kids shooting each other on a regular basis, eh?

anyways, I cant make anyone beleive it, and it is a very tough to remove the rose colored history glasses, but kids shot each other as long as there have been guns. I dont know why you think puberty is something new. Or why you think your particular generation was so sweet & loveable, as was the ones of your parents. remember when kids used to kill negro kids for sport? yeah, that was special, wasn't it? but, being negros were not quite human yet, it was OK. but, I suppose it kept the kids from killing/beating/abusing a real human. and, being it was just fine with parents, police & the school they was just fine. and, being noone talked about things like rape - that never happened either. dont mix up the "hush hush" with "it never happened". we are just 1 generation away from wife beating being acceptable. people have always been humans. there has always been puberty. kids have also always been kids. when you were a kid, your world was 2 maybe 3 blocks. you didnt pay attention to the news. and, depending on age - there probably wasnt worldwide news feeds. who has actually seen a kid shoot anyone? while I am sure some actually have - I'd expect most have not. that is a long long way from "shooting each other on a regular basis".....

"them damn kids today" - its a cry that goes back to before civilization - in fact - I would expect - its been said by the first generation who spoke words. if this was actually true, why didnt the sparkling generation of those before do something about it? they seemed to know it all, at least when it came to behaving & punishment. why didnt they fix it? because it really does not exist. it is the eyes of the beholder. it is "other peoples kids". and, even more so - this also seems to come mostly from people without kids. because they are not exposed to actual examples of the current generation. they only see the ones who make the noise. "the squeeky wheel" thing.

No doubt, kids have been kids through out time but, from my perspective, there has been a degradation of society with lawlessness, loss of respect for authority and a complete break down of some of the sub-cultures of our society. Am I only aware of it because of improved technology, possibly but, that still doesn't make it right. I guess "right" depends on who you're asking though. Kids only learn what is acceptable from their parents, teachers and peer groups with parents being the main stay, apparently, some parents don't give a damn any longer.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-13-2009).]

I remember when you got in trouble at school, your parents sided with the school or teacher, not with you. Get swats at school and then get it again when you got home. My mom would spank first and ask questions later. I deserved 99.9% of the corrections my parents gave me. Now the child is right and the adults are wrong. Oh poor little Johnny, lets dont hurt his feelings. I see this mentallity in kids sports, nobody loses everybody wins, well life isn't like that. We are raising a nation of wimps.

[This message has been edited by BENGAL4 (edited 01-13-2009).]

so, is it our lack of roman orgies that makes ya say that?
but, I see what is being said. and, yes, I get that feeling too.
but, c'mon - didnt god once flood the earth because he was so disgusted with the behaviour of man? can we really be that bad?
of course, with the population we have, the instant media we have - you WILL see over the top flaked out people.
maybe we should get back to enslaving people. seems the more slaves society had, the better behaved they were?

I got paddled in first grade at school...and I think it should be adopted by all elementary schools in the nation. instill the fear early and it stays with them. I know it did for me, even after moving from private school to public.

All I ever remember from school was fist fights. I never seen or heard of anyone using weapons of any kind. First I remember was like in the 70s when people started beating and stabing other kids for their jackets or shoes.

quote Originally posted by Cooter: And while you are doing what you damn well please, the rest of the class is able to learn what? I never realized that I was a sub-human control freak for wanting an orderly, respectful classroom environment. Since discipline has been taken out of the teachers' hands, the 'system' has gotten worse, not better. The way it used to be worked pretty good- we had kids who respected their teachers and were able to learn in a safe environment. The year that I had a paddle and a principal that insisted I use it, I got it out of the closet 3 times during the whole year. The first one was for a boy who stood up in class and yelled "I hate you! I wish you were dead!" I talked to his dad that night and was told to bust his ass if he said anything like that again. The next day, he did, so I got out the paddle and fired him up. For the rest of the year, I did not have any more problems with him. He got mad at me, but never disrupted class like that again. I'd say it was pretty effective and when the other kids saw that I would use it, I had less problems with them.

There is a difference between "the classroom" and "the walk home", Cooter.

No disrespect intended to your philisohpy of control, but I support my own.

True story from grade 7. (circa 1976/77/78 or thereabouts. I dont feel like counting back that far )

It was about 9-10 blocks home from school. About 3 blocks from home was this guy who parked a pickup and sold candy apples and candy sticks.

"School" decided we weren't "allowed" to buy them on the way home, and I flat out told the teachers/principals that (paraphrase) "your power ends where that property line begins, and once I'm on the street I'm in charge"

That guy was the beginning of a whole lot of strapping's in school, and a whole lot of fights later in life with employers (which I tend to win thanks to a working knowledge of labor standards law).

To me, at least....there is a VERY definite line between who is in charge. Shcool/university/job site, they get to make the rules or the guy can leave.

One inch or one second outside of that well-defined are, and they get no say at all in the matter.

Same goes for property rights around me.

What can I say, man.....my world is black and white, and I've never had much tolerance for gray.

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 01-13-2009).]

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: There is a difference between "the classroom" and "the walk home", Cooter.

I thought we were talking about school. My bad.

Its all cool, thread drift and its not like we can see each other faces for expressions like a good bar fight <jking>

just throwing this out here, im in school right now and the most i act up is a comment here and there, but my parents take an active interest in what i do. i learned quick that even tho the school punishments werent bad, id get more when i got home. i know kids who will start fights bcuz the rents dont care and they get 3 days off school minimum. i also know a teacher who will bawl u out like nothing else if u screw around, and iv noticed less kids act up in that class, and its wood shop, which normally attracts the screwups. this teacher also doesnt do anything about a fight until the first solid hit is landed. at which point ur both suspended. corporal punishment wasnt a bad thing, just look at my generation and ull hav ur proof. problem is ppl get sued for doing it now, and iv even heard of a few cases where the kid sued his/her parents for just grounding them, and WON. thats screwed up.

Nohbdy..........Do you know of the school I was talking about?
It was a alternative public school In Grand Rapids.
Also haven't seen you on here before. Please e-mail me where you are located in G.R. Thanks......Cliff