Crime & Courts - US Taking Liberties: Bright Lights, Big Trouble
By Douglas Kennedy
Published October 13, 2011
| FoxNews.com
Print Email Share Comments
Erich Campbell thought he was being helpful. The Florida Highway patrolman thought he was being obnoxious and disrespectful and gave him a $101 fine.
“I couldn’t believe it,” said Campbell as he paced next to Veterans Highway in Tampa, Fla.
“I was in complete disbelief.”
Campbell’s crime?
He flashed his headlights to alert oncoming cars after passing that patrolman’s speed trap.
“It’s something I do,” he explained. "I don’t think it should be against the law."
In December 2009, the patrolman was set up on the southbound side of Route 589 near the Tampa International Airport. In a recording of the stop, the officer told Campbell he had seen his lights flashing. “It’s illegal,” he said before giving him a ticket that read “improper flashing of high-beams.”
Campbell eventually got the ticket dismissed, but he recently filed a class-action lawsuit against the state over writing similar citations.
Why?
“Because the state was rolling the dice (with me), he said. “They figured most people aren’t going to challenge it, and I think it’s about time someone actually did.”
Campbell estimates 2,600 other “highbeam-helpers” received summonses between 2005 and 2010. He says most simply chose to pay their fines.
“Someone has to stand up,” he says, referring to the tickets as a “huge money-maker” for the state, not to mention a "blatant violation of the right to free speech.”
“I have the right to communicate with my fellow drivers,” he said. “That’s my right.” Guaranteed, he said, by the U.S. Constitution.
It’s a legal stance that’s caught the attention of law enforcement across the country.
“He has a definite different interpretation of the U.S. Constitution than I do,” said Thomas Ruskin. “And than most members of law enforcement.”
Ruskin is a former New York Police Department detective and current police advocate. He says flashing high beams is dangerous and clearly illegal.
“It's illegal because you're warning someone,” he explained. “It's the same thing as saying, 'run, here comes the cops,' You're obstructing a cop from doing his lawful duty.”
He said citizens do not have the right to interfere with a police action that is under way.
“He is aiding law-breakers,” said Ruskin. “He is warning people who are speeding to slow down. His intent is to impede the police.”
It’s a point Campbell says is impossible to prove.
“I may simply not like speeders and am telling others to slow down. They can’t prove my intent.” Campbell maintains he has a “right to communicate” with fellow drivers.
“This is the way I communicate,” he said. “They can’t stop me from communicating.”
The Florida Highway Patrol would not comment on Campbell’s ticket or his lawsuit. It has, however, temporarily halted all summonses for headlight flashing.
“We have told our people to stop issuing citations on that,” said spokesman Capt. Mark Brown, “pending the outcome of the litigation.”
The case could go before a judge in the next couple months.
Their (Police) reasoning that he is aiding law breakers is against the letter of the law in Florida which expressly forbids the use of flashing lights on a vehicle, including the high beams except to signal a turn or signal that a vehicle is non-operational on a motorway.
He technically broke the law. But the reasoning behind it being free speech is wrong as well.
If he doesn't want to pay the fine for doing it, he needs to petition to have the law changed, and hope he gets enough signatures and that it makes it to a bill.
This is not a free speech issue. Never has been, never will be.
Their (Police) reasoning that he is aiding law breakers is against the letter of the law in Florida which expressly forbids the use of flashing lights on a vehicle, including the high beams except to signal a turn or signal that a vehicle is non-operational on a motorway.
He technically broke the law. But the reasoning behind it being free speech is wrong as well.
If he doesn't want to pay the fine for doing it, he needs to petition to have the law changed, and hope he gets enough signatures and that it makes it to a bill.
This is not a free speech issue. Never has been, never will be.
Just my two cents.
Going to have to agree with you on that. besides there are better ways of telling someone a cop is ahead, Like waving a big azz flag out the window
IP: Logged
12:29 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
He's not obstructing the police from doing their job. It's no different than saying so someone getting ready to shoplift, "Hey, you should put that back or pay for it."
They're actually trying to punish someone for encouraging another to obey the law.
If flashing the lights violates the law, then that's a moving violation and not obstruction of official duty.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 10-13-2011).]
IP: Logged
12:31 PM
jaskispyder Member
Posts: 21510 From: Northern MI Registered: Jun 2002
He's not obstructing the police from doing their job. It's no different than saying so someone getting ready to shoplift, "Hey, you should put that back or pay for it."
They're actually trying to punish someone for encouraging another to obey the law.
If flashing the lights violates the law, then that's a moving violation and not obstruction of official duty.
bongo... and that equals loss of revenue for the cops, im surprised they didn't taser his ass or plant drugs in his trunk.
Going to have to agree with you on that. besides there are better ways of telling someone a cop is ahead, Like waving a big azz flag out the window
wrong yet again new sock puppet the pigs on the highway patrol mis used the law the law is about emergency lights like a cop or fire truck uses and bans automatically flashing lights it has NOTHING to do with turning on and off a headlight manually the case has been decided in count the pig lost
btw flashing headlites is an international warning signal of danger ahead it is not just about speed traps you want people arrested for warning of a wreak blocking the road ?
wrong yet again new sock puppet the pigs on the highway patrol mis used the law the law is about emergency lights like a cop or fire truck uses and bans automatically flashing lights it has NOTHING to do with turning on and off a headlight manually the case has been decided in count the pig lost
btw flashing headlites is an international warning signal of danger ahead it is not just about speed traps you want people arrested for warning of a wreak blocking the road ?
You're very lucky you didn't say that to my face, I had family that died in the line of duty you worthless scum bag. before you go spouting your BULLSHIT about someone you better check yourself. All you want to do is disrespect people calling them names because you feel so much better doing it behind that computer screen where you are safe and no one can correct you the way you need to be corrected. You would be well advised to never refer to a Police officer as a "pig" again. And since you just know everything then you would know that it is the DUTY OF THE DRIVER to be on the look out for wreaks, obstructions and dangers in the road, instead of drinking your double Moca, while talking on the cellphone and watching a dvd maybe you should pay attention to the road dirt bag?
IP: Logged
03:01 PM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
You're very lucky you didn't say that to my face, I had family that died in the line of duty you worthless scum bag. before you go spouting your BULLSHIT about someone you better check yourself. All you want to do is disrespect people calling them names because you feel so much better doing it behind that computer screen where you are safe and no one can correct you the way you need to be corrected. '
' But you calling someone a dirtbag or scumbag from behind your computer screen is what?
' But you calling someone a dirtbag or scumbag from behind your computer screen is what?
so what one post wasn't enough for you? you have to argue with me in multiple posts? don't you have something better to do? like go and pick fights with other individuals on the same intellectual scale as you? I'm sure you can find a preschool somewhere. go hide back under the rock you came from.
IP: Logged
03:15 PM
PFF
System Bot
Xyster Member
Posts: 1444 From: Great Falls MT Registered: Apr 2011
' But you calling someone a dirtbag or scumbag from behind your computer screen is what?
They're several states away so it had to be this way. Besides, this way we get to watch.
On a serious note, I agree that the intent for the law may be for flashing lights on emergancy vehicle. However, isn't the intent of the speed trap to get everyone to be safe? Flashing lights to the others accomplishes just that. If the intent is NOT safety, then it's taxation through citation and screw the law.
*disclaimer: I am not a lawyer or law student and I do not work in law enforcement, just my $.02*
[This message has been edited by Xyster (edited 10-13-2011).]
IP: Logged
03:16 PM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
so what one post wasn't enough for you? you have to argue with me in multiple posts? don't you have something better to do? like go and pick fights with other individuals on the same intellectual scale as you? I'm sure you can find a preschool somewhere. go hide back under the rock you came from.
So is this how you react in real life when people challenge your logic? It's refreshing that you are not just some internet tough guy.
So is this how you react in real life when people challenge your logic? It's refreshing that you are not just some internet tough guy.
no it's just your a troll. You have no real reason to be here or to post on this you just want to troll and start arguments. I was in no way addressing you in any fashion but it wasn't until you wanted to start crap in another post and then bring it into other posts, why? because you are a troll. Get a life.
You're very lucky you didn't say that to my face, I had family that died in the line of duty you worthless scum bag. before you go spouting your BULLSHIT about someone you better check yourself. All you want to do is disrespect people calling them names because you feel so much better doing it behind that computer screen where you are safe and no one can correct you the way you need to be corrected. You would be well advised to never refer to a Police officer as a "pig" again. And since you just know everything then you would know that it is the DUTY OF THE DRIVER to be on the look out for wreaks, obstructions and dangers in the road, instead of drinking your double Moca, while talking on the cellphone and watching a dvd maybe you should pay attention to the road dirt bag?
listen up PUNK
you are the troll and a punk troll at that
you need to shut up with the name calling of people here and stop acting like a PIG cop who exceed their authority ARE PIGS and nothing else
you are wrong about the law [and a whole lot more]
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
ive flashed my high beams at a cop not knowing he was a cop to warn him about another cop lol but nothing happened and if anything i would have come up with some lame excuse like i was going to turn and hit my high beams
I have had enough of this punk we need to speed bann this punk
So tell me rayb when was the last time you had a .45 pointed directly at your head? my Brother-in-law has, have you? all he did was pull the guy over for expired tags. We couldn't even give him an open casket burial.
But let me get this straight you can call me all the derogatory remarks in the book but when I take personal offense to the ridiculous bull that comes out of your mouth I need a speed ban? if anyone needs a speed ban it is you buddy. Your damn comments about "teabaggers" are vulgar and in every case not warranted in the slightest. even now your avatar features a "don't Teabag on me". and anytime anyone disagrees with you, they are instantly labeled an idiot, puppet, accused of religious dogma left and right with every single post you can't even come up with something original! You are nothing but a spineless punk who has done it all seen it all and knows it all, Well I've got news for you buster you've not done anything but sit on your ass and just try and talk down to people because they have a difference in views. your first post to me on this thread was nothing but hostility and an attack on me calling me more names. why don't you grow a pair!
I have had enough of this punk we need to speed bann this punk
For what? Standing up to you? Just because you don't agree with someone means they automatically deserve to be banned? Really? Feeling a little self important today are we? Get over yourself and go feed the cat or something.
IP: Logged
05:09 PM
PFF
System Bot
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
All government agencies feel they can do anything they please. Its legal for them to trap you, but illegal to help someone avoid that trap. Being a violation of freedom of speech is a big reach there though. Most places, people flash lights, day or nite, to indicate a passing car is clear to pull back in line. Its also a legal signal your going to pass someone. Its even a signal to an oncoming car that hes left his bright lites on. I know a few places its illegal. I flash mine at oncoming brights and passing truckers every day. I think the cops are morons....theyre just in it for the money. It dont even come close to being unsafe which is supposed to be the reason for issuing traffic tickets in the first place.
IP: Logged
05:24 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
There is no actual law prohibiting anyone from flashing their headlights here. The police were giving out bogus tickets and they expected most would not fight them. I guess they picked on the wrong person this time and this has become a big news story.
Talked with the local cop about this the other day.
He said that Missouri now made it legal for them to sit partially hidden, with their lights off.
I told him that I would rather he sat with his lights on, as he was supposed to be keeping people safe, not generating revenue. If people see him they will slow down and be safe, he's done his job. Instead he turns off his lights, and makes money off of them.
Two days later I got a ticket (warning) for uncut grass at my shop.
Go figure. Oh well, I was trying to wait until a little later and get it once more instead of twice before winter.
Brad
IP: Logged
06:02 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 41346 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
You're very lucky you didn't say that to my face, I had family that died in the line of duty you worthless scum bag. before you go spouting your BULLSHIT about someone you better check yourself. All you want to do is disrespect people calling them names because you feel so much better doing it behind that computer screen where you are safe and no one can correct you the way you need to be corrected. You would be well advised to never refer to a Police officer as a "pig" again. And since you just know everything then you would know that it is the DUTY OF THE DRIVER to be on the look out for wreaks, obstructions and dangers in the road, instead of drinking your double Moca, while talking on the cellphone and watching a dvd maybe you should pay attention to the road dirt bag?
For what? Standing up to you? Just because you don't agree with someone means they automatically deserve to be banned? Really? Feeling a little self important today are we? Get over yourself and go feed the cat or something.
for when shown to be wrong he attacks on a personal level no o-well he was in error just telling me he wants to hurt me for calling the PIG on PIG power triping BS PIGS CHIT tickets not just in this thread but over and over why do we need a no-nothing newbe spewing insults here let him go over with shawn and the other trolls on RFF
IP: Logged
06:58 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
no it's just your a troll. You have no real reason to be here or to post on this you just want to troll and start arguments. I was in no way addressing you in any fashion but it wasn't until you wanted to start crap in another post and then bring it into other posts, why? because you are a troll. Get a life.
I like the part where you attack Jeff and suggest that he has the intelligence of a preschooler and would be no match for a man of such intellectual caliber as yourself. Then you cannot spell the word wreck, or figure out that it is "you are" or "you're". I also like how you imply violence and threats to Ray and call him a person who hides behind a computer monitor. Irony? Huh. Also how come you can call people names, but he can't? Double standard?
Your (this is the time when you use that word) signature resembles Ray's old one very much.
I don't think we can "speed ban" Ray, he has been here like 10 years. Do you actually know what that term means?
There is no actual law prohibiting anyone from flashing their headlights here. The police were giving out bogus tickets and they expected most would not fight them. I guess they picked on the wrong person this time and this has become a big news story.
the whole story is the cops were exceeding their authority by mis applying the law to manually flashing speed trap warnings
the basic case went to court a few months ago the cops/state lost as the law was a ban on automatic flashing lights not about turning off a light as a signal SO now there is a class action suit asking the drivers ticketed and who paid a fine both have the records wiped and their money refunded by the state
everyone agrees the cops were wrong now the question is money and records
btw tort reform would have stopped almost all class action suits inc this one that is why I do not like GOP tort reform
IP: Logged
08:38 PM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
So tell me rayb when was the last time you had a .45 pointed directly at your head? my Brother-in-law has, have you? all he did was pull the guy over for expired tags. We couldn't even give him an open casket burial.
Hey man, it's always rough when a relative dies. Especially a peace officer in the performance of his duties. What is his name? I am sure there are many articles about this on the internet. Do you have any links?
For what? Standing up to you? Just because you don't agree with someone means they automatically deserve to be banned? Really? Feeling a little self important today are we? Get over yourself and go feed the cat or something.
for when shown to be wrong he attacks on a personal level no o-well he was in error just telling me he wants to hurt me for calling the PIG on PIG power triping BS PIGS CHIT tickets not just in this thread but over and over why do we need a no-nothing newbe spewing insults here let him go over with shawn and the other trolls on RFF
Right and you haven't ever done that have you? You've not started posting calling someone derogatory names accusing them of having some religious dogma and accusing them of being inferior have you? ohh wait that sounds like EVERY SINGLE POST YOU EVER MAKE.
quote
Originally posted by ls3mach:
I like the part where you attack Jeff and suggest that he has the intelligence of a preschooler and would be no match for a man of such intellectual caliber as yourself. Then you cannot spell the word wreck, or figure out that it is "you are" or "you're". I also like how you imply violence and threats to Ray and call him a person who hides behind a computer monitor. Irony? Huh. Also how come you can call people names, but he can't? Double standard?
Your (this is the time when you use that word) signature resembles Ray's old one very much.
I don't think we can "speed ban" Ray, he has been here like 10 years. Do you actually know what that term means?
I'm with Cooter on this, the whole thing is dumb.
No where in anything that I said ever once had any threat or imply violence to anyone at all. as far as the typos I really could care less I was mad and had enough out of him to last me the rest of the year and then some but he continually opens his mouth to keep fueling the fire to continue and argument farther with the same bs as always. I also didn't say that he NEEDS to be banned rather if anyone is deserving of it, it would be him. I don't go around attacking people just because they disagree, call people derogatory names even after they know that it upsets people then use it some more.
quote
Originally posted by WhiteDevil88:
Hey man, it's always rough when a relative dies. Especially a peace officer in the performance of his duties. What is his name? I am sure there are many articles about this on the internet. Do you have any links?
I wouldn't give you any information on myself much less my family or in-laws family purely on the basis that you are a troll with nothing better to do with your time.
IP: Logged
10:45 PM
WhiteDevil88 Member
Posts: 8518 From: Coastal California Registered: Mar 2007
One would think that you would be proud of his sacrifice. I guess everyone can draw their own conclusion about your veracity, in the absence of some documentation.
One would think that you would be proud of his sacrifice. I guess everyone can draw their own conclusion about your veracity, in the absence of some documentation.
ohh I don't care what you think, if anyone wants to find out they can pm me and I will tell them their But I'm not giving out names and info on my family, you might like doing that but I actually respect people, and people in my family, something you would know nothing about.
ohh I don't care what you think, if anyone wants to find out they can pm me and I will tell them their But I'm not giving out names and info on my family, you might like doing that but I actually respect people, and people in my family, something you would know nothing about.
So you are saying that you feel safer from behind the screen than out in the open?
I find it interesting that someone that specifically designed their avatar to make fun of one member can go off on someone for being a troll like that. That's another what you call it moments.
So you are saying that you feel safer from behind the screen than out in the open?
I find it interesting that someone that specifically designed their avatar to make fun of one member can go off on someone for being a troll like that. That's another what you call it moments.
Brad
no, I don't give a damn if he knows who I am, and like I said if anyone wants to know about him they can message me and I will tell them who he was, I'm not putting his information out in the open no matter how much you want me to. I have no qualms with meeting someone face to face if they want to, and no before someone starts their bs about how I'm threatening someone I said meet I never said anything about confrontation. but I'm still not going to put up with someone that has for weeks called me names, and an idiot, derogatory remarks, make assumptions about my religious faith and how it powers my motives only to turn around and call people who protect him and put their life on the line FOR HIM, and he has such an udder disrespect for everyone and anyone that has anything to say. It doesn't matter if you agree with him or not he still will fight you on something. Enough is enough and he crossed the line. I take someone calling someone else a "pig" based solely on the basis of their profession, (kind of like how he does the same with the position you take on politics, or not even that you could like the color white and he likes the color red and you are wrong, racist or have some religious dogma that powers your like or dislike of a color and their for are nothing but a sock puppet.)highly offensive, I mean if someone walked into your relatives work place and just shot them and drove away, and he called what ever that profession something completely derogatory based on nothing more than your relative was a worker there doing their job, would that not make you mad? I'm sure you wouldn't have handled it the way that I did but I take it seriously when it comes to that because not only did it hurt me but it also hurt the most important people in my life.
as far as the avatar goes I changed it after he changed his to the "don't teabag on me" bull, if he can why can't I? I don't see anyone talking about that. I'm the bad guy but yet he's done this crap for longer than I've been here something like 10 years it looks like?
IP: Logged
09:45 AM
dsnover Member
Posts: 1668 From: Cherryville, PA USA Registered: Apr 2006
Back on topic: Freedom of speech. Just because the police don't LIKE the speech has nothing to do with it. Several states have already had this issue move through the courts, and it has been held as free speech. (I'm pretty sure that New Jersey has had this already come up, as an example).
Now, on the flip side, if you are alerting someone YOU KNOW is committing a crime, and directing them away from being caught, that would be aiding and abetting, and thus is 'obstruction', and should be punished accordingly. Flashing your high beams certainly doesn't rise to that standard in _most_ cases (yes, I can think of at least one case that it would be an obstruction - say, with participating in street racing where you are the 'lookout').
