Howdy gang,
I have located a transmission for my Saturn and will be sell it ASAP. So i am looking for another car. I want to find something in either an older Volvo or another business class car. I hear the Volvos can be good for a million miles and are good road trip cars. How are they for the long haul? Can I expect to have to spend a lot on upkeep on one? What are some of the things I should look for when I am trying to find one to buy? Where do they typically rust out?

I am trying to find one for around 3-4k so it will certainly NOT be a new one. I found a couple really nice LOOKING ones with 300k on the odometer.
Thanks
Randy

Older Volvos are bulletproof. Very low maintenance, not expensive to repair when something does go bad.
The 200, 700 and 900 series cars are the ones to look at. Avoid the FWD cars, they are not the same; not as reliable, etc.

In the 2, 7, 9 series cars:
The B230 and B230FT engines are bulletproof, they will last hundreds of thousands of miles with no rebuild. I've got a '91 Volvo with a stock turbo B230FT with >250K miles and no problems. I just sold another very similar car with 206K miles.

The automatic transmissions (AW71) are equally as reliable, they will last hundreds of thousands of miles.

Things to watch for, the '80s cars suffer from poor wiring, get a '90 or later. But, if the wiring isn't acting up by now, it likely won't or has already been replaced. As well, the B230/FT engines had smaller connecting rods until around '90. They don't bend/break stock very often, so its not much of a worry for a daily driver, but I go for the big rod engines when I can. Other than that, they are, IMO, the best cars ever made when it comes to simplicity and reliability. I swapped a fuel pump out the other day and it took me, maybe 10 minutes.

[This message has been edited by Rainman (edited 04-30-2008).]

I found a good deal on a 1993 850 GLT with 300,000 KMs. The guy always had it dealer serviced and it spent it's whole life on the highway. All new brakes, battery and alternator. Inside and out it looks like new, all leather, all the power options heated seats, power sunroof and remote start with brand new Michelin Alpine snow tires for $2900. The guy just got a s70 so he is selling this one.

Sound like a good one to get?

It sounds like a nice car. I believe '93 is the first year for the 850 and has been plagued with first year issues. I would assume with that many miles they have been worked out. The 5 cylinder engines are pretty peppy. I looked very seriously a few months ago for an 850 R Wagon and found a few in the area that I really liked, but the more I read about the 800 series the more I shied away and ended up buying something else instead. The S/V series is really just an 850 with a new name, same car. If you look newer, you need to really watch out for the '99 and later models with throttle by wire, I hear nasty things about them. When Ford got involved, Volvo quality and reliability went straight into the crapper. They will never be the same, even if they are sold.

I had a mtn biking buddy who had a V70 XC (AWD) and he had nothing but problems with cooling system, electronics, computer, etc. Every month he was usually paying more at the mechanic than his loan payment. He got it fixed, stopped driving it until it sold.

www.turbobricks.com
www.brickboard.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_850

I would run searches on 850 and get an idea of what your looking at. It could well be a fine car for you, but I hear the transmissions on them are not as reliable as the rwd trannies.

[This message has been edited by Rainman (edited 04-30-2008).]

Thank you, I will check those links. I can't really look at much newer cause 4k is my absolute MAX I can spend.I am not fixing the Saturn this time. I refuse to give that arsehole mechanic anymore money. So I will likely only get a few hundred dollars for that lemon of a car as a parts car. I have been really looking for a Volvo exclusively because everyone, even my regular mechanic tells me they are the car to have for what I do. As many highway miles and I put on a car, about 1500 KM's a month that I really need something like a bmw or a volvo. They suggest those mainly because I cannot really pull up to some of my clients in an econo box ford fiesta and then hand them a bill for $120 an hour I need a business class sedan that will survive the miles I will put on it. Most have also told me that a Volvo is the cheaper of the group to repair in general.

Now to go read thru those links....

Thanks,
Randy

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Thanks to advice from PFF members such as Rainman in my Volvo search thread, I ended up buying a 1986 Volvo 740 GLE Wagon for my girlfriend to cart her two kids and husky around in. We haven't had it for very long yet, but so far it's worked out very well. (It's pictured at the bottom of my thread.) My only real complaint is that the 4-banger engine sounds a little rattley, especially after a cold start, but it seems to run and accelerate fine.

Rainman, maybe you can comment on whether or not Volvo engines of this vintage have any more of a "rattle" to them than say, a typical Chevy small block V8.

Yes, I would've liked to have bought a 1990 or newer version of the 740 wagon, but the price was right and it had a manual tranny which I was having trouble finding.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-30-2008).]

quote Originally posted by 8Ball: Thank you, I will check those links. I can't really look at much newer cause 4k is my absolute MAX I can spend.I am not fixing the Saturn this time. I refuse to give that arsehole mechanic anymore money. So I will likely only get a few hundred dollars for that lemon of a car as a parts car. I have been really looking for a Volvo exclusively because everyone, even my regular mechanic tells me they are the car to have for what I do. As many highway miles and I put on a car, about 1500 KM's a month that I really need something like a bmw or a volvo. They suggest those mainly because I cannot really pull up to some of my clients in an econo box ford fiesta and then hand them a bill for $120 an hour I need a business class sedan that will survive the miles I will put on it. Most have also told me that a Volvo is the cheaper of the group to repair in general. Now to go read thru those links.... Thanks, Randy

If you are looking for a business class sedan that will take miles and cost less than $4K, I suggest you also look at Saab. Volvo and Saab are both almost soley Bosh components which are German. I always refer to my Volvos as German cars made in Sweden. The same could be said for Saab. I would look at what is called by those in the know, the Saab GM900. This would be from years about '95-'98. The '99 Saab 9-3 is the same car with chassis/suspension improvement, but visually the same car. '00 and later, avoid, they are much more aligned into GM beginning that year. For the pre '00 GM900 (which includes the 9-3), GM has some influence, but Saab engine and choice of transmission are still used, only a little GM electronics/engine management. You should have no trouble finding them in your price range. They are long lasting, reliable, etc. I've owned two, and still have one. They are a bit more "goofy" but have many similarities with Volvo. Your choice of turbo or no turbo, they are safe, they are fast with the right engine/tranny combo, and they look somewhat classy.

I'm a Euro car guy at heart. The Fiero is my only domestic/US car.

[This message has been edited by Rainman (edited 05-01-2008).]

I wanted that wagon so badly, but importing this Saturn left a sour taste in my mouth and I do not want to do it again anytime soon.

Unless I find a T-Top formula with beechwood leather interior, less than 50k miles and under $400 Then I will import one again
I have read quite a few reviews about the 93 850 glt, and honestly the only bad thing I can find so far said about them was RayB's comment in Patrick's thread.
I am currently planning on going to see the car on Sunday.





He has agreed to not sell it without talking to me first. The driver's seat looks worn, but other than that he says she is in very very sharp condition.

quote Originally posted by 8Ball: I wanted that wagon so badly,

I told the guy who bought it from me that if he ever decides to sell it, to give me first chance to buy it back. A local cop bought it from me. He's about 4 jurisdictions over, but that's only about 7 miles from me.

Honestly, the 850 isn't that bad of a car. They still retain quite a bit of the traditional Volvo quality and reliability. They are going to be better than most other vehicles in the price range for reliability, but not the same league as their rwd counterparts.

[This message has been edited by Rainman (edited 04-30-2008).]

Yea that was one slick looking car. I would like to have a Saab as well, I kinda had one for a couple days back in 97. Most of the ones I have seen up here though, I could put my fist thru the fenders. That is the main reason I have not looked, I just figured a $4k Saab would be pretty ripe. However, I will have a look for some of those as well.

quote Originally posted by 8Ball: Most of the ones I have seen up here though, I could put my fist thru the fenders. That is the main reason I have not looked, I just figured a $4k Saab would be pretty ripe.

Must be the nature of the weather where you are. We get plenty of snow and salt and my Volvo/Saab cars have no rust or corrosion on them. They are a breeze to work on compared to Japanese/domestic US vehicles.

I can't find too many Volvo's in my price range around here. Of all the ones I have looked at, most are a manual. I must have an automatic for my wife. Many of them have a turbo and I have NEVER had good experiences with a turbo car, so I tend to want to run away screaming from a used high millage turbo car. So that leaves me with just a very few automatics under $4k. There are some lower millage Volvos, but they are either wrecked or just trashed.

Hmmmm

*trots off to search again for a rwd Volvo*

odd that you are finding turbo/sticks and few autos up there
here the auto's are far more common and cheaper then sticks

most Volvo guys donot like FWDs vs the older Rwd 4's
and older Fwd cars can have costly needs in the drive trains

volvo rust proofed the 86 cars before that they did rust bad esp the floors
pre 90 4's had weak rods but thats only a problem in the turbo's esp the hopped up ones
CPU's vary with the later 2.4 bosch units the best , avoid, the non bosch cars

I would not be too shy of the older turbos as Volvo used low boost
to get good mid range power and didnot stress the motors too much
so they tend to last as well as the nonturbos or almost
and turbo rebuilds are cheap at about 100 if the wheels are good and the housing are uncracked

93 240's are the last and best cars in the 240 line but are a little over priced due to demand
to vary over priced by some volvo nuts
as you can get a 940 [bigger more up market car] for the same or less cost
all 240-740-940 cars use the same basicly bullet proof motor and drive train

your 850 looks to be high mile and high priced too
a car like that would go for about 1/2 his price in miami

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

quote Originally posted by ray b: all 240-740-940 cars use the same basicly bullet proof motor and drive train

Ray, I appreciated your advice in my earlier thread as well. Any chance you could comment on the concerns I mentioned to Rainman a few posts back? (I think he missed them as I had edited my post and added them later.) Thanks.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I ended up buying a 1986 Volvo 740 GLE Wagon... My only real complaint is that the 4-banger engine sounds a little rattley, especially after a cold start, but it seems to run and accelerate fine. Rainman, maybe you can comment on whether or not Volvo engines of this vintage have any more of a "rattle" to them than say, a typical Chevy small block V8.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-30-2008).]

Patrick,

Two words: piston slap. This is quite common with the pre '93 B230 engines. My wagon had it fairly loud in cold weather, folks would ask if it were a diesel. When the ambient temp was 60*F or above, the engine was silent, didn't even know it was running if you were inside the car. My sedan with 50K more miles never had it. Its hit or miss which engine will develop slap, but its not uncommon, and they will happily slap for the rest of their lives without issue. In '93 Volvo extended the piston skirts and added oil squirters to solve the issue.

Its also possible the valves need adjusted. They are a clackity engine in general. I wouldn't worry about it much.

[This message has been edited by Rainman (edited 04-30-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Rainman: Two words: piston slap. Its also possible the valves need adjusted. They are a clackity engine in general.

Yes, I was wondering if it might be something as "simple" as the valves needing adjustment. Never having worked on a Volvo before, I don't know at this point how it's done. Is it at all similar to adjusting the hydraulic valves on a Chevy (by turning the nut on the rockers)?

Would there be any reason not to use 20W-50 oil to try and quiet things down?

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-30-2008).]

quote Originally posted by ray b: odd that you are finding turbo/sticks and few autos up there here the auto's are far more common and cheaper then sticks

I believe Volvo used to have a plant around here, so there are quite a few higher end Volvo's from the 80's to 90's. I suspect this may be why there are not many Auto's.

quote your 850 looks to be high mile and high priced too a car like that would go for about 1/2 his price in miami

300k KM's converts to 186,411 Miles. Most of the ones I am finding are between 260,000 KM and 400,000 KMs I looked at a 97 S70 with 214k but he is over two and a half hours away and he wants 5k for it. It looks nice, but it is way outta my price range. Alot of the rest I am finding are mid 80's models with 240-260k on them. When you get back that old, it scares me as a daily driver.

If I had an extra $1500 to spend, that would put me in the range of several nice 7 and 9 series cars. One thing I have found up here, cars are cheap, but rust free cars are expensive!!

living in miami I know very little about cold weather effects/sounds

do know that Volvo used shimms to adjust valves and many cars may need that work done if hi-mile

I paid 800 for a 83 245 turbo stick with 180 k miles sold at over 200k
got a 89 745 turbo auto for 1100 with 140k miles blew do to over loaded towing at 180k
I really drove that car tooo hard tooo fast towing other cars
a 94 940 that needed a starter for 1200 with 80 k miles
and the cleanest 90 744 I have ever seen [motor look like NEW ] 1300 @ 90k miles
latest project is a 92 244 lite wreck [needed a front fender] for 400 @ 85k miles

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

Ray is right about Florida. 75 is a cold day there.

About the 850. I had a '95 Turbo 850. No trouble at all the 2 years I rented it. Best car I ever had bar none.

I'd like to get a 960 and put a 350 SBC in it.

Yea you suck... all that warm weather and all
I miss Tennessee and the pretty much perfect weather.

Last week it was -4 and snowing. Today it is 9 and raining. Tomorrow 6 and raining. But it is supposed to get up to 16 this weekend For a minute or two I am sure.

One more detail to limit my search is most of the ones I find are wagons. My wife is not a big fan of the wagon.

quote Originally posted by 8Ball: One more detail to limit my search is most of the ones I find are wagons. My wife is not a big fan of the wagon.

She's be a fan if you had a husky and packed a lot of gear.

Patrick:

The lifters in Volvos are solid, not hydraulic, so as RayB said, they use a shim. My BMW uses an eccentric wheel to adjust for its solid lifters. They are easier to adjust than the Volvo, but the Volvo isn't a bad job.

Go here ( http://www.ipdusa.com/produ...P_ID=2945&CAT_ID=474 ) and rent the:
Shim kit: http://www.ipdusa.com/versi...CAT_ID=474&V_ID=6640
Shim release tool: http://www.ipdusa.com/versi...CAT_ID=474&V_ID=6641

and buy a pick and offset feeler gauge set.

Easy afternoon job. I would buy a new valve cover gasket to replace while you're in there.

I also use www.Eeuroparts.com for many parts purchases.

[This message has been edited by Rainman (edited 04-30-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: She's be a fan if you had a husky and packed a lot of gear.

I suspect she would be Man that is an insanely tightly packed car!

quote Originally posted by 8Ball: Yea that was one slick looking car. I would like to have a Saab as well, I kinda had one for a couple days back in 97. Most of the ones I have seen up here though, I could put my fist thru the fenders. That is the main reason I have not looked, I just figured a $4k Saab would be pretty ripe. However, I will have a look for some of those as well.

These are in my area, but...looks like you need to make a road trip to the states.
'95 900 turbo 5-speed with 44K miles for $2520 - http://cincinnati.craigslis...g/car/635417960.html
'95 900S with 183K miles for $1950 - http://cincinnati.craigslis...g/bar/619207617.html
'95 900S convertible with 166K miles for $3000 - http://cincinnati.craigslis...g/car/660118436.html
'95 900S with 166K miles for $1800 - http://dayton.craigslist.org/car/660787564.html

Tip of the iceburg for my area. I didn't even look at autotrader. Volvos are even more plentiful. There is a '96 850 with 89K miles going for $4200 in the area right now. Says its in great condition, but no photos. And a '93 850 with 132K miles for $2500.

[This message has been edited by Rainman (edited 04-30-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Rainman: The lifters in Volvos are solid, not hydraulic, so as RayB said, they use a shim...

Rainman, thanks very much for the info and those links. The only problem with the "rental" of those items is that it would probably be somewhat of a hassle sending those things back and forth across the border twice (as I'm in Canada). However, the links are still great as at least I can see what is required to do the job.

Maybe I'll just try the 20W-50 oil and a can of STP first.

I can imagine that hound was not pleased!!!

Rainman, those are some pretty good deals
If I could buy each one of those nd bring them here, I likely could sell them for enough combined to buy a NEW Volvo.

I am trying to get the guy witht he 98 s70 down to my price range. I don't know if he will budge or not, but I would LOVE to have an S70!!!!

*edit*
I checked around a few more places and it seems that any good Saabs are just out of my price range up here. The cheapest I have found that I would CONSIDER buying was a 93 9000 CSE for $4500 with 300k on the odo. And it is still over my limit.

[This message has been edited by 8Ball (edited 05-01-2008).]

I am trying to get down this weekend to look at a 1995 940 turbo with 271k. I can get it for just under 2k. The guy claims it has no rust, looks good and runs good. But he has only had it a week. Used car lot in his yard type of deal. It is black with leather int. and all power options. An Automatic as well.

Here's a question for Rainman and Ray (or any other Volvo experts)...

I suggested that my girlfriend take the 740 Volvo wagon in to be looked at by her usual mechanic. I'm a handy guy, but I just don't have time for everything, plus I'm totally unfamiliar with Volvos.

Anyway, among my concerns was a slow leak of coolant from around the water pump. I couldn't tell if it was from the seal between the pump and the block, or from the seal on the shaft behind the fan.

I was shocked when they told my girlfriend it would cost $400 to replace the pump. They said they would also check out the timing belt while they were in there, so I suspect the $400 does not include the cost of a belt if it's required.

This seems rather excessive to me. Is it?

This is the Volvo I want!!! Cats and Kamatsu have just gone out of reach. Can get this one for $24K. Don't know anything about it other than it will start and run.

Hehehehe Wow, I cannot see me driving THAT Volvo to my clients offices However, I suspect one could get ALOT more return on their investment with that one

I have been reading up a lot on the brickboard and from what I have read, the 95 940T seems to be along the lines of our 88 GT's. It was the last year for the car and the year they fixed everything. The one I am going to see however has fairly high milage, but they all do here... unless you have 10 grand to spend!!
I am currently going over some FAQ's to find known problem spots to look for.

The current owner of the car says the only problem with it is someone replaced the radio with a CD drive with a removable face and he does not have the face.
However, like Dr. House says, everyone lies.

quote Originally posted by 8Ball: God freaking bless it!!!! People in this province are the most inconsiderate arseholes in the world!!!

I'm afraid your area back east has no special claim to "arseholes". They're everywhere!

Fortunately, there also appears to be an even distribution of decent folk around as well. It's just a matter of finding them.

This is very true.

Hmm ok so Volvo and Saab are proving to be difficult to find a descent one. I looked at two Saabs today as well. Both of them had the bottoms of every door rotting off and some heavy rot on the floors. One was a 92 the other a 94.

How about BMW? I see several late 80's-early 90's 325's for 2500-4k.

Patrick,

That is very high. The water pump is an easy job to do. Mostly a job of removing the fan blade (4 nuts) and taking the water pump off, which is located right at the front of the engine. Simple job, and parts to do it aren't much. Waterpump should be around $50 USD.

Rainman, RayB, what do you guys think about the S70's? I am strongly considering going the rather LOOONG way to check out this car. It is a 98 S70 Turbo. It has a 2.4L engine, so I think that would make it a GLT? I have been doing a little reading and it seems they had headlight problems? and they leaked oil around the oil pump bolts. Beyond that, are there any major problems?

This one has around 220k KMs on the odometer, leather interior and all the power options. They say it has zero rust as well. Would you think it would be worth 4500?

.
Rainman, thanks for the feedback. I haven't talked to the mechanic yet (I will tomorrow), but my girlfriend seemed to get the idea talking to him that it was expensive because the timing belt was in the same area and there was lots to remove to get at the pump. I wish I hadn't left my Volvo repair manual at her house (because it would be helpful for me to be looking through it), but is this a lot of baloney?

He gave her a rough estimate of $1300 to do the following (which included the $400 for the water pump):

1) Replace the water pump and fix leak at thermostat housing (although I never saw any evidence of coolant leaking at the housing).
2) Replace one tie rod.
3) Replace worn rear brake pads and rotors (as the parking brake won't hold the car).
4) Replace a short section of exhaust pipe immediately in front of the rear most muffler as there was a small hole in it.
5) Change oil and filter
6) Replace air filter
7) Replace something to do with the spark plug cables as supposedly something was broken.

In the past, this shop has been reasonable when repairing her (now retired) 1990 Hyundai Excel, but I'm beginning to suspect this estimate is way too high for what is being done to the Volvo. Is there a chance that some shops just don't like working on Volvos and raise the price of repair accordingly?

Now I've got Anne's father suggesting that I should never have bought this Volvo for her as it's too old (1986) and it'll be a money pit! He seems to think that simply buying a newer car (say, a 1995) would've precluded any necessary repairs. I told Anne he's dreaming as every car requires maintenance.

Anything further to add, Rainman? What's your opinion of a 1986 Volvo in regards to it's age? Is it indeed "too old"? Will it become a "money pit", any more so than any other car?

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-05-2008).]

OT but...


THIS is a million mile volvo...............
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heh
j/k