Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Well, the good thing is that the floor pan is actually identical (or should be) between the Toronado and the Eldorado. So, you SHOULD be able to find the panel, and they're usually not that expensive. Usually like $100-150 bucks.
Try goodmark industries.
Seriously?!? Wicked awesome!
Well, GREAT news! Turns out the guy who I talked to owns a local car-shop, and is well renowned as an automotive genius, who knows engines like no-one else arround. He did the swap, and could tell me all about it! The engine, AND transmission both came out of a 1968 Olds Toronado! So, it's still an THM-425 3-speed transmission in there! Plus, it has the '68 torque converter, which means it has the '68 half-axles. '66 half-axles basically do not exist, but '67-76 are readily available. So, I really lucked out on this one.
He was really surprised when I asked about the missing air-cleaner, and even more so when I told him the carb is missing. He's gonna talk to his nephew (the owner) and see if the parts are arround somewhere. If not, he says he's got a pile of Olds carbs in his garage I can have one to rebuild. I doubt it was stolen off the car, as a thief probably wouldn't take the time to place a towel and tire iron to protect the intake manifold.
So, yes, I am definitely picking up this baby... I never dreamed I'd have a car with an engine so freeking huge! I'm sure the fuel economy is terrible, but I can burn rubber instead!
He was really surprised when I asked about the missing air-cleaner, and even more so when I told him the carb is missing. He's gonna talk to his nephew (the owner) and see if the parts are arround somewhere. If not, he says he's got a pile of Olds carbs in his garage I can have one to rebuild. I doubt it was stolen off the car, as a thief probably wouldn't take the time to place a towel and tire iron to protect the intake manifold.
Not all of it is missing...
IP: Logged
03:02 AM
DeLorean00 Member
Posts: 4251 From: Sacramento, CA / Reno, NV Registered: Aug 2005
That isn't the top of the carburetor. That piece goes on top of the distributor. It's supposed to snap on and it holds down the spark plug boots so they don't back off.
As for the transmission, all big block FWD cars use the Th-425 automatic transmission. It's the ONLY longitudinal front wheel drive transmission GM has ever made as far as I know.
You'll want to find out what year it is though, because they came with a "Switch Pitch" feature on them that the later years did not. I THINK 66-68 or 67-69 (can't remember). But they're really sought after because they give you BETTER acceleration and better fuel economy all in the same car. Worlds better than just a normal Th-425.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: That isn't the top of the carburetor. That piece goes on top of the distributor. It's supposed to snap on and it holds down the spark plug boots so they don't back off.
Hah! I love bein' right
quote
As for the transmission, all big block FWD cars use the Th-425 automatic transmission. It's the ONLY longitudinal front wheel drive transmission GM has ever made as far as I know.
You'll want to find out what year it is though, because they came with a "Switch Pitch" feature on them that the later years did not. I THINK 66-68 or 67-69 (can't remember). But they're really sought after because they give you BETTER acceleration and better fuel economy all in the same car. Worlds better than just a normal Th-425.
It's from a '68 Toro, so, it /should/ be the right one. Now, about moving this behemoth.... I've thought of calling a tow-truck, but I was wondering what other, more economical options might be out there, if any...
[This message has been edited by Twilight Fenrir (edited 03-28-2010).]
Now, about moving this behemoth.... I've thought of calling a tow-truck, but I was wondering what other, more economical options might be out there, if any...
Call a roll off truck. In this situation it is worth the price. It can unstick the car in a matter of seconds, instead of you working for hours, and wishing you had called a roll off .
Brad
IP: Logged
11:13 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25213 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Call a roll off truck. In this situation it is worth the price. It can unstick the car in a matter of seconds, instead of you working for hours, and wishing you had called a roll off .
Brad
X2 with what Brad said. Do yourself the favor and do this one right. Just call a tow truck... like a flat-bed (or whatever he said). You're going to destroy any car that's smaller than the Toro, just trying to pull it out of the mud and grass. The wheels are probably frozen. Imagine trying to drag 4,200 pounds that's stuck in the ground with rubber feet that don't move....
And then consider doing that with an 82 El Camino...
Call a roll off truck. In this situation it is worth the price. It can unstick the car in a matter of seconds, instead of you working for hours, and wishing you had called a roll off .
Brad
Well... see... I'm gonna have to move it twice before it reaches its home... I'm moving in about a month, month and a half, out to the country where I"ll have some room. Right now, I'm in the middle of town, and already have 7 cars in my yard... (no, not all of them are mine... but, half of them are... 2 of which are scrap, ones my Fiero and my Elk) So, I'm going to have to rent a storage unit for a month to park it in. I don't mind doing the work.
I have a friend at work, who has actually offered to GIVE me, free of charge, his big old Ford pickup. I don't know much about it atm, will ask him more today, all I know is it has a 494 in it, and an epically big gas tank. (Which should translate to BIG truck) I initially turned him down, due to the fact that it was a Ford, but, maybe I should re-consider....
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
X2 with what Brad said. Do yourself the favor and do this one right. Just call a tow truck... like a flat-bed (or whatever he said). You're going to destroy any car that's smaller than the Toro, just trying to pull it out of the mud and grass. The wheels are probably frozen. Imagine trying to drag 4,200 pounds that's stuck in the ground with rubber feet that don't move....
And then consider doing that with an 82 El Camino...
I know, I know, but I had to ask :P Was the guy with the Contour crazy or what?
[This message has been edited by Twilight Fenrir (edited 03-28-2010).]
IP: Logged
11:19 AM
LitebulbwithaFiero Member
Posts: 3381 From: LaSalle, Michigan Registered: Jun 2008
How do you plan on towing it yourself? Flat tow might not be a good idea with assuming flat tires, non-functional brakes and possibly locked up bearings and brakes. Get it towed via rollback to some where you can get it to a movable state.
How do you plan on towing it yourself? Flat tow might not be a good idea with assuming flat tires, non-functional brakes and possibly locked up bearings and brakes. Get it towed via rollback to some where you can get it to a movable state.
Was planning on putting a spare set of wheels I have lying around to overcome the flat tires... And, kinda just hoping the brakes weren't siezed. Would be able to tell that when I jack it up off the ground.
I'm not sure who to call about a roll off truck... Suppose I'll ask around. How much can I expect to pay to get towed 20 miles? After it's there, if I get it un-stuck, I should be able to arrange more economical methods for the 2nd trip?
IP: Logged
11:36 AM
PFF
System Bot
LitebulbwithaFiero Member
Posts: 3381 From: LaSalle, Michigan Registered: Jun 2008
20 mile tow will probably be $100-200 I would guess. Any towing company should have a roll back, just pull out the phone book and call around for the best quote. If you could get the car on solid ground, jack it up, get the brakes working and flats changed, then you could flat tow it. Just hang a white flag off the back and take 'er easy. Of course all the info is for Michigan, might be different in your state.
EDIT: In a month, you should be able to drive to your new house in it
[This message has been edited by LitebulbwithaFiero (edited 03-28-2010).]
20 mile tow will probably be $100-200 I would guess. Any towing company should have a roll back, just pull out the phone book and call around for the best quote. If you could get the car on solid ground, jack it up, get the brakes working and flats changed, then you could flat tow it. Just hang a white flag off the back and take 'er easy. Of course all the info is for Michigan, might be different in your state
I was thinking of using a U-Haul car trailer, actually. The olds just squeeks into acceptable limits for their towing procedures. (it's just one inch narrower than the max width) Was thinking of putting the new wheels on, putting some long strips of 2x12 lumber underneath the wheels, and getting a couple guys to help push it up and in.
quote
EDIT: In a month, you should be able to drive to your new house in it
Not unless I rebuild the engine, and the transmission... and the carburetor... Replace the gas tank, and the fuel lines, and the brake lines. Probably rebuild the alternator, replace all the rubber components of the suspension.... :P
[This message has been edited by Twilight Fenrir (edited 03-28-2010).]
IP: Logged
11:55 AM
LitebulbwithaFiero Member
Posts: 3381 From: LaSalle, Michigan Registered: Jun 2008
Never got a trailer from u haul, but do they offer them with winches? Chances are the breaks and possibly bearings are locked up. At which point pushing if futile.
Those are just details you can ignore. Replace the carb, then if she starts, shes good to go.
I bought this in 08, after it had been sitting since 99
Steering, two wheels, brake pedal and more where locked up solid with rust. With all the tires pumped up it was hard to pull it 20ft with this
[This message has been edited by LitebulbwithaFiero (edited 03-28-2010).]
IP: Logged
12:03 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25213 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
I know, I know, but I had to ask :P Was the guy with the Contour crazy or what?
Well, yes and no. Yes because it'll destroy the contours transmission. No in that th wheels on the Crown Victoria weren't seized... so it rolled freely. I would bet though that all four wheels on the Toro are seized up. ESPECIALLY the drums in the rear.
The rims you have might not work. I drove a tow truck for 5 years. call them, tell them you have a old car with 4 flats. You don't need to tell them there job. just tell them what it is. You CAN jack up the front to make it easy to put a hook on it. The wrecker driver will thank you. You can have blocks to put it down on. With a rollback, YOU will not have to mess with the bee's, snakes, rats, or any other wild life that is living in or under that tank. A can of wasp spray would be a good thing to have around the first time it gets warm. moving it with a rollback the first time is the best money you will ever spend on it. Between the first move and the 2nd, work on making it roll. maybe evon stop a little. But if the trans has not been lubed, (engine running ) don't roll it on its wheels more that you can push it by hand. I pulled old cars out of fields for with my car trailer and comealongs for 20 years before i got the wrecker driver job. Just call, they haul.
Never got a trailer from u haul, but do they offer them with winches? Chances are the breaks and possibly bearings are locked up. At which point pushing if futile.
Those are just details you can ignore. Replace the carb, then if she starts, shes good to go.
Can't ignore rebuilding the engine, it has a bent push-rod, and will not start. Besides, if the tranny has been there for 12 years (Still guessing on this... forgot to ask how long it's sat) All the seals in the engine, and transmission are likely compromised. The linkage for the transmission is definitely siezed, it's stuck in the "L" gear, and I can't seem to make it shift out of it.
As far as I know, the trailers do not have winches.
quote
Originally posted by FFIEROFRED:
The rims you have might not work. I drove a tow truck for 5 years. call them, tell them you have a old car with 4 flats. You don't need to tell them there job. just tell them what it is. You CAN jack up the front to make it easy to put a hook on it. The wrecker driver will thank you. You can have blocks to put it down on. With a rollback, YOU will not have to mess with the bee's, snakes, rats, or any other wild life that is living in or under that tank. A can of wasp spray would be a good thing to have around the first time it gets warm. moving it with a rollback the first time is the best money you will ever spend on it. Between the first move and the 2nd, work on making it roll. maybe evon stop a little. But if the trans has not been lubed, (engine running ) don't roll it on its wheels more that you can push it by hand. I pulled old cars out of fields for with my car trailer and comealongs for 20 years before i got the wrecker driver job. Just call, they haul.
If the brakes are locked up, that's not such a big deal to resolve... just pound off the drums and remove the shoes and she should roll, right? Of course, if the bearings are gone too, that's another issue...
But, alright, I'll concede to professional assistance for the first move. I could probably swing something to let it sit there for another month or two... but, I'd really rather get it out of that field ASAP, keep looters away, and keep what's left from dissolving as well.
X2 with what Brad said. Do yourself the favor and do this one right. Just call a tow truck... like a flat-bed (or whatever he said). You're going to destroy any car that's smaller than the Toro, just trying to pull it out of the mud and grass. The wheels are probably frozen. Imagine trying to drag 4,200 pounds that's stuck in the ground with rubber feet that don't move....
And then consider doing that with an 82 El Camino...
Keep in mid I was scrapping for a living there for awhile. I had a good winch, a strong truck, and a good trailer. Not a couple of guys, an El Camino, and a U Haul trailer.
I would still end up using come-alongs with the winch to pull the cars up on the trailer, and that was with rolling wheels. Those old heavy cars are not easy to get up anywhere.
I also would hook up to the cars with the truck, a 1 ton 4X4 Ford, put it in 4 low, and try to jerk the car out of the ground. I broke a few chains doing that, and It rarely worked. I had several times where I had the truck locked into 4 low, with a guy in the cab, pulling forward while I pulled with the winch, you don't know desperation until you have a 1 ton Ford being pulled backwards, by a winch, on a trailer hooked to an old Pontiac Station wagon. With a guy in the cab, giving it gas, spinning the wheels trying to get traction.
I called for a roll off on that one (It had to go with the lot, or I got none), paid 100 bucks, and he just picked it up with no problem, all it took was hooking on to my chain I had already hooked under the engine. Plenty of pissed off Black Snakes under it too. I'm glad I called.
Another time I had to get a tractor to a vehicle I was pulling, it wasn't as bad, we just used the bucket to push it in the trailer, but it was hairy for a little bit as well.
That isn't the top of the carburetor. That piece goes on top of the distributor. It's supposed to snap on and it holds down the spark plug boots so they don't back off.
Shows you how much I know about carb'd engines - I've never owned one, nor worked on one.
But I could use one of those retainers for my Fiero... the bloody plug wires keep inching their way off the cap.
quote
Originally posted by twofatguys:
Another time I had to get a tractor to a vehicle I was pulling, it wasn't as bad, we just used the bucket to push it in the trailer, but it was hairy for a little bit as well.
Brad
At work one day, we pulled a loaded semi out of some large (2-3") rock - it was hub deep in and couldn't move under it's own power. The first time it got stuck, we were able to pull it (nearly unloaded) with a F250 (big turbo diesel)... Impressive.
Alright! I have a Carb, and an air-cleaner... both of which have a known location, and will go with the car..
The owner does NOT have the title. The guy who I've been talking to (the owners brother-in-law), was quick to remind me of a portion of law I had forgotten about. After a car is left somewhere for 90 days, with no attempts to pick up, it defaults to the owner of the property. I actually knew this, but forgot about it. It's been sitting there for 3 years now... The guy who bought it tried to pick it up with a trailer a week after he bought it, couldn't, and left it. So, I'd say it qualifies as abandoned.
But, now the actual owner is having a moral dillema about selling the same car twice. I know it's not somone holding out for money, as I hadn't made an official offer. Besides, my co-worker (the owners cousin) assures me of both of the guys I'm working with excellent character. I'm betting he'll go for it. Or, hoping, at least.
This has got to be the most complicated car purchase of all time....
IP: Logged
10:22 PM
Mar 29th, 2010
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
You probably knew this, but make sure you own it before trying to move it or spending any time on it.
Great to hear it generally sounds like a go!
Good point. I've been in this situation before, and while it did ultimately work out... it could all end badly. Especially if you make improvements and then the owners somehow want more money for it before they've sold it... or who knows what.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Good point. I've been in this situation before, and while it did ultimately work out... it could all end badly. Especially if you make improvements and then the owners somehow want more money for it before they've sold it... or who knows what.
Yes specificaly I had a decent 1976 280Z for about a week, got it for a good price and paid the lady who owned, it she was getting a title because it had been lost. I took it to my place and was so excited I had to get started fixing it up. The temp guage didn't work so I did a coolant flush and fill to get the build up out, then it worked. Replaced a leaking heater hose. Changed the oil, cleaned it all and vacuumed it all, armoralled all the inside plastic/vinyl, was cleaning under the hood... Then I got a call from her, her boyfriend had came home and said she could not sell it. Well since there was no title in my hand I technically didn't own it. I reluctantly had to return it. I did get my money back luckily. But the cost and time of my improvements to it were lost.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 03-29-2010).]
Yes specificaly I had a decent 1976 280Z for about a week, got it for a good price and paid the lady who owned, it she was getting a title because it had been lost. I took it to my place and was so excited I had to get started fixing it up. The temp guage didn't work so I did a coolant flush and fill to get the build up out, then it worked. Replaced a leaking heater hose. Changed the oil, cleaned it all and vacuumed it all, armoralled all the inside plastic/vinyl, was cleaning under the hood... Then I got a call from her, her boyfriend had came home and said she could not sell it. Well since there was no title in my hand I technically didn't own it. I reluctantly had to return it. I did get my money back luckily. But the cost and time of my improvements to it were lost.
Awe, way to be a buzz-kill.... A valid point however...
IP: Logged
01:14 AM
LitebulbwithaFiero Member
Posts: 3381 From: LaSalle, Michigan Registered: Jun 2008
Yes specificaly I had a decent 1976 280Z for about a week, got it for a good price and paid the lady who owned, it she was getting a title because it had been lost. I took it to my place and was so excited I had to get started fixing it up. The temp guage didn't work so I did a coolant flush and fill to get the build up out, then it worked. Replaced a leaking heater hose. Changed the oil, cleaned it all and vacuumed it all, armoralled all the inside plastic/vinyl, was cleaning under the hood... Then I got a call from her, her boyfriend had came home and said she could not sell it. Well since there was no title in my hand I technically didn't own it. I reluctantly had to return it. I did get my money back luckily. But the cost and time of my improvements to it were lost.
So you didn't get a bill of sale?
IP: Logged
09:01 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Good point, in the case of this Toronado that might be all that is needed...
"Bill of Sale Requirements Vehicle buyers and sellers who use a bill of sale form should be sure it includes the following information: Printed names and addresses and signatures of buyer(s) and seller(s) (all owners must sign) Date of purchaseComplete description of vehicle with make, model, and year Vehicle identification number (VIN) A bill of sale with the above information, among other things, is required by Minnesota for registration or title changes on vehicles with no proof ownership."
--
In my case it was complicated, these were my neighbors down the street, the lady I bought it from was apparently clueless about ownership, what I was hearing at that point was that it wasn't hers to sell, and they were threatening to call the cops to get it back from me. I was young and it wasn't worth the legal junk to me at the time.
Good point, in the case of this Toronado that might be all that is needed...
"Bill of Sale Requirements Vehicle buyers and sellers who use a bill of sale form should be sure it includes the following information: Printed names and addresses and signatures of buyer(s) and seller(s) (all owners must sign) Date of purchaseComplete description of vehicle with make, model, and year Vehicle identification number (VIN) A bill of sale with the above information, among other things, is required by Minnesota for registration or title changes on vehicles with no proof ownership."
--
In my case it was complicated, these were my neighbors down the street, the lady I bought it from was apparently clueless about ownership, what I was hearing at that point was that it wasn't hers to sell, and they were threatening to call the cops to get it back from me. I was young and it wasn't worth the legal junk to me at the time.
Ahh, now that sounds like a good idea Then I can get my car and tinker, while waiting for the title.
Come to think of it... this thing isn't still going to run on leaded gasoline is it?
[This message has been edited by Twilight Fenrir (edited 03-30-2010).]
Alright... I looked into the towing, looks like that'll run me about $270 from my favorite towing company. Is a rollback the same thing as a roll-off? And, how exactly do these things work? I couldn't find too much information on the internet about them, all I see is "for sale" nothing about how they work... What little I found on youtube, looks like it's just a big flat table that turns down to the ground, then a pair of winches pull it up... but, wouldn't that not work so well on a vehicle with 4 flat tires and siezed axles?
Also, do I need to worry about the winch-cables (or chains) scuffing up that front bumper? That thing is pristene, and I'd hate to see it get damaged...
IP: Logged
03:07 PM
LitebulbwithaFiero Member
Posts: 3381 From: LaSalle, Michigan Registered: Jun 2008
I have only heard of them being called a rollback or flat bed, never a roll-off (till this thread) It should be able to get it loaded with just a bit of work, although I never seen how they unload vehicles.
But we have had a guy come get scrap vehicles that had no wheels on them, sunk in the ground,, with a roll back and it only took a few minutes to get it loaded. With a car you plan on keeping might take a little longer. If he is a real tow man, he should be able to pull it up without doing any damage.
Alright... I looked into the towing, looks like that'll run me about $270 from my favorite towing company. Is a rollback the same thing as a roll-off? And, how exactly do these things work? I couldn't find too much information on the internet about them, all I see is "for sale" nothing about how they work... What little I found on youtube, looks like it's just a big flat table that turns down to the ground, then a pair of winches pull it up... but, wouldn't that not work so well on a vehicle with 4 flat tires and siezed axles?
Also, do I need to worry about the winch-cables (or chains) scuffing up that front bumper? That thing is pristene, and I'd hate to see it get damaged...
You need to watch them, I think you will enjoy it. They will "roll" the bed of the truck down to ground level with the car, then they will hook a chain from the bed to the front axle of the car (you may want to have a chain ready, or have the front dug up to insure this). Then they will use the force of the bed to lift the car out of the hole its sunk into. The chain will pull the car up on the bed, and the operator will slowly adjust the bed so the car just slides up on it.
It really is kinda cool. You should not have anything to worry about with scuffing/damaging the bumper, if you are really worried though, tell the driver, he may have something (like a good laugh).
Unloading it is pretty simple, they can drop the bed, and hook a chain to the other end of the car, and just pull the bed out, or slide it off.
We've called them roll backs, roll offs, and flat bed, I didn't mean to add confusion.
You need to watch them, I think you will enjoy it. They will "roll" the bed of the truck down to ground level with the car, then they will hook a chain from the bed to the front axle of the car (you may want to have a chain ready, or have the front dug up to insure this). Then they will use the force of the bed to lift the car out of the hole its sunk into. The chain will pull the car up on the bed, and the operator will slowly adjust the bed so the car just slides up on it.
It really is kinda cool. You should not have anything to worry about with scuffing/damaging the bumper, if you are really worried though, tell the driver, he may have something (like a good laugh).
Unloading it is pretty simple, they can drop the bed, and hook a chain to the other end of the car, and just pull the bed out, or slide it off.
We've called them roll backs, roll offs, and flat bed, I didn't mean to add confusion.
Brad
Huh... alright, fair enough... are they able to deliver it into an enclosed space? I'm tryin' to get it into a mini-storage building. So I can sit and tinker with it before I move, and can try to get it able to roll, so I can tow it myself with a u-haul trailer...
Oh Sweet! I just noticed the fuel-filler is behind the rear license plate! That is awesome!
[This message has been edited by Twilight Fenrir (edited 04-01-2010).]
IP: Logged
09:40 PM
PFF
System Bot
Apr 2nd, 2010
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Ahh, now that sounds like a good idea Then I can get my car and tinker, while waiting for the title.
Come to think of it... this thing isn't still going to run on leaded gasoline is it?
Yes as it is it would be leaded. Some makes changed in different years but between 69 and 71 is when most switched to unleaded as I recall. When rebuilding the heads if you need to using harder valve seats will allow it to run on unleaded safely.
Yep fuel filler under the license plate. Common back then.
We need pics when they tow this thing out
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-02-2010).]
IP: Logged
10:33 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Yes as it is it would be leaded. Some makes changed in different years but between 69 and 71 is when most switched to unleaded as I recall. When rebuilding the heads if you need to using harder valve seats will allow it to run on unleaded safely.
Yep fuel filler under the license plate. Common back then.
We need pics when they tow this thing out
They also still sell the bottles of additive so the older cars can run on unleaded. Ask at any parts house.
They also still sell the bottles of additive so the older cars can run on unleaded. Ask at any parts house.
Brad
Yeah, I've heard of that... The engine /was/ rebuilt, so hopefully the guy who did it took the time to change out the valves... I'll have to ask next time I talk to him.
Crap... more research has turned up... that it was the 65-67 TH400's that had the Switch-pitch on them... Via: http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/oftsp.htm
Apparently, there are (or were) a few companies that make conversion kits... I found one mentioned here: http://www.hotrodhomepage.c...osing-the-overdrive/ .... but, the website doesn't seem to exist anymore... I suppose I'm going to have to get used to digging for this kind of thing :P
Also, disappointingly, the '68 marked the switch from planetary gears, to hypoid gears....
Still no update on actually getting the car... it's still sitting, and I'm still waiting for a phone call... I do know the title was never transferred to the guy who bought it, DMV told me that...
[This message has been edited by Twilight Fenrir (edited 04-05-2010).]
Yep old cars require a bit of digging, I also recommend joining a forum specific to Olds and including Toronado owners.
So are we even totally positive your car here is a 68?
*edited cause of my sloppy typing
Heh, it's a '66... with the power train from a '68... and yes... it's obviously a '66 on the outside, one look at it will tell you that much... I passed it on the highway for the first time, and half a second later I said, "That's a '66 Toronado!"
As for the inside... as sure as I can be without pulling it apart to make sure...
I actually joined Toronado Owners... from what I can tell, there are like... 30 members x_x. So, will be helpfull, but alot longer delays than I get here :P
. 
- I've never owned one, nor worked on one.
