I myself have still reserved judgement, but did you bother to read any of This page to see what evidence was being presented. There's more to this story than simply a misshapen skull.
I am aware of that skull. It's already been determined to be a case of hydrocephalus and the DNA samples were unambiguously human. Again, if it showed that it wasn't human, then I would put it on the list as a possible piece of evidence. But so far, it hasn't even remotely be show to be anything of than human. Maybe that could change.
When that website releases their data for peer analysis, I will give them some credence if it holds up to scrutiny.
[This message has been edited by TK (edited 05-26-2011).]
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07:42 PM
Flamberge Member
Posts: 4268 From: Terra Sancta, TX Registered: Oct 2001
I see it in the same light as the mythical cure for cancer. One can argue that the cure is kept from everyone so they can continue to sell multiple drugs that don't quite cure it but keep the money rolling in vs. understanding the extraordinary amount of money that could be made from actually curing it. Add to that the marketing power of being able to say "We Cured Cancer. What's Next?"
Proof that aliens exist could not be contained.
I am not saying they don't, only that we don't have any credible evidence. We don't. We have anomalies that are passed off as proof.
And as much as you want it to be true, I want it to be true even more. You can put me at the top of the list of people that want it to be true. But I am not going to grasp at straws to satisfy my desire.
I get what you are saying, but I think you are missing the point where things like this are concerned. Any kind of "fringe" science gets scoffed at by the mainstream. Many scientists don't go out on a limb for things like this, so the research that could be done does not get done.
I don't think things are being passed off as proof. I think things are being passed off as evidence of a truth that mainstream science refuses to look into, because doing so will ruin careers and more importantly reputations.
I don't necessarily *want* there to be alien life - especially intelligent life advanced enough to come here. If they did, there is a chance they might enjoy wiping us out. I would just like the research into the possibility to get an honest shot. Besides SETI and a few NASA programs, most alien life evidence gets brushed away like a yesterday's crumbs.
I am aware of that skull. It's already been determined to be a case of hydrocephalus and the DNA samples were unambiguously human.
Regarding the DNA samples, your conclusion seems to fly in the face of what was presented Here. If this skull was from a human/alien 'hybrid" for example, there'd obviously be some human DNA "matches".
In regards to your comment about the skull having "already been determined to be a case of hydrocephalus", I can only conclude you didn't read This page at all.
quote
Hydrocephaly is often suggested as the cause of the unusual parietal bossing (bulging of the bones at the rear sides of the skull) in the Starchild Skull. It is a condition where an abnormal accumulation of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) in the cranium causes an increase in internal pressure that pushes outward against the skull, giving it an unusual "inflated" shape. A 2004 study led by Dr. Ted Robinson concluded that the Starchild Skull morphology is not the result of Hydrocephaly.
I don't care if you believe any of this or not, as I'm on the fence myself, but it doesn't add much to the discussion when presented evidence is cast aside with little regard.
I get what you are saying, but I think you are missing the point where things like this are concerned. Any kind of "fringe" science gets scoffed at by the mainstream. Many scientists don't go out on a limb for things like this, so the research that could be done does not get done.
I don't think things are being passed off as proof. I think things are being passed off as evidence of a truth that mainstream science refuses to look into, because doing so will ruin careers and more importantly reputations.
I don't necessarily *want* there to be alien life - especially intelligent life advanced enough to come here. If they did, there is a chance they might enjoy wiping us out. I would just like the research into the possibility to get an honest shot. Besides SETI and a few NASA programs, most alien life evidence gets brushed away like a yesterday's crumbs.
Yeah, I get your point and I agree, evidence is sometimes suppressed when it doesn't support a predetermined outcome. It sucks because we often get screwed over because of it. But I am only speaking in terms of there being evidence of aliens having visited earth. I just don't think it has happened and I have yet to read anything that remotely supports it.
I am not saying it has *never* happened because I can't prove that negative. If I had to go with a non-scientific gut feeling and go to Vegas and bet if there is alien life out there somewhere (intelligent or not), it would be there is. As I said before, since we are here, we know it's possible. You can't ignore that evidence. And just one additional life-form opens the door for a multitude. It would be unbelievable good in many ways.
I also agree with you that maybe we don't want them to be out there though. We can't just assume they would be benevolent or even at least compatible.
[This message has been edited by TK (edited 05-26-2011).]
Since traveling those distances requires extraordinary means bordering on violating even the most basic laws of physics, it's has to be dang good evidence.
I don't think that's an unreasonable request.
Actually, the problem is the use of BASIC Physics. I am not physicist by any means, but from what I understand, more recent discoveries about ADVANCED physics have yielded what seems to be working methods for traveling vast distances in space. I have read (but not fully understood) some amazing theories on bending space with use of what is becoming widely accepted theory of Multiple dimensions.
Just because we cannot do it yet, does not mean it can't be done by an older more advanced race.
I don't care if you believe any of this or not, as I'm on the fence myself, but it doesn't add much to the discussion when presented evidence is cast aside with little regard.
It was *regarded* in 1999 when one of the first test were done. The data and procedures from those tests were made readily available. The data from this recent effort has not. They quote data and draw conclusions but don't make all of it available. Yes, until they go full open-kimono I will dismiss it.
Lastly, nowhere have I told you to not believe it. I have no need for you to believe or not believe anything. I don't believe them yet. If they allow other experts to review their data and it supports their conclusions, that would be damn good evidence. It sounds like you are upset that I don't believe you personally. Don't be. I am only responding to the comments about my thoughts I posted in response to the OP question.
Aliens may exist, but the power required to travel the distances between different parts of the galaxy are too great. Current theroies state we need to harness the power of a black hole to travel those distances. Even using the power of one sun doesnt do it.
What is interesting though is NEC corporation while testing photonic transistors found you could send light faster than the speed of light (it gets there before you send it). They were testing methods to improve computer processing power.
It sounds like you are upset that I don't believe you personally.
Not at all. If anything, I was disappointed (from the point of view of open honest discussion) that you would state "hydrocephaly" accounted for the "weird skull" when it was explained rather well on This page why that wasn't the case.
That would be with OUR current knowlege. Who knows how advanced travel would be to someone a million years advanced over us. Just go back 200 years and show someone a jet fighter or even a car. The government will NEVER voluntarily admit theres evidence of them. It would take something like the movie Day the Earth Stood Still (original, not the lame remake) where a 200' spaceship lands on the lawn in front of the White House to make them tell you the truth.
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08:50 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 36410 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
What is interesting though is NEC corporation while testing photonic transistors found you could send light faster than the speed of light (it gets there before you send it). They were testing methods to improve computer processing power.
This sets up the possibility of being able to communicate forward and backward in time.
So it may be more likely we develop time communication and travel before the ability to travel around the galaxy.
Geez, do I dare post a link to This which was also being discussed on Coast to Coast AM last week?
Honestly, this was the strangest, weirdest subject I've ever heard about in my life. (I'm 55) What made it almost scary to me is that the guy sounded completely rational when being interviewed. I don't know what to make of his experiences.
Not at all. If anything, I was disappointed (from the point of view of open honest discussion) that you would state "hydrocephaly" accounted for the "weird skull" when it was explained rather well on This page why that wasn't the case.
Because it represents a more likely and consistent explanation with valid evidence than the skull(s) being alien or human hybrids. Lloyd Pye has been pushing this for many years and refuses to accept any contrary evidence. He has no problem accepting the science that makes his webpage work but dismisses it when it doesn't confirm his theory. This is a long running effort on his part He is making the claim and needs to prove it, but it continues to be anomaly hunting, hand waving and just plain bad science. When he allows for peer review I will listen again.
I read through much of that site as you asked and my position remains the same. I believe we need to look elsewhere for proof. On the other hand, I support you continuing to consider it as evidence if you feel strongly about it. You may become more convinced or you might back away as I did.
I believe in aliens and I beileve the Bible is full of stories about them.
Ezekial is a crazy read, I recomend it to everyone. Take notice of the reference of "sons of God" and "sons of man"
Sodom and Gomorrah is also pretty interesting. Two "angels" hide in Lot's house, so, they are not invincible and they are not human. They then strike people down with blindness. It seems back then their technology was similar to what ours is now.
http://bible.cc/matthew/24-5.htm Here is a quick reference to aliens coming here to fool us into worshiping them. Ask yourself who the "many" are and where do they come from?
I also believe it may be possible that God flooded the world because of all the inbreeding. Noah was a just man who found favor in God. Or, was he just a man who God saved to replenish the Earth? A mutant skull shouldn't be out of what we should expect to see.
There are many instructions for us about being fruitful and replenishing the Earth, so it seems that our population may be what keeps them away despite their technology.
I'm not saying that God doesn't exist. I believe he does exist, we just don't have the full picture yet.
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09:26 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 36410 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
I support you continuing to consider it as evidence if you feel strongly about it.
I don't feel "strongly" about Lloyde Pye's evidence, but I do feel strongly about not dismissing someone's research simply becasue it doesn't jive with my own beliefs. I'm not necessarily suggesting that's what you're doing, but let's be honest, it happens all the time.
I don't feel "strongly" about Lloyde Pye's evidence, but I do feel strongly about not dismissing someone's research simply becasue it doesn't jive with my own beliefs. I'm not necessarily suggesting that's what you're doing, but let's be honest, it happens all the time.
It absolutely does.
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09:43 PM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
I hate it when people ask me if I "believe in" aliens and/or UFOs, as if it's some kind of religion, and if I say no I'll be tagged as a "non-believer". No, I don't believe in it with religious fervor. And I think to do so would be foolish.
That said, I find it hard to believe that homo sapiens is the only sentient life in the Universe. There are (or were, or will be) probably many sentient civilizations. But the Universe is so vast, and the timing so tricky, that we will probably never meet any of them.
As for UFOs... well, they are UFOs (unidentified flying objests). Yes, there are many unidentified flying objects every day, all around the world. Just because they aren't identified, that doesn't make them mystical, magical, or alien life forms. It just means the observers couldn't identify them. IMO, there really isn't much of anything to "believe in" there.
[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 05-26-2011).]
TK, if you study the topic, you will find alot of convincing hard data to support an alien presence.
Look at the long list of American heros, men with huge reputations and legacies, they have come forward and stated Aliens are real and the govt. has kept it on the down low through misinformation campaigns.
Buzz Aldrin Gordon Cooper Allen Mitchel Sgt. Major Robert Dean (former NATO Allied Commander) Colonel Phillip Corso
Colonel corso is a huge hitter, here is his resume
"After joining the Army in 1942, Corso served in Army Intelligence in Europe, becoming chief of the US Counter Intelligence Corps in Rome. In 1945, Corso arranged for the safe passage of 10,000 Jewish World War II refugees out of Rome to the British Mandate of Palestine. During the Korean War (1950–1953), Corso performed intelligence duties under General Douglas MacArthur as Chief of the Special Projects branch of the Intelligence Division, Far East Command. One of his primary duties was to keep track of enemy prisoner of war (POW) camps in North Korea.[2] Corso was in charge of investigating the estimated number of U.S. and other United Nations POWs held at each camp and their treatment. At later hearings of the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, Corso provided testimony that many hundreds of American POW's were abandoned at these camps.[3][4] Corso was on the staff of President Eisenhower's National Security Council for four years (1953–1957). In 1961, he became Chief of the Pentagon's Foreign Technology desk in Army Research and Development, working under Lt. Gen. Arthur Trudeau. When he left military intelligence in 1963, Corso became a key aide to Senator Strom Thurmond. In 1964, Corso was assigned to Warren Commission member Senator Richard Russell Jr. as an investigator into the assassination of John F. Kennedy." Colonel Corso states the following: "Aliens are real, the govt. has known about it, and the people deserve to know...their ready".
Corso also confirms the existence of the super-secret oversight group usually called "MJ-12," though he says the group has gone mostly by other names. His list of original members in that group is identical to the list in the famous "Eisenhower Briefing Document." He also describes how an overall UFO cover-up strategy was set in motion by General Nathan Twining and others immediately after the Roswell incident -- just as researchers such as Stanton Friedman have long surmised -- and says the official cover-up was a highly orchestrated process with two parallel objectives: first, to keep the most sensitive facts about alien technology and visitation away from America's enemies, which necessarily meant keeping them from the general population; and second, to gradually desensitize the public, with a mix of real and nonsensical UFO information, toward some future time when the reality of alien visitation would become public knowledge. Why would men like these say such things? I believe they wouldn't. The have nothing to gain by speaking out and everything to lose. When men with huge creditability come out and make statements, I stop and listen.
There has also been confirmed radar records of various cases where the objects are not only going at impossible speeds, they are making sudden right angle turns that would tear a plane or human apart. I have personally spoken to fighter pilots who have been scrambled to chase such objects.
just something for you to think about.
[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 05-26-2011).]
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10:15 PM
PFF
System Bot
cliffw Member
Posts: 35931 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
TK, if you study the topic, you will find alot of convincing hard data to support an alien presence.
Look at the long list of American heros, men with huge reputations and legacies, they have come forward and stated Aliens are real and the govt. has kept it on the down low through misinformation campaigns.
Colonel corso is a huge hitter, here is his resume
...
just something for you to think about.
I remember the book but didn't read it. I did a quick search and came up with a couple of sites containing similar information to this one:
Which one do we go with? Seems there are some conflicting "facts" in his story. It would be very easy to confirm the date conflicts this guy raises. Not so much for Corso's "facts" in his book.
[This message has been edited by TK (edited 05-27-2011).]
Which one do we go with? Seems there are some conflicting "facts" in his story. It would be very easy to confirm the date conflicts this guy raises. Not so much for Corso's "facts" in his book.
hes just one of many big names though. again, despite his book, I have a hard time writing off what this guy says. He was very respected in military circles.
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12:12 AM
pavo_roddy Member
Posts: 4351 From: State with a city named Gotham Registered: Apr 2004
YEP!! Totally agree with all those above that talk about how YOUNG humans are to what WE THINK how old the stars are... Actually remember this from a video I saw back in the mid-90's. Don't remember what video, but it was a documentary, IIRC! It went: If life were put into the span of only a 24 hour period, then humans would only have been alive the last few seconds... Hearing something like that knocks the wind from your sails man!
------------------ Me, I sell engines, the cars are for free, I need something to crate the engines in.... Enzo Ferrari....
Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.... Enzo Ferrari...
Today they are called garage's, yesterday, they were stable's! Eric Jacobsen.... An advancement, of other voices I came across.
hes just one of many big names though. again, despite his book, I have a hard time writing off what this guy says. He was very respected in military circles.
Exactly. The argument from authority. He's a famous and smart person. He must be right. He must be telling the truth. Not necessarily. They could be sincere or just liars. Who knows. In the end, they never come up with something you can sink your teeth into. It's always one government employee out of reach.
Gordon Cooper was emphatic about his experiences but when they talked to other people with him, they don't recall anything of the sort. Film of the landing saucer? With out the film it's just anecdotal. Find the film.
well, for me this is perhaps the largest piece of evidence ever. It was never explained, in fact the U.S. thought it was the Russians at first, they scrambeled fighters to intercept. Thousands witnessed it for all to see. It really happened and its pretty damn good in my book as far as footage goes.
Im talking about the massive fly overs of the capital in 1952
well, for me this is perhaps the largest piece of evidence ever. It was never explained, in fact the U.S. thought it was the Russians at first, they scrambeled fighters to intercept. Thousands witnessed it for all to see. It really happened and its pretty damn good in my book as far as footage goes.
Im talking about the massive fly overs of the capital in 1952
I'm not convinced they are flying saucers but it's certainly worth pursuing. I don't dismiss everything out of hand but I don't leap to aliens from outer space either. They are definitely UFOs!
Skepticism serves me well.
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12:58 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43225 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
There is also the Piri Reis map, from Turkey, which shows S. America in not only great detail - but also with proper global proportions. Which was compiled around the same time as Christopher Columbus from earlier sources. The detail & the geometery is WAY advanced for the time. But, being we have a "whitewash" of history - I do not discount the idea that black & arabs may have actually discovered & mapped the americas WAY before Columbus.
Search for these topics and read some of the contrary arguments. If you believe these deep-dives into Buzz and Gordo's fact aren't valid, that's fine. But the stories they tell seem to be difficult to support when you peel the layers off the onion. I can't take those videos as the only "proof" needed without any criticism.
I will say this for Buzz, he isn't not making all that strong of a claim about direct proof of aliens spacecraft. I take his comments to say it was weird, not the booster, some amount of specific shape was identifiable but he never flat out says it was an alien spacecraft. This isn't proof. It only something to consider in the investigation. However, I have always felt the wrong guy got out of the LM first. When it comes to promoting space exploration, Buzz is the man.
Gordo on the other hand has some explaining to do. His representation of the events seem to be in conflict with others that were involved and even they are perplexed at his comments.
[This message has been edited by TK (edited 05-27-2011).]
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01:07 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Ive never heard anyone dispute or present an argument against a pre Columbus map showing Antartica before it was covered in ice. And modern technology like satellite and ground penetrating radar verify its accurate. The TV series The Event could be very accurate and aliens were here long before we were.
If you believe in God, the bible says we were created by him in his image. Why would he only put us here on this tiny spec out of the millions of other similar planets that there has to be. Even if you dont, the law of averages puts intellegent life on a lot of them simply by the numbers.
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01:17 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43225 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
If you believe in God, the bible says we were created by him in his image. Why would he only put us here on this tiny spec out of the millions of other similar planets that there has to be. Even if you dont, the law of averages puts intellegent life on a lot of them simply by the numbers.
This is a phrase used on some cable tv channels shows pushing the idea that we were seeded by Aliens. This is not a phrase interpreted the same as many believe.
" On the last day of creation, God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness” (Genesis 1:26). Thus, He finished His work with a “personal touch.” God formed man from the dust and gave him life by sharing His own breath (Genesis 2:7). Accordingly, man is unique among all God’s creations, having both a material body and an immaterial soul/spirit.
Having the “image” or “likeness” of God means, in the simplest terms, that we were made to resemble God. Adam did not resemble God in the sense of God’s having flesh and blood. Scripture says that “God is spirit” (John 4:24) and therefore exists without a body. However, Adam’s body did mirror the life of God insofar as it was created in perfect health and was not subject to death.
The image of God refers to the immaterial part of man. It sets man apart from the animal world, fits him for the dominion God intended him to have over the earth (Genesis 1:28), and enables him to commune with his Maker. It is a likeness mentally, morally, and socially...." more at link: http://www.gotquestions.org/image-of-God.html
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01:24 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43225 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Ive never heard anyone dispute or present an argument against a pre Columbus map showing Antartica before it was covered in ice. And modern technology like satellite and ground penetrating radar verify its accurate. .
Yet we are to believe that the reason Ice melts is because we drive too many cars.
