i agree what you're saying about rapists, pedos, murderers, etc in that they do not deserve the same place on this earth as the rest of us. but as my mother once told me: "two wrongs don't make a right." i may be pushing my beliefs and morals here and i'm sorry, but bragging about death threats and "justified" murder isn't going to gain you many friends, at least the kind of friends i like to be around.

you can take your juggalo family and keep it, i just don't think it's for me.

quote Originally posted by faaaaq: but no, majority doesnt rule. being a juggalo has a set meaning. if you dont fit that image, you arent a real juggalo.

A lot of what you seem to be saying seems to be full of contradictions, if there is an image you must fit then you are conforming. And who defined this image? The majority of juggalo's or king of the juggalo's?
It sounds like most any other group that tries to set itself apart by being the same.

Not trying to be negative about your desire to belong to a "group" but when I was your age people didn't know whether to lump me in with the heads, the nerds, the jocks, the motorheads, or the rednecks. I did not purposely try to conform to anyone's standards and was therefore my own person.
I listened to and played primarily hard rock/metal but listened to a little bit of everything. Playing guitar and jamming with others gave me an appreciation of actual music from the simplistic to the more progressive. Anyone who is limiting themselves to one genre is following the crowd, no matter how small or how big that crowd is.

------------------
Dealing with failure is easy: work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: you've solved the wrong problem, work hard to improve.

quote Originally posted by fastblack: for one thing its illegal. no offense in any way, actually i'm trying to help in a weird way. you need to look at yourself and what you're saying and maybe re-evaluate some things in your life. taking another person's life is never right...even if they deserved it.

I'd have to disagree, I can see where it would be considered "just" if only by one person.

It's a matter of opinion though and O/T. I'm learning about juggalos here .

Brad

quote Originally posted by fastblack: "two wrongs don't make a right." .

But three lefts do!

quote Originally posted by DRA: A lot of what you seem to be saying seems to be full of contradictions, if there is an image you must fit then you are conforming. And who defined this image? The majority of juggalo's or king of the juggalo's? It sounds like most any other group that tries to set itself apart by being the same. Not trying to be negative about your desire to belong to a "group" but when I was your age people didn't know whether to lump me in with the heads, the nerds, the jocks, the motorheads, or the rednecks. I did not purposely try to conform to anyone's standards and was therefore my own person. I listened to and played primarily hard rock/metal but listened to a little bit of everything. Playing guitar and jamming with others gave me an appreciation of actual music from the simplistic to the more progressive. Anyone who is limiting themselves to one genre is following the crowd, no matter how small or how big that crowd is.

i also listen to everything, and nobody knows where to place me (usually with the metalheads for some reason....). the image isnt like a set definition. you just gotta at least at one point have liked ICPs music, and agree with the major views and whatnot.

and fastblack, i hope you didnt get the impression i was bragging. i dont find murder or death "cool," i was just using myself as an example.

and yes, killing someone who deserves it doesnt make anything right, but if they deserve it, someone should give it to them. in MANY cases, someone has killed someone who got off from a serious charge and deserved to die anyways, and they themselves were released because no jury in their right mind could find the person guilty. not saying thats COMMON, but it shows that even if it isnt said, many people agree with me on that topic

quote Originally posted by faaaaq: ...in MANY cases...not saying thats COMMON...

too many contradictions to take you seriously, i'm going to bed.

quote Originally posted by faaaaq: in MANY cases, someone has killed someone who got off from a serious charge and deserved to die anyways, and they themselves were released because no jury in their right mind could find the person guilty.

Maybe in the movies dude!

So if I listened to one ICP song and enjoyed it I am a juggalo? Don't think so.

And these "ideals", they are unique to juggalos?

quote Originally posted by DRA: Maybe in the movies dude! So if I listened to one ICP song and enjoyed it I am a juggalo? Don't think so. And these "ideals", they are unique to juggalos?

i never said that makes you a Juggalo.... :P

i do not know of any other group who has the same exact ideals as juggalos, but im sure there are group with similar ideals. juggalos share ideals AND a taste in music. the music is what initially brings juggalos together. you CHOOSE to be a juggalo. anyone can claim to be a juggalo, i just dont consider them REAL juggalos unless they fit what me and original/oldskool juggalos consider the real image of a juggalo

quote Originally posted by faaaaq: yes seriously. if you have a good reason, what is wrong with giving a death threat? first, even if you are serious, chances are you would never follow thru with it, and second, if you have a good reason then obviously they deserve it. i myself have made a serious death threat or two. you cant argue with (or accept) a SERIOUS death threat unless you know the circumstances behind it. im 19.

So even if some one doesn't follow through with their threat, its ok to make the other person fear you? So some ones life deserves to be threatened because you think they deserve it?
Awesome.

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quote Originally posted by fastblack: too many contradictions to take you seriously, i'm going to bed.

that isnt a contradiction...lol. there can be a lot of something without it being common. it i have 200million rings, and only 2 million of them are green, there are a LOT of green rings, but they are NOT common

[This message has been edited by faaaaq (edited 03-12-2010).]

quote Originally posted by faaaaq: i never said that makes you a Juggalo.... :P i do not know of any other group who has the same exact ideals as juggalos, but im sure there are group with similar ideals. juggalos share ideals AND a taste in music. the music is what initially brings juggalos together. you CHOOSE to be a juggalo. anyone can claim to be a juggalo, i just dont consider them REAL juggalos unless they fit what me and original/oldskool juggalos consider the real image of a juggalo

I haven't really heard any ideals specified accept that you had to listen to and enjoy a particular music, treat people in your click with respect and like family. That defines hundreds if not thousands of clicks big and small. Maybe I missed something but it's bad enough to be labeled by others, don't label yourself.

quote Originally posted by faaaaq: i didnt start this thread yet is because im new here, and id like to have a good reputation with the fiero crowd,

Before this thread goes any further downhill let me throw my two pennies in the pile. The crowd here on PFF is mostly a 30+ crowd. Most of us, as shown by all the Wiki articles, have no clue what a Juggalo is. When I was younger I used my associations with groups, or trends, or fads as a way to identify myself. Call it validating my identity with other like minded individuals I guess. I respect your opinion and your right to voice it in a public opinion. But consider this..

quote Insane Clown Posse and Psychopathic Records have stated that there is no true definition of a Juggalo. In a press release from Insane Clown Posse, they say "there are no requirements to being a Juggalo. We don't care if you spend a dime on merch, or if you know the words to every song. If this music touches you, and you get some positive experience from it, we would be honored to have you consider yourself a Juggalo."[14] In a 2005 interview, Joseph Utsler explained, "you could be a Juggalo and not even listen to ICP. A Juggalo is a frame of mind and what not. And I was a Juggalo before we started with ICP. [...] You don't even have to ****in' necessarily listen to [Psychopathic Records] to be a Juggalo. Juggalos are Juggalos."[15]

I'm thinking WTF is he talking about?

quote Following the 2005 Gathering, Quarry Park owner Evan Kelley stated that the grounds would no longer host the event. Kelly has said: "Psychopathic Records broke some of the rules set down for the 2005 event, including blasting music all night long", and: "Drugs, alcohol, nudity, profanity and trash also became serious problems

Doesn't sound like something I want to be a part of, but were not done yet...

quote Authorities have classified Juggalos as a gang in Utah,[21] Arizona,[4] Monroe County, Pennsylvania[22][23] and Modesto, California.[24]

quote living is not a privileged, its something you earn over time

quote im not justifying murder,,,,,,,, but if they deserve it, someone should give it to them

OK, I'm sure of it..I'm confused.

quote in MANY cases, someone has killed someone who got off from a serious charge and deserved to die anyways, and they themselves were released because no jury in their right mind could find the person guilty.

LINK?

quote Originally posted by faaaaq: i do not know of any other group who has the same exact ideals as juggalos, but im sure there are group with similar ideals. juggalos share ideals AND a taste in music. the music is what initially brings juggalos together. you CHOOSE to be a juggalo. anyone can claim to be a juggalo, i just dont consider them REAL juggalos unless they fit what me and original/oldskool juggalos consider the real image of a juggalo

I think I'm getting it, it's kind of like the KISS ARMY! LOL

[This message has been edited by DRA (edited 03-12-2010).]

quote Originally posted by faaaaq: so YOU are saying someone raping children and getting out free is right

Wow you got it spot on. No. I'm just saying you don't need to threaten some ones life. Not everything needs to end in violence or death. Notice how we can put these child rapist in jail with out saying "I'm going to kill you."

As for my opinion on the whole "Juggalo" community supporting family and being friendly with each other. What a load of crap. I'm the same age as you, I don't know about your high school but in mine, every one who liked ICP and what not were anti-social and just plain idiots. They couldn't have cared less about each other so I'm not seeing this whole family thing. Even at my college now all the people wearing ICP crap act anti-social and aren't too friendly. So if you could show me examples of "juggalos" being family, that would be great.

[This message has been edited by Fiero_Fan_88 (edited 03-12-2010).]

quote Originally posted by WBailey1041: LINK?

the second quote is pretty much what ive been trying to say. second to last quote, i meant im not saying murder is ok, but sometimes it needs to happen. like killing animals for food. NOT ok, but its gotta be done. everythig negative youve quoted is because of the negative rep the new breed is causing. the third quote, well, thats not exclusive to Juggalos.

and in regarded to asking for a quote, i care far to little on the subject of proving myself to be correct, especially since this thread was severely derailed (partly because of myself) and that was way off topic lol.


just remember, morals are objective. everyone has their own set. yes the majority pretty much has a similar set to eachother, but there is no way to know which is right and which is wwrong. society just follows whatever the majority agrees on, which varies greatly from culture to culture.

and as for your first statement in regard to the quote from my original post, im not doing it to validate myself, or fit in, or be different. your reasoning in that statement should also apply to religions and any similar groups...no? i simply enjoy being around people who feel the same as me, same reason Fiero folk come to this forum and dont spout of fiero stories over on a honda forum

[This message has been edited by faaaaq (edited 03-12-2010).]

quote Originally posted by faaaaq: and please, if you arent going to be respectful, please leave. you wouldnt go on the forums of Muslims or something similar and be rude about how you think their ideals are bull and whatnot. and if you would do that, please dont post any further in this thread.

k, i can't sleep. this isn't an ICP forum AND you're in O/T AND ya kinda brought this upon yourself. i admit i had a part in starting this but i think the whole death threat thing may have got the attention of some people and now you have to explain yourself. if you get on a subject like this, you're going to have objections.

quote Originally posted by fastblack: k, i can't sleep. this isn't an ICP forum AND you're in O/T AND ya kinda brought this upon yourself. i admit i had a part in starting this but i think the whole death threat thing may have got the attention of some people and now you have to explain yourself. if you get on a subject like this, you're going to have objections.

i know that. i have nothing wrong with objections and people disagreeing. i simply do not like people being rude about it

quote Originally posted by fastblack: k, i can't sleep. this isn't an ICP forum AND you're in O/T AND ya kinda brought this upon yourself. i admit i had a part in starting this but i think the whole death threat thing may have got the attention of some people and now you have to explain yourself. if you get on a subject like this, you're going to have objections.

Right, It's as simple as that. I disagree with you and from examples of what I've seen in my schools I've created an opinion about ICP followers, so I asked you to prove my opinion wrong. I just believe your opinion holds no weight because you cannot back up your opinion with reason. I can support mine from what I've seen in school, discussing ICP with people at school, and reports from news. I also disagree with your death views. Not trying to be rude about it as much as trying to get you to explain yourself.

this thread is getting off track rather quickly. What ever happened to listing to tom petty?

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: Right, It's as simple as that. I disagree with you and from examples of what I've seen in my schools I've created an opinion about ICP followers, so I asked you to prove my opinion wrong. I just believe your opinion holds no weight because you cannot back up your opinion with reason. I can support mine from what I've seen in school, discussing ICP with people at school, and reports from news. I also disagree with your death views. Not trying to be rude about it as much as trying to get you to explain yourself.

i understand that. i can support myself with what IVE seen, the people i interact with, what ive seen, etc. we cannot supprt an argument with such things tho, as there is no proof. please feel free to disagree, and say so if you so please, but again, just try not to be rude about it... id much rather discuss this with people who disagre with me, so long as they are polite about it and whatnot

quote Originally posted by faaaaq: i understand that. i can support myself with what IVE seen, the people i interact with, what ive seen, etc. we cannot supprt an argument with such things tho, as there is no proof. please feel free to disagree, and say so if you so please, but again, just try not to be rude about it... id much rather discuss this with people who disagre with me, so long as they are polite about it and whatnot

i gotta give ya a + for not getting pissed. You have stood your ground very well

quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi: this thread is getting off track rather quickly. What ever happened to listing to tom petty?

i heard that gunslingers song today on sirius. been a while so i had to get into the great wide open out...very refreshing music.

quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi: i gotta give ya a + for not getting pissed. You have stood your ground very well

i openly support people with different opinions, and unless memory fails me, havent gotten angry since i was under 10 years old lol. i LOVE discussing things that are touchy with people who disagree, so long as it is a civil, polite discussion. for some reason, people being rude and whatnot just bothers me like you wouldnt believe lol

quote Originally posted by faaaaq: i know that. i have nothing wrong with objections and people disagreeing. i simply do not like people being rude about it

Might want to grow a thicker skin if you want to hang in O/T, some of these guys can be brutal when it comes to personal beliefs, especially religion and politics! LOL

And hate to say it but this thread ceased to be yours when you posted it on a public forum, kinda a freedom of speech thing. People are gonna comment, ask questions, give opinions, etc, some may rub others the wrong way but if you don't like it just ignore them and don't respond to them.

quote Originally posted by fastblack: i heard that gunslingers song today on sirius. been a while so i had to get into the great wide open out...very refreshing music.

ever listen to ACDC while driving your Fiero? makes me wanna drive really fast lol...


and dra, it is very impolite to ignore people, everyone deserves to be acknowledged. my skin is plenty thick, just like i said people being rude is just one of the few things that gets to me

rammstien is the best music to drive fast to.

quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi: rammstien is the best music to drive fast to.

youtube "Just ridin" by Liquid Assassin. hes a rapper, but its not a rap song. its a mellow, kinda sad-sounding song about just getting in your car and driving, forgetting about everything (and getting high, but i ignore that part kuz i dont do drugs lol)

Fair enough. Though, here is my reasoning on why I think the whole juggalo thing doesn't hold any weight because of cases like this. They don't sound to family like to me.

http://www.modbee.com/2009/...tried-as-a-gang.html

http://www.jeremyjojola.com...e-some-icp-fans.html

quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi: rammstien is the best music to drive fast to.

Scorpions Love Drive, love Coast to Coast in the car.
Try Priest, Hell Bent for Leather, another good driving tune.

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: Fair enough. Though, here is my reasoning on why I think the whole juggalo thing doesn't hold any weight because of cases like this. They don't sound to family like to me. http://www.modbee.com/2009/...tried-as-a-gang.html http://www.jeremyjojola.com...e-some-icp-fans.html

thanks for the links!

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: Fair enough. Though, here is my reasoning on why I think the whole juggalo thing doesn't hold any weight because of cases like this. They don't sound to family like to me. http://www.modbee.com/2009/...tried-as-a-gang.html http://www.jeremyjojola.com...e-some-icp-fans.html

i understand that. but think of it like this (i hope to not offend anyone): most of the time, if there is a story on a black person in the news, its because they committed a crime. if you watch those crime shows on TRUE, most shows have EXCLUSIVELY black criminals. the average person (in many areas) mostly sees the actions of "bad" black people. yet, most people do not generalize black people as being criminal. same thing with children, most of the time (in my experience), if i notice a child in public, it is because they are being naughty or something, but i dont generalize every little kid as being naughty.

and PLEASE remember lol, i do understand where you are coming from. as a Juggalo, i experience, and am witness to, far more of that of that bull than the average person. if you came and chilled with me an my juggalo friends, youd see we are nothing like what show up in the news. granted, most of my friends DO smoke weed, but otherwise, being a juggalo is all about respect, and being able to be whoever you want to be. yes, dra quoted ICP as saying there is no definition of a juggalo, but it is not up to ICP to decide, and yes, many other groups are very similar to what ive said MY vision of what being a juggalo is. the only difference is my vision of a real Juggalo would have other similar opinions and views as i do.


oh, and props to the Fiero community, specifically 87antuzzi (dunno how to explain the reason lol), DRA (fer disagreeing to such an extreme, while still keeping it polite and whatnot for the most part), and Fiero_Fan_88 (for initially coming off as a d*ck in my opinion, but adequately explaining them self in such a way as to make up for the initial impression lol).


i was hoping that the bond, however superficial, in our shared love for the Fiero would make it more likely for people to at least acknowledge my views, and do your darnedest to understand where im coming from. that turned out to not be how it worked, but in the present state of the world, its silly to expect to be largely accepted, by ANY group of people, no matter what the bond. hell, even my own father, who i have most things in common with, and even tho he wont say it loves me to death, would most likely disown me if i ever turned out to be gay. we can discontinue this thread, and i will not again make the mistake of trying to discuss such touchy and taboo things. thanks to some of you for trying to understand, tho. i was just hold great pride in being part of the Fiero community, and would rather not gain a bad reputation due to a misunderstanding or simple disagreement :/

[This message has been edited by faaaaq (edited 03-12-2010).]

quote Originally posted by faaaaq: i was hoping that the bond, however superficial, in our shared love for the Fiero would make it more likely for people to at least acknowledge my views, and do your darnedest to understand where im coming from. that turned out to not be how it worked, but in the present state of the world, its silly to expect to be largely accepted, by ANY group of people, no matter what the bond. hell, even my own father, who i have most things in common with, and even tho he wont say it loves me to death, would most likely disown me if i ever turned out to be gay. we can discontinue this thread, and i will not again make the mistake of trying to discuss such touchy and taboo things. thanks to some of you for trying to understand, tho. i was just hold great pride in being part of the Fiero community, and would rather not gain a bad reputation due to a misunderstanding or simple disagreement :/

be happy ya started this thread here. IMO this forum is one of the best for civilized debate. sure it gets out of hand sometimes but i know of other forums where you would have been chewed up and spit out before you could type out your first reply.

quote Originally posted by fastblack: be happy ya started this thread here. IMO this forum is one of the best for civilized debate. sure it gets out of hand sometimes but i know of other forums where you would have been chewed up and spit out before you could type out your first reply.

i know lol. if it were a forum that wasnt of a group i want to be a part of, i would have been far more defensive and hostile lol. it feels good to let loose and unleash on the internet every now and then, especially when youre intelligent enough to use words to bring people down and not resort to "if i ever see you im going to kick your a$$! lol, but id much rather have a civil discussion.


and, sorry for not specifically saying thanks to you in that last post lol, i just happened to have those thee in the frame of the scroll box below where you type to post comments lol

i have friends who are juggalos. one of them is a little b**** who is way to down with the clown. He is so caught up in it. Everything he owns has a hatchet man on it. ICP has gone way to commercial. The other friend i have is always calm and collected. You would not picture him listening to icp. Like many say "its only music".

I know what your saying and I'm just simply disagreeing. You cannot forget there are lurkers who may agree with you but don't feel the need to tell you. If you haven't noticed already we always discuss taboo and touchy subjects (My philosophy class only discusses taboos and controversial things) and what I've learned is we need the arguments. What would be great about a thread full of "yep... yes... yea... yes."? So my suggestion is keep making controversial topics it makes things livelier.

PS: Taboo questions:
Do you manscape?
Fold or wad?
Sit or stand when you pee?

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: I know what your saying and I'm just simply disagreeing. You cannot forget there are lurkers who may agree with you but don't feel the need to tell you. If you haven't noticed already we always discuss taboo and touchy subjects (My philosophy class only discusses taboos and controversial things) and what I've learned is we need the arguments. What would be great about a thread full of "yep... yes... yea... yes."? So my suggestion is keep making controversial topics it makes things livelier. PS: Taboo questions: Do you manscape? Fold or wad? Sit or stand when you pee?

no, but MAYBE if requested and rewarded
fold
stand, unless im feeling gassy lol

ive always wanted a class like that....closest thing ive had to that was a class my junior year, "Human Sexuality." the teacher was very open and most classes lead to very personal, opinionated discussions, which are my favorite as long as it stays civil


i know, i dont often talk about many things with my dad because we agree far too often lol. the only problem is, i dont like people being rude if its something i care about, but if i dont care about the topic, its likely ill get bored lol, unless its a highly interesting topic. i will admit that i DO care what everyone here thinks of me, and therefor i carefully think out each thing i say, so defending myself from someone being rude or getting out of hand is quite hard lol (and like i said, i find it rude to simply ignore people lol)

[This message has been edited by faaaaq (edited 03-12-2010).]

Well, after reading almost every post in this thread, I've decided that I have two friends that are Jugheads. Mike and John, are you with us?

Ron

quote Originally posted by faaaaq: Im a Juggalo because i like ICP's/Psychopathic's music, and i like the ideals of the Juggalo community.

So, you joined a cult because you like them ? Or, so you will be liked ?
Serious question.