I guess you can say I am a blue collar liberal. I don't really affiliate myself with the Democratic Party because I don't support a few things (certain EPA/environmental things that are completely over the top, etc), but I did vote for Obama! I'm a big advocate of unions, as my Dad's Steelworkers union has saved his job 3 times now. I was born and raised in a blue collar Democrat family.... my paternal grandfather worked at the Ford plant here in Lorain, and my maternal grandfather worked at the GM plant in Detroit.
I am in favor of higher taxes for the rich, and lower taxes for the middle and lower classes, as well as a supporter of big government.
I guess you could say I favor certain aspects of Socialism... I'm a firm believer that the government should run certain things in order to keep a strong economy, but not to the point to where everything is a crapshoot. I don't however like the way North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba are ran...that's just flat out communism.
I am a supporter of the separation of church and state, as religion should not be involved in our government's doings in any way.
I am pro-choice, as I firmly believe a woman should be allowed to make her own choice to have an abortion, and no one else should have the right to tell them what to do. I do however have a problem with late abortions.
I believe gun control should be stricter. I honestly don't like how some people have large arsenals of guns and call them collectibles, yet all of them are either loaded, or they have the ammo available for them. I believe people should only be allowed a few guns for hunting, and a few for protection. I am however a supporter of the CCW law. I personally have a fear of guns (since I was kid, it's a long story that has to do with a suicide).
I am a big opponent of certain vehicle emission regulations. I don't believe in the MPG requirements that want to be enforced. They need to worry more about the thousands of jets in the air all at one time causing this crap. I don't want to drive a 95hp 45mpg vehicle! I also believe that cars should have the right to have loud exhausts just like motorcycles can. I am also a opponent of the emissions testing our county has.
I am also what you would call a anti-racist or non-racist, I strongly believe that racism is a horrible and cruel thing. Everyone is the same, regardless of their skin color, height, facial features, religion, etc.
I do support welfare and Medicare/medicaid for people that absolutely NEED it. I will admit when I was younger, we needed welfare. My Dad worked at a good job, but we didn't have enough to get by. My mom couldn't work because she had to watch us, and she didn't have enough to get a babysitter. My Dad eventually fell into a well paying job, and now we live comfortably in a good city in a nice house. If you are able to get in a car and drive and walk, you are able to go to school and make something of yourself. I don't like the idea of non-working people living in Section 8 housing with 6 kids on welfare, and they don't work when they are able to. It's very easy to go to school and become a nurse, or accountant or teacher, etc. Anymore, there is funding that will help you go to school.
I don't like how our trading works, it's far too flawed. We receive all this crap from China, yet we export nearly nothing to them. Same thing with Japanese cars, we have tons of them here, however next to no American cars in Japan.
As for religious views.... I am non-religious, AKA Athiest. Yes, I do not believe in a god. I have been so since I was 16. I never liked being dragged to churches, nor did I think the Bible was true, there are far too many inconsistencies and contradictions. I do however believe that no one should force Athiesm on anyone, same with Christians/Other religions pushing religion on Athiests.
Ok...phew... I'm done....As I said, don't question me, I won't answer.
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05:42 PM
ghost187x Member
Posts: 1026 From: El Paso, TX Registered: Oct 2008
Great post! I would like to ask for some clarification on a couple points, if you don't mind. (yes, I know you said no questions) I'm in no way suggesting you're wrong or trying to change your mind. I just want to understand your position better.
quote
Originally posted by GTFiero87:
I am in favor of higher taxes for the rich, and lower taxes for the middle and lower classes, as well as a supporter of big government.
What do you define as "rich," "middle class," and "lower class?"
quote
Originally posted by GTFiero87: I believe gun control should be stricter. I honestly don't like how some people have large arsenals of guns and call them collectibles, yet all of them are either loaded, or they have the ammo available for them. I believe people should only be allowed a few guns for hunting, and a few for protection. I am however a supporter of the CCW law. I personally have a fear of guns (since I was kid, it's a long story that has to do with a suicide).
Your remark about "large arsenals" suggests you're concerned with the number of guns more than the type. Where would you draw the line on what type and how many firearms a person can legally own?
quote
Originally posted by GTFiero87: Ok...phew... I'm done....As I said, don't question me, I won't answer.
If you don't want to answer, that's cool. Or if you'd rather PM, that's cool too. Thanks.
Please address all responses to Pelican Bay Correctional Center...........................
. o 0 (just don't drop the soap.) LOL
As for the thread, I'm not a liberal, although what they do isnt ALL bad. I mean after all they try (sometimes) to at least (pretend to) be interested in the little man's plight.
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07:07 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
I guess you can say I am a blue collar liberal. I don't really affiliate myself with the Democratic Party because I don't support a few things (certain EPA/environmental things that are completely over the top, etc),
You mean like recycling, not dumping motor oil and old paint in tree stumps, recycling old computer hardware, conservation of water and energy, protecting ecosystems, estuaries, and wetlands so our children and grandchildren can enjoy them? Those are over the top?
quote
Originally posted by GTFiero87:
I am a big opponent of certain vehicle emission regulations. I don't believe in the MPG requirements that want to be enforced. They need to worry more about the thousands of jets in the air all at one time causing this crap. I don't want to drive a 95hp 45mpg vehicle! I also believe that cars should have the right to have loud exhausts just like motorcycles can. I am also a opponent of the emissions testing our county has.
Everyone is a liberal, until it affects them, then suddenly, it's not such a good idea anymore...
quote
Originally posted by ghost187x:
im glad yall posted.
gtfiero87 im glad u said all that. most of that applied 2 me when i was growin up. u shouldnt b questioned.
Shoot, whatever... anyone can question anyone... it's his decision to respond or not, but I will question until my face turns blue.
I guess you can say I am a blue collar liberal. I don't really affiliate myself with the Democratic Party because I don't support a few things (certain EPA/environmental things that are completely over the top, etc),
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: You mean like recycling, not dumping motor oil and old paint in tree stumps, recycling old computer hardware, conservation of water and energy, protecting ecosystems, estuaries, and wetlands so our children and grandchildren can enjoy them? Those are over the top?
You know full well that is not what he means. I don't know why you feel the need to attack, but it's things like what you posted that make some people not willing to share.
We need to join together, not argue and bicker. This guy has posted one view different than mine, but he considers himself a Liberal. I'm curious about that.
Brad
[This message has been edited by twofatguys (edited 12-14-2009).]
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09:43 PM
Dec 15th, 2009
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3152 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
I am pro-choice, as I firmly believe a woman should be allowed to make her own choice to have an abortion, and no one else should have the right to tell them what to do. I do however have a problem with late abortions.
Does anybody else have a problem with this statement, or is it just me??
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08:50 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25398 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
You know full well that is not what he means. I don't know why you feel the need to attack, but it's things like what you posted that make some people not willing to share.
We need to join together, not argue and bicker. This guy has posted one view different than mine, but he considers himself a Liberal. I'm curious about that.
Brad
He'll get over it. I mean no malace.
What do you define yourself as? Our society is good at creating labels for eachother. So one of them probably fits yours.
But it really depends on what you think is most important to you. I know, at least from my perspective, a lot of your views I would consider liberal. I'm not talking about the discussion we've had with regards to public housing, but with unions, etc.
If fiscal conservatism is extremely important to you, then you're probably a conservative.
I am pro-choice, as I firmly believe a woman should be allowed to make her own choice to have an abortion, and no one else should have the right to tell them what to do. I do however have a problem with late abortions.
quote
Originally posted by FrugalFiero:
Does anybody else have a problem with this statement, or is it just me??
It does contradict itself. A woman can choose but only if the child in her womb is reeeeealy young.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-15-2009).]
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08:55 AM
aceman Member
Posts: 4899 From: Brooklyn Center, MN Registered: Feb 2003
It does contradict itself. A woman can choose but only if the child in her womb is reeeeealy young.
It's a a position as to a matter of opinion as to when a fetus turns into a viable lifeform. A fetus less than say 5-6 months is not viable on it's own. Not a living being. A fetus past say 5-6 months can sustain life on it's own. Now it'd be a living being. No contradiction in my viewpoint.
<----------- Socially Moderate Republican.
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09:09 AM
PFF
System Bot
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
It's a a position as to a matter of opinion as to when a fetus turns into a viable lifeform. A fetus less than say 5-6 months is not viable on it's own. Not a living being. A fetus past say 5-6 months can sustain life on it's own. Now it'd be a living being. No contradiction in my viewpoint.
<----------- Socially Moderate Republican.
Yes opinion is always involved. Infants even need to be fed their mothers milk until much later, and then fed because they cannot gather their own food until they are able on their own.
I guess another thought would be, is a living cell a lifeform?
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-15-2009).]
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09:13 AM
aceman Member
Posts: 4899 From: Brooklyn Center, MN Registered: Feb 2003
Yes opinion is always involved. Infants even need to be fed their mothers milk until much later, and then fed because they cannot gather their own food until they are able on their own.
I guess another thought would be, is a living cell a lifeform?
Could be considered a lifeform. Is it a VIABLE LIFEFORM? C'mon, now... So a scientist grows a liver from stem cells. It's a living cell. Are you calling that a lifeform? You can. You just opened the can of worms where VIABLE LIFEFORM enters into the picture.
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09:27 AM
OutsideGroove Member
Posts: 295 From: Colchester, VT Registered: Feb 2004
It's a a position as to a matter of opinion as to when a fetus turns into a viable lifeform. A fetus less than say 5-6 months is not viable on it's own. Not a living being. A fetus past say 5-6 months can sustain life on it's own. Now it'd be a living being. No contradiction in my viewpoint.
<----------- Socially Moderate Republican.
My wife is 23 weeks pregnant. I have seen the baby in ultra sounds. I have seen its organs, its heart beating, its brain. Its bones are there, I could see all its fingers and toes. I can FEEL the baby move inside her. Sure seems like a living being to me.
There are a TON of things I would love to question the poster above on but I had to laugh as it seems as though when one is a liberal they hate to be questioned and hate to defend their beliefs. Why is that? I will proudly defend and explain why I am a conservative who wishes for no high taxes on anyone, who wishes for as little Govt. involvement in my life as possible and has no guns but has no problem if you chose to have a legally assembled arsenal at your disposal.... they could come in handy some day, never know.
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09:28 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
It's a a position as to a matter of opinion as to when a fetus turns into a viable lifeform. A fetus less than say 5-6 months is not viable on it's own. Not a living being. A fetus past say 5-6 months can sustain life on it's own. Now it'd be a living being. No contradiction in my viewpoint.
<----------- Socially Moderate Republican.
You'll find this might change one day when you have your own child. When you see that heart beating after only a month in the ultrasound, it's pretty amazing.
At 5 months, the baby was already kicking. The baby would kick, and my wife would push back, and my daughter would repeate the action.
The baby wouldn't be kicking, and my wife would nudge the baby slightly... just a poke. And the baby would kick back in the same spot. This would go on for 15 minutes...
There's obviously some brain function there.
EDIT: I've known several liberals who have been vehemently pro-choice and for abortion. Then when they want to have a child of their own, and they go through the process, it completely changes. Their opinion usually changes, or they go to a blanket statement like: "I totally don't support it, and would NEVER want an abortion now, but... I still more or less support the right of the woman to choose... you know, as long as it's in the first trimester...."
quote
Originally posted by OutsideGroove:
There are a TON of things I would love to question the poster above on but I had to laugh as it seems as though when one is a liberal they hate to be questioned and hate to defend their beliefs. Why is that? I will proudly defend and explain why I am a conservative who wishes for no high taxes on anyone, who wishes for as little Govt. involvement in my life as possible and has no guns but has no problem if you chose to have a legally assembled arsenal at your disposal.... they could come in handy some day, never know.
It's pretty funny actually... I've always noticed that too...
It seems more and more (over the past few months), Democrats have become increasingly emberassed to call themselves liberals, otherwise they automatically are judged into the same category as an Obama liberal. I can't tell you how many times I've heard... "Well... I'm usually liberal, but not to the extent that Obama is... not a radical..."
I never used to hear this before... but I've heard this almost on a regular basis now... Senator McCarthy would be proud...
Originally posted by OutsideGroove: ... I had to laugh as it seems as though when one is a liberal, they hate to be questioned and hate to defend their beliefs. Why is that?
They will not even make a case for their liberal policies. I have not figured out why someone could become a liberal since none proclaim the virtues of being so. My best guess is it's all the vote buying they do which causes the enslavement to party. Like you, I will discuss my views, defend them, and sell my ideals to others who have none in particular. As you mention, liberals on this forum seem afraid to share their views with those of us which might differ. (Except Neptune He has no shame) Then I realized it was not fear. I offered for my views to be discussed in the forum of their choice, where they would not be a minority. Actually, I called them out. I openly posted that I would volunteer to be the minority. No, it's not fear. Have you noticed that they do not even talk about it among themselves. That's why there is no liberal talk radio. If not fear, what then is it ? Even the Messiah will not speak to those who question him. He will throw them under the bus. I can only conclude that his actions are indefensible.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 12-15-2009).]
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10:27 AM
aceman Member
Posts: 4899 From: Brooklyn Center, MN Registered: Feb 2003
You stick you foot in your mouth a lot. You embarrased yourself yesterday with Wolfhound speaking uninformed. Ummmm, I'm about 10 years older than you with 3 kids.
Thanks for your 2 cents regarding my opinions and viewpoints, but like with dealing with other ultra right-wing nuts here....
I'll leave that 2 cents for someone else to cherish.
[This message has been edited by aceman (edited 12-15-2009).]
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10:41 AM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
As you mention, liberals on this forum seem afraid to share their views with those of us which might differ.
Could it be that not too far into the conversation, the name-calling begins? Some here can be pretty ruthless with those they don't agree with. Maybe some posters feel it just ain't worth it.
I mean, you'd have to be a damn fool to start waving a stick around in a room full of hornets............
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10:43 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by cliffw: They will not even make a case for their liberal policies. I have not figured out why someone could become a liberal since none proclaim the virtues of being so. My best guess is it's all the vote buying they do which causes the enslavement to party. Like you, I will discuss my views, defend them, and sell my ideals to others who have none in particular. As you mention, liberals on this forum seem afraid to share their views with those of us which might differ. (Except Neptune He has no shame) Then I realized it was not fear. I offered for my views to be discussed in the forum of their choice, where they would not be a minority. Actually, I called them out. I openly posted that I would volunteer to be the minority. No, it's not fear. Have you noticed that they do not even talk about it among themselves. That's why there is no liberal talk radio. If not fear, what then is it ? Even the Messiah will not speak to those who question him. He will throw them under the bus. I can only conclude that his actions are indefensible.
much of it is because of the endless ways things can be different. only one way for things to remain the same.
what amazes me is that the current wars are being fought against conservatives to liberalize them. our conservatives are hippies compared to them. they've managed to barely evolve past the days of Christ.
anyways - I would think just about everyone is conservative, with exception of a few particular issues they want changed.
voting, the bible in english, the world is round, the earth revolves around the sun, Jesus H Christ being the Son of God - none of that would exist had conservatives had their ways. stagnation. but - there is ALOT to be said for: if it works, dont fix it. and MOST new ideas actually suck once in practice. there is no correct answer, which means everyone is wrong. all we can do is what we are doing. discuss & vote. and, try to keep $$$ from influencing what is right & proper.
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10:48 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 37817 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by Boondawg: Could it be that not too far into the conversation, the name-calling begins? Some here can be pretty ruthless with those they don't agree with. Maybe some posters feel it just ain't worth it.
Maybe some feel it it ain't worth it ? It's rare that anyone does. They sure posted a lot, the last eight years, bitchen about Bush. Name calling goes both ways. How ruthless can one even be, online ? Who the he11 cares about being called a name by someone you did not like, , ?
I consider myself to be slightly liberal, but mostly moderate. A quick break-down:
Pro-gun: If I had the money, I'd own quite a few guns. Mostly older stuff though, as the history of the people that carried the firearms is more interesting than anything. As of now I've got a Soviet Mosin Nagant and a Yugoslavian Mauser M48a. I'm saving up for a M1 Garand next. Otherwise I've got some .22's to plink with. I think its everyone's right to know how to at least shoot and be able to defend one's home if it ever became necessary. Also, it doesn't hurt to know how to shoot in case one needs to hunt someday to survive.
Pro-conceal carry: Seriously, the "bad guys" don't care and carry weapons illegally so why cant normal citizens carry them legally without so much hassle? Sure, do a background check to make sure the person isn't a psycho but otherwise, meh. If the majority of people carried guns, I'm sure there would be a lot less random muggings, rapes, robberies, etc. if all the criminals were afraid of running into someone that was armed and willing to discharge some lead into their asses.
Pro-choice: yeah yeah, religious and moral issues aside, its not my choice to make for another person. Its not my morals being questioned when another women chooses to abort HER fetus. Not my decision, or anyone else's for that matter and I don't see how laws can cover a strictly moral issue.
Healthcare reform: Hell yeah. It needs to happen, hell... look at pretty much the rest of the world where health care is either super cheap or free. I think in our modern society that people have a right to expect a healty and fulfilling life. However, I know plenty of people that can't afford the medicine they need to do this and to me thats just nonsense considering how great this country is (was?).
Obama: I rarely post in off-topic as it seems like 90% of the threads turn polical, and usually rather nasty. In the last few elections, I haven't really seen a truly good candidate. I'm sure some people would argue that there hasn't been a good president since JFK or even FDR. So... I've been voting for what I see as the lesser evil. I seriously doubt Obama is a "socialist" or evil or stupid or whatever. I do think that he is too young and inexperienced for the job... but on the other hand I think McCain was too old and the though of him keeling over and having Palin pick up is just as disheartening. Sure, she is an... interesting character, but I just don't see how she would be any better. Meh.
Immigration: Need I remind all the american members here that we were ALL once immigrants? Well, with the exception of the native americans of course, they've been here long enough to call it theirs. I do not think its right that so many Mexicans have moved in illegally and then take advantage of our system but I have absolutly zero problem when they have an honest job, take care of their kids, man up to their mistakes (hit and run by uninsured drivers...grrr), and make a good attempt to learn English. Thats better than quite a few legit citizens I've ran into...
Anyway, I guess what I'm getting at is that this forum tends to be very conservative and has a nasty habit of attacking anyone that doesn't agree with their opinions... and in that respect off topic isn't all that friendly a place to hang out if you dont' agree with the general consensus.
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10:56 AM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
Maybe some feel it it ain't worth it ? It's rare that anyone does. They sure posted a lot, the last eight years, bitchen about Bush. Name calling goes both ways. How ruthless can one even be, online ? Who the he11 cares about being called a name by someone you did not like, , ?
Well, there you go then. Problem solved.
And a man can choose not to answer whoever he don't want to. Becouse, as you said, who the hell cares?
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 12-15-2009).]
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10:59 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 37817 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
You stick you foot in your mouth a lot. You embarrased yourself yesterday with Wolfhound speaking uninformed. Ummmm, I'm about 10 years older than you with 3 kids.
Thanks for your 2 cents regarding my opinions and viewpoints, but like with dealing with other ultra right-wing nuts here....
I'll leave that 2 cents for someone else to cherish.
This is hardly a "competition" for me. So if you disagree with my views, it's not like I lost a "fight".
Are you suggesting that I "stuck my foot in my mouth" because you portrayed to me someone who probably doesn't have any kids?
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: EDIT: I've known several liberals who have been vehemently pro-choice and for abortion. Then when they want to have a child of their own, and they go through the process, it completely changes. Their opinion usually changes, or they go to a blanket statement like: "I totally don't support it, and would NEVER want an abortion now, but... I still more or less support the right of the woman to choose... you know, as long as it's in the first trimester...."
I have a child (well - young adult now) - and I am 100% for choice/abortion. I see no benifit to forcing a woman to give birth & raise a child - adoption is a non-solution - does not stand up to the volume required yes - it would be wonderful if we could just get girls to stop humping losers - but - not gonna happen. it is a reality that needs dealing with. after the fact scolding does no good.
betcha the Muslims got a working solution to this.
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11:22 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25398 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Gawd, you are acting like Turdster more and more everyday! And that is not a compliment.
I assumed, because you ACTED like you do not have any kids. (Maybe I shouldn't assume you're talking about human children, maybe you're trying to trick me by saying you have kids when really you have goat babies).
I have no idea who Turdster is, but I can only assume you're in the minority here since your negative bar overwhelmingly consumes your karma. Who's acting like a turd?
You don't have to like my views, but you will eventually have to accept the fact that you're not going to change them. The sooner you accept that fact, the better off you'll be and you won't get so stressed out.
quote
Originally posted by Pyrthian:
it would be wonderful if we could just get girls to stop humping losers - but - not gonna happen. it is a reality that needs dealing with. after the fact scolding does no good.
betcha the Muslims got a working solution to this.
Hahah... man... that's not funny, I shouldn't be laughing.
Many Islamic countries still practice genital castration for women which basically eliminates any "desire" for them to have sex anyway...
LOL
, ?
