http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=88851

"Monetizing the debt" is a term used to signify that the Federal Reserve will be required simply to print cash to meet the Treasury debt obligations, acting in this capacity only because the Treasury cannot sell the huge of amount debt elsewhere.

[This message has been edited by texasfiero (edited 02-14-2009).]

And the avalanche begins to move . . . . . . . . . .

Wow. Can anyone say "Weimar Republic". Everyone got a wheelbarrow?

**** the left.

Could be worse. I hear inflation in Argentina reached 5000% in 1989. I'm sure we won't get THAT high.

...sorta sure.

Well, let's take a look at where your money, you kids money, your grandkids' money, and your great grandkids money will be going...

A short list of stuff

$2 billion earmark for FutureGen near zero emissions powerplant in Mattoon, IL
$39 billion slush fund for "state fiscal stabilization" bailout
$5.5 billion for making federal buildings "green" (including $448 million for DHS HQ)
$200 million for workplace safety in USDA facilities
$275 million for flood prevention
$65 million for watershed rehabilitation
$200 million for public computer centers at community colleges and libraries
$650 million for the DTV transition coupon program
$307 million for constructing NIST office buildings
$1 billion for administrative costs and construction of NOAA office buildings
$100 million for constructing U.S. Marshalls office buildings
$300 million for constructing FBI office buildings
$800 million for constructing Federal Prison System buildings and facilities
$10 million to fight Mexican gunrunners
$1.3 billion for NASA (including $450 million for "science" at NASA)
$100 million to clean up sites used in early U.S. atomic energy program
$10 million for urban canals
$2 billion for manufacturing advanced batteries for hybrid cars
$1.5 billion for carbon capture projects under sec. 703 of P.L. 110-140 (though section only authorizes $1 billion for five years)
$300 million for hybrid and electric cars for federal employees
$198 million to design and furnish the DHS headquarters
$255 million for "priority procurements" at Coast Guard (polar ice breaker)
$500 million for State and local fire stations
$180 million for construction of Bureau of Land Management facilities
$500 million for wildland fire management
$110 million for construction for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
$522 million for construction for the Bureau of Indian Affairs
$650 million for abandoned mine sites
$75 million for the Smithsonian Institution
$1.2 billion for summer jobs for youth
$412 million for CDC headquarters
$500 million earmark for NIH facilities in Bethesda, MD
$160 million for "volunteers" at the Corp. for National and Community Service
$750 earmark for the National Computer Center in MD
$224 million for International Boundary and Water Commission - U.S. and Mexico
$850 million for Amtrak
$100 million for lead paint hazard reduction

A comprehensive list

=================================

Hellooooo? Long term, non-governmental, non-subsidized jobs...are you IN THERE?!?

What the heck is an "urban canal" and why do "volunteers" need $160 million?

The national debt is relative to the money supply because of the way our federal reserve system works with the fractional banking system.
What they are doing with the bill is not out of the ordinary at all. The problems we are facing now are because of bad business practice intertwined with mass globalization. The deficits we see and debts we see are just numbers and money is always printed based on demand. We basically make money out of other people's debt whether it be loans for school, cars, mortgages, and etc. I learned all this in my Macroeconomics class last semester which cleared up a lot of questions I had. I like to think of National debt as money supply and decifits meaning we buy more imports then we export. Globalization, bad credit regulation, and these 2 stupid wars I think are whats destroying our economy right now.

I can go on for days about Iraq because I spent a year on holiday there..

The Indians are getting a lot of money for all kinds of stuff as is the government.

There sure isn't much in there for small business. The people who employ around 70% of Americans.

This bill is laden with pork and the congress voted on it wit out even reading it.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: What the heck is an "urban canal" and why do "volunteers" need $160 million?

Exactly.

The consolation I am getting is that this is going to cause hyperinflation in China, forcing their government to de-regulate the Yuan and learn to play in the world economy like the rest of us. I hate to suggest this, but if our country 'only' put one trillion into our banking and industry ( a Keynesian 'injection') while other, smaller countries with a much lower GDP are investing trillions of dollars I suspect we Americans will be emerging from this faster than the rest of the world. i would almost hazard the suggestion that there are powers at work guiding this whole situation to the advantage of an un-apparent entity.
I heard some economist with a professors' title whom teaches at some prestigious school somewhere suggest that the whole mess would rectify itself if the governments do nothing.
I'm one of those people that think - like global warming - that doing nothing and continuing as we are only aggravates a problem that has become an influence on our existence.
...whether it goes away on its own - how fast and how painfully - depends on how we contribute.

quote Originally posted by USFiero: The consolation I am getting is that this is going to cause hyperinflation in China, forcing their government to de-regulate the Yuan and learn to play in the world economy like the rest of us. I hate to suggest this, but if our country 'only' put one trillion into our banking and industry ( a Keynesian 'injection') while other, smaller countries with a much lower GDP are investing trillions of dollars I suspect we Americans will be emerging from this faster than the rest of the world. i would almost hazard the suggestion that there are powers at work guiding this whole situation to the advantage of an un-apparent entity. I heard some economist with a professors' title whom teaches at some prestigious school somewhere suggest that the whole mess would rectify itself if the governments do nothing. I'm one of those people that think - like global warming - that doing nothing and continuing as we are only aggravates a problem that has become an influence on our existence. ...whether it goes away on its own - how fast and how painfully - depends on how we contribute.

I don't get your global warming link. Doing nothing for something that isn't happening isn't the same not doing something that will only make a bad thing worse.

[This message has been edited by Phranc (edited 02-15-2009).]

I am looking forward to my $13 a week increase.
And who is making all the money on the DTV converters {what State and Congressman was behind that.....and what the heck was wrong with the old signal?
My God..............I remember when you had to get out of a chair to switch the channel and adjust the rabbit ears.
LOL..when I lived with my Dad in Chicago when I got out of the Navy he accused me of not going to work becaause the TV channel was switched from where he had last watched it.
Come to find out he had a dog that had a squeaky toy that had the same channel frequency as his "new" Zenith remote.,,,,,,,,so when the dog bit the toy the channel would cycle

Global warming is the biggest scam ever. the science is junk, and has been refuted by thousands of creditable scientist including MIT. Anyone who does their homework can find the facts behind this issue. Remember the the 1974 articles about the Global Cooling scare? same exact rhetoric! Now the left is driving our economy in the ground with pet project bullshi*. Don't even get me started on the wars, They are necessary unless you want more 9/11 incidents to take place. My degree major is Counter terrorism, and I work in the LE field. National security and these wars are a priority. 5.2 million for honey bee research, billions on GW research, and all the other pork non-related crap rolled into this bill the public or the senate was not able to read before voting is peer corrupt left wing BS.

[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 02-15-2009).]

Discussion is over.


**** congress.

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: Global warming is the biggest scam ever. the science is junk, and has been refuted by thousands of creditable scientist including MIT. Anyone who does their homework can find the facts behind this issue. Remember the the 1974 articles about the Global Cooling scare? same exact rhetoric!

Sounds like you would enjoy my global warming thread.

quote Originally posted by USFiero: The consolation I am getting is that this is going to cause hyperinflation in China, forcing their government to de-regulate the Yuan and learn to play in the world economy like the rest of us. I hate to suggest this, but if our country 'only' put one trillion into our banking and industry ( a Keynesian 'injection') while other, smaller countries with a much lower GDP are investing trillions of dollars I suspect we Americans will be emerging from this faster than the rest of the world. i would almost hazard the suggestion that there are powers at work guiding this whole situation to the advantage of an un-apparent entity. I heard some economist with a professors' title whom teaches at some prestigious school somewhere suggest that the whole mess would rectify itself if the governments do nothing. I'm one of those people that think - like global warming - that doing nothing and continuing as we are only aggravates a problem that has become an influence on our existence. ...whether it goes away on its own - how fast and how painfully - depends on how we contribute.

Hyper-inflation causing the de-regulation of the Yaun ? Can someone explain currency regulation to me (again) ? If we are just printing more dollars (which ?will? cause some inflation) are we de-regulating our dollar ? Re-regulating it ?
If we put only a trillion into our banking and industry and others with less GDP are investing trillions, causing, hyper-inflation in China, ..... ?
First off, this trillion dollar 1000 page bill has no provisions for shoring up the banking industry that I am aware of. That corporate welfare is in another bill which was right near a trillion dollars. Secondly, I have not seen (well, no one has had time to read or analyze ...) any monies dedicated to industry, save for the promise to develop GREEN, . ( I am good with GREEN except for the Global Warming/Climate Change/ SCAMGATE Green). Thirdly, I also see no mention that other countries are investing in their banking and industry either.
Whatever. So, your thoughts are that we will come out of it faster than other countries. Makes sense. I submit that we would have to emerge even faster if we did not have to invest any dollars, using your logic. I do not have a professor's title and you do not say of your educational experience. You do say that you disagree with the economist.
Doing nothing and continuing as we are, , ? Would you explain what you mean ? I am thinking that we are doing something and continuing as we are. Spending money that we did not have on things that we did not need got us into this mess. Now we should support our government to do the same thing ? Much of this bill is a spending frenzy. Much of this money will not be spent for a year and some even later. This money that has been shoved through is a PORK slush bank account for the DUMBS which they can use later without public discretion. We are being baffled by . We can not be dazzled by brilliance, as they have no plan, no specifics. Heck, they are telling us that they don't even know if it will work. VP Biden even says that if we do everything right we still have a 30% chance of failure, .
To do something, different, which is and was opined by the experts to get credit flowing again, we need to get the bad assets off the books of the banks. That was supposed to be the original plan. A problem arose when an agreed value upon those assets could not be reached. Here comes TARP II and that problem still is not solved, . Perhaps if that problem was solved, we would not need a $TRILLION$ dollar PORK bill.

quote Originally posted by USFiero: I would almost hazard the suggestion that there are powers at work guiding this whole situation to the advantage of an un-apparent entity.

Here, I agree with you 51%. Only 51 because the entity is apparent to me. It is the Dumbocratic party.

quote Originally posted by texasfiero: "Monetizing the debt"......

Dang the bad luck. If only we could have known that printing money would need to be required to pass this $TRILLION$ dollar spending bill, . Heck, let's print some more. Give each person his own printing press, . I am not a told you so person and I never did tell you that this would happen. I am a high school drop out. Even I could see this coming.

quote cliffw-9/30/08 9/30/08 ... When banks fail, are they gonna print new dollars to reimburse us? ............................................................................................................................................................................................ 10/6/08 ... I just heard that the Federal Reserve has doubled the size of loans available. Where did this money come from ? ............................................................................................................................................................................................. I have raised the question many times of if we will print money.

, will our thirteen dollars a week individual tax stimulus be adjusted for inflation ?

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 02-15-2009).]

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Discussion is over. **** congress.

Iam going to have to agree with that. Enough said.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: Please go about these two stupid wars and exactly how they are ruining the economy. I keep hearing this yet not a single person has been able to actually articulate it. Maybe you can connect how a war in Afghanistan directly affected the artificial over valuing of homes causing a price and credit bubble in the housing market sector. Or maybe you tell me exactly how the war in Iraq is directly responsible for the rise in oil prices and gas prices world wide creating yet another bubble and price inflation of everything. And then maybe you can explain how exactly it was these two wars are the cause of a credit living life style that stared decades before the wars even started.

Well it is clear because they were started by evil stupid people who only went there for oil. Which is why we have so much now. Right?

Cool, the government does it so it must be legal

Im going to start printing my own bailout money too, SS isnt enough to maintain my lifestyle.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Im going to start printing my own bailout money too, SS isnt enough to maintain my lifestyle.

Are you gonna put the Hooter girls pictures on it ?
Who will be on the Hundred, ?

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 02-15-2009).]

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Well, let's take a look at where your money, you kids money, your grandkids' money, and your great grandkids money will be going... A short list of stuff

Yeah, it's a shame we could not have spent this money in another country. I believe most of the tax cuts in the bill are going to the people which is also a damn shame.

quote Originally posted by Psychosis39: The national debt is relative to the money supply because of the way our federal reserve system works with the fractional banking system. What they are doing with the bill is not out of the ordinary at all. The problems we are facing now are because of bad business practice intertwined with mass globalization. The deficits we see and debts we see are just numbers and money is always printed based on demand. We basically make money out of other people's debt whether it be loans for school, cars, mortgages, and etc. I learned all this in my Macroeconomics class last semester which cleared up a lot of questions I had. I like to think of National debt as money supply and decifits meaning we buy more imports then we export. Globalization, bad credit regulation, and these 2 stupid wars I think are whats destroying our economy right now. I can go on for days about Iraq because I spent a year on holiday there..

Wow. I see that the University theorists are still working hard and showing that they know absolutely nothing about how a country really creates wealth.
The problems we face now were by in large a creation of our government with their hammering the lending institutions with unreasonable /unsound lending requirements. Also by the business leaders that were/are unwilling to stand up to the crooked/ inept politicians by telling them where to shove their nefarious "laws".

They say the deficits are just numbers!!!! Wait 'til I tell my mortgage lender that..
.
My goodness, how can such ignorance continue unchecked? If our country is to survive then we need to take our government (and universitys ) back from the professional politicians and their inept lackeys, restore BALANCED teaching at all levels of education, and restore the Constitution as the foundation.

[This message has been edited by 2farnorth (edited 02-15-2009).]

These gangsters in D.C. have no constitutional authority to loot the federal treasury. They are criminals and traitors, either because of corruption or ineptitude or both.

Governments NEVER divest. Ever. Unless we revolt at the ballot box (and I doubt if that will happen) this is the beginning of the end for our country. I am not exaggerating. I do not say that to gloat...I love my country and I feel like a grieving period is setting in.

But, I think most of the people, in the end, will board the cattle cars exclaiming, "Such a deal!"

quote Originally posted by Tigger: Yeah, it's a shame we could not have spent this money in another country. I believe most of the tax cuts in the bill are going to the people which is also a damn shame.

Yup! Good thing Obama and the Democrats are here to save the day with their MASSIVE tax cut bill! So tell us, Tigger, whatcha gonna do with your whole THIRTEEN (13) DOLLARS?

=====================================

Millions of workers would soon see an extra $13 in their weekly paychecks and thousands of small businesses operating in the red could get tax refunds under the economic recovery bill nearing completion in Congress. Businesses won't fare as well as they did in earlier versions of the legislation. But most of the tax cuts for families and individuals were preserved, though some were reduced.

There are tax breaks for low-income families with children; college students; first-time homebuyers; people who buy new automobiles; and those collecting unemployment benefits.

The Obama administration says 95 percent of taxpayers will get relief.

"There are provisions that could pay you now and some that could pay you later," said Amy McAnarney, executive director of the Tax Institute at H&R Block. "They're going to give you money to spend, and then they're going to give you incentives to spend it."

In all, the $789 billion plan includes about $280 billion in tax cuts. Congress is expected to send the package to President Barack Obama as early as Friday.

Obama's signature "Making Work Pay" credit would provide up to $400 for individuals and $800 for couples in 2009 and 2010. Most workers would see about a $13 a week increase in their take-home pay, starting around June.

The credit is phased out for individuals making more than $75,000 and couples making more than $150,000. Millions of low-income workers who don't make enough money to pay income taxes would get checks from the government when they file their 2009 tax returns.

====================================

WOOHOOO! $13! I'm SAVED!

[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 02-15-2009).]

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Discussion is over. **** congress.

Are you going to start wearing a beret Andrew?

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Are you going to start wearing a beret Andrew?

No.
The beret is and has been a symbol of elite fighting groups since the French first started using them in the late 1800s.
While in it's inception the rugged fighting mountain men of france were true hero's this is not the case now. France has sadly slid down the socialist slope. They have my respect as a nation of freedom for their past efforts especially for their major contribution to our own fight for freedom against tyrany. They no longer warrant such respect.

If there is war to come pitting honest patriots against a system overrun with corruption and blind utopion followers bent on the idea that they know what is best for you and the ends of freedom justifies the means to to take care of a populace regardless of their wishes I believe the patriots must not show who they are and must hide. They must hide who they are in their own country!

We will have a need for secrecy and be forced to commit to our ideals as criminals of the state and be regarded as terrorists.
More appropriate to our circumstance we will wear a black ski mask and skulk about on mission to free this nation or destroy it so that the constitution can be used to build it anew as is provided by law and by our duty written in the constitution.

We have the laws of the constitution backing us and nothing else except our love of this country.
They have stacks of laws and rules created by kangaroo legislation propping them.

There is no coming back from the economic peril we have now found ourselves in. Where there was little hope before I believe there is no hope now and that may be a catalyst for people to finally make a decision as to what they feel is important to them.
The story has been told a thousand times before but it seems we are to dumb to pick up a book and read history.

------------------
Though I am branded a devil in priests clothing I cast not the raiment I wear for I am not beholden to any flock with which any color has been given to me.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: ....I believe the patriots must not show who they are and must hide. They must hide who they are in their own country! We will have a need for secrecy and be forced to commit to our ideals as criminals of the state and be regarded as terrorists. More appropriate to our circumstance we will wear a black ski mask and skulk about on mission to free this nation or destroy it so that the constitution can be used to build it anew as is provided by law and by our duty written in the constitution. We have the laws of the constitution backing us and nothing else except our love of this country. They have stacks of laws and rules created by kangaroo legislation propping them. There is no coming back from the economic peril we have now found ourselves in. Where there was little hope before I believe there is no hope now and that may be a catalyst for people to finally make a decision as to what they feel is important to them. The story has been told a thousand times before but it seems we are to dumb to pick up a book and read history.

Reporting for duty General Pokey !
Actually, I disagree. A hero does not hide. A hero runs hell bent into leather, or what ever else. A hero stands along side other heroes.
Which is the first step. We need not fire a shot. We may never have to.
What we need to do is organize. Establish a voice. Gain support. Solicit allegiance. Who will align themselves with a masked man ?
There is a science to revolt. Martin Luther King understood that. He allowed the enemy to defeat itself. It will take time. A scholar of revolt is needed.
We still live in America. We still have rights. We have the right to assemble and can gather, we can protest. We still have free speech. These are our weapons which we do not have to hide from. We have others. One used to be free press. Now free press is mostly a personal (press owner) agenda. We need communication. We stand to lose most of our weapons if we become terrorists (of the state).

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: No. The beret is and has been a symbol of elite fighting groups since the French first started using them in the late 1800s.

If you say so.




I'll follow wherever she leads:

quote Originally posted by Psychosis39: I learned all this in my Macroeconomics class last semester which cleared up a lot of questions I had. I like to think of National debt as money supply and decifits meaning we buy more imports then we export.

I like to think of National Debt as chocolate ice cream and deficits as the sprinkles on top, but that doesn't make it so.

I'm glad a semester of macroeconomics has taught you all you need to know to understand the economy. All of the economics in the world are trying to figure out how to turn the economy around. If only one of them would take a semester of macroeconomics they'd understand it's all so easy.


"A young boy went up to his father and asked, "What is the
difference between theory and reality?"

The father thought for a moment, then answered, "Go ask your
mother if she would sleep with Robert Redford for a million dollars.

Then ask you sister if she would sleep with Brad Pitt for a
million dollars. Come back and tell me what you learn from that."

So the boy went to his mother and asked, "Would you sleep with
Robert Redford for a million dollars?" The mother replied, "Of course
I would! I wouldn't pass up an opportunity like that."

The boy then went to his sister and asked, "Would you sleep with
Brad Pitt for a million dollars?" The girl replied, "Oh my God! I
would just love to do that! I would be nuts to pass up that
opportunity!"

The boy pondered that for a few days, then went back to his dad.

His father asked him, "Did you find out the difference between
theory and reality?"

The boy replied, "Yes, sir. In theory, we're sitting on two
million dollars but in reality, we're living with two sluts."

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Reporting for duty General Pokey ! Actually, I disagree. A hero does not hide. A hero runs hell bent into leather, or what ever else. A hero stands along side other heroes. Which is the first step. We need not fire a shot. We may never have to. What we need to do is organize. Establish a voice. Gain support. Solicit allegiance. Who will align themselves with a masked man ? There is a science to revolt. Martin Luther King understood that. He allowed the enemy to defeat itself. It will take time. A scholar of revolt is needed. We still live in America. We still have rights. We have the right to assemble and can gather, we can protest. We still have free speech. These are our weapons which we do not have to hide from. We have others. One used to be free press. Now free press is mostly a personal (press owner) agenda. We need communication. We stand to lose most of our weapons if we become terrorists (of the state).

It isn't so much that I disagree with you but rather I see it as farther along the path than you do.

The very things you still consider to be rights are what will be used to round us up to be dealt with.

I agree--even to the point of 'them' monitoring posts such as these. The day will come, when even the internet is closely watched and ISPs recorded by those who wish to control every aspect of our lives.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: If you say so.

I had to look it up but it was in 1880 the french mountain fighting force first used a beret.

quote The military beret originated in the French Army, in the form of the wide and floppy headdress worn by the Chasseurs alpins (mountain light infantry) from their foundation in the early 1880s. A tight-fitting version was subsequently adopted by French armoured troops towards the end of World War I. Between the wars, special fortress units raised to garrison the Maginot Line wore khaki berets as did the 13th DBLE of the French Foreign Legion when it was created in 1940. The beret in red, blue or green was a distinction of the Metropolitan, Colonial and Foreign Legion paratroop regiments during the Indochina and Algerian wars. After 1962 the beret in either khaki or the colours specified above became the standard French Army headdress for ordinary use. With the exception of the Naval Commandos whose beret emulates the British Commando beret and is worn pulled to the right with the badge worn over the left ear and the Naval Fusiliers commandos also part of the French Navy, all other French berets (Army, airforce and gendarmerie GIGN) are pulled to the left with the badge worn on the right side over the eye or the temple.

[This message has been edited by pokeyfiero (edited 02-15-2009).]

I have no doubt your information was correct regarding who first wore the thing--the term "elite fighting groups" being associated with the French beret is troublesome tho.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: The very things you still consider to be rights are what will be used to round us up to be dealt with.

Yes, yes. Some of us will have to be rounded up. So others will realize that it will happen to them. What we need to be keen of is that we abide by our given rights. It is our best weapon. We twist our rights around their throats.
Sacrifices will need to be made. BIG GUV just lets us have enough to be happy. Content. Just like any drug dealer, our first fix was free. Now GUV is cutting back on the quality. Weening us of so to speak. Getting us used to less and less. With the threat of losing everything if we run afoul of the law (of which they make a new one every day).
It's gonna take time. It is not gonna be pretty. It is gonna happen. Sooner than later. I think the fuse is burning. The cause has been given to us because it is being taken from us.
The big picture needs to be seen. It is not Democrat/Republican. It is BIG GUBMENT. The talk of gun prohibitions. Freedom of the press ? Who owns the press? Not the people anymore. The first amendment being nixed by the fairness doctrine ? Even I am asleep. I do not see the whole picture. I see it coming into focus though. Something bigger is going on, little by little. Which is why we do not notice it.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I agree--even to the point of 'them' monitoring posts such as these. The day will come, when even the internet is closely watched and ISPs recorded by those who wish to control every aspect of our lives.

Yes, I see that too. It would have to be for BIG GUBs very survival. So there goes unreasonable search and seizure. They have already gotten laws in place (with public approval) to eaves drop on private communications of Americans to prevent terrorism. Next is the re-definition of applicable terrorism.
Kinda ironic, ... that we might need to learn how to hide our communications to each other. Learning from Al KIDA.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Some of us will have to be rounded up. So others will realize that it will happen to them. What we need to be keen of is that we abide by our given rights. It is our best weapon. We twist our rights around their throats. Sacrifices will need to be made. Kinda ironic, ... that we might need to learn how to hide our communications to each other. Learning from Al KIDA.

Are we talking martyrdom here?

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Are we talking martyrdom here?

Will we get virgins?