electric cars or they will not be allowed to sell in the USA.

If they did do that, they would all go bankrupt. They cant sell enough to make up 2% of the market. All you would have is lots full of unsellable cars no one can afford, and lots of unemployed auto workers. They might sell 5% if gas goes over $5.00. Most people that cant afford the price will carpool or ride the bus. Also dont forget highway repairs are paid for from gasoline sales taxes. With many cars (it wont happen for many many years) being electric all the roads will turn to crap. Watch for treated gravel freeways.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: As I non-native speaker I always marvel at Uhlanstans use of the comma and other aspects of grammar and spelling of the English language.

Yes, his [Uhlanstan's] command of the English language is at the doctoral level aint it. lol

As for the "Volt" GM refers to it as "an extended range electric vehicle," not a "POS" or a "hybrid." lol

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 03-06-2012).]

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: As I non-native speaker I always marvel at Uhlanstans use of the comma and other aspects of grammar and spelling of the English language.

Not sure we can call it English.

quote Originally posted by Wolfhound: Republican bearing whine. What a bunch of pessimist. grasping at failure with glee. Ya'll are the same folks that said the wright brother were crazy. No problem . The Chinese will develop the technology and we can buy it from them. They are a can do nation, like we once were.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I wasn't aware the the US Government had nationalized the Write Brother's corporation, and then dumped hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars into it, only to give part of it to the Canadians, and the rest of that half to a Union.

And... for what it's worth, GM is considering a move for the Volt to produce them all in China anyway. The UAW is fighting this of course, so don't know what the outcome will be.
http://www.theblaze.com/sto...production-to-china/
Todd

quote Originally posted by fogglethorpe: But the Prius is a hybrid. It still has a small internal combustion engine to sustain it. Electric cars do not. And since there is no such thing as perpetual motion, that is a deal breaker. So, they go forty miles, maybe more. Then they need a charge (if a charging station is available). How long will it take to charge fully? Four hours? More? And where does electricity come from? The original purpose of the electric car is ostensibly to reduce fossil fuel consumption and pollution. This does neither. Besides, it is incredibly inconvenient, to say the least.

Are you still referring to the Volt or the Leaf?

quote Originally posted by Wolfhound: Republican bearing whine. What a bunch of pessimist. grasping at failure with glee. Ya'll are the same folks that said the wright brother were crazy.

If they had the regulations we have now they never would have been able to build it or fly...

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I wasn't aware the the US Government had nationalized the Write Brother's corporation, and then dumped hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars into it, only to give part of it to the Canadians, and the rest of that half to a Union. And... for what it's worth, GM is considering a move for the Volt to produce them all in China anyway. The UAW is fighting this of course, so don't know what the outcome will be. http://www.theblaze.com/sto...production-to-china/ Todd

and GE (Government Electric) is bailing them out......with taxpayer money naturally!

GE Buys Volts, Taxpayers Get Charged
The Detroit News reports this week that “General Electric will convert half its 30,000 worldwide fleet of vehicles to electrics, including purchasing 12,000 cars from GM beginning with the 2011 Chevrolet Volt. In all, the Fairfield, Conn.–based company, which makes charging stations, will purchase 25,000 plug-in electric cars by 2015.”

Yes, those charging stations — GE makes the GE Wattstation — are also subsidized by up to $2,000 of your tax money.

“It is . . . a vote of confidence in the Chevrolet Volt, which we will begin delivering to retail customers by the end of this year,” GM CEO Dan Akerson said of GE’s announcement. “We are pleased that the Volt will play a major role in this program, which will spur innovation and benefit our companies, our customers, and society as a whole.”

Akerson’s cynical take on GE’s buy assumes ignorance of the Iron Triangle between federal green subsides, GE and GM. Greased by taxpayer dollars, the corporations benefit from this false market.

quote Originally posted by dn69141: Come out to Nebraska with your electric car and see how it does for 5 years.

I see electric smart cars, the Nissan leaf, and the Chevy Volt constantly....
I believe the Volt does a very nice job of demonstrating that electric cars aren't limited to city use, which I imagine is your main complaint of living in the middle of nowhere.
I've stopped by Chevy and have taken a look at a few, in all reality it would make a very practical car for most people.
With that said though, and like many others have said, It is too much money. If I were to purchase a $40.000 car I would expect some type of quality and a car I actually want to own.

i own 6 volts adn they are all awesome. they are all different colors and i drive one for every day of the week! and then on sunday i obviously drive my fiero that ive purposely made get 5 GPM or gallons per mile. i actually think the nasa crawler gets better economy than my fiero..... j/k i only have 4 volts 6 is just silly!

..The volt is revolting,,I followed the developement ,A major reason for G.M. ,s financial loses were the volt,next the economy & people purchasing foreign made cars,.
..I do not have a T.V..I listen to the radio all day if possible when I work & followed the Volt for four years ,Many engineers & auto industry "experts" ,auto writers concidered the volt a green boondoggle for years,it is unreliable ,often you can only go 25 miles on a charge,, this revolting is a $35,000.oo Piece o crap not worthy of my exacting poor grammer ,I throw some bad stuff in if i forget to screw it up,thank you grammer police,,A MAJOR EFFORT FROM G.M.WAS REQUIRED TO BRING THIS DIARRHEA TOILET FLUSH TO MARKET,BILLIONs were flush down the portta potty to please the greens!! This car help ruin G.M. It is a POS & this is common knowledge now.
3% OF THE MONEY SPENT ON THE REVOLTING VOLT COULD HAVE DEVELOPED A GAS SIPPER THAT WOULD SELL,this from the dept of common sense ..I SEE MY PREDICTIONS ON GAS ARE HAPPENING,MUCH LOWER PRICES THAN I EXPECTED..so far, Gas is still cheap now,thought it would hit $5.00 by mid april.
I expect lotsa flack from the lib marxist & ostrich sheep paulistas,,trillions down the bottomless green swirling toilet,The volt & solyndra were made for each other .
Have a nice day,unless you have other plans..

Agreed

quote Originally posted by User00013170: I don't see the volt being a "POS". I see it as being too expensive for its market. And while its not *the* answer, electric is part of the long term solution and we need to keep R/D working on it to bring costs down.

I was looking through a pop sci may from '77 and there was the Fiesta which got 46MPG hwy and 36MPG city. Pretty funny to think that we haven't got much better after this many years. Of course MPG is calc. differently by the EPA now, but those were high numbers. I think cheap gas in the 80s was damaging to the efforts for better fuel economy. But I sure liked the $1/gal!

The problem that I see with this is, and it’s just MY OPINION, is that the mentality of the American public would need to change to accommodate a fuel efficient gas vehicle. We like our big cars and air conditioning and power steering and automatic transmissions, high horsepower...blah blah blah. You will NEVER get a real fuel efficient vehicle unless you start cutting out a lot of the luxuries that the American public as a whole is not willing to give up. $hit even the Fiat 500 with its LIMITED features and small size is rated at 33MPG COMBINED. Until we as a society change the way we think and what is important to US, this will continue to be a problem. GM tried to give us the best of both worlds with the VOLT. Creature comforts that we as Americans are used to with the ability to save some gas. It is a HYBRID not an EV. So even if you get 40 miles on a charge, for less than $2, your ahead of the game compared to driving a Suburban. It's not like you run out of charge and you’re stranded, you simply burn gas...like every other car. The problem with the VOLT is the price point. It’s NOT affordable to the average American that can't afford to pay the costs of gas as they are today. THIS is the downfall of the car, not the technology it holds...Hybrids are in their infancy, even the Prius has had issues...If we continue to pi$$ and moan about it and not support the companies that are trying to develop the technology then don't whine when gas is 7-9 dollars a gallon...PERIOD.

A lot of you want your cake and eat it too....It just won't happen. No matter how much you whine and complain...

And speaking of gas efficient vehicles, I lived in Poland years ago...I drove a Fiat 126 as a teen. Got over 50 MPG combined mileage. That was back in the mid 70's. Gas sipping cars are not new - but would you as an American want to drive a car like this?

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: 3% OF THE MONEY SPENT ON THE REVOLTING VOLT COULD HAVE DEVELOPED A GAS SIPPER THAT WOULD SELL,this from the dept of common sense

quote Originally posted by chester: And speaking of gas efficient vehicles, I lived in Poland years ago...I drove a Fiat 126 as a teen. Got over 50 MPG combined mileage. That was back in the mid 70's. Gas sipping cars are not new - but would you as an American want to drive a car like this?

Haaa the 126p!! I'm Polish, and its a sight to see when a family of 4 gets out of one of those . Going there for a month of vacation, my cousin is buying one in advance for $50- and we're gonna weld up a roll cage/ throw on some huge tires/ cut out the wheel wells and take that sucker off roading haha. I love those little guys.

[This message has been edited by nitroheadz28 (edited 03-07-2012).]

That's so cool! It was fun to drive, like a gocart. LOL

I haven't been back in a LONG time. Would love to take my wife there and show her my old stompimg grounds...

Have fun on your vacation! Get some pics, I would love to see the lil 126 gettin' some mud...LOL

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: Haaa the 126p!! I'm Polish, and its a sight to see when a family of 4 gets out of one of those . Going there for a month of vacation, hes buying one in advance for $50- and we're gonna weld up a roll cage/ throw on some huge tires/ cut out the wheel wells and take that sucker off roading haha. I love those little guys.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: As I non-native speaker I always marvel at Uhlanstans use of the comma and other aspects of grammar and spelling of the English language.

Note to Yellowstone:

Criticizing Uhlanistan may be hazardous to your green ratings bar.
He gets a pass for being hateful, incomprehensible, abrasive, and xenophobic.
For some reason, people on this forum like that sort of thing.
I have learned to just ignore him.

------------------

Drive safely!

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 03-07-2012).]

That is what I do. Although I am reading this thread I skipped his post. I really don't think he minds. If he wanted people to take him seriously he would change his posts. Not everything he says is wrong, but I can't take his prejudices.

Contrary to personal unsubstantiated opinion the Volt was just named car of the year at the Geneva Auto show..
Not by a panel of US government employees or some lone blogger that thinks his opinion is in deed fact, but from folks that actually know something about automobiles.

Again to those who continue to have an opinion about something they know nothing about, this car is powered by an electric motor. This motor is powered by either battery reserve or the on-board gasoline engine. The engine runs just slightly over idle as it essentually a generator. The gas engine does not provide propulsion of any kind. No need to find a charging station.
Is the car expensive? Yes Is the car practical? No Will the payback from gas savings offset the cost? Probably not.
All these questions have been beat like a dead horse and are not new.

This is a niche vehicle. It is expensive but new technology always is. Practical, well it only fits certain peoples driving styles and for those that live within 20 miles of work. Gas savings well again that comes back to you have to start somewhere. To not ever build the car would be the real crime. As someone else posted, Should we just sit back and wait for the Chinese or japanese to develop the technology so we can play catch up?

It typically takes 4 years to launch a vehicle. Everyone has heard the saying "dont buy a first year car", Yea you know why because there are just to many changes that are made to improve the car after a bunch are made. Thats why cars like Lamborghini have such horrible quality. They dont build enough cars to work out all the bugs. So are they big POS because they have problems?

The car is what it is. If it doesnt work for you fine dont buy it. That doesnt mean its a POS. If the alternative fuel source doesnt justify the extra cost again it doesnt make it a POS. Just not very economical. The same could be said for many other vehicles. To just ignoir advancements and turn a blind eye to future technology would dumber than anything GM has ever done in the past, and they have done some really stupid things before.

[This message has been edited by rstubie (edited 03-07-2012).]