quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: Keep in mind that three of the four women accusers already have cash settlements from the National Restaurant Association along with non-disclosure agreements.

The association signed and settled the agreements. Cain never signed them, and it appears they were done *after* he'd left the organization.

Cain did not sign settlement, accuser's lawyer says
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301...ccusers-lawyer-says/

The settlement agreement between the National Restaurant Association and a woman who accused Herman Cain of sexual harassment was reached in September 1999--and was not signed by Cain himself, according to Joel Bennett, a lawyer for the woman.

Bennett, who has a copy of the settlement agreement, said four people signed it: the woman, two lawyers representing the association and Bennett himself.

Bennett said the agreement was resolved relatively quickly, about two or three months after she complained.

That means it may have been reached after Cain left the association, and Bennett said it's conceivable that Cain didn't even know about it.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: The association signed and settled the agreements. Cain never signed them, and it appears they were done *after* he'd left the organization. Cain did not sign settlement, accuser's lawyer says http://www.cbsnews.com/8301...ccusers-lawyer-says/ The settlement agreement between the National Restaurant Association and a woman who accused Herman Cain of sexual harassment was reached in September 1999--and was not signed by Cain himself, according to Joel Bennett, a lawyer for the woman. Bennett, who has a copy of the settlement agreement, said four people signed it: the woman, two lawyers representing the association and Bennett himself. Bennett said the agreement was resolved relatively quickly, about two or three months after she complained. That means it may have been reached after Cain left the association, and Bennett said it's conceivable that Cain didn't even know about it.

read my post again. That's what I said.

I don't agree with those who say "where there's smoke there's fire" or that innocent people don't settle. there are Pyrrhic battles you might win because you are innocent, but the fight would be so costly that, in the end, it just isn't worth it.

Still, one such complaint could be passed off as a fluke. But four? Maybe five? Maybe more? That suggests a pattern of behavior, and not a good one. I will wait to see when the facts are in, but anyone has to admit, this is troubling.

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: BTW hearsay is when you tell something to someone, then that person relates it in court. "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - Inigo Montoya, "The Princess Bride"

Exactly. The only "witnesses" to be paraded so far are friends of the accusers, who were not there, and can only provide hearsay. As in - "She told me it happened, weeks/months/years after it was supposed to have happened, but I believe her!" I'm not sure what part of what I wrote you think you're correcting...

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 11-12-2011).]

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: Exactly. The only "witnesses" to be paraded so far are friends of the accusers, who were not there, and can only provide hearsay. As in - "She told me it happened, weeks/months/years after it was supposed to have happened, but I believe her!" I'm not sure what part of what I wrote you thing you're correcting...

You do realize, don't you, that this type of harrassment almost always takes place in private. Right? So it is always "he said she said". The predators are COUNTING on that!

Hearsay in court is different than speaking in public. That is what I was correcting.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Two deflections but no answer. Typical liberal tactic. You can't handle actual debate and you can't face that your saviors are flawed. I'll bet you were hoping I *wouldn't* mention Clinton, because he DID get caught - several times - harassing women, messing around on his wife, and so on. Really, Tigger, you Democrats are pathetic.

I don't remember Clintons situation ever being referred to as harassment. Wasn't it consensual? Big difference. As far as lying about it, I don't condone lying but a lot of guys lie about infidelity. It's pretty common. If I were buying a used car from Clinton I would keep my hand on my wallet. No evidence, but that's just the feeling I get about him. Which president left the country in better condition at the end of their term? Clinton or Dubya?

quote Originally posted by dratts: I don't remember Clintons situation ever being referred to as harassment. Wasn't it consensual? Big difference. As far as lying about it, I don't condone lying but a lot of guys lie about infidelity. It's pretty common. If I were buying a used car from Clinton I would keep my hand on my wallet. No evidence, but that's just the feeling I get about him. Which president left the country in better condition at the end of their term? Clinton or Dubya?

No, it was rape charges. It wasn't consensual. Damn! You got that one WAY WRONG AND OFF!

"Sheila O'Grady, who is close with David Axelrod and went straight from being former Chicago mayor Richard M. Daley's chief of staff to president of the Illinois Restaurant Association (IRA), as being the person who dug up Herman Cain's personnel records from the National Restaurant Association (NRA).

The Daley-controlled IRA works hand-in-glove with the NRA. And strangely enough, Cain's short, three-year tenure at the NRA is evidently the only period in his decades-long career during which he's alleged to have been a sexual predator.

After O'Grady's name surfaced in connection with the miraculous appearance of Cain's personnel files from the NRA, she issued a Clintonesque denial of any involvement in producing them -- by vigorously denying that she knew Cain when he was at the NRA. (Duh.)

And now, after a week of conservative eye-rolling over unspecified, anonymous accusations against Cain, we've suddenly got very specific sexual assault allegations from an all-new accuser out of ... Chicago.

Herman Cain has never lived in Chicago. But you know who has? David Axelrod! And guess who lived in Axelrod's very building? Right again: Cain's latest accuser, Sharon Bialek. "


You know, Maybe Herman had a few drinks and slid his hand on Stiffler mom or maybe it's the shitty Democratic Party hack sewage spiller.

Either way, the Republican Congress left the country in decent shape after Clinton and the Democratic controlled government ruined it after Dubya.

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 11-12-2011).]

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Two deflections but no answer. Typical liberal tactic. You can't handle actual debate and you can't face that your saviors are flawed. I'll bet you were hoping I *wouldn't* mention Clinton, because he DID get caught - several times - harassing women, messing around on his wife, and so on. Really, Tigger, you Democrats are pathetic.

You want to talk deflections to the debate pal. Bringing up Clinton into this discussion is a direct deflection of the issue with Cain. It's a deflection period. Before you call someone pathetic better take a good look at yourself.

That said, I liked Clinton for the most part but the scandal tarnished his presidency. I don't consider him a "savior" as you put it by any stretch. No more a "savior" than Bob Packwood is to you anyway.

quote Originally posted by Tigger: You want to talk deflections to the debate pal. Bringing up Clinton into this discussion is a direct deflection of the issue with Cain. It's a deflection period. Before you call someone pathetic better take a good look at yourself.

Jesus Christ, Tigger, have you NO sense of humor?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Jesus Christ, Tigger, have you NO sense of humor?

So when you said, "...you Democrats are pathetic", you were just being humorous?

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: So when you said, "...you Democrats are pathetic", you were just being humorous?

No, I was being serious. And accurate.

quote Originally posted by Wichita:First I ever heard about rape. Who made a rape accusation? No, it was rape charges. It wasn't consensual. Damn! You got that one wrong Either way, the Republican Congress left the country in decent shape after Clinton and the Democratic congovernment ruined it after Dubya.

Who filed rape charges? Clinton left office with a half trillion surplus. Dubya left office with 1 1/2 trillion deficit.

[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 11-12-2011).]

quote Originally posted by dratts: Who filed rape charges?

I am not aware of any *rape* charges, but there was at least one sexual harassment charge and there was a settlement:

Paula Jones
http://www.legalzoom.com/le...ual-harassment-cases

quote Clinton left office with a half trillion surplus. Dubya left office with 1 1/2 trillion deficit.

Who actually passes a budget, the President or Congress? Which party controlled congress in those two situations?

Sorry, my bad. Republicans always good. Democrats always bad. I get it now.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: No, I was being serious. And accurate.

Then why would you respond with "Jesus Christ, Tigger, have you NO sense of humor?"

You seem to be saying that you were being humorous when you denigrated tens of millions of Americans as well as dratts. Which is it, serious or humorous?

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Then why would you respond with "Jesus Christ, Tigger, have you NO sense of humor?" You seem to be saying that you were being humorous when you denigrated tens of millions of Americans as well as dratts. Which is it, serious or humorous?

Different posts, different people, different contexts. Geez. It this *really* that hard for you to understand?

I hit both partys when I see that they're wrong (in my opinion). I don't recall ever seeing one of your posts that criticized the republican party or agreeing with the democratic party. If you have ever done that I will take your posts more seriously.

quote Originally posted by dratts: Sorry, my bad. Republicans always good. Democrats always bad. I get it now.

And when anyone says otherwise they are hypocrites!

I forgot about Paula Jones. Didn't she get a nose job out of it? kind of like the NRA settlement. Maybe he was guilty. Wasn't a rape charge though was it? The groping charge on Cain isn't sexual harassment, it's sexual assault.

quote Originally posted by dratts: I forgot about Paula Jones. Didn't she get a nose job out of it? kind of like the NRA settlement. Maybe he was guilty. Wasn't a rape charge though was it?

Right. Which I ALREADY SAID.

quote The groping charge on Cain isn't sexual harassment, it's sexual assault.

You would think. But she never reported it to the police, to the NRA, or anyone evidently until Cain became a serious contender for the GOP nomination. Doesn't that at least have the *appearance* of being opportunistic?

quote Originally posted by newf: There's a full thread for his criticism of Republicans, though sometimes he seems to miss some stories. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/081897.html

I just skimmed the thread, but it seemed to me that his criticism of the republican party is that it's not far enough right wing.

quote Originally posted by dratts: I hit both partys when I see that they're wrong (in my opinion). I don't recall ever seeing one of your posts that criticized the republican party or agreeing with the democratic party. If you have ever done that I will take your posts more seriously.

REALLY, dratts? Even newf acknowledges my criticism of the GOP, and he never admits to ANYTHING.

quote Originally posted by newf: There's a full thread for his criticism of Republicans, though sometimes he seems to miss some stories. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/081897.html

I've had PLENTY to say about the GOP, but I'll repeat it for you here. As far as I'm concerned, most of the GOP are nothing more than establishment, political machine hacks. They haven't been truly conservative for a LONG time. The GOP should be torn down and rebuilt like you would an condemned building. Bush wasn't conservative enough. He and the Congress cut taxes but not spending, which was WRONG. I've said all those things recently, in various threads. Got it?

quote Originally posted by dratts: Who filed rape charges? Clinton left office with a half trillion surplus. Dubya left office with 1 1/2 trillion deficit.

Juanita Broaddrick is an American former nursing home administrator from Arkansas. She alleged in 1998 that United States President Bill Clinton had raped her two decades earlier. Clinton's attorney denied the allegations on his client's behalf.

---------

One thing to know about our system of government. We do not have a monarchy or dictatorship. Before I go over your head and explain in detail, I'll just cut to the chase and make it very simple for you to understand.

The Congress of the United States of America controls and is fully responsible for the budget of the Federal Government. The President has nothing to do with it.

Who takes the large credit for the budget surplus in the few years in the late 90's was Newt Gingrich.

It goes both ways. It isn't fair to say that Obama is creating huge budget deficits. It isn't Obama, it was Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. Obama can't do anything about the budget, how to spend it, where to spend it, how much to spend and how to get the money to spend it. All Obama can do is suggest or ask for it.

Get it now?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: I've had PLENTY to say about the GOP, but I'll repeat it for you here. As far as I'm concerned, most of the GOP are nothing more than establishment, political machine hacks. They haven't been truly conservative for a LONG time. The GOP should be torn down and rebuilt like you would an condemned building. Bush wasn't conservative enough. He and the Congress cut taxes but not spending, which was WRONG. I've said all those things recently, in various threads. Got it?

Oh, I get it alright. Keep holding their feet to the fire!

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: You do realize, don't you, that this type of harrassment almost always takes place in private. Right? So it is always "he said she said". The predators are COUNTING on that!

Yes, I do. I did not say he did not do it, or that these women are lying, I simply said there is, as of yet, no proof and what the media keep parading around as "witnesses" are not witnesses at all.

quote Originally posted by ktthecarguy: Hearsay in court is different than speaking in public. That is what I was correcting.

Actually, no. Hearsay is a term typically used in court, however the definition is the same regardless.

hear·say/ˈhi(ə)rˌsā/
Noun: Information received from other people that cannot be adequately substantiated; rumor.

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 11-12-2011).]

The woman Cain first said he never heard of and didn't remember, the one that came out recently? Eye witness reported seeing them together at a political rally last month, a few weeks before his denial. She confronted him, after some conversation where he went from smile to straight face, his handlers came and got him to take him to the stage for a speech.

I'm thinking he's got early onset Alzheimer's, especially after seeing his Perry-like lapse when asked about Libya the other day. No joke, his inability to remember recent significant facts and events is textbook.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: You would think. But she never reported it to the police, to the NRA, or anyone evidently until Cain became a serious contender for the GOP nomination. Doesn't that at least have the *appearance* of being opportunistic?

I think it has the appearance of somebody holding her cards until the time was right to play them. I also think somebody knew about all of these women(at least the first two) and made them an offer they couldn't refuse. OTOH, if he really did harass them, it makes sense for them to want a little payback.

Tonight on a local Atlanta TV station, another accuser came forward. This is a respectable Atlanta business woman who did not seek to reveal her relationship with Herman Cain. Rather, a news station investigative team was contacted by someone else who knew of the affair. Their continued efforts convinced the woman to tell her story.

She purports to have carried on a continuous affair with Mr. Cain for the past 13 years. She says she knew he was married and that the relationship was inappropriate but she chose to continue the affair. She showed phone records of calls and texts to Mr. Cain, totaling over 60 exchanges in the past few months.

She said that Mr. Cain was always a gentleman, never degrading toward her or any other woman. He was very respectful of women in general and that what we see of him on the campaign trail is the real Herman Cain. He's not putting on political face to get elected.

This appears to be the real deal and unfortunately, possibly the end of a campaign and the possibility of having someone in office that could really help to minimize the damage done by current politicians. I was really hoping for a Gingrich/Cain or Cain/Gingrich ticket. Not only for the country, but to dispel the notion that southerners are as asinine as Jimmy Carter.

Cain likes himself a little companionship on an overnight plan, doesn't he?

He's an older gentleman going after some MILF's, especially the Stifler's Mom look-a-like. So his taste is ok.

I'm not for sure if he is the sexual harassment type. It's most likely just after the fact payback kind of stuff. But he's done, which is a sad, but it's reality at this point of time.

You run for office and the skeletons will come out like a Micheal Jackson Thriller Video. Too many bones will scare people away, especially the uptight Christian Conservative Republican voters.

Newt is now in the front seat driving.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Cain likes himself a little companionship on an overnight plan, doesn't he? He's an older gentleman going after some MILF's, especially the Stifler's Mom look-a-like. So his taste is ok. I'm not for sure if he is the sexual harassment type. It's most likely just after the fact payback kind of stuff. But he's done, which is a sad, but it's reality at this point of time. You run for office and the skeletons will come out like a Micheal Jackson Thriller Video. Too many bones will scare people away, especially the uptight Christian Conservative Republican voters. Newt is now in the front seat driving.

If Newt is the choice I would rather vote Obama. This dirty campaigning is getting old.

Brad

Well, if nothing else, if this long term relationship did happen. There will be proof. So if this plays out the way it looks now Herman is gone. I just cannot imagine a woman coming out and saying she was his paramour for 13 years without it being true, unless she is totally demented. I don't think it will take long to figure that out.

quote Originally posted by fierofool: This appears to be the real deal and unfortunately, possibly the end of a campaign and the possibility of having someone in office that could really help to minimize the damage done by current politicians. I was really hoping for a Gingrich/Cain or Cain/Gingrich ticket. Not only for the country, but to dispel the notion that southerners are as asinine as Jimmy Carter.

Heard she in unemployed, a litigator with a few sexual harassment cases under her garter belt.
She needs to produce proof of the plane trips into the cities on the dates Cain was there.

quote Originally posted by MadMark: Well, if nothing else, if this long term relationship did happen. There will be proof. So if this plays out the way it looks now Herman is gone. I just cannot imagine a woman coming out and saying she was his paramour for 13 years without it being true, unless she is totally demented. I don't think it will take long to figure that out.

True or not it's probably the end for Cain. False or not the media will make it story #1 for the next month. They seem to do that with people that make them nervous.

Brad

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Heard she in unemployed, a litigator with a few sexual harassment cases under her garter belt. She needs to produce proof of the plane trips into the cities on the dates Cain was there.

You haven't heard of this woman, yet unless you can get the Atlanta TV stations. This is breaking as a local story. I expect it will break on a national level in the next day or so.

The woman is NOT unemployed. She is a very successful business woman, and she is NOT a young MILF. She appears to be around Herman's age. She was very well-dressed, very well spoken, and wasn't belligerent or aggressive. Very reserved woman.

quote Originally posted by fierofool: You haven't heard of this woman, yet unless you can get the Atlanta TV stations. This is breaking as a local story. I expect it will break on a national level in the next day or so. The woman is NOT unemployed. She is a very successful business woman, and she is NOT a young MILF. She appears to be around Herman's age. She was very well-dressed, very well spoken, and wasn't belligerent or aggressive. Very reserved woman.

Dude, it was on the national news today, "In other news Herman Cain continues his campaign to try and convince the world he's not a cheating manwhore who tries to rape women." (loosely quoted, but it's close enough to what they implied.)

Brad

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com...man-cain-20111127-es

This is the link to the story that broke on the local 6PM news. I watched Fox News Network most of the day. If it was on there, I must have missed it. This was an exclusive interview given to Atlanta's Fox5 reporter Dale Russell.

Edited to retract the denial of sexual harassment charges etc. in her past. I just read the above link and it's clearly stated that she's had some questionable things in her past. This information didn't come out in the interview I saw. Even with that in her background, this woman appears fully credible. I do think his political career is done.

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 11-28-2011).]

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Heard she in unemployed, a litigator with a few sexual harassment cases under her garter belt. She needs to produce proof of the plane trips into the cities on the dates Cain was there.

Curious how the burden of proof is so much higher for some than it is for others...