quote Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: No one is threatening you with anything...

You mean other than eternal damnation because they don't believe exactly as you do?

quote its ok for you and everyone else to talk about what you believe, whats important to you, but when a christian on this forum talks about their view of the world they get attacked, mocked, insulted, ridiculed....

"Their view of the world" is one thing. But making a blanket statement that anyone who happens to be of a different faith (which is what it ultimately comes down to, right?) is going to burn in hell, is just a little extreme. Don't you think?
It's the same kind of narrow minded mentality that caused a bunch of Saudis to fly planes into a couple of buildings a few years ago. Perhaps you heard about it. They were just as convinced that they were correct as you are.
(Yes. I'm comparing you to a terrorist. Some people consider persons of your convictions to be just as dangerous. How does that make you feel?)

I just want to know who decided that you have the right to pass judgement on me, or any other human being walking this earth? Last I heard, that was God's job, unless you have raised yourself to that level, and would presume to speak for Him.

I stand by my statement. The intolerance of many Christians is why you keep getting insulted. I'm a Christian, and I dare you to tell me otherwise. My faith is between myself and God, and I'll be the first to step up and tell you its none of your damned business.
Go do what you do. Be happy in your faith. And quit trying to force it down the throats of others.

On a side note, I've seen your responses to some other topics, over the years. You seem to be "all around" intolerant of (and quite rude to) anyone who doesn't agree with you, so I suppose your attitude on this subject shouldn't surprise me.

quote Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: ...I shook the dust off my feet and washed my hands of the whole lot of you a long time ago.

Funny... If that's the case, what are you still doing here? I thought you sold your Fiero a long time ago.
Do us a favor and go away. Take Mustang Boi with you.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Funny... If that's the case, what are you still doing here? I thought you sold your Fiero a long time ago. Do us a favor and go away. Take Mustang Boy with you.

Really could not have said it better myself.

I 2nd that motion.

oddly enough, i still have both ken and 1985 rated "neutral".

Well I am going to gracefully bow out of this thread now. I really wasn't trying to judge people, with threats of hellfire. However, I did not make the rules, God made the rules. And God said that unless you believe in Jesus your going to Hell, then that pretty much sums up the rules.

Guten Tag!!!

Oh, btw, I am a member of the stangnet forum's to whomever it was above that mentioned it. I am GM Dude

www.stangnet.com

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"There's a difference between people who say they're "Religious," (i.e.: Hindus, Buddhists, Islamists, etc., etc.,) and the people who have Accepted Christ into their hearts, the prior will still burn in Hell along with Atheists, Agnostics, etc. Reject Religion, Accept Christ. Also please remember, just because you say your a "Christian" does not give you a golden pass into heaven. You gotta get down on your knees and ask for forgiveness, because either way once your dead, and your talking to Jesus face to face, the only thing you will hear from his mouth is the words "I did not know you, depart from me, you who works inequity." Then thats it, darkness, suffering, burning, no one to talk to, nor no one that you can hear, seperated from God for an eternity that unfortunately for your sake, does not end. That's why I have accepted Christ, and the aforementioned statement was the reason why Christ died for us."

-1985FieroGT

quote Originally posted by 1985FieroGT: Well I am going to gracefully bow out of this thread now. I really wasn't trying to judge people, with threats of hellfire. However, I did not make the rules, God made the rules. And God said that unless you believe in Jesus your going to Hell, then that pretty much sums up the rules. Guten Tag!!! Oh, btw, I am a member of the stangnet forum's to whomever it was above that mentioned it. I am GM Dude www.stangnet.com

Funny, doesn't sound like something a divine creature would say.

quote Originally posted by 1985FieroGT: Well I am going to gracefully bow out of this thread now. I really wasn't trying to judge people, with threats of hellfire. However, I did not make the rules, God made the rules. And God said that unless you believe in Jesus your going to Hell, then that pretty much sums up the rules. Guten Tag!!! Oh, btw, I am a member of the stangnet forum's to whomever it was above that mentioned it. I am GM Dude www.stangnet.com

I love the arguement of "reject religon, accept christ... it's a relationship, not a religon" But like all the religons it's a variant on, it also has a rule. In this case not deeds except ONE... accept christ as your savior. And when they get to their judgement day and G-d says "Remember I said, "You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image." Yet you think the Jewish God felt the need to take human form... strangely enough it was the Jews that rejected Jesus... maybe because they could read and knew he was a false messiah and not a god. Bet that would mess your day up worse than dying... almost as bad as any Jew who accepted Christ.

If they are right and christianity is wrong (not saying either is right) y'all in for a heap of trouble. At least Judaism doesn't say that non jews can't go to heaven or whatever their reward is.

What if the Norse are right! Not many here going to Valhalla... I doubt your acceptance of Christ will impress Thor much.

I suspect that we return to dust as the bible says... returning to the universe to be recycled as part of everything else just as has been happening since time began. The soul is a made up device of religon and religous beliefs... we are, then we aren't. I don't believe my 'being' exists once the hardware has been destroyed. The only continuation we have is in the relationships we leave, children/family/friends/contributions to society (good or bad). The ego/fear involved in believing that your the only ones that will be rewarded and that everyone else will burn in hell because 99+% of the world is wrong in a belief is stunning. The same people that claim 'this is a christian nation' are also claiming all the other variations of christianity are also going to burn because they are religons... the lutherans, baptists, protestants, catholics, seventh day adventists, mormons, etc etc etc... all wrong (unless your sect is one of the above, then take that one out).

The copout of a religon... can't do anything to save yourself except accepting christ. Deeds don't count, how you live your life doesn't count, you can be a complete bastard, lying, thieving, murdering, raping, whatever... yet get out the words and mean them before your last breath and all the good people burn and you spend eternity in heaven. Yeah... that makes sense.

My that was a bit of a rant.

And no... I don't rate people negatively because of what I may believe to be moronic beliefs. I try to understand the basis for those beliefs and sometimes how they got so twisted. Usually history answers those questions and it's all about people seeking power over others.

quote Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: No one is threatening you with anything... >>>>Originally posted by Raydar: You mean other than eternal damnation because they don't believe exactly as you do?

you have the mental capacity of a snail. No christian has EVER threaten you with eternal damnation because WE dont have the power to judge you, or condemn you to anything. We simply say 'we have evaluted the situation and this is the way we see it. If I tell you that driving your car with no oil in the engine will destroy it, I am not THREATENING you with anything - Im not going to sneak into your garage and destroy your engine if you dont listen to me - Im only telling you, warning you - of the concequences of the path you are on. you dont seem to be capible of understanding the difference.

quote "Their view of the world" is one thing. But making a blanket statement that anyone who happens to be of a different faith (which is what it ultimately comes down to, right?) is going to burn in hell, is just a little extreme. Don't you think?

the truth IS extreem. Reality is extreem. There is not barganing with the laws of physics, is there? Force = mass times acelleration, always! Gee that seems a little extreem, doesnt it? what kind of loving God would allow such a law of physics to exist? you mean if I jump out a ten story onto concrete I will ALWAYS die? I cant talk my way out of it? That seems pretty narrow minded. What if I dont believe in gravity, I wont die then because gravity doenst exist.

over a billion people on this planet beleive that Jesus is who He said he was. You are willing to dismiss the testimony of a BILLION people, so you can continue to live your lifestyle with out feeling guilt or the need to do whats right. Writing off a billion people as stupid, ignorant and foolish, isnt THAT a little extreem and narrow minded?

quote It's the same kind of narrow minded mentality that caused a bunch of Saudis to fly planes into a couple of buildings a few years ago. Perhaps you heard about it. They were just as convinced that they were correct as you are. (Yes. I'm comparing you to a terrorist. Some people consider persons of your convictions to be just as dangerous. How does that make you feel?)

Here you go again. What is the IQ of a snail, 3? You compair christians to violent murders who belive in something that is not true, that can be easily SHOWN to be not true (simply by studying the origins of the Islam religion)? What does one have to do with the other? your real problem is human nature. Everyone believes in something. People murder other people. Its been going on since the beginning of humanity. For you to somehow link contemporary christians in with murderers and terrorist on the basis that they 'believe something' that you cant grasp, is the most childish agrument Ive ever heard.

quote I just want to know who decided that you have the right to pass judgement on me, or any other human being walking this earth? Last I heard, that was God's job, unless you have raised yourself to that level, and would presume to speak for Him.

again, since you REALLY dont understand this, christians dont have the authority or the power to pass judgement on you or anyone else. We were commanded to go throughout the world and TELL everyone 'this is the way it is - this is the way the Creator of the Universe is dealing with all of humanity". We dont sit in backrooms of church building with a list and say 'Ok, we'll send this guy to hell, we'll send this guy to heaven...."

and again, you dont seem to have the mental capicity to understand the difference. Someone yells at you "Hey, get off the train track, Amtrak is coming at 70mph!" and your response is "Hey, quite judgeing me!' ?!

?!

quote I stand by my statement. The intolerance of many Christians is why you keep getting insulted. I'm a Christian, and I dare you to tell me otherwise. My faith is between myself and God, and I'll be the first to step up and tell you its none of your damned business. Go do what you do. Be happy in your faith. And quit trying to force it down the throats of others.

I dont have to tell you how God commanded us to interact with the rest of the world. Jesus said nothing about being tolerant of those with mistaken and/or false religious beliefs - just the opposite - He told us to proclaim the truth, even if it cost us our lives

or jobs

our friends

our familys

our money

but thats not what you want? is it. You want to feel like you have a secret relationship with God, that is 'nobodys business' but yours, and you can chum around with everyone, offend no body, and not make waves.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Funny... If that's the case, what are you still doing here? I thought you sold your Fiero a long time ago. Do us a favor and go away.

This is your verson of tolerance? This is your proclamation of your CHRISTIAN tolerance?! "I dont like you so why dont you go away?"

ok fine. Ive made my position clear. I am under no obligation to hang around where Im hated and loathed.

you can have the whole place to yourself - I have better things to do with my time.

<-7208 my last post on PFF. Now you can sit here and figure out if by driving me away you won

or lost

[This message has been edited by Ken Wittlief (edited 02-15-2005).]

Ken, what is your problem with people not likeing SAINT valentines day? Does it bother you that there are different people in the world who don't share your ideas, customs and god?

Why don't you and ka4nkf get together for a strategy lunch and come up with some better ideas on how to pull the wool with a little more finess.

<insert cricket chirps here>

Hey Ken, Better yet, why not take a page from president Dumbia's book and bomb the fuk out of everyone who does not "conform" to your idea of how to behave and worship. Kill all them henotheistic, agnostic bastards and when they protest by smashing windows and burning cards we will call them terrorists.

Edit:
Can't spell today... not like it really matters because I can't spell anewaye

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 02-15-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: ...ok fine. Ive made my position clear. I am under no obligation to hang around where Im hated and loathed. you can have the whole place to yourself - I have better things to do with my time. <-7208 my last post on PFF.

quote Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: let her wipe tables [This message has been edited by Ken Wittlief (edited 02-19-2005).]

Knew you'd be back.