One reason is because you actually are different then them.
I personally didn't like the dress ( or behavior or hobbies ) of my fellow students in primary school(s), and refused to be like them 'just because everyone else is like that'. It was not to 'prove' anything or call attention to myself, i just refused to go along with the crowd when i disagreed with it. I did my own thing, regardless of how others felt, or any 'social repercussions'.
Sounds like resisting peer pressure. Not a bad thing.
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11:17 AM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
Originally posted by User00013170: I don't think its fair to say they are conformist if they are in the minority.
I do. The word "conform" means "to act according to certain accepted standards". Whether or not the standard is held by the majority or a minority doesn't really matter. The bottom line is that you're letting someone else dictate your behavior.
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01:06 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25714 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
One reason is because you actually are different then them.
I personally didn't like the dress ( or behavior or hobbies ) of my fellow students in primary school(s), and refused to be like them 'just because everyone else is like that'. It was not to 'prove' anything or call attention to myself, i just refused to go along with the crowd when i disagreed with it. I did my own thing, regardless of how others felt, or any 'social repercussions'.
I understand what you're saying, but I wonder if it's really been thought out. I genuinely feel that I am a VERY unique individual. It's not really by any particular choice I've made to do so, it's just kind of turned out that way. I own a Fiero... how many people do that? I have a LOT of hobbies, some of them are similar to other people's same interests, but that doesn't affect what my interests generally are.
My interests are always changing, I find different things to be exciting and interesting at different points in my life. This depends upon what my priorities are at that time in my life.
I guess what I'm trying to make the issue here is the ACT of being different, for the sake of being different, because you don't want to be like everyone else, but at the same time stating that you don't actually care what they think, when really, I think this wouldn't even be a conversation if that was really true. Again, I'm NOT trying to be a jerk, swear to God... It's just kind of a pet peeve of mine.
When I was younger, we had some goths in high school. I didn't really much think anything about them, other than the fact that they claimed to be non-conformists, yet they were actually in effect conforming regardless, it just so happened that it was one of many different "specific" conformities.
There's lots of things that I'VE personally NOT done, and made it a point to let people know. This might be considered non-conformism when faced with the fact that the majority of people are for that action. A perfect example is Michael Jackson. I remember back in like 1985... I guess I was 7 years old. Everyone though MJ was the most awesomest singer on the planet. My brother had all his albums, and I thought it was probably the "gayest" thing I'd ever heard. (kind of ironic because I did in fact really like Poison and Whitesnake). Everyone thought I was nuts that I didn't like Michael Jackson.
Another example is probably drug use. I don't really want to believe that MOST people have used or tried drugs... but I for one have never. I don't remember honestly the SPECIFIC reasons why I've never tried drugs, I want to say because I felt it was what the "losers" did, and didn't want to be apart of it, but more than likely it was becuse I felt a sense of wrong with the thought of actually doing it... like I had failed myself by succumbing to the requests of everyone else... like... it would make me a weaker person, that I lacked fortitude if I caved. I don't know obviously that I thought it if with such fancy terms when I was a teenager, but it probably went something like that.
I guess it comes down to what LEVEL of conformity are you talking about? Are you an all out "goth". Or, are you one of those people who strives horribly to be different by buying a Honda Civic Hatchback and installing a fart can and racing stripes, when really, that's the exact same thing that everyone else does who also feels the same way? Or are you more like me who makes their own path, rather than exclusively based on pre-conceived notions?
I put a massive ATARI logo on the back window of my Solstice. 99.9% of the population thinks I'm a huge nerd by doing so, but I did it for that .1% of the population who gets a kick out of it. I also wear disco shirts on Friday... most people think that's kind of weird, I do it because I think "the time" was awesome. Ok, well, honestly, I stopped that last part because I gained like 20 pounds since I hit 30, and I have to dress more appropriately at the office if I want to be successful. I also sold my Solstice and now drive a "conformist" Ford Explorer Sport which I absolutely LOVE.
Still have my Fiero though...
Anyway I don't know how I can really have this conversation without it sounding demeaning, so I apologize... it's not my intent. But... I do have a propencity for arguing, and well... here I am.
Dress Code It is expected that every student will maintain the level of personal hygiene and safety necessary to ensure a healthy school environment, and will refrain from any mode of dress which is distracting to classroom instruction or which contributes to the disruption of the normal function of the school. The dress code applies to all school functions. North Cobb High School complies with the dress code policies of the Cobb County School District. The following types of clothing are considered inappropriate at North Cobb: 1. Footwear (shoes) must be worn and appropriate for the school setting both in appearance and safety. House shoes/slippers are not acceptable footwear for school. 2. No headgear is to be worn in the school building during the school day. This includes hats, bandanas, do-rags, caps, hoods, scarves, sunglasses, and forehead bands. The hoods of hooded sweatshirts are not allowed on your head while in the building. Any items confiscated may be reclaimed on the last day of school by the student or when a parent picks them up. 3. Clothing or ornamentation, which advertises alcohol or substances that are illegal for, minors, or which displays suggestive phrases, designs, markings, or profanities are also prohibited. 4. Clothing that displays weapons, violence, gang affiliations, or other logos that cause dissension are not permitted. 5. Shirts may not be any longer than fingertip length if “un-tucked” from pants. 6. Backless or strapless dresses or shirts are not permitted. 7. No midriff shirts or blouses are permitted. Midriff areas must be covered so that no skin is exposed on the torso at any time (front or back). No sheer garments and no low-cut necklines are permitted. Cleavage must not show. 8. Appropriate undergarments must be worn. Clothing must not reveal undergarments. 9. Tank tops, strapless tops, and thin, strapped tops may not be worn. 10. Shorts, dresses and skirts that are too short: Note: Style and material may make certain garments inappropriate even at an appropriate length. Minimum length is fingertip length (standing or sitting). 11. Slits in dresses and skirts may be no shorter than fingertip length (standing or sitting). 23 12. No pajama pants, boxer shorts, cut-off sweat pants, spandex shorts or leggings worn alone or without appropriate outer garment of appropriate length. 13. All pants and trousers must be worn at waist level (no sagging or bagging). Pants must fit properly, no oversized pants. Pants may not have holes above knee length, unfastened belts, or exposed undergarments. 14. No coveralls or jumpsuits are allowed. School officials will make the interpretation of what is acceptable dress. Students who are judged to be inappropriately dressed will be allowed to change clothes, to call home for someone to bring a change of clothes, or for permission to go home to change clothes and return to school. Classes missed will be unexcused. Students unable to change will be required to wear North Cobb provided clothing. Repeat offenses will result in disciplinary action. IF IN DOUBT, DON’T WEAR IT! ------------------------------ Was he involved in the fight?
I think the staff is more upset about the apparel than the students. Yes, some of the outfits are flamboyant but if he tones it down he should be able to wear what he wants, ie dresses. The pink wig is over the top.
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01:27 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
I genuinely feel that I am a VERY unique individual.
Actually, no. You're not. Really.
I don't mean to be insulting, but it's a fact. You're not that unique.
Give me one of your interests that doesn't have some kind of club, association or user group that you can go and participate in? Can't do it. I once knew a girl that enjoyed going to cemetaries and doing charcoal rubbings of old headstones, transferring them to paper. I thought that was pretty unique, wierd, but unique. Nope. They have forums and even some kind of association.
You could say that "well, my interests are so diverse............" Hey, guess what, so are most other people's. In fact, it's unique to find anyone that is so single minded, so devoted in purpose, that they put ALL else aside in their lives for just that one thing.
"Oh, but nobody else enjoys my COMBINATION of things." Yeah, they probably do, and in fact many of them probably have MORE interests than you.
Legend goes that Wyatt Earp once said "no matter how fast you are, there's someone out there faster". Same thing with your "uniqueness". You (and I) are really not that special or unique, when taken in a broad context.
John Stricker
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02:12 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25714 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
I don't mean to be insulting, but it's a fact. You're not that unique.
Give me one of your interests that doesn't have some kind of club, association or user group that you can go and participate in? Can't do it. I once knew a girl that enjoyed going to cemetaries and doing charcoal rubbings of old headstones, transferring them to paper. I thought that was pretty unique, wierd, but unique. Nope. They have forums and even some kind of association.
You could say that "well, my interests are so diverse............" Hey, guess what, so are most other people's. In fact, it's unique to find anyone that is so single minded, so devoted in purpose, that they put ALL else aside in their lives for just that one thing.
"Oh, but nobody else enjoys my COMBINATION of things." Yeah, they probably do, and in fact many of them probably have MORE interests than you.
Legend goes that Wyatt Earp once said "no matter how fast you are, there's someone out there faster". Same thing with your "uniqueness". You (and I) are really not that special or unique, when taken in a broad context.
John Stricker
I know my post was REALLY long, so I don't blame you, but you definitely didn't read the entire thing because in so many words I more or less stated in part what you just replied to me with. I'm not insulted at all, becuause as I said, it's never ever been a goal of mine to BE unique. I like what I like, and if it happens, it happens. It doesn't make any difference to me regardless. Personally, I'm thankfull that there are people who share many of my interests because they would probably be pretty boring hobbies if I was the only one involved in them. Anyway, I would suggest re-reading it if you can stomach it... I know I start to ramble, but there was actually a point to my post. Heh...
I understand what you're saying, but I wonder if it's really been thought out. I genuinely feel that I am a VERY unique individual. It's not really by any particular choice I've made to do so, it's just kind of turned out that way. I own a Fiero... how many people do that? I have a LOT of hobbies, some of them are similar to other people's same interests, but that doesn't affect what my interests generally are.
My interests are always changing, I find different things to be exciting and interesting at different points in my life. This depends upon what my priorities are at that time in my life.
I guess what I'm trying to make the issue here is the ACT of being different, for the sake of being different, because you don't want to be like everyone else, but at the same time stating that you don't actually care what they think, when really, I think this wouldn't even be a conversation if that was really true. Again, I'm NOT trying to be a jerk, swear to God... It's just kind of a pet peeve of mine.
Its only a conversation due to the story in the OP
If you had known me at the time, there would have been no conversation there, id have just shrugged my shoulders 'i like flannel and waist length blue hair' and walked on, with the gf that had buzzed red hair and wore leather..... ( neither were part of the status quo when i was younger. it was just us.. )
But i do agree, that if its just an act to stand out and be a scene, then its an annoying waste.
WHY is some stupid, ignorant little jackass making headline News, above and beyond REAL people who are ALSO in a minority, but doing something GOOD for the World/environment/people?? Why do the News media pounce on unmitigated crap such as this, and blazon it across TV, newspapers and consequently Internet T/OT Forums??? Sadly, I am beginning to believe that it is because the General Public have been dumbed down to such an alarmingly-low level. it is all they care about any more. BASICALLY, I COULDN'T GIVE 2 OUNCES OF MOSQUITO-POO about this, or any other twerp, who seeks their 30 seconds of fame and acclaim, and even LESS for the Media who actually consider it worth even a milisecond of our time to read it. JEESH. Nick
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03:02 PM
jaskispyder Member
Posts: 21510 From: Northern MI Registered: Jun 2002
reminds me a bit of the Adam Sandler movie, where the kid went to school wearing his cowboy costume.
any bets on whether this dude has a dad?
It doesn't take a father to tell the kid how to dress... it takes a parent/guardian who in involved with their child. Single parents are not bad parents. There are just as many bad dual parent kids out there. Granted a lot of single parents may also come from improper upbringing, but throwing another parent in there won't change anything.
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04:07 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by jaskispyder: It doesn't take a father to tell the kid how to dress... it takes a parent/guardian who in involved with their child. Single parents are not bad parents. There are just as many bad dual parent kids out there. Granted a lot of single parents may also come from improper upbringing, but throwing another parent in there won't change anything.
well, wanna bet a Fiero Geo Coin on whether this kid has a dad? obviously he has a biological father - and possibly even a dad w/visitation
but, yes - I will admit that perhaps he just has an abusive dad.
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04:13 PM
jaskispyder Member
Posts: 21510 From: Northern MI Registered: Jun 2002
2) Escobar was specifically asked not to use the girls' restroom, but he disobeyed the school administrators and used the girls' room anyway. The administrators went so far as to allow him access to the faculty restroom to prevent him from being teased in the boys' room, but he chose to disobey and use the girls' room instead.
voyeur?
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05:42 PM
PFF
System Bot
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 10037 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
If a girl is allowed to wear skinny jeans and makeup, let the boy as well.
If a girl isn't allowed to wear a pink wig, then a boy shouldn't be allowed either.
We discriminate on sex all the time. Men can't use the women's restroom. A male police officer is not allowed to pat down a woman. Men and women have seperate locker rooms. Men and women have seperate showers and saunas. We even have seperate boys and girls sports.
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05:45 PM
Oct 9th, 2009
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
Tell me I didn't read your post in it's entirety (which I did)
Then tell me that you agree with what I wrote, which is to say you're not really all that unique.
My only response to that is...............
HUH??
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I know my post was REALLY long, so I don't blame you, but you definitely didn't read the entire thing because in so many words I more or less stated in part what you just replied to me with. I'm not insulted at all, becuause as I said, it's never ever been a goal of mine to BE unique. I like what I like, and if it happens, it happens. It doesn't make any difference to me regardless. Personally, I'm thankfull that there are people who share many of my interests because they would probably be pretty boring hobbies if I was the only one involved in them. Anyway, I would suggest re-reading it if you can stomach it... I know I start to ramble, but there was actually a point to my post. Heh...
I blame the parents on this one. Where are they when the kid needs them? This is the kind of thing that is decaying away Americas morals. Kids SHOULD NOT be able to do anything they want and neither should adults. True freedom has rules and guidelines. Blurring them is cancerous.
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02:06 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25714 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Tell me I didn't read your post in it's entirety (which I did)
Then tell me that you agree with what I wrote, which is to say you're not really all that unique.
My only response to that is...............
HUH??
John Stricker
Now I'm really confused, hah... (probably my fault).
Anyway, I DO think, honestly, that I am a unique individual, not by choice. Uniqueness is relative. I understand your argument that whatever it is that you think you're good at, there's always someone out there twice as good, I totally agree.
Let me say though that I think it's our combinations of interests that DO make us unique. Of course, I realize that I probably have at least 10 total equals out there (I first wrote 100, but then realized that I might be the only one here who likes Fieros, Atari, AND works for an NFL football team).
I understand your argument about no one REALLY being an individual, and I can appreciate it, and for the most part I do agree with you. The real point I was trying to make though, is that for me at least, it's never been a consideration. I've never actually attempted to BE unique... if I AM unique, it just kind of happened.
I mean, my interests are pretty ghetto. No offense to anyone here, but I've never been lauded by anyone because of my desire to fix and work on Pontiac Fieros. For the most part, I actually like crappy cars. I would rather have a Ferrari 308 GTS than an Enzo (not accounting for actual $$$ value). Well... maybe I wouldn't go THAT far. But all the cars that I really like, are crappy cars... Maserati BiTurbo, Porsche 944, Porsche 928, Volvo P1800, etc... cars that most other people wouldn't be caught dead in. So it's not like my personality is something to be desired. But it doesn't bother me.
Just in case I've clouded the point too much, this all goes back to one of the comments made by NurburgRing or whatever where he said that he would do stuff just because he wanted to be different.
I find that when you TRY to be different, you end up being that much more "the same" as everyone else, but when you allow your own genuine interests and goals to direct your life without any real concern about what other people ACTUALLY think, you become an individual (even if there may be someone else out there with your same interests).
Does that make sense, or am I just too vague for my own good?
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Now I'm really confused, hah... (probably my fault).
Anyway, I DO think, honestly, that I am a unique individual, not by choice. Uniqueness is relative. I understand your argument that whatever it is that you think you're good at, there's always someone out there twice as good, I totally agree. .....
we all are. some more than others. but we are all unique. and, this Jonathan Escobar is unique as well. and, his clothes are not what makes it so. just because I share an interest (Fieros) with everyone here, I am sure we will all agree we are not all the same.
anyways, overall - I dont see to much of a problem for others if he insists on dressing as he does - but, it seems that it would be in his own best interests to maybe allow himself to be educated, instead of being distracted by the spotlight. it would seem the easy answer is to shut off the spotlight. just the fact that we, folk who have no actual vestment in this are discussing it, implies that "the freeks" are getting their wish. had noone said a thing, and just let it go, this would go away on its own - or - Jonathan Escobar would be forced to escalate to even more drastic measures to be paid attention too. which way...ya never know...and would it be good bad? violent maybe?
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09:29 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25714 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
we all are. some more than others. but we are all unique. and, this Jonathan Escobar is unique as well. and, his clothes are not what makes it so. just because I share an interest (Fieros) with everyone here, I am sure we will all agree we are not all the same.
anyways, overall - I dont see to much of a problem for others if he insists on dressing as he does - but, it seems that it would be in his own best interests to maybe allow himself to be educated, instead of being distracted by the spotlight. it would seem the easy answer is to shut off the spotlight. just the fact that we, folk who have no actual vestment in this are discussing it, implies that "the freeks" are getting their wish. had noone said a thing, and just let it go, this would go away on its own - or - Jonathan Escobar would be forced to escalate to even more drastic measures to be paid attention too. which way...ya never know...and would it be good bad? violent maybe?
His name sounds like a South American drug lord...
WHY is some stupid, ignorant little jackass making headline News, above and beyond REAL people who are ALSO in a minority, but doing something GOOD for the World/environment/people?? Why do the News media pounce on unmitigated crap such as this, and blazon it across TV, newspapers and consequently Internet T/OT Forums??? Sadly, I am beginning to believe that it is because the General Public have been dumbed down to such an alarmingly-low level. it is all they care about any more. BASICALLY, I COULDN'T GIVE 2 OUNCES OF MOSQUITO-POO about this, or any other twerp, who seeks their 30 seconds of fame and acclaim, and even LESS for the Media who actually consider it worth even a milisecond of our time to read it. JEESH. Nick
Beacuse that is how they get their ratings. Talking about the 'average joe' doesnt help those ratings ( $$ )
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12:44 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25714 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
BASICALLY, I COULDN'T GIVE 2 OUNCES OF MOSQUITO-POO about this, or any other twerp, who seeks their 30 seconds of fame and acclaim, and even LESS for the Media who actually consider it worth even a milisecond of our time to read it.
Nick
Wow, can you imagine the amount of painstaking effort, work, and energy that would be required to gather 2 ounces of mosquito poop???
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Wow, can you imagine the amount of painstaking effort, work, and energy that would be required to gather 2 ounces of mosquito poop???
ur right... actually, i dont think that there is a person on the planet who could give 2 ounces of mosquito poop to ANY cause, much less this one.
its not discriminating. girls wearing skinny jeans and makeup does not lead to nearly so much of a distraction as a guy doing the same. i barely notice (most) girls in skinny jeans, but i can tell you how many guys i saw wearing them today. i mark it simply because i see that and it is something that i notice and, usually, is something that tells me i want to avoid that person. i dont hate gays, im not a homophobe, i just dont really want to associate with most of the ones who are in your face about that fact. probably because most of them dont realize that (straight) guys are not actually like in the movies, and thus will be overly objectifying of anyone they deem hot. i dont want to hear it any more than i want to hear that from any girl excluding my gf. IMO, a gay guy telling me im hot would hav the same effect as an incredibly ugly girl telling me the same. though if he didnt back down i would hit him, whereas i wont hit a girl. gays (as a general rule) ask to be treated the same, then get angry if you actually do so
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03:39 PM
PFF
System Bot
Oct 10th, 2009
MidEngineManiac Member
Posts: 29566 From: Some unacceptable view Registered: Feb 2007
Originally posted by cliffw: We all should be able to do whatever we want.
More or less, yes !
Th only acceptable reason for "laws" is the protection of the person or property of another--NOT--their sensibilities apart from a very narrow range.
YUP, x-dressers are weird. NOPE, I dont wanna sit beside one on a bus, and no I sure as crap dont want one in my home. I would probably refuse to do business with one as well unless the numbers were VERY high--but that is a PRIVATE and PERSONAL interaction between 2 individuals.
But I aint-about to support the idea of the government or any other institution dictating what somebody can wear (or think, or say). Doing "whatever we want" is the basic essence of freedom which I DO support wholeheartedly.
A lot of people with visible tats (me included) have had to deal with the same basic B-S in certain circles. Different "fashion" item, but same basic premise.--that somebody else has the authority to dictate how you shall present yourself (hair/face/cloths/tats ect). While private companies may be able to get away with it under contact law to some extent, the public at large or publically-funded institutions can and will not.
I am not interested in "its distracting" (your lack of focus is your own problem), "its immoral" (By who's morals?), "I dont like it"(I dont effin care) or any other excuse for violation of some basic rights and freedoms.
I think the kid is stranger than a $3 bill, but Kudo's to him for having the gonads to stand up and be free.
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08:26 AM
PaulJK Member
Posts: 6638 From: Los Angeles Registered: Oct 2001
Political correctness is detroying our culture 98% of people are comformist in some way,, there is rebellion to be different .. Political correctness has slowly brought us here ..Now we have a communist as a president,,from the most corrupt area of the most corrupt county in the USA,, WAKE UP ! do something..anything !! Ive known a few people who were different ,,one Biker use to kill girls and then would take them around in his pickup,when the smell got to bad .. a Trip to the trash pile,was in order!!,Crazy JOE Spaziano was certainly different ,Different people normally should be in Prison,, the other people just want to be noticed,, the different want to belong very,very badly..but they choose something different from normal to be ""different"" I never wanted to be different ,,just slid into it.. But always thought of myself as normal..or close !! You are just riding around on your Triumph 650cc bonnie,, wearing motorcycle shop T shirts ,,and you wake up one day with hair to your azz,seldom bathe, a really long beard,, living off the earnings of a couple of women,you sleep on the floor , and the place you live, is an armed camp with Iron plates along the walls..but never thought I was really different ,,but my family did !! My mom saw me on TV in handcuffs,she did not regonize me,, untill the name..Young men wearing dresses?? adult stuff ?? high school boys should keep thier fantasie & panties in the closet,this kids butt is tingleling, ,I prefer pink/black really lacy panties ,for high school.. Moral collapse !! Jesus is comming,, he will be driving a semi Truck loaded with nooses.. How does your neck feel ??
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05:58 PM
May 23rd, 2010
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
PEMBROKE PINES, Fla. (AP) -- A South Florida high school student who lobbied to attend the prom in drag ended up suspended altogether during the event.
Broward schools spokeswoman Nadine Drew says senior Omar Bonilla was disciplined because he parked in a "visitor" space and refused to follow orders to move.
Bonilla claims he was frantically late to a meeting with school officials over his plan to wear a dress to the Friday prom and never heard the order.
School officials were concerned Bonilla would be attacked at the Flanagan High dance in a dress. The senior ran for prom queen, but learned he finished second the same day administrators suspended him for two days during the event.
Bonilla says he was trying to encourage closeted fellow students to abandon their fears and be themselves.
[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 05-23-2010).]
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12:47 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27111 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
"Meanwhile, a student group on Facebook called "Support Jonathan" has grown to over 1,000 members. Organizers have printed bright pink T-shirts emblazoned with those words which many students plan to wear to school to show their displeasure, the paper said."
Does *everything* have to turn into a national story and a fricken *cause*?
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01:27 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27111 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Originally posted by jstricker: You could say that "well, my interests are so diverse............" Hey, guess what, so are most other people's. In fact, it's unique to find anyone that is so single minded, so devoted in purpose, that they put ALL else aside in their lives for just that one thing.
I'll bet they have a forum for that.
quote
Legend goes that Wyatt Earp once said "no matter how fast you are, there's someone out there faster". Same thing with your "uniqueness". You (and I) are really not that special or unique, when taken in a broad context.
John Stricker
It brings to mind the phrase "Yeah, yeah, you're unique...just like everyone else".
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01:31 PM
86SEin93003 Member
Posts: 274 From: ventura,ca USA Registered: Feb 2005
This kid at a local Jr high dressed like a girl and wore make-up and another classmate shot him inthe back of the head. its a three page artical I only put the first page on here.
Killing called a hate crime 14-year-old is charged in shooting of Oxnard classmate The StateFebruary 15, 2008|Catherine Saillant and Amanda Covarrubias, Times Staff Writers
Ventura County prosecutors charged a 14-year-old boy with the shooting death of a classmate Thursday and said the killing in an Oxnard classroom was a premeditated hate crime.
Senior Deputy Dist. Atty. Maeve Fox declined to discuss a motive in the shooting or why prosecutors added the special allegation of a hate crime against Brandon McInerney, who was charged as an adult But classmates of the slain boy, Lawrence King, said he recently had started to wear makeup and jewelry and had proclaimed himself gay. Several students said King and a group of boys, including the defendant, had a verbal confrontation concerning King's sexual orientation a day before the killing.
King, 15, was declared brain-dead and was expected to be taken off a ventilator late Thursday so organs could be removed for donation, said Craig Stevens, senior county deputy medical examiner.
King was shot in the head early Tuesday in a classroom full of students at E.O. Green Junior High School. Police said the suspect fled and was apprehended a few blocks away.
McInerney's family was in a Ventura courtroom Thursday as the adolescent was brought into a holding chamber to face charges.
His arraignment was delayed to give his attorney time to review the police investigation before entering a plea.
McInerney was charged with premeditated murder with enhancements of use of a firearm and a hate crime.
Because he is a minor, McInerney will remain in Juvenile Hall and be taken to the Ventura courtroom for court appearances, Fox said. He is being held in lieu of $770,000 bail.
If convicted, McInerney could face 50 years to life. The hate crime enhancement would add another one to three years to his sentence.
"In Ventura County, we've never had a violent shooting like this," Fox said. "It's very tragic."
The defendant's family declined to talk to reporters, rushing out of the courthouse after a short hearing. But his attorney, Brian Vogel, said McInerney and the boy's family also were hurting.
"Both Brandon and the family are terribly sad to learn [King] is brain-dead," he said.
Vogel declined to discuss the case but said he would ask the court to move it back into the juvenile system. McInerney had no criminal history and was generally a good student at E.O. Green, where he was an eighth-grader.
Vogel said the boy turned 14, the legal cutoff for charging an adolescent as an adult, on Jan. 24. Voters gave prosecutors the option of charging teenage suspects as adults under 2002's Proposition 21.
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01:46 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
My opinions are first, if there is a school dress code that lays out what boys and girls must wear, he has to conform.
Where I would sway from that is if this boy intends to go thru life as a girl, and will have the operations and legal documents to back it up. If hes going to 'change' to be a girl, and goes thru whatever is necessary he should be able to wear what the girls dress code states. To me its about intent. I would have to know that, whether its just for attention, fame, cause trouble or whatever. If hes going the full route, id have no problem. State will give him a female drivers license, and recognize a new female name granted by a court so why not.
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03:23 PM
htexans1 Member
Posts: 9116 From: Clear Lake City/Houston TX Registered: Sep 2001
