quote Originally posted by fierofetish: I donīt ever make coments in these threads, because I donīt live there, and therefore donīt understand.This is the main point I would like to make, and forgive my ignorance regarding guns..but surely, if a student wanted to kill people on a campus, or in school, and he thinks he will get shot by 50 people when he tries...what is to stop him taking explosives into school, rather than a gun? If they can get guns in, then surely they could get a bomb in.and DEFINITELY do a LOT of damage, and cause carnage on an enormos scale. Rather negates the call for carrying guns, IMHO.My point really is that, if they succeed in getting guns in, why not bombs? If he knows, and actually HOPES he will die anyway, he will be able to detonate it without anybody realising what he is doing? And guns wonīt help then will they? (interrogatory statement ) Criminals will always find a new way, when the old way doesnīt work any more..we have seen it time and time again. And just another question here..How much training does a policeman get, in handling and using guns? And how long must he train before he can actually use one? Just seems to me that, if that training is a LOT more comprehensive at the moment, than qualifying for a CCP, and the students are allowed to carry in the future, you might just as well not waste precious time and money taining the police to such a high level of competency...just give them the gun.Serious questions, looking for some enlightenment. Oh, and one more thing..if it is ONLY the teacher, or some other figure of authority allowed to carry..then you'd better give them body armour too, because the shooter will know exactly WHO to shoot first, before indulging in the rest of their terrible mission. Nick Gun crime in general: this makes some interesting reading: http://rkba.org/research/wr...riminal.summary.html

Doesn't matter how educated the cops are when they're on the other side of town. If somone showed up near me and I got lucky enough to realize they had a bomb I would have a lot better chance with a gun than with my hands and so would everyone else in the area. If it was impossible to recognize and shoot people with bombs before they detinated there would be a lot less people coming home from Iraq. Most nuts will make a slight production of it, enough for you to be sure of what is going on. In any case everyone in the area has a better chance pf survival if someone has a gun. Not guaranteed survival, just a better chance.

Hmm..I see your point but..shoot somebody who is wearing a bomb? Chance worth taking, I suppose And to be honest, these are young people with little experience ..
Nick

I have read, but have no real opinion on this subject.

yes - alot of the problem is how uncomfortable people get when they know that someone has a gun.

I see it all the time, because my brother in law is a detroit police officer. they ALWAYS carry when off the job. but - people are often uncomfortable around cops too.

its a funny feeling when "that dude" over there - who you really dont know - but you know he has a gun. and, I think this is alot of the fuel for "anti-gun" folk. because that feeling is often a HUGE dose of inadequacy & powerlessness. they feel they need to walk on eggshells now, and not upset the wielder. cant disagree - and are scared to voice opinion. suddenly meek.
see it all the time when people meet him for the first time. loudmouths are suddenly timid. everyones respectful. its like a fairy waved a politeness wand over them.

"Just remember....when seconds count, the police are only minutes away...."


(Not sure who originally said that, but it is brutally true)

/\ /\ /\ /\

Exactly. The Police Chief knows that, too, but does not dare admit it, hence his comment.

CCW on campus is a good idea.

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: Hmm..I see your point but..shoot somebody who is wearing a bomb? Chance worth taking, I suppose And to be honest, these are young people with little experience .. Nick

They do it all the time over in Iraq. If you can take him down before he presses the button, nothing bad happens.

quote Explosives also are much more unstable than firearms. There is a good chance the amature sickos will blow themselves up before they ever get to blow up others. If they put enough planning into their attack to be successful or they are professional enough to be sucessful, I would hope the ATFE or FBI would have some indication of it, considering the terrorism alert status they are in now...

Yep, you see it all the time on pyro boards. More than likely, the Columbine kids probably had the fuses worked out on their bombs, only to be met with poor quality control or otherwise. Maybe even a fuse wet with innocent blood.

I'm not so sure about the ATF/FBI/DHS being able to find out about a coordinated plan. Sure, if it was distributed like the 9/11 attacks I think it could be done, but a couple of kids that know each other and are smart enough to talk in person and indoors? Law enforcement can only operate with the information you give it. Thats why they want surveillance tools so badly. (Hell, they are trying to make it so that anyone detained by a fed to have his DNA taken!)

Be smart and you can outwit a gaggle of fools for a little while.

[This message has been edited by AP2k (edited 04-17-2008).]

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Why stop with college students? There are lots of 18 year old high school students. Shouldn't they be packing heat, too? Think of the fun times at a football game when somebody disses your kids team. Instead of dissing them back, the kid could shut him up and gain instant cred. In fact, why not issue EVERY citizen a CCW permit for their 18th birthday? Maybe the gun manufacturers could include a rebate coupon to make it easier for young people to purchase that first weapon. Then, we'd finally all be safe.

Considering the legal age to apply for a carry permit in most ( all? ) states that have CCW is 21, id say no.

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: Hmm..I see your point but..shoot somebody who is wearing a bomb? Chance worth taking, I suppose And to be honest, these are young people with little experience .. Nick

I'm not sure of the concern about shooting someone wearing a bomb. I suppose there is some chance it might detonate with impact, but a much greater chance it will detonate by whatever means has been engineered by the mule who's carrying it. My son is a student. He is 22. He has much experience shooting people with bombs. Not all college students are inexperienced.

quote Originally posted by Silentassassin185: Was a big thing about this last year I think it was. Protests were done by carrying an empty holster on campus. I for one am all for it.

http://www.concealedcampus.org/

The arguments on here are staggeringly hilarious; people arguing that guns on campuses are or are not safe, arguing that guns aren't what kill people, people are, etc......

Let me put in my two cents; if we think just because some kid goes on campus and kills some other kids all college students should be allowed to go to class packing heat, then why don't we just hand out missiles to each and every citizen of a country when someone else invades and starts genocide? Why don't we are all the babies that are still alive, all because abortions have killed off less fortunate babies?

Look, people killing each other will continue REGARDLESS of what we do, it is a fact of nature that not all people can be saved. Maybe what we should focus on is better campus security, but then again, other groups will have trouble with that as well...

quote Originally posted by BazookaFiero: *snip* Look, people killing each other will continue REGARDLESS of what we do, it is a fact of nature that not all people can be saved. *snip

And that is one reason any law abiding adult should get to exercise the right to be able to defend himself and not become one of the 'not all people can be saved' list. ( and ya, most college 'kids' are legally adults )

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 04-19-2008).]

quote Originally posted by BazookaFiero: ...why don't we just hand out missiles to each and every citizen of a country when someone else invades and starts genocide?

Well, if you swap rifles for missiles, that method has worked quite well for Switzerland. That's one of the reason they weren't invaded during WWII - because the Axis forces knew how hard it would be to invade a country where every male adult has a rifle at home. They managed to avoid both WWI and WWII. Being well armed and prepared allowed them the luxury of NOT having to fight. Countries where guns were outlawed were invaded and conquered pretty easily and it took many Allied lives to liberate those countries.

quote Originally posted by BazookaFiero: Why don't we are all the babies that are still alive, all because abortions have killed off less fortunate babies?

Um, I have no idea what you're saying there.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 04-19-2008).]