i for one approve of this decession, for one aren't we already spending all our money in another country, if we approve this don't we all just become more poor, i mean come on, im already poor enough from taxes. i dont need more to pay to the goverment to cover funding, i'd be glad if a private company(s) researched it, but not with the funding from our tax dollars. I'd be more focused on World War 3 coming up next year. Sorry if offend anyone by accepting Bush's decision.


im confused anyways

Yeah but atleast would have been spending our money on us for a change.

quote Originally posted by DrFunk234: if we approve this don't we all just become more poor, i mean come on, im already poor enough from taxes. im confused anyways

Undestandable.....

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Yeah but atleast would have been spending our money on us for a change. Undestandable.....

And you don't think that investing in our own national security is spending money on us? Do you REALLY want to know what 9/11 cost this country? Some notable economists are estimating 1/2 trillion dollars. And that was just ONE attack. If we have to spend that money ANYWAY I'd rather kill terrorists with it than spend it rebuilding our country after they destroy it.

Iraq was a bad and unnessesary investment or have you not yet grasped that Todd.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13952922/

quote Originally posted by Wolfhound: Iraq was a bad and unnessesary investment or have you not yet grasped that Todd. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13952922/

Guess not.

and neither has anyone else it seems

http://www.export.gov/iraq/

http://www.i-acci.org/Iraq%20needs%20investment%20Eng.htm

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed10082003.cfm

quote Originally posted by Wolfhound: Iraq was a bad and unnessesary investment or have you not yet grasped that Todd. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13952922/

Hmmm, I think I'll let my investments ride instead of cashing out now, Wolfhound. I think I'll let my first-hand knowledge of the the investment guide me over "outsiders" worries guide me.

Todd, You obviously didn't read the link I gave.
You're links were pipe dreams. The rebuilding of Iraq is not happening after 3 1/2 years , except in some fantasy world.

Aceman ,Things in Iraq are going badly. It's a full blown Civil War killing a hundred Iraqis a day, whether anyone admits it or not. attacks on our troops are up from 25 a day to 35 a day.
The newly elected leader there supports Lebanon. Nowhere is safe outside the green zone.

Whats the good news? lets hear it.

Where are you getting your numbers and analysis?

1 year ago, I was sitting in that sh!thole..........(We had 25 attacks a day in our Battalion at this time last year. Casualties 5-6. Deaths 3. There's just a few more "attacks" than you're reporting.) Look at the month by month attacks and deaths. It goes up starting in June to July and it always goes down in the winter months.

Good things are never shown immediately. Bad things are.

I can't even read or watch the news anymore without shaking my head and call the news sources frikken idiots.

Where am I getting my numbers and analysis?

Guess you didn't read the link either.

Here from FOX news:

BAGHDAD, Iraq — Attacks soared by 40 percent in the Baghdad area over the past week despite the government's security clampdown, the U.S. military said Thursday. An American general said extremists were preparing "an all-out assault" on the capital in a decisive battle for the future of the country.

Iraq's top Shiite cleric issued his strongest call yet for an end to Shiite-Sunni bloodletting, urging Iraqis "of different sects and ethnic groups" to wake up to the "danger threatening the future of the country" and stand "side-by-side against it."

[This message has been edited by Wolfhound (edited 07-20-2006).]

"U.S. military spokesman Maj. Gen. William Caldwell said there had been an average of 34 attacks a day involving U.S. and Iraqi forces in and around the capital since Friday — up sharply from the daily average of 24 registered between June 14 and July 13."

Like I said.....I shake my head and just call the news outlets frikkien idiots. So, like I said IT ALWAYS GOES UP AT THIS TIME OF THE YEAR. And, from what I stated in my previous post, the attacks on U.S. military is DOWN DRAMATICALLY FROM THIS TIME LAST YEAR! (No, the news nor liberals will EVER analyze that!)

Hey Wolfhound, let's just pull out 100% right now and do the Vietnam thing, because no one has the balls to finish something off! Let's let the terrorist camps spread across Iraq like cancer because no one has the balls to finish it off. Let's just piss on the seeds we planted over there and cover them with a tarp instead of overseeing those seeds grow and flourish. It's the liberal, whinny assed thing to do.


I get my news from friends and co-workers that are over there right now. Things are much better than they were a year ago.

So, You say Maj. Gen. William Caldwell is lying.
What's the new plan more purple thumbs?

quote Originally posted by Wolfhound: Where am I getting my numbers and analysis? Guess you didn't read the link either. Here from FOX news: BAGHDAD, Iraq — Attacks soared by 40 percent in the Baghdad area over the past week despite the government's security clampdown, the U.S. military said Thursday. An American general said extremists were preparing "an all-out assault" on the capital in a decisive battle for the future of the country. Iraq's top Shiite cleric issued his strongest call yet for an end to Shiite-Sunni bloodletting, urging Iraqis "of different sects and ethnic groups" to wake up to the "danger threatening the future of the country" and stand "side-by-side against it."

I gotta wonder. If the "All Bush, republican propaganda" network (FOX "news") says things are going badly in Iraq, then the place must be a total chaos in reality.
I really hate to advocate "cut and run" as the spinners would call it, but it does appear that our job is done. Saddam is in prison (I think). An elected government is in place.
There is a civil war happening between different religious factions now, We should butt out of that.
Its not our business. Mission accomplished.
What this has to do with Bush pandering to the base by vetoing federal support for embryonic stem cell research, outside of medical care for veterans, I don't know.
With any luck, and some help from the American opposition, maybe the US government will keep its promise to take care of the vets when they return home.
Am I an optomist, or what?
Thats probably not gonna happen.
Thanks guys.
From Stars and Stripes: http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=5497

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 07-20-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Wolfhound: Todd, You obviously didn't read the link I gave.

Actually I did. The problem was that half the info was BS. For example, I get MY data from the GAO, The FED (that's the Reserve), the Pentagon, and Association of Business Leaders and Industrialists. I also happen to be a long time subscriber to Mr. Mike's Economics report.

With all due respect to MSNBC's (the lowest rated news organization on TV) emense knowledge of political even handedness...{Bhahaha...OK, I'm cool. Almost got through it} I am better informed.

quote You're links were pipe dreams. The rebuilding of Iraq is not happening after 3 1/2 years , except in some fantasy world.

I mean REALLY... It took 10 years to rebuild Berlin, just Berlin, AFTER the fighting was over. In 1982 when I visited Italy there were still bombed out sections of Naples!!!!! The fighting, declining that it may be, is still going on in Iraq. What psycho standard of performance are you using?

Someone is dreaming that's for sure. I'll give you great odds on who!

quote Things in Iraq are going badly. It's a full blown Civil War killing a hundred Iraqis a day, whether anyone admits it or not. attacks on our troops are up from 25 a day to 35 a day. The newly elected leader there supports Lebanon. Nowhere is safe outside the green zone. Whats the good news? lets hear it.

Well, try absolutely the opposite of everything you just said:

Going badly? How? They have had 3 free elections, ratified a democratic constitution, and just formed a government in just over 3 years..In shourt, that is defined as ****ING amazing!

Civil War? Uh...NO. The Sunnis AND Shia are both united in defeating the terrorists and the only ones fighting are the Iranian, Al Queda and Syrian backed thugs.

Everywhere in the Green Zone is safe, they have had just one attack (which injured no one) in it in the last 6 months.

Attacks on US troops are DOWN, not up. And the number of terrorist captured and useful intel received from locals has increased by 300% since last year.

And frankly, I frind it pathetic that you are so partisan that you will allow yourself to be deluded by the left wing nut jobs into bemoaning the great progress of these people. Just for laughs, how about being happy for them. They are no longer being tortured, starved, and enslaved.

Time to wake up and smell the statistics:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/MiddleEast/wm932.cfm

http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/2006/07/14/bill_clinton_defends_liebermans_iraq_stance_1152922213/

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 07-20-2006).]

And that relates to Bushes ONLY VETO EVER in his whole sorry presidency of a bill authorizing federal funding for embryonic stem cell research ....... how?
Some of us are wishing our government wanted to find cures for horrible diseases here, Todd.
And wondering why they don't care about the problems of American citizens who AREN'T able to contribute big dollars to the campaign coffers of the out of touch elite..

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 07-21-2006).]

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: And that relates to Bushes ONLY VETO EVER in his whole sorry presidency of a bill authorizing federal funding for embryonic stem cell research ....... how? Some of us are wishing our government wanted to find cures for horrible diseases here, Toddiepookins. And wondering why they don't care about the problems of American citizens who AREN'T able to contribute big dollars to the campaign coffers of the out of touch elite..

Oh yeah? Cures for diseases like death by falling out of 103 story buildings? Or death by being blown to bits while sitting in your bunk ionboard ship? Or death by going to work?

Try a little basic math Uranus, if you do not have Freedom because you've been killed, does your diabetes really seem like a big deal? I know thinking is not one of your strong suits, not being so much as a high school grad or anything, but give it try.

http://www.avot.org/article/20051129153000.html

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 07-20-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Oh yeah? ....Your anus, your diabetes really seem like a big deal? I know thinking is not one of your strong suits, not being so much as a high school grad or anything, but give it try. http://www.avot.org/article/20051129153000.html

What a gentleman.
Please explain the fascination you seem to have for my anus, or shut up and crawl back into your log cabin, please. There are adults trying to have a civil discussion here.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: What a gentleman. Please explain the fascination you seem to have for my anus, or shut up and crawl back into your log cabin, please. There are adults trying to have a civil discussion here.

What were we discussing?
The decision not to use Federal funds for Embryonic stem cell research (but not limiting what private corps/pharma companies can do)
Or.. that Bush is evil, Isreal is out of control, Iraq is a dead zone full of american bodies?

Sorry, got lost.. I thought this was a debate about Bush's veto of federal funding of Embryonic Stem Cell Research.. not a platform for every other grievance against his administration.

quote Originally posted by Uranus: Oh yeah? ....Your anus, your diabetes really seem like a big deal? I know thinking is not one of your strong suits, not being so much as a high school grad or anything, but give it try.

Typical liberal; Can't argue the facts so re-write the message to read the way you would have liked it to read and debate that! Here is my actuall quote:

quote Posted by Toddster: Oh yeah? Cures for diseases like death by falling out of 103 story buildings? Or death by being blown to bits while sitting in your bunk ionboard ship? Or death by going to work? Try a little basic math Uranus, if you do not have Freedom because you've been killed, does your diabetes really seem like a big deal? I know thinking is not one of your strong suits, not being so much as a high school grad or anything, but give it try. http://www.avot.org/article/20051129153000.html

quote posted by Uaana: not a platform for every other grievance against his administration.

Everything Uranus posts is meant to be a slam on the Bush Admin since his blind irrational hatred has clouded his perception of reality. The tragedy is that many others are just as easily led by the nose ring by the liberal elite in the media. If the NY Times says it is so, it MUST be. If Howard Dean screeches at teh top of his lungs that Bush be bad, it must be so, if Michael Moore gets rich producing propeganda films that would make Leni Reiffenstahl green with envy and passes them off as "News" or "Facts", it must be so.

Independent thought in this country is at an all time low. What is worse still is that when you finally get organizations and institutions who treat all politics even handedly and with great impartiality, putting facts out there for the viewer to judge on their own, the cattle are SO used to having their thoughts placed in their heads for them they can't even recognize their own inability to think and call it "right wing" extremism.

I'm worried for our country.

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 07-22-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Independent thought in this country is at an all time low. What is worse still is that when you finally get organizations and institutions who treat all politics even handedly and with great impartiality, putting facts out there for the viewer to judge on their own, the cattle are SO used to having their thoughts placed in their heads for them they can't even recognize their own inability to think and call it "right wing" extremism.

Or they call it "Faux News".

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: I really hate to advocate "cut and run" as the spinners would call it, but it does appear that our job is done. Saddam is in prison (I think). An elected government is in place.

I got that new motor in the Fiero, the job is done. But it ain't running 100%. I guess the job ain't done.
Correct me if I am wrong. The first suicide bombing was the Marine barracks in Lebonon. We cut and ran. It was a terroristic success and terrorists paid attention. We cut and ran in Somallia. It was also noted. We have invited terroristic attacks.
What will stop them ? A tit for a tat won't work, we did that in Vietnam. What a stupid tactic. The public got tired of it. As did the soldiers. Two, three, ten tit for tats is what it will take. After 9/11 a whole government fell, Al Quida lost a safe haven. Terrorist and legitamate governments sat up and took notice. Saddam Huessein openly defied UN resolutions because there was no bite to them. Hezzballa defied UN resolution 1559 because there was no bite. One can not negotiate from a position of weakness.
We need to kick some more a$$. We should not even consider negotiating. That says we do not want to fight. When they get tired of life getting worse and worse they will stop. Even I get tired of banging my head against the wall.

Before we got sidetracked by Toddiekins' unsolicited admiration of my anus, we were discussing the latest victory in the Bush administrations "war on brains," his veto of the bill authorizing federal funding for embryonic stem cell research.
Unlike the rest of the "back to the past" republicans, Governer Arnold Schwarzenegger sees the importance of this research and has authorized the State of Cali- fornia to loan $150 million to the California stem cell institute for research.
Good job, Governor.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-stemcell21jul21,1,1678736.story?ctrack=1&cse t=true
It's still a drop in the bucket compared to what Britain, France, Japan and China are doing , but at least it's SOMETHING.

And whats up with the Governator, anyway? He likes smart people. He believes in equal rghts for all people, even gay people. And he's fiscally responsible. (as much as any politician can be).
He CAN'T be a 2006 republican.
Maybe he really IS from the future.....

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 07-23-2006).]

You know what the good news is in all of this fighting? It's over for these guys, the whole country has turned against their backward ways,fear mongering, and Orwellian lies. So let them sit there in their comfortable chairs typing away lies and excuses like so many children excusing their bad behavior with a temper tantrum. It doesn't work any more. Every poll that comes out shows the country wants change. All the kings men couldn't put poor neo-conservatism back together again.

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 07-22-2006).]

For everyone who thinks Bush is stupid, evil or whatever for vetoing the bill, let me ask you something.
He is a pro-life person. He's said he's against abortion. What would you expect a pro-life/anti-abortion president to do with a bill that supports using embryonic stem cells for scientific research?

You can disagree with his decision, sure, but his decision didn't have to be some malevolent conspiracy to destroy America or whatever people want to say. He used his veto in accordance with his personal and religious views - views that he has never tried to hide from anyone.

The real surprise would have been had he not vetoed the bill.

It was politics Formula. Sheesh talk about blind faith here. You think it's coincidence that this all came up right now and Bush used his veto for the first time? Give me a ****ing break, the senate knew he would veto it, and the Republican party controls the Senate, the House, the Judiciary, and the Presidency. What do you have to gain by fooling yourself into thinking this was an actual principled decision? A little self respect for supporting this shrill weasel of a politician? He plays you people like a fiddle and you swallow it up and ask for more. Wake up for Christ's sake!

This is a human embryo. It is a microscopic collection of cells.


.
.

This is where the embryos that were going to be used for research are going.


That's right... instead of using these unused frozen embryos for finding cures to diseases they will be thrown away. Instead of using them to help create life, you people would instead doom them to the trashcan.

.
.
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_4077226

"The president vetoed a bill that would have paid for creating embryonic stem cells from frozen embryos being thrown away by fertility clinics. The discarded embryos' donors had to approve.

"Tens of thousands of frozen embryos are thrown away every year," said Freed, who currently has no stems cells suitable for human transplant. "It has nothing to do with murder."

It has to do with wasting a precious resource. If converting frozen embryos to embryonic stem cells is murder, what is throwing them in the trash?

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 07-22-2006).]

Take the tin foil hat off conn. Of course it was politics. Of course the senate knew he would veto it. He's said as much many times. The politics was in putting the bill before the president - not necessarily in the president's veto. The politics was in the timing, not the decision.

If the people really want this, if the senate really wants this, well then they can overturn his veto. Polls say over 2/3rds of Americans want this funding according to many posts in this thread. If the representatives truly want to do what their constituents want, then they can overturn the veto.

Everything that happens in Washington D.C. is politics. We all know this. But when a man says he has certain religious beliefs and because of those beliefs he will veto any legislation he sees going against those beliefs, and then makes good on his words, you scream there's some nefarious conspiracy of politics.

Look at who sponsered the bill if you really want to see who's playing politics. You can't see anything because you're blinded by hatred. I see the decision for what it is and don't try to make it something it's not. I disagree with it, but I'm not screaming about politics. If I were, I wouldn't be screaming at Bush, rather I'd be screaming at the Senate. If they truly want this bill to pass, they need to challenge the veto. If they don't, then it's the Senate playing politics more than anything else. What do you have to lose in sending a bill to the president you know he'll veto? You can act like the principled politico who's been overruled by the evil president.

And you fell for it completly. All of your bile and anger and hatred is directly solely at Bush. Just like the Senate planned. And you tell ME to wake up?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Take the tin foil hat off conn. Of course it was politics. Of course the senate knew he would veto it. He's said as much many times. The politics was in putting the bill before the president - not necessarily in the president's veto. The politics was in the timing, not the decision. If the people really want this, if the senate really wants this, well then they can overturn his veto. Polls say over 2/3rds of Americans want this funding according to many posts in this thread. If the representatives truly want to do what their constituents want, then they can overturn the veto. Everything that happens in Washington D.C. is politics. We all know this. But when a man says he has certain religious beliefs and because of those beliefs he will veto any legislation he sees going against those beliefs, and then makes good on his words, you scream there's some nefarious conspiracy of politics. Look at who sponsered the bill if you really want to see who's playing politics. You can't see anything because you're blinded by hatred. I see the decision for what it is and don't try to make it something it's not. I disagree with it, but I'm not screaming about politics. If I were, I wouldn't be screaming at Bush, rather I'd be screaming at the Senate. If they truly want this bill to pass, they need to challenge the veto. If they don't, then it's the Senate playing politics more than anything else. What do you have to lose in sending a bill to the president you know he'll veto? You can act like the principled politico who's been overruled by the evil president. And you fell for it completly. All of your bile and anger and hatred is directly solely at Bush. Just like the Senate planned. And you tell ME to wake up?

I see that the GOP clearly worked together to

A. Show the GOP base that the President is their man.
and
B. That the Senate and House are just like you said fighting the evil president.

They are trying to have it both ways. What is REALLY telling is that you are blinded enough to actually think Bush and his point man Karl Rove had no play in this disaster. You think Bush is the hero even if you disagree. THAT is telling. It's pretty damn obvious this was a setup by the GOP, ALL of them not just the senate. So look in the mirror bub. Democrats were happy to be on record voting on this, but that doesn't mean they crafted the play.

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 07-22-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Stop quoting stats. Lyndon Johnson governed by them, want him as president again?

We do. Right down to the BS lipservice paid to 'civil rights' and a totally stupid war.

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: You think Bush is the hero even if you disagree. THAT is telling. It's pretty damn obvious this was a setup by the GOP, ALL of them not just the senate. So look in the mirror bub. Democrats were happy to be on record voting on this, but that doesn't mean they crafted the play.

It's telling that you're an idiot if you think you know my mind. I don't think Bush is a hero. Far from it, but I'm not going to mince words with you. You'll only hear what you want to hear.

90 million for a yr for the gov to chip in why the f not the stupid ass has already spent 100s of millions on steriod use in a damn sport that has no effect on us at all gg goverment

Heres an educated, informed, and seemingly rational view of the subject from a American who recently spent time in Britain studying the research there.
Pay particular attention to the final paragraph.:

[QUOTE] DURHAM, ENGLAND While attending a brief on stem-cell research at the University of Durham, I was reminded that America's own efforts in that field are being artificially stunted by President George W. Bush's pandering to his base for political reasons. That feeling only increased with Bush's veto Wednesday of a bill that would have eased restrictions on federally funded embryonic stem-cell research.

But first, a general overview. Stem cells have the ability to differentiate into other types of cells. As such, they are a natural repair mechanism, potentially replacing tissue or organs.

But not all stem cells are created equal: somatic (adult) stem cells are multipotent, meaning they can produce only cells of a closely related group. Embryonic stem cells, on the other hand, are pluripotent, meaning they can produce any of the roughly 200 types of cells that the body contains. Researchers agree that embryonic stem-cell research has the greatest possibility of producing medical breakthroughs.
[SNIP]
But that religious defining of what constitutes a human being is not informed by science. Without consciousness, a blastocyst of less than 200 cells does not qualify as sentient life any more than, say, dandruff. Hence, both in-vitro fertilized eggs and eggs that have undergone nuclear transfer are not human beings. That realization should take the sting out of destroying such blastocysts. In fact, destruction of cloned embryos is a necessary part of avoiding violating human-cloning laws by allowing a clone to become a human being. In Britain, that means blastocysts created by cloning are destroyed upon reaching 14 days of age.
[SNIP]
In Britain, the government and private entities are cooperating not only in stem-cell research but in public educational outreach on the subject. I believe that the United States would be best served by following the British model. Patents are already being taken out as this is written, and the United States will be several laps behind in the stem-cell race and legally unable to make up ground if it does not quickly adopt a more enlightened approach.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-myword21a06jul21,0,2376670.story

quote Originally posted by Formula88: It's telling that you're an idiot if you think you know my mind. I don't think Bush is a hero. Far from it, but I'm not going to mince words with you. You'll only hear what you want to hear.

I can certainly see you're not very smart simply by you making excuses for such disgusting politics. It's funny how you defend Bush in this tthread but won't actually say it.

"I don't think Bush is a hero"

OK then why do you think it's such a principled thing Bush has done? Bush is either dumb as dirt, or playing politics with America's future in medical science, possibly causing billions to be lost from missed opportunity and causing the progress of medical science to be halted. WHich is it? And why is either one noble?

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: But that religious defining of what constitutes a human being is not informed by science. Without consciousness, a blastocyst of less than 200 cells does not qualify as sentient life any more than, say, dandruff. Hence, both in-vitro fertilized eggs and eggs that have undergone nuclear transfer are not human beings. That realization should take the sting out of destroying such blastocysts. In fact, destruction of cloned embryos is a necessary part of avoiding violating human-cloning laws by allowing a clone to become a human being. In Britain, that means blastocysts created by cloning are destroyed upon reaching 14 days of age.

Good article. I think the paragraph I quoted here is the crux of the matter, though. There is no clear definition of when life begins. Many people would say that killing a 2 year old child to harvest cells from it for medical research is wrong. (I would wager most people agree). But that's a clearly developed and conscious human being. Most people seem to agree that an unfertilized egg or sperm are not a living being. The point of debate then is at what time between conception and birth (or 2 years, or 20 years) does "life" begin?

That's more of a philosophical question than a scientific one since how do you measure a "soul?" Does a fetus 2 weeks before birth constitute a living being? There have been premature births younger than that to survive, so that would suggest yes. So, when does the switch trip and a group of cells that given the proper environment can mature into a 20 year old adult (or 2 year old child) become a living human being?

I don't have the answer to that. It's also the crux of the abortion argument, IMO.

If fertilized and viable embryos are being destroyed now (either discarded from a fertility clinic or in a cloning lab) and the argument is made that you can't do the research becasue a viable embryo is a life, then the ethical issues need to be addressed with fertility clinics and cloning labs as well.

It's a complicated issue and blind allegiance to either science or religion is likely not the answer. But as long as people can use the issue to attack those they disagree with, there won't be an answer. We've seen that much with the abortion argument for years.

sorry i haven't taken the time to read through all the sometimes rambling, off topic posts in this thread.

my query is what is the last disease that man has cured? polio? i'm not in the medical field so i really don't know. i haven't heard of any serious debilitating disease that we've cured in decades. if we can't cure a simple cold, why do we think we can grow cells to repair a human spinal cord?

i think it has something to do with MONEY. why cure a disease when you can get paid to treat it? if its cured then you don't have a customer anymore. if you treat a person for years, you make money for years.

maybe i'm cynical. i really don't think that in 100 years the pres's veto will help or hinder any medical break throughs.

Stem cells, the war in Iraq, etc. etc. etc........

But the question remains, does George Bush hate Americans?

No. G. W. Bush does not hate Americans, he is just a weak President with marginal support and a lack of true imagination and leadership ability. I am a Republican, a conservative, my family have been Republicans since the 1860s. G. W. Bush does not in my opinion, and the opinion of many fellow Republicans, fully represent the interests or beliefs of the party or of most Americans. Liberal, conservative, it is all a wash. We just need GOOD leadership in Washington which is something that has been lacking for some time!

Come Congressional election time, I am voting not along party lines but along "anti-incumbant" lines. All of the jokers in there now are worthless. Just vote against any sitting Congressman and get them out! The real "power" in DC is in Congress for the most part. Bush can do some things, like vetos and Executive orders, but Congress are the real culprits and the unseen evil in government!

And on that happy note....... Cheers

Good point. Unless I have a strong opinion about the candidates one way or the other, I'm voting against the incumbents.
It's gonna take a lot for an incumbent to earn my vote next time around.

I'd love to see a grass roots initiative to vote out ALL incumbents, regardless of party.

why do people believe only what they want to believe anyways?

I'll say it again, im not agaisnt his decision, we are becoming overpopulated anyways But we really have other things to worry about at this time, such as World War 3 next year, and solving this gas crisis and lowering taxes and im sure all of you can think of something as well?

Only if money grew on trees, then we could do whatever we want right?

for politicians it does grow on trees. they just have to figure out how to pick it...

Lots of people think the federal government is spending a large part of the budget dollars on medical research, school lunches, veterans benefits, and other "feel good" items.
Not true.
Here's where the money goes:


I think we, like Britain, could afford a few dollars for this important research.
And don't forget President Bush vetoed it NOT for financial reasons, but religious reasons.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 07-23-2006).]

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Bush uses his religious beliefs to make important decisions that should be made on rational, not spiritual grounds.

Neptune, if you aren't religious, that's your business. Bush obviously is, and as most religious people do, he takes his religious convictions seriously. This is every bit as legitmate a reason for decision making as whatever your philosophy is, regardless of whether or not you agree with it.