Realistically, it may have taken the wind out of the terrorists' sails a bit, but it won't eliminate them. For the short term, there may be an increase in attempted attacks. For the long term, I suspect that the terrorist organizations will be less organized and less cohesive.
With any luck, it'll be more like that other old saying that went something like cut the head off of the beast and the rest dies soon thereafter. If he was the one organizing everything and the only one with the skills and knowledge to pull it off, maybe the insurgency will collapse. Unfortunately, I think the hydra metaphor is more likely. Number two has just become number one. Was that a poo joke?
------------------ Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck '87 GT Auto '88 Ferrario
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07:30 AM
Uaana Member
Posts: 6570 From: Robbinsdale MN US Registered: Dec 1999
I never viewed Zarqawi as a major player but I could be wrong. I just feel he was one guy who more or less geared his attacks toward media sensationalism rather than being a front line general. I suppose this is a great thing but for some reason I suspect this is just more "feel good", "look we are winning the war" hype simply because he was very notorious. I just feel nothing will change except we may not be seeing anymore beheading videos. I guess it's better to be blasted to smitherines by an IED than having ones head cut off. ::shruggs:: Dead is dead as far as I'm concered and his antics never really affected me.
Now if there were a sudden and systematic elimination of "high profile" (or for that matter low profile) players over the next few days I'd feel alot better about the hype. But one guy? mih... I feel this way because I view them (the terrorists) as an amoeba like collective rather than (no pun intended) an organization with a head that can be removed... One thing for sure, time will tell all.
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
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08:19 AM
F-I-E-R-O Member
Posts: 8410 From: Endwell, NY Registered: Jan 2005
Woot Woot! Die biot<h. http://www.ogrish.com has the airstrike vid and a pic of him dead. looks legit to me. Tis could be a turn for the better for the iraqi security forces. Lets hope thier confidence is built up after this.
Woot Woot! Die biot<h. http://www.ogrish.com has the airstrike vid and a pic of him dead. looks legit to me. Tis could be a turn for the better for the iraqi security forces. Lets hope thier confidence is built up after this.
Although I'm curious to look. I can't do to that website.
I've seen too many distrubing pictures of there.
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10:44 AM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
It couldn't have happened to a nicer person. There are only a few people who truly deserve to die and he is one of them. I hope they bury him in pig guts.
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10:45 AM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
It's early.. just waiting on Conn and the rest to jump in like 84 and say this doesn't mean anything.
"lib mantra" There is no good news from Iraq.
"16 provinces, we'll only talk about the 2 that are messed up." And we have a great campaign set up for this year.. "we hate Bush"
good god.. I like having the opposition in just to keep things honest but really guys.. you put Dean in charge?
I know this is a little off track but don't feel like starting another poli thread. Hint/suggestion.. Dean/Gore/Clinton (hillary) annoy-piss off about 70% of the country Run guys like Lieberman and you might have a chance
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11:52 AM
Uaana Member
Posts: 6570 From: Robbinsdale MN US Registered: Dec 1999
One less extreemist eliminated from the gene pool. How can this be a bad thing? Live and let live is my attitude as long as everyone agrees to the rules, this guy didn't want the "and let live" part work for anyone except his side. Score one for our side!
------------------ Ron Freedom isn't Free, it's paid for with the blood and dreams of those that have gone before us. My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.
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11:54 AM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
I say good for us, he was the one who personally beheaded at least one hostage.
The democrats are already saying we should have captured him or met with him to work thinks out......LMAO. The news made sure to show the damage that included a teddy bear and some baby shoes. Rush has already pointed out that they will soon be talking about how we unneedingly murdered little children to get him. No mention about the children he has murdered to make his point (like the schoolbus loads they assassinated last week).
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02:20 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
It's early.. just waiting on Conn and the rest to jump in like 84 and say this doesn't mean anything.
"lib mantra" There is no good news from Iraq.
"16 provinces, we'll only talk about the 2 that are messed up." And we have a great campaign set up for this year.. "we hate Bush"
good god.. I like having the opposition in just to keep things honest but really guys.. you put Dean in charge?
I know this is a little off track but don't feel like starting another poli thread. Hint/suggestion.. Dean/Gore/Clinton (hillary) annoy-piss off about 70% of the country Run guys like Lieberman and you might have a chance
EDIT: Yes I was pissed off that Uuana brought me up in this thread for no reason but to attack me, and I wrote this:
"Shut up you prick. You're a hatemonger and a stupid one at that. You want to neg me for saying the obvious go ahead, but it's still true."
... he was relatively civil after my response; which was harsh, but don't ignore the fact that I was unnecessarily brought up in a thread I wasn't even participating in simply to use me as a punching bag. So enjoy my anger, and neg me all you want.
I just read the news now. I think it's great news, it may even help in the fight against the insurgency. What I wouldn't bet on if I were you though, is that the attacks will stop all together or even decrease noticeably. That man was a true terrorist and he should have been killed a long time ago. But that doesn't change the fact that the civilian population in Iraq is still bombing our soldiers (my friends) every day. It's not Zarqawi and his band of merry maids planting those IED's all over the road.
To think this bombing will kill the insurgency is to think that the insurgency is completely external from Iraq. That's a falsehood. 90% of the insurgency is Iraqi's with no connection to Al Qaeda. It's the police men, the baker, the taxi driver, the army men AND Al Queda. And BTW, so long as Americans are dying every day for a pack of filthy lies, I consider anything good that does happen to be relatively trivial. What is a new Iraqi school next to my neighbors dead son? Nothing as far as I'm concerned.
[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 06-09-2006).]
Where are you getting your news?/info??.. 90+% of the insurgents are non Iraqi.. Same problem there as we have here.. US not controlling the border.
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/08/iraq.zarqawi.amanpour/ "And by and large they believe that the so-called foreign jihadis, the al Qaeda types, were coming from different Arab countries actually only form the small part of the insurgency -- the bulk of the insurgency is Iraqi and that is not where Zarqawi's main power was."
There are also a growing number of disappointed and disillusioned tribesmen from the Sunni triangle, the area that includes the cities of Ramadi and Falluja, where many powerful local tribal sheiks once thought they could work with the invading Americans.
"The first day the American forces entered the province, we went and negotiated with great hopes and expectations due to what we had heard about America and its democracy," says Sheik Zeidan, who controlled 20,000 men. The U.S. military kicked Zeidan out of the country last year and has refused to negotiate with or pay court to many of these tribal leaders.
Then there are the foreign fighters, most notably Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
How many foreign fighters are in Iraq? Surprisingly few, numbering perhaps 500 to 1,500. They carry out the most spectacular and bloody attacks, including the suicide missions that have, at times, killed more than a 100 people in a single day and the beheadings, such as that of American Nicholas Berg.
http://www.answers.com/topic/iraqi-insurgency "A great deal of attention has been focused on how much success the guerrillas have had in consolidating support among the Iraqi population. It appears the Iraqi insurgency retains a degree of popular support in the "Sunni triangle," especially in cities like Fallujah. The tribal culture of the area and its concepts of honor, the prestige many received from the former regime, and civilian casualties resulting from intense coalition "counter-insurgency" operations have resulted in the opposition of many Sunni Arabs to the occupation.
Polls indicate that the greatest support for the insurgency is in al-Anbar province, a vast area extending from the Syrian border to the western outskirts of Baghdad. This is attributed to a number of reasons, including a lack of opportunities for members of the old regime, lack of employment, tribal customs, suspicion of outsiders, and the religious conservatism of the area. Coalition "counter-insurgency" operations have suffered heavy casualties in the province.
Some observers, such as political scientist Wamidh Nadhmi, believe that the major division in Iraq is not along ethnic and religious divisions nor between the general population and violent groups, but between those who collaborate with the foreign occupation and those who resist it" Also the top commander in Iraq has said the same thing. The best information so far that I've seen comes from PBS Frontline, and DiscoveryTimes Channel's "To War" documentary following the deployment of a number of troops from small towns. Not to mention what I hear from my friends.
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03:38 PM
RACE Member
Posts: 4845 From: Des Moines IA Registered: Dec 2002
Maybe we should tell them that they ran out of virgins in the afterlife and only overweight women with heavy facial hair are left for them? BUT then we would have another issue.. F-I-E-R-O would be jealous of them
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04:46 PM
aceman Member
Posts: 4899 From: Brooklyn Center, MN Registered: Feb 2003
Shut up you prick. You're a hatemonger and stupid one at that. You want to neg me for saying the obvious go ahead, but it's still true.
I just read the news now. I think it's great news, it may even help in the fight against the insurgency. What I wouldn't bet on if I were you though, is that the attacks will stop all together or even decrease noticeably. That man was a true terrorist and he should have been killed a long time ago. But that doesn't change the fact that the civilian population in Iraq is still bombing our soldiers (my friends) every day. It's not Zarquawi and his band of merry maids planting those IDE's all over the road.
To think this bombing will kill the insurgency is to think that the insurgency is completely external from Iraq. That's a falsehood. 90% of the insurgency is Iraqi's with no connection to Al Queda. It's the police men, the baker, the taxi driver, the army men AND Al Queda. And BTW, so long as Americans are dying every day for a pack of filthy lies, I consider anything good that does happen to be relatively trivial. What is a new Iraqi school next to my neighbors dead son? Nothing as far as I'm concerned.
HUH????????? PASS THE CRACK PIPE!!!!
Conn, my balls sweat over there for 13 months. I think I know the truth of the matters better than 90% of this forum. You are terribly mistaken. Most of those insurgents are foreigners blackmailing and threatening the Iraqis to plant their bombs and do their dirty work.
You'd do it too if an insurgent from a foreign country said....."Plant this IED and I'll give you $50. Don't lant it and I'll kill your family."
Originally posted by aceman: HUH????????? PASS THE CRACK PIPE!!!!
Conn, my balls sweat over there for 13 months. I think I know the truth of the matters better than 90% of this forum. You are terribly mistaken. Most of those insurgents are foreigners blackmailing and threatening the Iraqis to plant their bombs and do their dirty work.
You'd do it too if an insurgent from a foreign country said....."Plant this IED and I'll give you $50. Don't lant it and I'll kill your family."
I believe it, but I also believe many of the Iraqi's themselves are doing the blackmailing, kidnapping, killing and terrorizing. I know there are foreigners there, but the facts speak for themselves. Look at the people killed, most of them are Iraqi. Where are all the dead foreigners and why has the military said that the insurgency is mostly homegrown with foreigners using it to their benefit?
Are you really saying that the hundreds of IEDs every week are all the result of Al Qaeda bribing and blackmailing Iraqi's?
What happened to the tens of thousands of Iraqi army and police that we disbanded when we took over? Where are they?
They are fighting us in civilian clothes, that's where they are.
I respect you and the fact that you served in Iraq, but one man's opinion that has a stake in the conflict directly isn't going to change my opinion that took 3 years of accumulating information.
I'm just saying, the "Al Queda is responsible for the insurgency" argument is bunk. They are certainly a part of it. But from what I can tell it's a limited part, and one that's been specifically used as propaganda from the pentagon to help with public and military personell support.
BTW what was your position over there? From what I understand the officers by and large are support the war and the grunts mostly just want to come home. Especially the guys looking for IED's and those constantly moviing through convoys.
[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 06-08-2006).]
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05:22 PM
88 Formula Member
Posts: 608 From: Baden, PA USA Registered: Aug 2003
I just want to reiterate my case here because I think maybe some of you haven't been watching as closely as I have. The commanders in Iraq actually admit that the insurgency is nearly all homegrown. I think Zarqawi's death is wonderful news, but I just want to remind you all not to fall into the spin trap. This will not change the situation.
Just hear me out.
This story broke last year sometime. This was the first real acknowledgment that the insurgency is actually NOT created by and made up of foreigners or Al Queda. There is no doubt whatsoever that Al Qaeda and foreigners are indeed operating in Iraq however. Sometimes with the Iraqi's and sometimes without.
"US Army admits Iraqis outnumber foreign fighters as its main enemy By Toby Harnden in Ramadi (Filed: 04/12/2005) Iraqis, rather than foreign fighters, now form the vast majority of the insurgents who are waging a ferocious guerrilla war against United States forces in Sunni western Iraq, American commanders have revealed.
Their conclusion, disclosed to the Sunday Telegraph in interviews over 10 days in battle-torn Anbar province, contradicts the White House message that outsiders are the principal enemy in Iraq.
Of 1,300 suspected insurgents arrested over the past five months in and around Ramadi, none has been a foreigner. Col John Gronski, senior officer in the town, Anbar's provincial capital, said that almost all insurgent fighting there was by Iraqis. Foreigners provided only money and logistical support.
"The foreign fighters are staying north of the [Euphrates] river, training and advising, like the Soviets were doing in Vietnam," he said.
Although there are tensions between Iraqi insurgents and foreigners from the group al-Qaeda in Iraq, led by the Jordanian zealot Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, there are also alliances of convenience."
So it's easy to see why so many people think the insurgency is an Al Queda run operation. Believe it or not there is also mounting evidence of a Pentagon funded program that has been actively magnifying the Al Queda/Zarquawi presence within the insurgency to help keep public support. You see, if the public believed that local Iraqi's were fighting our troops, then public support would wane because it makes it look as if our presence isn't wanted. And that's not good for winning an unpopular war.
[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 06-08-2006).]
There are only a few people who truly deserve to die and he is one of them. I hope they bury him in pig guts.
