quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: If that were true, Mercury would be the planet with the hottest average temperature. Instead, Venus, at over 2x the distance from the sun, holds that record. By all accounts, if we had the same atmosphere composition, our average temperature would be 100F - which means Arizona in summer would probably get hot enough to boil water.

average temp - nice try
which has the actual highest? mercury. it has a lower average because its rotation keeps one side facing the sun always, so the cold side is WAAAAY cold. it has no chance to cycle up & down. it has HOOOOOT side - hottest surface in the solar system, and a cold side - coldest surface this side of Mars. yes - it has a AVERAGE lower than venus.

and, I do beleive if we had the same atmosphere composition - we wouldn't be having this discussion. what is the barometric pressure at the surface? how thick is the atmosphere? it is THICK. and, it is dense.

and, if you like - you can also add if we had the same core/surface composistion, our average temprature would be 200F - and continue with "if this - then that" - Venus is another planet. made of other stuff. the surface is basicly huge flat occaisonaly molten lava stuff. and it is Lava stuff from internal heat. not solar heat. not "greenhouse heat". niether of these creates enough heat to melt rock. internal heat.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Arizona in summer would probably get hot enough to boil water.

It does...but it's a dry heat.

quote Originally posted by Puckhead: I live in St Louis and 20 years ago I played hockey on ponds that haven't frozen enough for ducks to walk on in 10 years.

I live in south Texas and last year was the first year that I know of that we did no have multiple 100+ degree days. Many times they would/will be consecutive days. I don't think we even hit a hundred last year but may have once or twice.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Venus is hotter than Mercury because it has an atmosphere. Not only that, but the pressure at the surface is NINETY (90) times that of Earth's. THAT'S the primary reason why Venus is so hot (900dF or 480dC). I saw a statistic that said the Earth's mean temperature, if in Venus' orbit, would be 126dC (did you mean 100dC?). Earth's currently accepted mean temperature is 59dF.

The question is, how did it get that way? Earth and Venus were formed under identical conditions. Venus even had an ocean. Next thing you know, all the water boiled away, and all of the carbon sublimated out of the rock, and you have this run away effect.

I also refute your statistic:


Te is mean planetary temperature. Venus is 0.72 AU from the sun. Radius of the sun is 0.00465246862 AU. Ts = 5780K.

I get 328K = 130 F. Substitute 1AU in, and you get 279K = 43 F, or very close to the mean earth temperature of 60 F. (atmospheric effects notwithstanding)

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: average temp - nice try which has the actual highest? mercury. it has a lower average because its rotation keeps one side facing the sun always, so the cold side is WAAAAY cold. it has no chance to cycle up & down. it has HOOOOOT side - hottest surface in the solar system, and a cold side - coldest surface this side of Mars. yes - it has a AVERAGE lower than venus. and, I do beleive if we had the same atmosphere composition - we wouldn't be having this discussion. what is the barometric pressure at the surface? how thick is the atmosphere? it is THICK. and, it is dense. and, if you like - you can also add if we had the same core/surface composistion, our average temprature would be 200F - and continue with "if this - then that" - Venus is another planet. made of other stuff. the surface is basicly huge flat occaisonaly molten lava stuff. and it is Lava stuff from internal heat. not solar heat. not "greenhouse heat". niether of these creates enough heat to melt rock. internal heat.

No, Venus is also hotter than Mercury. Wait Pyrthian, didn't you just say the atmosphere has "no noticeable impact"? See above. Venus looked like Earth at one point in time. It had oceans: http://www.cbc.ca/technolog...h-venus-climate.html Then something happened (asteroid impact? volcanism?) that caused a runaway effect, basically leading to the evaporation of it's oceans, and further sublimation of the CO2 into the atmosphere. Next thing you know, it's average temperature is 850+ deg F, a full 700 degrees higher than it would be without an atmosphere.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: No, Venus is also hotter than Mercury. Wait Pyrthian, didn't you just say the atmosphere has "no noticeable impact"? See above. Venus looked like Earth at one point in time. It had oceans: http://www.cbc.ca/technolog...h-venus-climate.html Then something happened (asteroid impact? volcanism?) that caused a runaway effect, basically leading to the evaporation of it's oceans, and further sublimation of the CO2 into the atmosphere. Next thing you know, it's average temperature is 850+ deg F, a full 700 degrees higher than it would be without an atmosphere.

venus looked like earth at one point? when? in the early black 'n white movies? no solar activity - or atmospheric activity is gonna melt the surface of a planet. and melt it has.

and, you can stretch "no noticable impact" all ya like. obviously, the complete lack of atmosphere vs a thick dense atmosphere, on different size planets, on varying distances from the sun - yes there will be diffrering conditions.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Venus looked like Earth at one point in time. It had oceans: http://www.cbc.ca/technolog...h-venus-climate.html Then something happened (asteroid impact? volcanism?) that caused a runaway effect, basically leading to the evaporation of it's oceans, and further sublimation of the CO2 into the atmosphere. Next thing you know, it's average temperature is 850+ deg F, a full 700 degrees higher than it would be without an atmosphere.

I didn't know they had SUVs on mercury back then!!

Wasn't George Bush the president of mercury around that time??

Hey check out this one

Also very enlightening

Arn

http://www.dailytech.com/So...Age/article10630.htm

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: No, Venus is also hotter than Mercury. Wait Pyrthian, didn't you just say the atmosphere has "no noticeable impact"? See above. Venus looked like Earth at one point in time. It had oceans: http://www.cbc.ca/technolog...h-venus-climate.html Then something happened (asteroid impact? volcanism?) that caused a runaway effect, basically leading to the evaporation of it's oceans, and further sublimation of the CO2 into the atmosphere. Next thing you know, it's average temperature is 850+ deg F, a full 700 degrees higher than it would be without an atmosphere.

My problem with looking at Venus and going well why did all the water go away is pointed out in the second site you have here. When first formed Venus and Earth may have been twins in makeup and but Venus is closer to the sun than the Earth is. And I do believe that almost all scientist will agree that the Earth is in the almost perfect orbit around our sun to support life(as we know it). Any closer or further away from the sun and Earth would become just like Venus or just like Mars and this discussion would be a mote point.

My big problem with the whole global warming scam is they do not have the millenniums of hard recorded data to say exactly what the long term temperature cycles of this planet is. You have a couple hundred years of man recorded temperature data and a whole bunch of best guesses from some core samples. Now if global warming was causing everything to get warmer shouldn't we have been having a whole lot more hurricanes in Florida? If the water is warmer the conditions for hurricanes should be better funny the last few years we have had the least amount of activity in a while. http://www.coaps.fsu.edu/~maue/tropical/

In my opinion we are not killing the planet it is more than likely going thru its own cycle and we will either learn to adapt or disappear just like the last several sets of inhabitants of this planet. Not to say we should not try to come up with cleaner technology but it would be more as a way to show maturity as a species than to really "save" the Earth.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: The question is, how did it get that way? Earth and Venus were formed under identical conditions. Venus even had an ocean. Next thing you know, all the water boiled away, and all of the carbon sublimated out of the rock, and you have this run away effect. I also refute your statistic: Te is mean planetary temperature. Venus is 0.72 AU from the sun. Radius of the sun is 0.00465246862 AU. Ts = 5780K. I get 328K = 130 F. Substitute 1AU in, and you get 279K = 43 F, or very close to the mean earth temperature of 60 F. (atmospheric effects notwithstanding)

Actually, I made a mistake. I meant to say 126dF, because I remember seeing that figure once (and it was in F, not C).