Is ducking & dodging a learned response?

You must get hit first to learn how not to get hit?

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-21-2010).]

You do realize that babies are substantially slower than the average adult, and therefore you will need to throw the rock much slower.

I'm sure someone has already figured out the speed in which to throw the rock so that the baby has enough time to duck. Google it.

Brad

Is fear of sticking a pair of tweezers in a live electrical outlet a learned response? You betcha.
Emotions take a few days to surface in newborns-- (they have a lot to take in during that time).

I do think tho, there is an ingrained fear factor involved in the natural order of things, but the emotion itself has to have time to surface.
A newborn puppy born to a stray, will have no fear of anything, but within a couple of days with it's mother, it will, on it's own, scurry away from a human.

Boon,

Why are you throwing rocks at babies?

I couldn't find a duck?

quote Originally posted by Khw: Boon, Why are you throwing rocks at babies?

He's merely testing the theory, of course. A small sacrifice in the name of science.

"Small" depends on who is doing the actual sacrificing--and how big said rock is..

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Is fear of sticking a pair of tweezers in a live electrical outlet a learned response? You betcha. Emotions take a few days to surface in newborns-- (they have a lot to take in during that time). I do think tho, there is an ingrained fear factor involved in the natural order of things, but the emotion itself has to have time to surface. A newborn puppy born to a stray, will have no fear of anything, but within a couple of days with it's mother, it will, on it's own, scurry away from a human.

Thank you.

I have read that we bring some responses with us through genetics.
I wonder what & how much.

It would seem that ducking from something comming at our face would have been with our speices for a very long time, and would have become engrained geneticlly by now.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-21-2010).]

The instinct to duck may indeed be genetic, but the muscle control to actually do it may take some time to develop.
Does a baby blink if you try to poke your finger in it's eye?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: The instinct to duck may indeed be genetic, but the muscle control to actually do it may take some time to develop. Does a baby blink if you try to poke your finger in it's eye?

Why are you poking fingers in baby's eyes ???

Use a fork !

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: Why are you poking fingers in baby's eyes ??? Use a fork !

Use a lobster fork. Dinner forks are too wide.

How come? Because you're doing it wrong! The trick is to throw the baby at the rock. Then, right before they meet, the baby will turn into a duck, and fly away. Then you get extra bonus points, and you grow an extra forehead.

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor: Then you get extra bonus points, and you grow an extra forehead.

Two foreheads will go great with my four skins.........

Human babies have virtually no physical coordination. Plus, their heads are so big in relation to the rest of their body (and their neck muscles), it makes them very unwieldy. Although, if you were to film it with a high-speed camera, you'd probably see the baby make an "oh crap!" face just before impact.

For some reason, this thread reminds me of a dead baby joke.
Q: Which is easier to unload, a truckload of dead babies or a truckload of bowling balls?
A: The truckload of dead babies, because you can use a pitchfork.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 11-21-2010).]

You ever notice how when some one is shooting at superman he takes the bullets to the chest but when they run out of ammo and throw the gun at him he ducks?

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I think it is instinct, in fact, learned behavior might make you slower to get out of the way.

quote Originally posted by tbone42: ........... learned behavior might make you slower to get out of the way.

AAYYUUPPP........2am at any bar with a bunch in ya and the ugly one is comin yer way. Ya KNOW how much ya are gonna hate yerself in the morning, but that "get out of the way" thing just dont happen.....

I bet the baby ducks the second time around, if you nail him good the first time, and don't mame, or kill him. I just tried it on my youngest. Boy, I didn't know she could move that fast.

Jim

[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 11-21-2010).]

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: I bet the baby ducks the second time around, if you nail him good the first time, and don't mame, or kill him. I just tried it om my youngest. Boy, I didn't know she could move that fast. Jim

Jim.....no throwing rocks at kids, OK ????..........Please ?

(rocks dont keep them in line. Ya need bullets to do the job. Lessee how eager they are to go after the chocolate milk after having a hand shot off. )

At that age they are only interested in the same thing that I am only interested in at my age, "Where is the boob?

Humans have no instincts at all. Everything is learned.

quote Originally posted by vinny: Humans have no instincts at all. Everything is learned.

Interesting.

Let me think on that.........breastfeeding?
How do they know to suck?

Hunger? AND there is a boob in your mouth

quote Originally posted by vinny: Hunger?

Who taught them to suck?

Just be careful when that baby grows up a little.

Very cute and intelligent!

She already has a grasp of the concepts of cause & effect and pre-emptive strike capibilities.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I have read that we bring some responses with us through genetics. I wonder what & how much.

quote Originally posted by vinny: Humans have no instincts at all. Everything is learned.

Humans are born with many basic "instincts," but they are almost immediately subject to being shaped by experience and learning. Breathing is instinctive. Crying is instinctive. A baby's "startle response" to loud sounds is instinctive.

One of the best researched and well documented instinctive behaviors in human (and many other mammalian) infants is fear of falling. Experiments were conducted beginning more than fifty years ago in which babies were allowed to crawl around near a visual "cliff" (only about two feet high, but with strong visual cues), but they were protected from falling by a plexiglass floor bridging the apparent chasm. Human babies would crawl right up to the edge, and even "pat" the plexiglass to feel its solidity, but they would usually retreat and would never crawl out onto the plexiglass. Puppies behaved the same. Kittens behaved the same. No one had "taught" any of them to fear heights; the behavior is clearly instinctive.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Who taught them to suck?

Some babies do have to be taught to suckle, but they usually catch on pretty quickly. (No pun intended.) Me? I'm a fast learner; I was virtually self taught.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 11-22-2010).]

Fearing old age dementia or Alzhiemers, I "force" myself, periodically, to re-acquaint myself or hone my abilities with it Marvin.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Some babies do have to be taught to suckle, but they usually catch on pretty quickly.

I know you sometimes have to stimulate the suck response with the nipple, but you are only triggering an action that is already there, the suck.
How do they know to pull a suction?

Becouse later on in age, you STILL have to teach them how to use a straw........which would lead me to believe that they have not LEARNED how to suck.
It is a genetic action we are born with, correct?

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Thank you. I have read that we bring some responses with us through genetics. I wonder what & how much. It would seem that ducking from something comming at our face would have been with our speices for a very long time, and would have become engrained geneticlly by now.

yup - now that that same baby, and throw it in the water - it WILL swim.
and swimming is much tougher than ducking

perhaps it is trust? the baby does not think you could really throw something "hard" - it expecting the incoming object to be a stuffed animal it can play with. it'll bounce off the skull, and everyone will giggle & laugh. while being thrown in the water - it is pretty clear whats up.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I know you sometimes have to stimulate the suck response with the nipple, but you are only triggering an action that is already there, the suck. How do they know to pull a suction? Because later on in age, you STILL have to teach them how to use a straw........which would lead me to believe that they have not LEARNED how to suck.

I find that even way past the baby age, you still have to stimulate the suck response, usually with cash or jewelry.

Oh and since when do babies just start swimming if you throw them in a pool? I always heard they just sink like a rock.

http://www.babycenter.com/4...swim-and_10313062.bc

It appears babies can swim as infants, but that does not mean they cant drown.

quote Originally posted by tbone42: http://www.babycenter.com/4...swim-and_10313062.bc It appears babies can swim as infants, but that does not mean they cant drown.

Unless I am reading it wrong, your article is saying that they LOOK like they are swimming.
The swimming reflex

Until around 6 months, babies placed in water tummy-side down will move their arms and legs in a swimming motion. When the swimming reflex and the dive reflex are both engaged, a baby can look like a natural swimmer.

Cautions about babies in water

"These reflexes don't mean the baby can swim, though," says Wagener. What's more, they don't protect a baby from drowning.

quote Originally posted by Gecko: Unless I am reading it wrong, your article is saying that they LOOK like they are swimming. The swimming reflex Until around 6 months, babies placed in water tummy-side down will move their arms and legs in a swimming motion. When the swimming reflex and the dive reflex are both engaged, a baby can look like a natural swimmer. Cautions about babies in water "These reflexes don't mean the baby can swim, though," says Wagener. What's more, they don't protect a baby from drowning.

I think my point was it was instinctual swimming movements, since we were talking about instinct versus learned behavior.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 11-22-2010).]

And it would seem all the instinctual behavour if connected to staying alive, which makes perfect sense. Those would be the ones that would have been around the longest & be the most importent.
I wonder though, if it has been like that since the dawn of man, or if it took hundreds or thousands of years to become engrained?

If cells can hold & pass on behavour, can they hold & pass on memories?

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: And it would seem all the instinctual behavour if connected to staying alive, which makes perfect sense. Those would be the ones that would have been around the longest & be the most importent. I wonder though, if it has been like that since the dawn of man, or if it took hundreds or thousands of years to become engrained? If cells can hold & pass on behavour, can they hold & pass on memories?

WOW. Great question Boon. I have no answers, but that one twisted my mind a little. Cellular memory across generations. Ever see a kid who acted just like his parent? How much of that was learned, how much was passed down? We'll probably never know, but its fascinating.

It is a reflex, an affective reaction according to Piaget. Research cognitive development.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: If cells can hold & pass on behavour, can they hold & pass on memories?

Still thinking......