http://www.detnews.com/arti...2%80%99+as+big+as+GM

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com...ington-20110412-wpms

quote ""We should not be sitting right across the street from General Motors, which we supported their bailout from President Obama and others, and not seek to have a Marshall Fund kind of investment to rebuild this city. We are worth it. We are worth at least as much as General Motors and Chrysler, which received significant investment from this government. We are worth at least as much as those Wall Street firms who received a significant investment. We are worth at least as much as all of those folks and all those firms have gotten investments from this federal government because it was this city that built the military vehicles after World War II that helped this nation come alive. It was this city that created middle class, that created five day workweeks, that created organized labor. It was this city that this nation owes so much to, and we should not take a position of being victims. We are victors," Watson said Tuesday.

Yeah Right--sure ya are--that's why the victorious rats are leaving your stinkin sinking ship of a town.

(A hint for you JoAnn, ya gotta file bankruptcy first)
They'll probably get their US taxayer funded bailout too---there's an election coming up and it's gonna be a close one. There's more than one way to buy votes--ehh JoAnn?
A Billion here--a Billion there--(before ya know it, we're talkin real money.)

What a bunch of loozers.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-14-2011).]

I'll play.
"Yeah, that's right. WE supported nobama. That's why we have a pass on ObamaCare."

Such a dangerous mentality.

I was proud of my state when I went and sat in on the Senate and they were discussing extending unemployment. The Federal government was handing out money to each of the states; the states just had to accept the money.

One Senator boldly asked what would happen to that money if we didn't accept it. Nobody seemed to know the answer. Oh yeah, it goes back to the feds. The Dems said they'd just use it for something else. The Rep Senator said "That's not my problem. All I can do is what I can do, and I don't think we should accept this money. We should give it back to them at the very least as a token to say we don't accept handouts."

Eventually, the Dems convinced the Reps to accept it about a week later anyways, but I was still proud for awhile.

------------------

I'm young, impulsive, and naïve; but I'm learning.

‎"Of all the illusions that beset mankind none is quite so curious as that tendency to suppose that we are mentally and morally superior to those who differ from us in opinion."
- Elbert Hubbard

quote Originally posted by theBDub: .... but I was still proud for awhile.

Reading between the lines ....
.. a short while.
Stand up and be proud of yourself. Go back and get in some one's face.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Reading between the lines .... .. a short while. Stand up and be proud of yourself. Go back and get in some one's face.

I am proud of myself (how could I not be??)

I am also still proud of my city's Senator and STL's Senator for their voices, even though it didn't get passed. I just was bragging to my family and friends how awesome Missouri was then they accepted it anyways and I looked like an idiot.

Also, I am an idiot. So much so that I don't even know it. So much so that I won't even believe it.
God blesses the idiots.

You guys don't realize who's talking. Detroit City Council is so far out of touch with reality, I can't think of a funny to compare it to. They totally ignore the facts, make up their own, pander to those who help them. Detroit it finally realizing they have a $200 million deficit but they still want to burn through tons of money. Gotta go or I'll throw in more.

Yeah Detroit... sigh... not much more can be said, but I say put the money into bulldozers and start at the river and move west.

BTW, I just heard our sister city in Canada is $12M in debt and they are thinking about spending another $5M for a rec center. The city wants to impose an 8% property tax increase to pay for it all. HUH? Oh well, no skin off my nose, it is another country

You honestly can't blame them for being mad at General Motors and Chrysler. They got a combined 52 billion dollars in bailouts, with another 16 billion in escrow to be used as a fail-safe. But to make it nice and simple, they KEPT 52 billion that never would be paid back.

Where did that go? Who ended up getting that? The stock holders and bond holders didn't get it, so who got it?

The UAW got it...


Imagine if you HAD spent 52 billion dollars, instead, rebuilding and renovating parts of the city? These guys are probably right... you probably could have fixed up the whole damn city for 50 billion dollars. I don't blame them for being mad. I don't think they shoudl get it, but they should be totally angry that GM and Chrysler got it.

So we had a mayor who went to prison and would do the same thing again, there's a congresswoman who wants leniency:

quote Ex-City Council Woman Asks For Home Confinement DETROIT -- Former Detroit City Council member Monica Conyers wants to return to Detroit to continue serving out her 37-month prison term for bribery. In the hand-written request Conyers asks the court to consider her work and educational background and family ties into the likelihood that she would commit another crime. It also says she is concerned for her son because his caretaker is returning to school soon. Conyers suggested that home confinement could be an alternative. The request was filed April 6. U.S. District Court in Detroit. Conyers is serving her sentence at a minimum-security prison in Alderson, W. Va., after pleading guilty in June 2009 to taking at least $6,000 in cash bribes. She tried to withdraw the guilty plea but her motion was denied.

A mayor who thinks he can slam dunk his way thru the problems, pay-to-play ethics for businesses trying to make it, a school district that has rooms of new, unused computers and flatscreen tvs that is past going bankrupt, an emergency financial manager who is drooling over complete power over the school board, paramedics getting fired because they're complaining about the broken down ambulances and beyond poor response times for emergencys (police have taken people to the hospital in their cruisers because of the 45 minutes it's taking), ad nauseam

Another political thread not marked political. When it's willful, like a 2 year old disobeying his parents, is it stupidity? Or just garden-variety vandalism? I know it's not stupidity because the topic creator is obviously able to write. In fact, I've met him, and he seems like a nice guy in person, but on this forum he's a prick.

Don, if it was a mistake not marking this correctly as political you can change it and I'll sincerely apologize for calling you a prick. But if it was deliberate then I suppose the miscategorization will stand and so will my assessment of your character and honor.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Another political thread not marked political. When it's willful, like a 2 year old disobeying his parents, is it stupidity? Or just garden-variety vandalism? I know it's not stupidity because the topic creator is obviously able to write. In fact, I've met him, and he seems like a nice guy in person, but on this forum he's a prick. Don, if it was a mistake not marking this correctly as political you can change it and I'll sincerely apologize for calling you a prick. But if it was deliberate then I suppose the miscategorization will stand and so will my assessment of your character and honor.

You know the odd thing is looking over the Posting Rules, I don't see any that say you have to categorize a thread any specific way.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Another political thread not marked political. When it's willful, like a 2 year old disobeying his parents, is it stupidity? Or just garden-variety vandalism? I know it's not stupidity because the topic creator is obviously able to write. In fact, I've met him, and he seems like a nice guy in person, but on this forum he's a prick. Don, if it was a mistake not marking this correctly as political you can change it and I'll sincerely apologize for calling you a prick. But if it was deliberate then I suppose the miscategorization will stand and so will my assessment of your character and honor.

This thread isn't political in its nature. It's an alarming story considering the mentality of some people and something to continue to be aware of. Grow up JazzMan.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Another political thread not marked political. When it's willful, like a 2 year old disobeying his parents, is it stupidity? Or just garden-variety vandalism? I know it's not stupidity because the topic creator is obviously able to write. In fact, I've met him, and he seems like a nice guy in person, but on this forum he's a prick. Don, if it was a mistake not marking this correctly as political you can change it and I'll sincerely apologize for calling you a prick. But if it was deliberate then I suppose the miscategorization will stand and so will my assessment of your character and honor.

Your perseverating with this issue, don't you have anything better to "hang your hat on?"

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Your perseverating with this issue, don't you have anything better to "hang your hat on?"

It's a test of wills. The will of a handful of political bullies on this forum versus the will of me, one man, trying to make a change. Here's what it will take to make me stop. Physically kill me, or at least damage my body enough so that I can no longer function mentally. Ban me. Or keep the politics where they belong. I have no doubts whatsoever that there are folks on this forum who would or have seriously considered physical violence against me (CliffW, Scotzilla79 come to mind), but the way I see it, I have nothing to lose in that regard now. My will is fixed in stone. I've spent a lot of time lately thinking about weaknesses that I have and how others have exploited those against me, and in the process I've found some strengths I didn't know I had. I am nearly completely secure in myself now, something I realized I wasn't in the first few decades of my adult life, and have some measure of peace. That peace is strength of the real kind, not the false strength used by bullies of the physical and semantic variety.

I hang my hats on a hat rack (yes, I have a hat rack. )

So, what will it be? I know what it will be for me.

You lying little piece of **** ! Show me where I ever threatened you with violence? I don't know MaryJane, never met him, but I bet you wouldn't call him a prick to his face.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Better yet, tell it to the grandmother of someone nice and big and strong, I'd like to be there to see him twist your head off like the cork out of a champagne bottle.

I wasn't even in this thread. You are seriously sick.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Such a dangerousliberal mentality.

Fixed that for you.

Jazz,

This place was a bit more enjoyable while you were away. This bickering on your part is petty.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: It's a test of wills. The will of a handful of political bullies on this forum versus the will of me, one man, trying to make a change. Here's what it will take to make me stop. Physically kill me, or at least damage my body enough so that I can no longer function mentally. Ban me. Or keep the politics where they belong. I have no doubts whatsoever that there are folks on this forum who would or have seriously considered physical violence against me (CliffW, Scotzilla79 come to mind), but the way I see it, I have nothing to lose in that regard now. My will is fixed in stone. I've spent a lot of time lately thinking about weaknesses that I have and how others have exploited those against me, and in the process I've found some strengths I didn't know I had. I am nearly completely secure in myself now, something I realized I wasn't in the first few decades of my adult life, and have some measure of peace. That peace is strength of the real kind, not the false strength used by bullies of the physical and semantic variety. I hang my hats on a hat rack (yes, I have a hat rack. ) So, what will it be? I know what it will be for me.

I think you need some help buddy...

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: You lying little piece of **** ! Show me where I ever threatened you with violence? I don't know MaryJane, never met him, but I bet you wouldn't call him a prick to his face.

From: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...6/HTML/084150-2.html

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: As if size is everything either. Jazzman doesn't sound like he's been in a lot of physical altercations. A small man who knows how to fight can put a big man down easily. Jazzman also doesn't know what I look like. Here is a picture of me. Bring it Jazzman.

By the way, I've met Richard Kiel, he's a really nice, gentle man, about as far opposite of the character he played in that Bond movie as it's possible to think. If he wasn't offended by the way you used his image it would only be because as a public figure he's pretty used to it by now.

Edit to add, I've been in plenty of physical altercations. All of them involved being beaten to a bloody pulp and/or knocked unconscious and left laying in the street by multiples of kids bigger than I was. Trying to fight back only made the outcome worse for me. Looking back, I should have been more willing to fight back harder (to risk of death if necessary) rather than trying to just survive, but really, children aren't wired to make that kind of life or death decision and shouldn't be expected to.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 04-13-2011).]

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I think you need some help buddy...

You could help by keeping your political pants on more often. No need to drop them at the merest hint of a breeze...

LOL you're such an idiot Jazz that was in reference to you wishing me harm and was a joke. I'm obviously not the person in the photo either.
Good for you name-dropper. I don't have to meet an actor to know he's necessarily not what he portrays.
So explain to me how I was threatening you when you said you hoped someone would squeeze my head off and I said bring it on.

They would ask for a bail out, that is to be expected from the entitlement mentality they have there.
I hope they are told to drop dead like Ford once "told" NYC.(He didn't actually tell them to drop dead but he might as well have)

http://www.nytimes.com/2006...ion/28veto.html?_r=1

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Based on the ultimatum of your will against everyone else's, I pledge from here on to never mark any political thread political. If others decide to follow suit, so be it.

Cool, two down, handful more to go, thanks!

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Yeah Detroit... sigh... not much more can be said, but I say put the money into bulldozers and start at the river and move west.

Wow, that's too funny, I said similar last night on Fox 2 news website....

quote No bailout, try ballancing your budget. Watson thinks Detroit is worth as much as GM?!!!! Detroit is only worth a line of bulldozers lined up at 8-mile road and not stopping until they hit the Detroit river.

If Trickle down economics work, and GM and Chrysler got 52 billion.,,,shouldn't Detroit be 200 billion richer?

quote Originally posted by Gridlock: If Trickle down economics work, and GM and Chrysler got 52 billion.,,,shouldn't Detroit be 200 billion richer?

You obviously don't know what real 'trickle down economics' are... bailing out a failed business model just to allow it to continue is not trickle down economics. Government subsidies/bailouts do not constitute trickle down economics. Sorry, please try again. The GM/Chrysler bailouts should never have happened. You make your bed, you sleep in it.

quote Originally posted by carbon: You obviously don't know what real 'trickle down economics' are... bailing out a failed business model just to allow it to continue is not trickle down economics. Government subsidies/bailouts do not constitute trickle down economics. Sorry, please try again. The GM/Chrysler bailouts should never have happened. You make your bed, you sleep in it.

exactly... the money went to pay for all of GM's debt. If GM spent even $20B of their own money in Detroit, then you would see some improvement within parts of the city. But what you have is the "loan" was used to pay off debt and that was sent to the 4 corners of the earth. The bailout should not have happened. GM hasn't changed, contracts (labor and materials) were not invalidated, plants didn't close and restructure... it is pretty much the same GM....they are making expensive trucks and putting tons of taxpayer money into an electric car that doesn't make money. Sounds like the GM I know from the past.

Sorry, I had trouble getting the thread to post (dns problems, perhaps stemming from my poor ph line connection?) and I did mark it correctly the 1st time I tried to post, but obviously forgot to mark the 2nd time.

Gokartmozart--yes, we understand who is doing the talking, but we also understand "Someone" is electing these officials, and those "someones" are the citizens of Detroit.

Actually if GM had not been bailed out things in Detroit would be getting worse. With only Ford in the area a lot of Oakland county would have some trouble and not just the city of Detroit.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: It's a test of wills. The will of a handful of political bullies on this forum versus the will of me, one man, trying to make a change. Here's what it will take to make me stop. Physically kill me, or at least damage my body enough so that I can no longer function mentally. Ban me. Or keep the politics where they belong.

Per the rules which you are so fond of. There is another way to stop you. You can ban yourself.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I know it's not stupidity because the topic creator is obviously able to write. In fact, I've met him, and he seems like a nice guy in person, but on this forum he's a prick.

Fom the 2011 Garden Thread.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I'm still looking for a tiller I can afford.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Jazzman, if you want a little minitiller (2 cycle), that has something wrong with the drive (sprocket or chain I guess) come get it. Craftsman--ran good last year, till I hit a root and the tines won't turn now--been parked inside since then.

maryjane, you prick,
Jizzy, see this thread prick, .
***************************************************************

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Based on the ultimatum of your will against everyone else's, I pledge from here on to never mark any political thread political. If others decide to follow suit, so be it. Marking a thread political is a courtesy, like holding the door open for a lady. But, when it's a loud mouthed witch screaming that I have to hold the door for her, she can do it herself. Have a political day.

Well now, that's a pretty Draconian measure though not against the rules. You could do what I do and what I think everyone should do. Mark EVERY SINGLE THREAD political, just in case it becomes so. For Jazzman's sake 'ya know. As an added bonus, for us, we would never hear from him again, though I doubt it. Imagine, no threads on his server.

In before Cliff closes this thread too!

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Actually if GM had not been bailed out things in Detroit would be getting worse. With only Ford in the area a lot of Oakland county would have some trouble and not just the city of Detroit.

Not true at all...


GM and Chrysler did NOT need the US government to "help" them file for bankruptcy. GM didn't get bailed out at all... the overwhelming vast majority of the money went to the UAW... plain and simple. This was a union bailout, not a GM bailout. Had it been a "GM" bailout, the money would have gone to the bond and debt holders, which it did not... they got nothing.

GM and Chrysler would have filed for re-structuring bankruptcy, which would have meant that the UAW would essentially have been broken, and GM and Chrysler would have been free of all contracts. They would then have had the right to re-negotiate all new contracts, and likely, the UAW could quite possibly have collapsed (although I'm sure someone else would have filled in).

Even if, however, GM and Chrysler did for some reason file for liquidation bankruptcy... most of the divisions would have been bought up by other companies, just like AMC was picked apart. Jeep was previously owned by AMC, and when AMC filed for bankruptcy, Chrysler bought them... they kept hte brand, and even continued the manufacturing of ALL of their models except the Commanche since they already had pickup trucks with their Dodge brand.


Involving the Government was for no other purpose than to bail-out the union... this is well understood.

I could not possibly disagree with you more. For one... both companies had planned to file for restructuring bankruptcy anyway... so neither GM or Chrysler would have dissapeared anyway.

Fiat was actually waiting on a merger with Chrysler, because had Chrysler been able to file for bankruptcy on it's own, Fiat would have bought the entire company. Once they realized that the government got involved, there was nothing they could do.

I would probably almost say that the economy would likely be even better right now had the government NOT gotten involved, because GM and Chrysler would have been able to hire substantially more workers, at slightly less pay. Instead... the thing that arguably could be blamed for the downfall of GM and Chrysler, is the ONLY thing that HASN'T changed in this bailout / bankruptcy. It was probably the thing that needed to be changed the most...

What's worse, is that the entire board of directors was replaced with friends of the administration... instead of hiring more visionaries, and automotive people, the board of directors is now filled with politicians. j


I know I've gone over this before, but the bailout allowed the government to buy "Preferred Shares." The government said that they had no intentions of voting or changing the company. Since you cannot vote with preferred shares, they quietly converted the preferred shares to "common stock" literally overnight a month later. No one noticed, and other than Marketwatch, and MSN Money, no one even mentioned it. The very next day, the entire board of directors were voted out by the new 61% voting majority (plus the additional 12.5% ownership by the Canadian government). Overnight, all the board of directors were replaced with friends of the administration and Democrat politicians (dead serious, look it up).

GM is ****ed, and they will continue to be that way until they've rid themselves from the constraints of the UAW, and the government sets them free. Most companies have some wiggle-room for upper management stupidity... but when you have both management stupidity, and a union workforce, it's a double whammy. Not to mention that nearly half the country is boycotting them because the government owns them... if they don't release the company, it will go the way of British Leyland. Look up British Leyland history, this is the exact same thing... and it's the reason why England no longer produces cars.

82 t/a I am enlightened. What you say makes complete sense. Thank you.

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: 82 t/a I am enlightened. What you say makes complete sense. Thank you.

I just watched a video on YouTube that someone e-mailed me, of a girl crying for EMO rights. I'm now in a wierd mood... it was probably the lamest video I think I've ever seen in my life, but I couldn't turn it off. I wanted to hit the back button, or type GOOGLE into the URL just so it would go away... but I couldn't. It was like watching a train wreck after it had already happened and all that was left was a burnt field and some messed up tracks... and then suddenly seeing two more trains collide and explode in the same spot... and then still watching as the people (on fire) ran out of the wrecked train.... and then CONTINUING to watch after the whole wreck was cleaned up again.


Because I would be upset if I (and the other 569 thousand viewers) were the only ones who had to suffer, I feel it necessary to post it here as well.




Sorry to hijack the thread, but I can't help it...

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I just watched a video on YouTube that someone e-mailed me, of a girl crying for EMO rights. I'm now in a wierd mood... it was probably the lamest video I think I've ever seen in my life, but I couldn't turn it off. I wanted to hit the back button, or type GOOGLE into the URL just so it would go away... but I couldn't. It was like watching a train wreck after it had already happened and all that was left was a burnt field and some messed up tracks... and then suddenly seeing two more trains collide and explode in the same spot... and then still watching as the people (on fire) ran out of the wrecked train.... and then CONTINUING to watch after the whole wreck was cleaned up again. Because I would be upset if I (and the other 569 thousand viewers) were the only ones who had to suffer, I feel it necessary to post it here as well. Sorry to hijack the thread, but I can't help it...

NSFW NSFW NSFW

LANGUAGE!!

G'Dang'et Todd; this was horrible.

Ok, I got through about 90 seconds. When does the train explode on that girls face?
Canadians are so much better than Americans

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Ok, I got through about 90 seconds. When does the train explode on that girls face? Canadians are so much better than Americans

If you make it through about 3/4 of the way through it gets hilarious because she starts crying which honestly should NOT be funny (I'm a big fan of openly crying), but the way she does it is just too funny.