Originally posted by Wichita: He would ge a dose of reality! China is become a capitialist country faster than the rest of the world. Hong Kong has been rated as the number 1 capitialist region of many years straight. I've been to Hong Kong, and it is amazing there. Of all the cities in the world, Hong Kong is my favorite. It is such a great place and capitalisim is the best.
Yes, China is embracing capitalism. They are too smart not to. Anyone with a brain knows that it works.
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China is following and you will see a powerhouse in commerece and business there in the coming years. China has ceased being a Communist country back in the 70's. People say they are Communist, but they are just a one party government and thats it. They have elections, they have a President that has term limits, and a parlimentary system. Granted! Your average common person is not allowed to vote, but thats a good thing.
They are still very proud of their communist goverment. If the average person does not have a vote, that is a not a good thing. They have a communist government, and an economy that is in transition to some degree of capitalism. They are still communist enough.
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01:51 PM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20707 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
They are still very proud of their communist goverment. If the average person does not have a vote, that is a not a good thing. They have a communist government, and an economy that is in transition to some degree of capitalism. They are still communist enough.
But I believe that everybody in American shouldn't be allowed to vote. There are too many stupid people voting in this country. People have no idea who their representative or Sentators are, let alone state and local elected officals. There are people who have no idea about American government, yet vote.
I say bring back a test to be allowed to vote. Like the naturalization test that people take to become citizens, I see why not that a born american shouldn't have to take the same test to be able to get a voter registration card.
Oh! I forgot, the Democrats want the stupid people to vote, because they vote for them. They want felons, illegal immigrants, and even 14 year olds to vote.
That's because, as usual, you let your blind ideology rule your reason. Your loss.
John Stricker
Blind ideology? WalMart is the ultimate capitalistic company, they are all about free and open markets and global trading. They are excercising their God-given rights to buy, at the lowest price possible, the merchandise they sell here. The companies they compete (there's that word again!) are free to do the same thing. It's not my fault that the smaller companies can't compete. Capitalism is all about competition, open, free, and unfettered by ridiculous government rules and interference. Are you saying that you're against competition? I though competition was the American way?
Now you've got me confused as to what you actually do believe, one way or the other.
Man, you just LIVE for making statements and comparisons like that, don't you?
If you're so down on capitalism, why don't you move to China? They'd LOVE you there. You wouldn't have to put up with all this messy capitalist stuff.
China has more capitalistic and competitive spirit than the US does. Their GDP went up 9.4% just in 1Q05, as compared to our GDP growth of 3.5% for the same period. It looks like I'd have a better chance of actually bettering my lot there than here. However, I like my country so I'll sacrifice that additional opportunity to stay here.
China has more capitalistic and competitive spirit than the US does. Their GDP went up 9.4% just in 1Q05, as compared to our GDP growth of 3.5% for the same period. It looks like I'd have a better chance of actually bettering my lot there than here. However, I like my country so I'll sacrifice that additional opportunity to stay here.
The US is a socialist country! There is no doubt about that. People always say that the US is such a great capitalist country, and it is, but it is a very socialized country with government sponsers and subsidized businesses and industry. The welfare state we live in is the envy of many socialized countries.
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02:53 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
So it's free, fair and open competition for WalMart to get a tax abatement for 10 years from property taxes while mom and pop don't get that? It's free, fair, and open competition for WalMart to get choice real estate locations after local governments have exercised eminent domain and taken property that private individuals didn't want to sell? It's free, fair, and open competition to have so much power over a given market that you can dictate price (look up RICO, price fixing, and racketeering)?
Don't give me that crap, I know better.
Competition, fair and WITHOUT GOVERNMENT HELP OR INTERVENTION is the American way. Bullying and using political cronies to have an unfair advantage is not. I thought you were the one that was so against these kinds of tactics, Jazzman, or is it only when they support your agenda?
John Stricker
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Originally posted by JazzMan:
Blind ideology? WalMart is the ultimate capitalistic company, they are all about free and open markets and global trading. They are excercising their God-given rights to buy, at the lowest price possible, the merchandise they sell here. The companies they compete (there's that word again!) are free to do the same thing. It's not my fault that the smaller companies can't compete. Capitalism is all about competition, open, free, and unfettered by ridiculous government rules and interference. Are you saying that you're against competition? I though competition was the American way?
Now you've got me confused as to what you actually do believe, one way or the other.
JazzMan
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03:16 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
While China has almost 4.5 times as many people than the US their GDP is still just 60% of ours. If their GDP grows at 9% ours only needs to grow at about 5% to maintain that ratio. It's easy to have massive growth when you start at the bottom, it's to be expected. It's much harder when you're already the largest economic market in the world.
I'm not minimizing what China is doing, they aaare doing remarkable things, but they have a long ways to go. I'd also say that anyone that is sitting back saying "oh, China will dominate everything in the next 10 years" hop into the old time machine and go back to the late 70's/early 80's when they were saying "Oh, Japan will dominate everything in the next 10 years".
Same song, different generation.
John Stricker
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Originally posted by JazzMan:
China has more capitalistic and competitive spirit than the US does. Their GDP went up 9.4% just in 1Q05, as compared to our GDP growth of 3.5% for the same period. It looks like I'd have a better chance of actually bettering my lot there than here. However, I like my country so I'll sacrifice that additional opportunity to stay here.
So it's free, fair and open competition for WalMart to get a tax abatement for 10 years from property taxes while mom and pop don't get that?
Who voted those local leaders in? Heck, GWB talked my city into buying the Rangers a shiney new stadium. Yes, that GWB. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, eh? So yes, if cities want to compete for a WalMart then they need to be competitive. If that's not what the people wanted then they need to vote in different leadership. Preferrably a leadership more interested in the long term quality of our society instead of the short term buck.
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Originally posted by jstricker: It's free, fair, and open competition for WalMart to get choice real estate locations after local governments have exercised eminent domain and taken property that private individuals didn't want to sell?
Again, government is elected by the people. If the people don't want the government using imminent domain, then the people need to vote for somebody different.
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Originally posted by jstricker: It's free, fair, and open competition to have so much power over a given market that you can dictate price (look up RICO, price fixing, and racketeering)?
Trying to limit competition and business growth and success for social reasons is socialism and anti-capitalistic. If you don't like it, you need to vote for leadership that is less capitalistic and more socialistic.
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Originally posted by jstricker: Don't give me that crap, I know better.
Competition, fair and WITHOUT GOVERNMENT HELP OR INTERVENTION is the American way. Bullying and using political cronies to have an unfair advantage is not. I thought you were the one that was so against these kinds of tactics, Jazzman, or is it only when they support your agenda?
I never said I was for or against tactics. I've always been on the side of social responsibility and on the side of progressive taxation.
Again, if you don't like what WalMart is doing, which is true unfettered capitalism, then you need to vote for a leadership change.
After all, you get what you vote for.
JazzMan
[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 06-12-2005).]
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03:42 PM
dezie36 Member
Posts: 2501 From: Moved to Okemos, Mi, USA Registered: Feb 2005
I didnt get what I voted for... I got what the rednecks voted for.
I voted against Bush and his cronies, but the majority voted for him and got what they voted for. It's just LMFAO funny when I hear Republicans complaining about what they voted for, LOL!
JazzMan
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04:40 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 38934 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
It amazes me that you can turn something like corrupt business practices by one company into a Republican caused fault. Get real. The County commissions I'm talking about are either Democratic controlled or split pretty much 50/50. This is not a Federal issue, Jazzman. The US Government is not here to wipe your butt every time you think you need it.
FWIW.........
All of the actions I talked about took place in counties adjoining mine. I could vote neither for, or against, any of the actions the county commissions and city councils took because I'm not in their area. I do vote with my pocketbook.........I don't shop at WalMart.
WalMart has had it's day, IMHO it's on the decline. Sales are down and their growth is slowing rapidly. People ARE coming to the conclusion that having a monolitithic entity controlling what they buy and how much they pay is not a good thing and it's beginning to show. Don't tell me that WalMart is "just too big" either. GM is "too big", and they're struggling and having to redesign their sales model. IBM used to be the dominate player in PC's, now they're an also ran. Everyone has their day and for WalMart, I think that day is about past.
Jazzman's "progressive taxation" = Tax the bastidges that have more then me until they have the same or less than me. It's only fair.
John Stricker
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Originally posted by JazzMan:
I never said I was for or against tactics. I've always been on the side of social responsibility and on the side of progressive taxation.
Again, if you don't like what WalMart is doing, which is true unfettered capitalism, then you need to vote for a leadership change.
After all, you get what you vote for.
JazzMan
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05:09 PM
NEPTUNE Member
Posts: 10199 From: Ticlaw FL, and some other places. Registered: Aug 2001
I don't see how a thread that started out "dumber than GWB" morphed into "bash Wal Mart" but it happens here all the time. I'm with John Striker on this one. Wal Mart is BAD for the USA and I vote with my dollars. They (and I) go elsewhere. For more info on SOME of the problems with the megaretailer, go to : http://www.aflcio.org/corporateamerica/walmart/
BTW, GWB may be dishonest, greedy and stubborn, but he is anything but dumb.
[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 06-12-2005).]
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05:23 PM
Wolfhound Member
Posts: 5317 From: Opelika , Alabama, USA Registered: Oct 1999
Stricker, just for the record I happen to think that the WalMartization of this country is a bad thing. I've been trying to point out that the things that WalMart represents, the pinnacle of free-market capitalism run amok, are the very things that Bush and all his republicans espouse as being principles in running things in this country. I happen to disagree, but every time I make my thoughts heard I get people like fierobear and all the other Republicans calling me communist, socialist, etc. I happen to think that WalMart needs to pay for the costs to the taxpayers for the healthcare costs of all those uninsured WalMart employees. One way that WM competes is to work employees part time for very low wages and no benefits. This has the effect of depressing the wages of everyone in the area, sort of like what happens when you overpump the local Ogolala aquifer.
I also am seriously concerned by the fact that WM is facilitating China's hold on our economy in the name of free trade and free market capitalism. You voted for Bush, Bush and your fellow Republicans support the way WM does things, and WM epitomizes all of the principles of Bush's free market economic policies.
So, you voted for this, deal with it.
JazzMan
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08:37 PM
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System Bot
dezie36 Member
Posts: 2501 From: Moved to Okemos, Mi, USA Registered: Feb 2005
But Jazzman I thought you had to either love Bush and all of his policies or you were a commie... what you are saying makes it seem like you have an opinion on many things... is this true?
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08:48 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 38934 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
Originally posted by JazzMan:I happen to disagree, but every time I make my thoughts heard I get people like fierobear and all the other Republicans calling me communist, socialist, etc.JazzMan
As long as my name has been thrown out here, I should clarify. I don't completely disagree with you on the Walmart situation. I don't think they are a good thing for small communities. In bigger cities, I don't think it makes any difference. Many communites are fighting back by refusing their entry. There are a few local cities here that have made efforts to stop them from coming into town. That seems the best way for a community to decide whether Walmart is a positive or negative on the community.
My issue with you is not that I think you're a commie and/or socialist because you oppose Walmart. You earn that moniker by your "tax the rich ad infinitum" stance, your lumping of George Bush and Republicans into anything you don't like, and your general attitude toward Republicans, companies and capitalism.
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01:27 AM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
Stricker, just for the record I happen to think that the WalMartization of this country is a bad thing. I've been trying to point out that the things that WalMart represents, the pinnacle of free-market capitalism run amok, are the very things that Bush and all his republicans espouse as being principles in running things in this country.
I wasn't aware that the Bush adminnistration had taken a position on WalMart one way or the other. Perhaps you can provide a link to this?
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Originally posted by JazzMan: I happen to disagree, but every time I make my thoughts heard I get people like fierobear and all the other Republicans calling me communist, socialist, etc.
Still have yourself hanging on that old wooden cross I see.
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Originally posted by JazzMan:I happen to think that WalMart needs to pay for the costs to the taxpayers for the healthcare costs of all those uninsured WalMart employees.
Why?
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Originally posted by JazzMan:One way that WM competes is to work employees part time for very low wages and no benefits. This has the effect of depressing the wages of everyone in the area, sort of like what happens when you overpump the local Ogolala aquifer.
It's Ogallala aquifer and I don't irrigate a single acre of my ground, not even the garden.
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Originally posted by JazzMan:
I also am seriously concerned by the fact that WM is facilitating China's hold on our economy in the name of free trade and free market capitalism. You voted for Bush, Bush and your fellow Republicans support the way WM does things, and WM epitomizes all of the principles of Bush's free market economic policies.
And what "hold" would that be, other than the one you have invented in your mind?
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Originally posted by JazzMan: So, you voted for this, deal with it.
JazzMan
No, I voted for a President that reduced the tax burden on over 90% of the TAXPAYERS of this country and that is prosecuting a war that I believe in. He also shares my views on abortion and other social issues that I feel strongly about. And I can live with, and deal with that just fine.
You do know, of course, that WalMart came from the home state of William Jefferson Clinton, actually really grew into the power it is while he was first governor and then President, and did so in a state rife with corruption and political hacks, right? So how does the situation with WalMart now relate to President Bush again?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming Clinton for WalMart's rise to dominance in the marketplace, in fact I don't think he had anything to do with it, but he was certainly in a position first as governor then as President to *DO* something about it and did nothing, so how is this the Republican's fault again?
Of course, you don't have to take responsibility for THAT do you, after all, you never gave enough of a crap to even VOTE before the last election cycle.
John Stricker
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02:01 AM
Steve Normington Member
Posts: 7663 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Apr 2001
