Originally posted by Wolfhound: My understanding is they allegedly confessed.
I thought that I had heard that too. To what was not specific. 'Cept now I have heard discussions on what penalties they might face, depending on what they are charged with. So, I don't know that we have a clear confession to a felony crime.
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04:02 AM
pokeyfiero Member
Posts: 16233 From: Free America! Registered: Dec 2003
So instead of offering any reasoned debate on any subject, you revert to name-calling, repugnant behavior. I hope you change.
I didn't mention your mother or you inparticular.
The point was there is no debate. Conservatives as a whole don't condone breaking the law and liberals believe it is ok as long as it is in there best interest. Hell even the constitution doesn't seem to mean anything as most liberals believe it is a living document meant to be changed to meet their views.
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04:12 AM
ktthecarguy Member
Posts: 2076 From: Livonia, MI USA Registered: Jun 2007
The point was there is no debate. Conservatives as a whole don't condone breaking the law and liberals believe it is ok as long as it is in there best interest. Hell even the constitution doesn't seem to mean anything as most liberals believe it is a living document meant to be changed to meet their views.
I don't buy your postulate. There are plenty of examples of conservatives who DO condone breaking the law, yet I wouldn't tar ALL conservatives with the same brush.
Liberal brings up lame trophy gloating of a Conservative breaking the law and pretty much all the conservatives say if he committed a crime he should get what he deserves. Now as far as I can remember this seems to be the regular reaction from conservatives. Quite expected really.
When the tables are turned and they are more often than not I can't say liberals are anywhere near stand up about the situation. More like whiney ass excuse snout drivel little bitches.
"Lame Trophy Gloating" Pokey, Nothing to see here, It's just a third rate burglary, right.
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05:53 AM
ktthecarguy Member
Posts: 2076 From: Livonia, MI USA Registered: Jun 2007
Originally posted by cliffw: I thought that I had heard that too. To what was not specific. 'Cept now I have heard discussions on what penalties they might face, depending on what they are charged with. So, I don't know that we have a clear confession to a felony crime.
quote
Fox News "This is a very unusual situation and somewhat unsettling for me and my staff," Landrieu said Tuesday night in a written statement. "The individuals responsible have been charged with entering federal property under false pretenses for the purposes of committing a felony. I am as interested as everyone else about their motives and purpose, which I hope will become clear as the investigation moves forward."
The felony unknown. They had no wire tap equipment. No one knows why they were there.
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12:17 PM
blackrams Member
Posts: 33082 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
Where I come from, that's pretty much crossing the line.
No dog in this fight to speak of but that caught me off guard.
Ron
Ron, read this:
quote
Originally posted by Pokeyfiero: So if this is summed up.
Liberal brings up lame trophy gloating of a Conservative breaking the law and pretty much all the conservatives say if he committed a crime he should get what he deserves. Now as far as I can remember this seems to be the regular reaction from conservatives. Quite expected really.
When the tables are turned and they are more often than not I can't say liberals are anywhere near stand up about the situation. More like whiney ass excuse snout drivel little bitches.
So where was your outrage at THIS comment? That's what I was responding to - giving back a taste of what was given.
Where I come from, it's better to read the whole post before sticking your nose in.
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01:19 AM
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Wichita Member
Posts: 20707 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
Actually, I would have loved to hear the bugged conversations. Knowing how corrupt and dirty rotten most Democrat politicians are, it would have made for some great showcasing of how bad Dems are.
But it's a criminal act and they have to pay for their crimes. The sad thing is that they will probably not make it out of prison alive.
Actually, I would have loved to hear the bugged conversations. Knowing how corrupt and dirty rotten most Democrat politicians are, it would have made for some great showcasing of how bad Dems are.
But it's a criminal act and they have to pay for their crimes. The sad thing is that they will probably not make it out of prison alive.
all politicians are corrupt no one party is worse then the other and yes that state is a mess top to bottom
make it out of club fed ???????????????????? they will go to safe camp type site if they get any real time
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03:24 AM
ktthecarguy Member
Posts: 2076 From: Livonia, MI USA Registered: Jun 2007
Wichita and Rayb you are both wrong. Most Dems are not corrupt and dirty rotten, and all politicians are not corrupt. Such blanket statements are too general, and therefore not applicable to individuals. Be more specific about who is corrupt (and research who actually IS corrupt), and you will more likely be right.
RayB is referring to Louisiana mostly, and he is correct. Not only does corruption run rampant there, they openly admit it and even brag about it. I lived there from 1978-1995--thru the Edwin Edwards years. That state has had, and continues to have serious problems regarding bribery, and graft. My youngest son still lives in Baton Rouge and tells me nothing has changed since I was there.
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07:31 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Wichita and Rayb you are both wrong. Most Dems are not corrupt and dirty rotten, and all politicians are not corrupt. Such blanket statements are too general, and therefore not applicable to individuals. Be more specific about who is corrupt (and research who actually IS corrupt), and you will more likely be right.
But in your opinion most Repubs are then?
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08:15 AM
Jan 30th, 2010
pokeyfiero Member
Posts: 16233 From: Free America! Registered: Dec 2003
Originally posted by Wolfhound: The bottom line here is this was political espionage. It was not a prank. That can't be tolerated, when engaged in by either party, period.
I can't agree. There is no evidence that, in this case the GOP, put these guys up to what they were doing, aka Watergate.
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07:12 AM
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cliffw Member
Posts: 37817 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by ktthecarguy: BTW the Constitution IS a living document. It's been amended many times. 27 at last count.
No, it is not. You are not understanding the desired belief of the claim that it is. The claim more so, is to interpret it as we wish at what ever time. An amendment is a completely different thing as they do not reinterpret the Constitution. They actually change it.
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07:18 AM
ktthecarguy Member
Posts: 2076 From: Livonia, MI USA Registered: Jun 2007
No, it is not. You are not understanding the desired belief of the claim that it is. The claim more so, is to interpret it as we wish at what ever time. An amendment is a completely different thing as they do not reinterpret the Constitution. They actually change it.
That is what I mean by a living document - it can be changed. It is not carved into stone tablets, never to be changed again.
I haven't heard of the desired belief you speak of. Where did that come from?
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07:25 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 37817 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by ktthecarguy: I haven't heard of the desired belief you speak of. Where did that come from?
Obama, Woodrow Wilson (maybe I mean Theodore Roosevelt). I'll see if I can find you some contextual quotes. Clearly, Obama being a Constitutional scholar, knows that amendments are possible. His wording suggests that it should be interpretable.
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07:40 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 37817 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by ktthecarguy: I haven't heard of the desired belief you speak of. Where did that come from?
Obama, his autobiography, "The Audacity Of Hope".
quote
And so, when we get in a tussle about abortion or flag burning, we appeal to a higher authority—the Founding Fathers and the Constitution’s ratifiers—to give us more direction. Some, like Justice Scalia, conclude that the original understanding must be followed and that if we strictly obey this rule, then democracy is respected.
Others, like Justice Breyer, don’t dispute that the original meaning of constitutional provisions matters. But they insist that sometimes the original understanding can take you only so far—that on the truly hard cases, the truly big arguments, we have to take context, history, and the practical outcomes of a decision into account. According to this view, the Founding Fathers and original ratifiers have told us how to think but are no longer around to tell us what to think. We are on our own, and have only our own reason and our judgment to rely on.
snip
Ultimately, though, I have to side with Justice Breyer’s view of the Constitution—that it is not a static but rather a living document, and must be read in the context of an ever-changing world.
See, he wants it read differently. Interpreted differently. Not in my America, . Obama is a Progressive. Just as Wilson and Roosevelt were. I'll try to find their supporting beliefs that it is.
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07:51 AM
Wolfhound Member
Posts: 5317 From: Opelika , Alabama, USA Registered: Oct 1999
Where I come from, that's pretty much crossing the line.
No dog in this fight to speak of but that caught me off guard.
Ron
quote
Originally posted by ktthecarguy: Ron, read this:
quote
Originally posted by Pokeyfiero: So if this is summed up.
Liberal brings up lame trophy gloating of a Conservative breaking the law and pretty much all the conservatives say if he committed a crime he should get what he deserves. Now as far as I can remember this seems to be the regular reaction from conservatives. Quite expected really.
When the tables are turned and they are more often than not I can't say liberals are anywhere near stand up about the situation. More like whiney ass excuse snout drivel little bitches.
quote
Originally posted by ktthecarguy: So where was your outrage at THIS comment? That's what I was responding to - giving back a taste of what was given.
Where I come from, it's better to read the whole post before sticking your nose in..
Man, he made fun of you, and you made fun of his mother? That's not giving back a taste of what was given. That's taking it to another lever there bud. Arguing, and yes even name calling happen, I don't agree with all of it, but it happens. The number one rule is to leave family out of it. That rule has probably been in place since Don (maryjane) was a kid. It's that old.
I would recommend making an apology, really. Step back for a bit and relax, before it costs you a membership here, and for what? Regardless of the political views of each member here we all tend to be a family, it wouldn't be the same here if you get booted because of one bad day.
Brad
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08:01 AM
Wolfhound Member
Posts: 5317 From: Opelika , Alabama, USA Registered: Oct 1999
Regarding the Constitution. In the sense that it can be amended it is a living document. However all the amendments have expanded rights, or clarified them rather than taken them away. The exception being prohibition, and it didn't stand. The founding fathers made the Constitution extremely difficult to amend, and the idea Obama or any other president could radically alter it is ridiculous. In that sense it is static.
[This message has been edited by Wolfhound (edited 01-30-2010).]
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08:14 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 37817 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by ktthecarguy: .... it can be changed. It is not carved into stone tablets, never to be changed again.
No, it can't be changed. It is carved into stone. It can only be amended. Even after prohibition was repealed, the prohibition amendment is still there, carved in stone.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 01-30-2010).]
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08:18 AM
ktthecarguy Member
Posts: 2076 From: Livonia, MI USA Registered: Jun 2007
Originally posted by twofatguys: Man, he made fun of you, and you made fun of his mother? That's not giving back a taste of what was given. That's taking it to another lever there bud. Arguing, and yes even name calling happen, I don't agree with all of it, but it happens. The number one rule is to leave family out of it. That rule has probably been in place since Don (maryjane) was a kid. It's that old.
I would recommend making an apology, really. Step back for a bit and relax, before it costs you a membership here, and for what? Regardless of the political views of each member here we all tend to be a family, it wouldn't be the same here if you get booted because of one bad day.
Brad
First off, it's an expression, not an attack on his actual mother. I don't know if his mother is alive or dead even: that wasn't the point. It's an old expression, I think going back to the 30's, from the movies I have seen. He threw a dumb expression out, and I threw a dumb one back in return.
Second, he is not insulting just me, but anyone left of Attila the Hun. He's attempting to make a lot of adversaries, and congrats, he succeeded.
As for an apology, if he wants to start, I will return in kind. There. The door is now open...
Regardless of the laws being violated re illegal wiretapping, some Senators and Congressmen/women are members of committees entrusted with very sensitive National Security information. I do not know if Sen Landreu is on one of them or not, but any information gathered by covert action from a member of congress on one of these oversight panels, has serious national security implications.
Regarding the constitution--if it's to be changed, then do so by legal means via amendments as it was intended to be. Don't skirt the document and throw it into SCOTUS for constitutionality rulings.
Where I come from, that's pretty much crossing the line.
No dog in this fight to speak of but that caught me off guard.
Ron
Ron, read this:
quote
Originally posted by Pokeyfiero:
.
So if this is summed up.
Liberal brings up lame trophy gloating of a Conservative breaking the law and pretty much all the conservatives say if he committed a crime he should get what he deserves. Now as far as I can remember this seems to be the regular reaction from conservatives. Quite expected really.
When the tables are turned and they are more often than not I can't say liberals are anywhere near stand up about the situation. More like whiney ass excuse snout drivel little bitches.
quote
So where was your outrage at THIS comment? That's what I was responding to - giving back a taste of what was given.
Where I come from, it's better to read the whole post before sticking your nose in.
I did read it all. Pokey is here--you are here. His mother is not involved in any way, but you chose to drag her into it as a cheap shot.
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05:33 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27105 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Regarding the Constitution. In the sense that it can be amended it is a living document. However all the amendments have expanded rights, or clarified them rather than taken them away. The exception being prohibition, and it didn't stand. The founding fathers made the Constitution extremely difficult to amend, and the idea Obama or any other president could radically alter it is ridiculous. In that sense it is static.
Let's hope so. I think our country's constitution is pretty amazing.
Here's a quesiton that just popped into mind - has anyone ever read anything that indicated how long the founders thought this country and/or constitution would last? Did they think it would stand forever, or that they only expected it to be around for some lesser period of time?
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06:45 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27105 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Originally posted by ktthecarguy: Second, he is not insulting just me, but anyone left of Attila the Hun.
The left DESERVES it. The more I learn about the left - especially the "progressives", of which Obama, the Clintons and many currently in the Democratic party, the more I learn that they actually want to do away with this country's constitution and turn this country into something completely different. The assumptions that progressivism is based on are fundamentally flawed, such as the notion that man is perfectible through government. Although the counterargument to that may come from the religious perspective that man is flawed and *not* perfectable, you can make a good argument in support of the latter from a non-religious perspective by simply recognizing man's inherent limitations.
The bottom line is, the left is WRONG. What the left wants to do, and is trying to do as we speak, simply won't work. History has proven it already, and the leftists running this country currently are arrogant enough to think that doing the same thing that has failed in the past, won't fail now because *they* are doing it. Such thinking proves the point of inherent fallibility.
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06:54 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Originally posted by fierobear: The more I learn about the left - especially the "progressives", of which Obama, the Clintons and many currently in the Democratic party, the more I learn that they actually want to do away with this country's constitution and turn this country into something completely different.
I choose to believe that the majority of the Democrats do not even realize this. Do not know that they have been used. If I chose to believe otherwise ..... ....
That is too bad. They screwed up bad. Now they are going to pay the price. There is no excuse no matter what your political beliefs for trying to bug someone's phone system.
I have to agree. It may be with good ( misplaced ) intentions to bring out the truth, but it still is a violation of the law and privacy to do it without a warrant.
Gotta play by the rules or you are just a hypocrite and no better then your enemy.
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09:39 PM
Jan 31st, 2010
ktthecarguy Member
Posts: 2076 From: Livonia, MI USA Registered: Jun 2007
I did read it all. Pokey is here--you are here. His mother is not involved in any way, but you chose to drag her into it as a cheap shot.
Ah, so's your old man. (another old expression) You have nothing interesting to say that I want to hear, so p*ss off. (same meaning, different expressions)
[This message has been edited by ktthecarguy (edited 02-01-2010).]
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06:33 AM
ktthecarguy Member
Posts: 2076 From: Livonia, MI USA Registered: Jun 2007
The left DESERVES it. The more I learn about the left - especially the "progressives", of which Obama, the Clintons and many currently in the Democratic party, the more I learn that they actually want to do away with this country's constitution and turn this country into something completely different. The assumptions that progressivism is based on are fundamentally flawed, such as the notion that man is perfectible through government. Although the counterargument to that may come from the religious perspective that man is flawed and *not* perfectable, you can make a good argument in support of the latter from a non-religious perspective by simply recognizing man's inherent limitations.
The bottom line is, the left is WRONG. What the left wants to do, and is trying to do as we speak, simply won't work. History has proven it already, and the leftists running this country currently are arrogant enough to think that doing the same thing that has failed in the past, won't fail now because *they* are doing it. Such thinking proves the point of inherent fallibility.
The bottom line is, that's your opinion. I don't agree.
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06:35 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 37817 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Now that's getting personal.
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....
