, no, he should not have to follow the schools dress code. No, he should not have to obey community/society laws. We all should be able to do whatever we want. .
quote
link "If I can't express myself, I won't go to school," he told the Atlanta Journal Constitution, "I want to get the message out there that because this is who I am, I can't get an education."
The dude is too stupid. I don't think school can even help. Darwin, get your award winner right here.
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05:46 PM
proff Member
Posts: 7401 From: The bottom of the world Registered: Oct 2004
I will read the hole lot later but from the comments and the questions so far . I would say the staff would be aware of the school yard bullying and the teasing and to avoid the conflict, they want every one to dress the same way. Also to get the pupils/students used to the idea of confinement or the idea of being the same as every one else. After you leave school and if you enter a workplace with the idea of wearing a uniform. This is a simular thing to school life in dress codes
, no, he should not have to follow the schools dress code. No, he should not have to obey community/society laws. We all should be able to do whatever we want. . The dude is too stupid. I don't think school can even help. Darwin, get your award winner right here.
I agree there is a time and place for everything School is the time and place for conformity
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05:52 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Maybe once he graduates he can dress like he wants, but it's going to be hard for him to find a regular job. I think he needs to obey the school dress code, while he is at school. After that, he can dress any way he wants. He needs to learn to conform to society, not the other way around.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 10-07-2009).]
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05:58 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 41489 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
The issue seems to be not that he wants to wear "women's" clothes, but that he wants to be in everybody's face about it. Blue jeans and t-shirts are the universal unisex clothing. Quit trying to piss everybody off. Wear your blue jeans and t shirts like everyone else, and get over it. Grow hair down to your azz if you want. That's pretty much unisex too. Jeez.
If I were in school there I might be amused, but I certainly wouldn't start any kwrap. Hell, probably 10% of the kids are gay, anyway. They just don't choose to blab it to everyone who will listen. It doesn't seem to be the big deal that it used to be.
Maybe once he graduates he can dress like he wants, but it's going to be hard for him to find a regular job. I think he needs to obey the school dress code, while he is at school. After that, he can dress any way he wants. He needs to learn to conform to society, not the other way around.
I refused to conform to what people consider 'society'. Was even taught 'become part of the grey thin line' is bad by my parents.. ( tho i didn't wear dresses, i just refused to follow along with the crowd 'just because' ).
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06:54 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
Although this is a somewhat bizarre situation, I am trying to keep an open mind about it.
Yet, I am having trouble coming up with a good reason this youngster shouldn't be required to abide by the posted dress code, even in the name of self expression. He may feel he is simply exercising his own rights to self expression, but he is also infringing on other's rights to an educational experience free of excessive distraction.
This is sort of like yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre. Yes, people have a right to free speech, but you cannot have people inciting panic because they feel like exercising free speech.
Couple of things to consider. Your freedom of speech are out the door in a public school. You don't have freedom of speech because for the most part (as is in this case) your freedom of speech belongs to your parents, and ultimately, belong to the school since they agree to these terms when they enlist you in school.
School is a place for learning, and social development is just a bonus that usually comes with it. Other students REALLY don't have the time to be bothered and distracted by someone else's "statements". It's clear his kid is having problems dealing with his sexuality. He can be gay all he wants, but there's no reason why he should be allowed to BREAK the dress code that the other students have to abide by.
This isn't the same thing as saying gays have the same right to marry, as long as it's with the opposite sex. This is school... kids have soo many things to work about when they're at that young age, the last thing they need is the distraction of someone pushing transgender issues in their faces. That stupid will have plenty of time to gay it out hard core once he graduates.
I refused to conform to what people consider 'society'. Was even taught 'become part of the grey thin line' is bad by my parents.. ( tho i didn't wear dresses, i just refused to follow along with the crowd 'just because' ).
Follow along with the crowd... Most school dress codes probably inhibit doing that. I know my daughters school does not allow baggy jeans, low rise jeans, spaghetti strap tanks, bra showing, shorts that are higher then the tips of your fingers when you hold your arms straight down, underware exposed among many other things. This is more of a dress appropriately deal. I mean walk into a mall and you can see how the "crowd" dresses.
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09:02 PM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
My personal opinion is that the "dude" is just looking for his 15 minutes of fame. He may be gay or not, don't really care. He's looking to get his made up face, pink hair and sexy girly clothes on Oprah, the evening news and any other publicity he can get. When not in school, he can wear whatever he wants as far as I'm concerned, in school, he can meet the dress code or take his butt elsewhere.
My personal opinion is that the "dude" is just looking for his 15 minutes of fame. He may be gay or not, don't really care. He's looking to get his made up face, pink hair and sexy girly clothes on Oprah, the evening news and any other publicity he can get. When not in school, he can wear whatever he wants as far as I'm concerned, in school, he can meet the dress code or take his butt elsewhere.
Ron
Just cuz he's in pink hair and a sexy girly dress--there ya go gettin all worked up & talkin about his butt already. We ain't forgot what you put poor heybjorn thru..........
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10:09 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
I refused to conform to what people consider 'society'. Was even taught 'become part of the grey thin line' is bad by my parents.. ( tho i didn't wear dresses, i just refused to follow along with the crowd 'just because' ).
Most jobs I have had have a dress code too. The more professional the job the stricter the dress code (ie: suit and tie jobs). These jobs also have higher salaries. You are required to look profesional in most high paying jobs, because you are representing your company. He might get a job at a Game Stop or some of the other Teenager stores in the malls, but he would have trouble getting a job even at McDonald's looking like that. They don't want the employee's looks scaring the customers away. If one really wants to advance in society they need to learn to conform or win the lottery.
Most jobs I have had have a dress code too. The more professional the job the stricter the dress code (ie: suit and tie jobs). These jobs also have higher salaries. You are required to look profesional in most high paying jobs, because you are representing your company. He might get a job at a Game Stop or some of the other Teenager stores in the malls, but he would have trouble getting a job even at McDonald's looking like that. They don't want the employee's looks scaring the customers away. If one really wants to advance in society they need to learn to conform or win the lottery.
True, me too. I will also add that I was contractually obligated to conduct myself in a way as to be a good representation of the company when I was on my own time too. Rightfully so I might add. It neveer ends so he had better get used to it or be comfortable as a failure.
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12:54 AM
FriendGregory Member
Posts: 4833 From: Palo Alto, CA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
Most jobs I have had have a dress code too. The more professional the job the stricter the dress code (ie: suit and tie jobs). These jobs also have higher salaries. You are required to look profesional in most high paying jobs, because you are representing your company. He might get a job at a Game Stop or some of the other Teenager stores in the malls, but he would have trouble getting a job even at McDonald's looking like that. They don't want the employee's looks scaring the customers away. If one really wants to advance in society they need to learn to conform or win the lottery.
Difference is you get a choice of which job you take. Hard to compare the mandatory dress code of a school to being out in the real world.
Its his right not to advance in the business world Or will, depending ...
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07:57 AM
PFF
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tutnkmn Member
Posts: 3426 From: York, England, U.K. Living in Ohio Registered: May 2006
Nowhere that I have read in the articles does he state that he is gay or transgendered (I was unable to hear the video because the sound card is out). If he were gay (or even straight) and doing drag to provoke people into reactions then by all means he should adhere to the dress code and stop his disruptive behaviour.
If he is a transgendered teen then he needs to get a letter from a psychologist (present it to his/her school) start living as a female in anticipation of sex reassignment surgery and enroll in another school AS a female (changing his name and never divulging his biological gender). This is the norm for transgendered teens and avoids the population of the school from bullying.
[This message has been edited by tutnkmn (edited 10-08-2009).]
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07:57 AM
tutnkmn Member
Posts: 3426 From: York, England, U.K. Living in Ohio Registered: May 2006
Here the dress code is very clear. If your a male, you must wear slacks w/ belt and collared shirt with no kind of logos or designs. Girls must wear a top that has sleeves (no straps) with opening at top no lower than 4" from chin and no bare stomach showing along with slacks or skirt (must come down to middle of thigh). No jeans, untucked shirts, no sweats, no hoodies, no coats with any logo or design, NO HATS. Anyone showing up in violation is sent home to change. Miss too many days and you get held back next year.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 10-08-2009).]
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08:09 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
I refused to conform to what people consider 'society'. Was even taught 'become part of the grey thin line' is bad by my parents.. ( tho i didn't wear dresses, i just refused to follow along with the crowd 'just because' ).
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but I have an honest question. When I read this, I kind of get the initial impression of people dressing like goths, and doing things that stand out with claims that they are non-conformists.
What is the point of not conforming for no other reason than "just because"?
Let me put it into perspective... if you're secure with yourself and you know that you don't care what other people think, then you actually wouldn't be a non-conformist.
If you go out of your way to do things simply becuase you don't want to conform them you actually DO care what people think and you try hard to make people think that you DON'T care by being a non-conformist.
The act of non-conformists behavior is more about being rebellious. I really don't care, you reap the harvest from seed you sow. If someone wants to not get along, then so be it but, they will also suffer the "rewards" for such behavior. As is true in any human culture, those that want to separate themselves from the group always find a way and it doesn't always work out the way they intend.
Ron
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10:28 AM
hklvette Member
Posts: 1439 From: Roanoke, VA Registered: Nov 2007
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but I have an honest question. When I read this, I kind of get the initial impression of people dressing like goths, and doing things that stand out with claims that they are non-conformists.
What is the point of not conforming for no other reason than "just because"?
Let me put it into perspective... if you're secure with yourself and you know that you don't care what other people think, then you actually wouldn't be a non-conformist.
If you go out of your way to do things simply becuase you don't want to conform them you actually DO care what people think and you try hard to make people think that you DON'T care by being a non-conformist.
This reminds me of a scene from the "you got served" episode of south park.
As for the OP.....rules are rules.
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10:33 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but I have an honest question. When I read this, I kind of get the initial impression of people dressing like goths, and doing things that stand out with claims that they are non-conformists.
What is the point of not conforming for no other reason than "just because"?
Let me put it into perspective... if you're secure with yourself and you know that you don't care what other people think, then you actually wouldn't be a non-conformist.
If you go out of your way to do things simply becuase you don't want to conform them you actually DO care what people think and you try hard to make people think that you DON'T care by being a non-conformist.
What I have always thought as well. Also if they have "goth" friends for example, they have conformed to eachother.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but I have an honest question. When I read this, I kind of get the initial impression of people dressing like goths, and doing things that stand out with claims that they are non-conformists.
What is the point of not conforming for no other reason than "just because"?
Let me put it into perspective... if you're secure with yourself and you know that you don't care what other people think, then you actually wouldn't be a non-conformist.
If you go out of your way to do things simply becuase you don't want to conform them you actually DO care what people think and you try hard to make people think that you DON'T care by being a non-conformist.
One reason is because you actually are different then them.
I personally didn't like the dress ( or behavior or hobbies ) of my fellow students in primary school(s), and refused to be like them 'just because everyone else is like that'. It was not to 'prove' anything or call attention to myself, i just refused to go along with the crowd when i disagreed with it. I did my own thing, regardless of how others felt, or any 'social repercussions'.
, no, he should not have to follow the schools dress code. No, he should not have to obey community/society laws. We all should be able to do whatever we want.
Or will, depending ...
