ive had an ex that i was conviced was the antichrist....thats why she is an ex. well short of green vomit and a rotating head anyway......
Oh, so YOU are the poor SOB that got to date Joan after we broke up....sorry dude. OH, BTW, its wasnt pea soup. The beech really IS straight from the pits of hell.
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09:04 PM
USFiero Member
Posts: 4879 From: Everywhere and Middle of Nowhere Registered: Mar 2002
Not a scholar here, a believer and full-on sinner saved by the grace of god. Funny how that gets people riled up.
Pretty sure, no other indication that the Antichrist will be male - so you ladies are off the hook. I would side with the statement by one of the recent popes that Antichrist spirit has always been around, the actions of one who hates so deeply and yet is able to convince many to commit evil and call it good has been repeated over and over. What Christians are waiting for, but will never be present to witness is the final consolidation of the Antichrist's influence.
The Bible to me is a mix of historical perspective, divine communication and direction for mortals to prepare for eternity. I think the fundamental problem for people is to imagine what/who God is, why prophets were/are important, and who/what the person/authority Jesus Christ was/is.
As I understand it, Christian believers will be gone from the face of the earth at just the moment the Antichrist announces himself to the world. The action - and it is pretty specific - is for him to go into the rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem and declare himself God. And people will be okay with that. There are different Rapture/Tribulation perspectives to go with this - that the rapture will occur just before the Tribulation, that it will happen midway through, and some that think it has already happened.
My meager understanding of prophecy is that it hasn't happened yet, but the rest of the events that predicate it are imminent.
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10:33 PM
Patrick's Dad Member
Posts: 5154 From: Weymouth MA USA Registered: Feb 2000
john the B wrote NOTHING and died early before JC died
john the D wrote the letters of john maybe
the G of john is by a 3rd guy not B or D as the style is different then the letters and john the B was long dead by the time it appeared
the rev of john is by a 4 john who's greek and style is different from the letter or the G and appeared way too late [after 130 ace] to be B D or G and it is a rehash of the book claimed to be by Danial but danial is written 300+ later then the claimed date based on style and greek words used ....
Your claims do not carry the weight of good scholarship.
John the Baptist, indeed, did not write any of the books in question. He was prophesied about, as one crying in the wilderness. He fulfilled prophecy and, like most prophets, was killed for his witness.
John the G, I would guess, it the writer of the Gospel (Hence the "G"). I'm not sure what the D stands for, but I'll assume that you infer John the Elder, a Third Century church leader cited by Papias, as referenced by Eusebius (265 - 340AD), therefore, a secondary mention.
So, we look at three different styles of books, supposedly written in three different styles. Strange? Can we say that any author, at any date, writes a historical descriptive (Written specifically to a Jewish audience referencing the fulfillment of Prophecy), personal letters and a "vision" (for lack of a better term) all in the same style? John, self identified in both the Gospel and Revelation, refers to Jesus both as the Word (John 1:1, Revelation19:13), the "Lamb" (John 1:29, Revelation 5:6) and the "shepherd" (John 10:11 and Revelation 7:17). Both the Gospel and Revelation strongly contrast light and darkness, truth and falsehood, etc. The author of Revelation understood his importance, especially in the Jewish mind (Not a 3d century probability), as he eats a scroll (10:10), much as Ezekiel (3:1), not to be taken lightly. It is widely seen in the NT that the Apostles were well aware of the high level of significance of their positions - even your favorite target, Paul - and the author of Revelation confers authority of his writing in 22:18 - 19, similar to Deuteronomy 4:2 (Another evidence of Jewish authorship).
Revelation was written from Patmos (1:9). Eusebius, reported that John was released from (imprisonment on) Patmos by the emperor Nerva (96 - 98AD), so authorship would be some time in the late first century, likely 81 - 96AD.
Just as there is more evidence that the Bible is a historical document that is incredibly well preserved over its thousands of years of authorship, there is more evidence that the Apostle John is the writer of the Gospel, the Epistles and Revelation than speculation that he is not.
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10:58 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
I didn't mark this as religion, as I didn't want to exclude anyone. I figure that those who don't want to be involved will get their clue from the title.
My question is simply: According to the Bible, Book of Revelation, and your personal understanding and belief, would it be possible for the Antichrist to be of either gender? Or is that position reserved for a male only?
Thanks.
Dude, the Antichrist has been here since the first century. The Apostles talked about them and how they subvert the teachings of the Christ. Look around. They are everywhere.
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11:13 PM
Patrick's Dad Member
Posts: 5154 From: Weymouth MA USA Registered: Feb 2000
Dude, the Antichrist has been here since the first century. The Apostles talked about them and how they subvert the teachings of the Christ. Look around. They are everywhere.
True. The spirit of antichrist has been here from the beginning, and will be with us until the time He has chosen.
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11:16 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
Here's a clue. They like to waltz around with fancy clothes with lofty titles in front of their names. They like to be seated next to world leaders at their right hand.
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11:29 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 39074 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
I'm a full Calvinist... but I also know that no one will be perfectly devoted to the church because we're still sinners.
And yes, I completely, and unreservedly believe that God has chosen people for salvation, and can absolutely, and positively prove it from the Word in 30 seconds.
And I will dare say that it is the atheists and agnostics who are the ignorant ones who have indoctrinated themselves with atheistic cultic teachings.... It's been the truly saved Calvinists for hundreds of years that have been intelligent and godly men who have preached the Gospel of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to masses of people and by God's grace multitudes have been saved.
Wichita, it's time for you to repent and be saved. Look to Jesus and ask Him to truly save you.
If you read roman history, and compare the bibles stories of the anit-christ, and stories surrounding him, the anti-christ was the Roman Emperor Nero.. There are lots of stories that link Nero with being the anti-christ, plus out of all the roman emperors, he was probably the hardest on the Christians than any other..
So in my opinion, the Anti-christ died along time ago..
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09:05 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
If you read roman history, and compare the bibles stories of the anit-christ, and stories surrounding him, the anti-christ was the Roman Emperor Nero.. There are lots of stories that link Nero with being the anti-christ, plus out of all the roman emperors, he was probably the hardest on the Christians than any other..
So in my opinion, the Anti-christ died along time ago..
The problem with that though is Revelation was written some 25-30 years after Nero died....
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09:41 AM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
You mean someone should not be rated for being a troll?
No, just what it means; "In matters of taste there is no dispute". I say 1/3, you say 20%. It's a matter of viewpoint. You may not count some that I do.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-07-2011).]
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11:15 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
No, just what it means; "In matters of taste there is no dispute". I say 1/3, you say 20%. It's a matter of viewpoint. You may not count some that I do.
Yep many viewpoints. Pretty cool system that we can cast individual votes, and change our minds along the way as long as the person is still around.
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11:28 AM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
Yep many viewpoints. Pretty cool system that we can cast individual votes, and change our minds along the way as long as the person is still around.
I was not refering to "trolls" as much as people who "stir up trouble where there was none to begin with", which I classify as digging into someone soley for the sake of digging into them, with no real intent in sharing viewpoints, exchanging information, or allowing others their opinions or beliefs without taking it to the "personal insult" level. Name calling.
That's the "third" I was refering to.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-07-2011).]
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11:42 AM
PFF
System Bot
TommyRocker Member
Posts: 2808 From: Woodstock, IL Registered: Dec 2009
The Bible says a lot of things, most of which are contradicted by other parts of the Bible. It is a book made up of letters and books written by outcasts and scholars and drunkards and madmen, hundreds of years apart, then edited, rewritten, edited again, and mashed together by politicians who knew the power religion has over the ignorant and the fearful.
Now, throw modern agenda based interpretation on top..and you have a real mess.
For example:
People use the Bible to bash homos, but they gloss over the part where the Bible mentions Joseph(Jesus' human father) having two "fathers".
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11:50 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
I was not refering to "trolls" as much as people who "stir up trouble where there was none to begin with", which I classify as digging into someone soley for the sake of digging into them, with no real intent in sharing viewpoints, exchanging information, or allowing others their opinions or beliefs without taking it to the "personal insult" level. Name calling.
That's the "third" I was refering to.
Those / trolls, similar enough for me. Yep, they get negs.
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11:51 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
People use the Bible to bash homos, but they gloss over the part where the Bible mentions Joseph(Jesus' human father) having two "fathers".
Luke3: 23-38
23 When Jesus began his ministry he was about thirty years of age. He was the son, as was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, 25 the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, 27 the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, 29 the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, 31 the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 13 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon, 33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan, 38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
-- You refer to the difference in Matthew and Luke?
"Luke is recording Mary’s genealogy and Matthew is recording Joseph’s. Matthew is following the line of Joseph (Jesus’ legal father), through David’s son Solomon, while Luke is following the line of Mary (Jesus’ blood relative), though David’s son Nathan. There was no Greek word for "son-in-law," and Joseph would have been considered a son of Heli through marrying Heli's daughter Mary. Through either line, Jesus is a descendant of David and therefore eligible to be the Messiah. Tracing a genealogy through the mother’s side is unusual, but so was the virgin birth. Luke’s explanation is that Jesus was the son of Joseph “so it was thought” (Luke 3:23)."
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 11-07-2011).]
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11:56 AM
TommyRocker Member
Posts: 2808 From: Woodstock, IL Registered: Dec 2009
The Bible says a lot of things, most of which are contradicted by other parts of the Bible. It is a book made up of letters and books written by outcasts and scholars and drunkards and madmen, hundreds of years apart, then edited, rewritten, edited again, and mashed together by politicians who knew the power religion has over the ignorant and the fearful.
Now, throw modern agenda based interpretation on top..and you have a real mess.
Content appearing to contradict itself is explained by old laws being passed away and all things becoming new through Jesus. Of course translating a book between languages has its challenges. But an unbiased document scholar will agree that the Bible has been remarkably well preserved. Bibles from the 14th century A.D. and 3rd century A.D. are nearly identical. Then you have the Dead Sea Scrolls, scholars were shocked to see how similar they were to other ancient copies of the Old Testament, even though the Dead Sea Scrolls were hundreds of years older than anything previously discovered. The Bible has been transmitted over the centuries far more accurately than any other ancient document. Believe what you will.
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12:16 PM
TommyRocker Member
Posts: 2808 From: Woodstock, IL Registered: Dec 2009
Is there anything more than a theory to say that is the reason for the discrepancy?
How about this one?
ACT 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."
MAT 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field."
Seems cut and dry.
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12:17 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Is there anything more than a theory to say that is the reason for the discrepancy?
How about this one?
ACT 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."
MAT 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field."
Seems cut and dry.
Its always good to search out both sides of an argument.
-
When Judas tried to return the money, the priests couldn’t take it back because it was tainted, so they used it to buy a field from a potter. It was money belonging to Judas that paid for the field, so indirectly, he bought it. This transaction was prophesied by Zechariah about 500 years earlier. (Zech. 11:12-13)
Judas hung himself on a tree. How long did his body hang? Does it eventually fall? When he hit the ground he burst open. It’s not clear how long he hung before this happened, could have been sometime later after his body had begun decomposing.
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12:27 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
The gender is basically a male. The Antichrist is the same old recycled story of the demon or god that ruled the underworld.
Hades (the brother of Zeus) in Greek Mythology was the God of the Underworld much like the devil would have been in Christian mythology, although Greek Mythology is much older than even Genesis, so it makes the Christian Bible, especially the New Testament nothing more than recycle mythology stories borrowed from each other.
But then some Christians sects believe that anybody that denies Jesus as the Son of God as antichrist and therefore the Antichrist could be plural and include both men and women, children and little newborns.
I like this!
I also am bothered that Christians are more put out with Atheist than Jews. I mean the Jews spit in their face and say Jesus was one of them and a POS. I like the Jewish community better than Christians too. Remember the crusades?
EDIT I do wish this rapture thing would happen soon.I am tired of these nut jobs knocking on my door. Speaking of which the next person that knocks gets shot with a crossbow. Because it is loaded, the insturctions say don't dry fire it, and my buddy says I will blast right throw my fence and pretty much everything else I have that I wanted to stop it with. ------------------ Pull up to the stop light. Looking at this cop like. Yeah I drive big ish. No my license ain't right.
[This message has been edited by ls3mach (edited 11-07-2011).]
EDIT I do wish this rapture thing would happen soon.I am tired of these nut jobs knocking on my door....
That won't stop. There are those who call themselves "Christians," that are severely evangelical. The ones who have stopped knocking on your door. Those are the ones that you should have taken note of.
Not enough Christians go door to door (myself included), whilst many cults, Christian or otherwise, do. Perhaps that is a flaw of Human nature. God gives us something that we didn't have to do anything for (He did it Himself) and we don't have to maintain. The cultists are trying to work their way into Heaven (impossible), so they are frantically looking for converts. The Bible repeatedly says that Jesus looked on a person that He was interacting with and He loved that person, or He had compassion for that person, etc. We (or at least, I - the only one that I can speak for) rarely look through His eyes to see what He sees in anyone. I've tried to be more compassionate here on the Forum, as well as other places in my life, but I have a long way to go.
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05:41 PM
kyunderdawg Member
Posts: 4373 From: Bowling Green, KY. USA Registered: Aug 2008
Aaahhhh. The never ending argument of religion. Constant bashing from both sides.
Not religion. Faith.
I am not saved by the Church that I go to. I am not saved by what denomination I call myself. I am not saved by my parents, my wife, my kids, my friends or my country.
I am saved because of what He did for me. I am saved by an act that I do not deserve - never have and likely never will - nor will I ever earn it. It's simple, yet it is about the most complex thing in the Universe.
I Cor 1:27 - 31: But God chose what the world thinks foolish to shame the wise, and God chose what the world thinks weak to shame the strong. God chose what is low and despised in the world, what is regarded as nothing, to set aside what is regarded as something, so that no one can boast in his presence. He is the reason you have a relationship with Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”
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06:37 PM
kyunderdawg Member
Posts: 4373 From: Bowling Green, KY. USA Registered: Aug 2008
There are reprecussions to forcing scripture. Constant bombarding others with it tends to push people further away as well as the actions of so called Christians (not calling anyone here a "so called Christian"). Just sayin'.
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06:53 PM
Patrick's Dad Member
Posts: 5154 From: Weymouth MA USA Registered: Feb 2000
Not trying to force anything. Rather, referencing where I get my crazy ideas.
If I were to say that "Infinity" is a theoretical construct, you would ask me for a proof. I say that Faith is all that is required for salvation (after all, this is a discussion about antichrist), and I present a proof. You can accept or deny either proof - your choice, though one has greater consequences than the other.
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06:57 PM
kyunderdawg Member
Posts: 4373 From: Bowling Green, KY. USA Registered: Aug 2008
Not trying to force anything. Rather, referencing where I get my crazy ideas.
If I were to say that "Infinity" is a theoretical construct, you would ask me for a proof. I say that Faith is all that is required for salvation (after all, this is a discussion about antichrist), and I present a proof. You can accept or deny either proof - your choice, though one has greater consequences than the other.
I know what you're sayin'. I just haven't been to church in two years now and have no desire to return. This is where I take resposibility of my own path. I've allowed the actions of "so called Christians" to push me away or give up for the time being. Most of those so called Christians are at my job, but some are at church.
No need to preach to me.
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07:04 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 41363 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Originally posted by kyunderdawg: Aaahhhh. The never ending argument of religion. Constant bashing from both sides.
Not constant, and hardly "bashing", with a minor exception or two. 'tis to be expected. It's quite a "hot button" topic. Actually, this thread has stayed much more civil than pretty much any of the political threads. Mostly, I've been reading peoples' points of view.
I think everyone for their consideration and their thoughts.
